123 blocks and other stuff

[Woodlee]

I have a few sets of 123 blocks (cheap ones) ,I use them frequently on set up and work holding on the mill and on the lathe face plate .
I bought a set from Shars just recently ,the ones that come in the plastic case ,with 5 3/8 x 16 socket cap bolts .
I was under the impression that they could be bolted
together to make a quick angle block or similar .
Imagine my surprise when I received them to find that the untapped holes don't allow the bolts to pass through.
A few enquiries and a bit of reading different metal forums ,I came to the conclusion that not all 123 blocks are equal ,some have clearance holes and some don't ,it's a bit of a lottery as to what you get .As a lot of the Starrett stuff is made in China now I guess even thiers don't have the clearance holes either.
So I came up with a simple clamp to hold them together so they can be used as an angle block .The clamp comes apart for easy storage . The next step is to make some longer bars with more anchor holes for other clamping configurations.
The long rod is just a temporary thing , an injector push rod from an NT 855 Cummins diesel ,they are good for many uses.

And a couple of pics of my newly acquired rotary table and a vice I made around 30 years ago .It was never really finished ,it was supposed to be case hardened and ground ,but I left that job and it never got done.
Still very useful for small machining jobs .

Kev.

[Dave J]

Nice clamp idea Kev.:2tsup:
I to have read about the complaints of the holes not being of any use. What about using some helicoils on the threaded holes so a smaller bolt can be used to fit through the holes?

Dave

[Woodlee]

Well I suppose you could but the helicoils probably wont fit the 3/8 x 16 threads , the next thread down from 3/8" UNC is 5/16 and it's 18tpi .
I bought a set of Artu drills from a guy on Ebay the 10mm may drill the blocks and make the holes clearance for the bolts to pass through .
Trouble is post has been held up by the Easter break , I'm waiting on heap of stuff from the States as well as from here.
Kev.

[Dave J]

I wonder if one of those cheaper type carbide tipped boring bar would do it. It could be held in a collet and ground to cut a 10mm hole.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Hi Kev,
I can't really see my 1,2,3 blocks properly ATM as they are in use, but I dont think they have threaded holes in the end rows. Couldn't you use threaded rod or a 4 1/2" bolt through both blocks?

Is the 0 ring on your table lockable? I think the one on mine has been modded as it doesnt have the pin and more just a grub screw. Which turned out to be a good thing as I stood the table up during part of the machine on the last job and is would have lost 0 if it wasnt locked.

Is that vice two speed?

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

Where's the O ring?

[Stustoys]

Sorry BT by 0 ring I mean zero. The ring that has the zero on it (for the graduations on the hand wheel)rotates, I assume to make life a little easier between vertical and horizontal.
Stuart

[Woodlee]

Stuart,
The main hand wheel has a grub screw which Im going to replace with a brass thumb screw rather than fish for an allen key every time I want to adjust it.I did the same for the mill ,it's a PIA fiddling with allen keys.
The short lever adjusts the back lash and disengages the worm drive for manual turning of the table .
I'm sure it locks ,will have to have a closer look , haven't had a chance to play with it very much .Made some t nuts for it the other day .I'm quite impressed with the quality of it for the price , table and mounting surfaces all ground finish and a nice fitting MT in the center.Damn thing is heavy to move around .
I will have to extend the mounting holes in the vertical foot 1/2 " in toward the center of the foot as my table slot centres are 5" centres and don't quite line up with the slotted mounting holes in the base , or use finger clamps hold it down .
Mean to get a large chuck later ,front through mount if possible ,and an mt3 to Myford thread for the smaller chucks I have .

Yes a two speed vice ,you can use the brass threaded collar to move the jaw in faster then use the main spindle to tighten .

None of my 3 sets of 123 blocks have threaded holes in the ends or the edges , a 5/16 threaded rod fits through ok .
I'm too fussy some times I guess I like to make stuff that looks the part .
But how about this , I have a pair of 246 blocks from the same supplier , they are threaded 5/8 UNC , and the untapped holes are clearance holes for 5/8 bolts so they can be bolted together ,but only tapped holes in the face ,none on the ends or the edges.
Kev.

[eskimo]

the 123 blocks I recieved from CDCO have 5 threaded holes ( out of all of them) in each face but none on the sides

[RayG]

Apologies for raising an old thread..

I'm looking for 123 blocks (and 246) that can be bolted together to form angle plates, but the ones that arrived today from
Ultra Precision 123 Block 1-2-3 Blocks Set Plastic Case (eBay item 370516586690 end time 10-Jun-11 23:34:24 AEST) : Business Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370516586690&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)

They are tapped on the faces, but not the ends, and untapped holes won't clear the bolts? :no:

Any ideas where to find good 123 blocks?

Regards
Ray

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Apologies for raising an old thread..

I'm looking for 123 blocks (and 246) that can be bolted together to form angle plates, but the ones that arrived today from
Ultra Precision 123 Block 1-2-3 Blocks Set Plastic Case (eBay item 370516586690 end time 10-Jun-11 23:34:24 AEST) : Business Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370516586690&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)

They are tapped on the faces, but not the ends, and untapped holes won't clear the bolts? :no:

Any ideas where to find good 123 blocks?

Regards
Ray

I hear there's a bloke somewhere up your way with a big surface grinder, he could probably make some good ones... :D

[.RC.]

I cut some short pieces of rod that will slip in the holes and cross drilled the rod and tapped the drilled hole to 6mm.... When I need to bolt them together I can easily do it...

[Anorak Bob]

Apologies for raising an old thread..

I'm looking for 123 blocks (and 246) that can be bolted together to form angle plates, but the ones that arrived today from
Ultra Precision 123 Block 1-2-3 Blocks Set Plastic Case (eBay item 370516586690 end time 10-Jun-11 23:34:24 AEST) : Business Industrial (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370516586690&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)

They are tapped on the faces, but not the ends, and untapped holes won't clear the bolts? :no:

Any ideas where to find good 123 blocks?

Regards
Ray

Don't get tricked into thinking these might be any better. A 3/8"UNC bolt will not pass through the non threaded holes in the 2" width of the block. They most probably come from the same industrial province that produces the dirt cheap versions.

RC's cross drilled dowels would render the blocks much more useful. Handy things just the same.

BT

[Bryan]

You could fix two threaded holes together with necked bolts - just turn the thread off near the head. It's inelegant but through-bolting with say 1/4" bolts & nuts should work for any combination of holes. I can see the attraction of drilling them all the same size, from a manufacturing perspective.

[Greg Q]

This feature of 1-2-3 blocks vexes me greatly. It is as though our tool suppliers have all of the insight and sophistication of a Melanesian cargo cult. They commonly manage to misinterpret the features of the tool they copied originally and have no clue as to the use and need of same.

The little tool and cutter grinders they copied still need the rare and expensive Deckel collets. Other machines have obscure B & S #9 tapers for which no tooling is available.

The little 9" lathes that they copied weren't the best design in the world either, and now there are scores of thousands of copies.:doh:

Sag 180 started a thread on PM about Bunnings drills: It turns out that all the world's hardware store drills are suddenly the same: negative clearance on the tips, so they don't work.

I'm glad that I started to collect tools decades ago.:~