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Cliff Rogers
14th December 2004, 09:10 PM
G'day.

Can any one recommend or give me any hints about video systems for demonstrating woodturning.

I'm a techo so I understand electronics & I can hook up a VCR, DVD, TV etc, (I can even set the clock on a VCR :D ) but I know bug'rall about video cameras.

Can anyone help?

PaulS
14th December 2004, 10:12 PM
Cliff,
Most video cameras these days are miniDV, which record onto a tape. Using this you can then download from the camera onto your pc, using a firewire cable hooked up to a video capture card.

You edit the stuff on the computer, you can add sound tracks, titles and fancy transitions between scenes. You can then save your work into different formats with different resolutions. You can copy it back onto the miniDV tape and loose no quality.

That is that way I have done it, but i have an old machine (PIII 800) and it only just copes.

I have scene the cameras that record straight onto a DVD, i reckon these would be the go. Cause then you can just take this disk out and pop it straight into your pc and copy and edit the movies etc.

Video editing is memory hungry, you need the ram, and also the harddrive space.

I haven't really said alot about cameras, but i hope this helps.

Paul

bitingmidge
14th December 2004, 10:24 PM
Cliff,

I won't make mention of any particular computer platform here 'cos my bum still hurts from the last time ;) , but there is one well know brand that comes standard with a fairly good amateur video editing suite and a DVD multi media product so you can make an interactive DVD (go back to last chapter and that sort of thing) and burning stuff to match.

In terms of producing feature movies it's basic stuff, but one of my kid's uses it on a cheap machine to do rough-cuts before serious commercial editing, and we've used it in the work environment for years producing professional looking results. Perfect for the home handyman I reckon!

Forget just filming without editing...even at the most basic level you will need to do some editing.

Try to find whatever the PC equivalent of iMovie or iDVD is :D :D :D .

Is that sort of what you were looking for by way of an answer??

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

Simon-UK
15th December 2004, 04:23 AM
Cliff,

The previous two replies are perfectly correct but I am not sure answer the question you are asking? Are you intending to publish of the web or just provide a video overview of what is being done at a demonstration for example?

If it is the fromer, then ignore this post.

However, if it is the latter then I may be able to help. I use mini CCD camera every day as part of the 'day job' You can now get colour CCD camera for less than £50 (GBP) which is 20mm dia, 45mm long. This will strap to a tailstock / bed mounded backet very easily and need not get in the way. It will give standard video out signals, so you could feed it into a monitor / PC / VCR etc. The downside, this small size / cheap price they will be fixed focus and with no zoom. However, mounted on the tailstock they will give an excellent view and I think zoom would be unnecessary. Also, if you opt for one with a pin hole style lens then the depth of field is excellent and will not need any focus adjustment, so your demonstrator (or you!) can work away without any interuptions to mess with the camera.

Hope this helps - let me know if you need help with suppliers. I can at very least let you know what is available in Europe so you have a spec to go searching in your neck of the woods!!

Best of luck

Simon

Little Festo
15th December 2004, 10:05 AM
Hello Cliff,

Just looking at my minni DV camera all you need to do is feed the signal from the camera's video out to you TV (or VCR). There should be a video out (analog) that will directly plug into the back of the TV (where the VCR plugs in). You may need to check that the camera has this connection - almost all have. It is probable better not to connect the audio cable to the TV.

You shouldn't have any problems, it's a simple exercise. Check with you local video camera shop if you have problems.

All the Best - Peter

echnidna
15th December 2004, 10:37 AM
Hope you get it right Cliff so you can video the spray painting course at Major Panic's workshop!!!

Cliff Rogers
15th December 2004, 11:56 AM
G'day.

Thanks guys, it's live video that I want, not recording & editing at this stage.

It's for making it easier for a number of people to watch one demonstrator at the same time.

Can anyone recommend a camera(s) for this sort of work?

PaulS
15th December 2004, 12:21 PM
Cliff,
Any video camera can be set up to show live video on a tv. You just use the cable usually supplied to connect the camera to a vcr.

I have a Panasonic miniDV camera, and have been very happy with it. They seem to be about a third of the price that they were when i bought mine 3 years ago.

One thing to watch out for is the zoom. Like still cameras, ignore the digital zoom, you are really interested in what the optical zoom is.

But it may be cheaper to use a ccd camera that simon is talking about...

Paul

JackoH
15th December 2004, 05:16 PM
I've got a,(an) Hitachi video camera which does a great job, not digital. I'll sell it real cheap. 2 years old and hardly used. e-mail me if interested.

RETIRED
15th December 2004, 05:44 PM
Cliff, in most cases for a demo you need 2 cameras if they are fixed.

One slightly back (about 6" from centre line) from the headstock and above so that it shows the action without tools or hands in the way.

The other positioned just off horizontal centre aimed straight and level with the headstock centreline.

I have done demos with a 3rd camera at the back of the headstock showing the back of a bowl from above.

The best set up I have seen is at the Peninsula Woodturners Guild when doing demos there. If some one is from there they may be able to give you a bit more info.

HTH.

journeyman Mick
15th December 2004, 11:00 PM
How about another camera strapped to the side of the demonstrator's head? I know it sounds silly, but then the audience could see it from the turner's perspective. With the size of cameras nowadays I'm sure it's possible. Then you could be a real tech head Cliff! :D

Mick

RETIRED
16th December 2004, 12:17 AM
Or chisel cam? :D :D

vsquizz
16th December 2004, 12:57 AM
Cliff, any good digital camera will have an video out so you can plug it straight into a TV. I have used mine to do fishing rod building demo's and as a web cam.


Cheers

Alastair
16th December 2004, 09:49 AM
Guys

Some of the 'off the wall' ideas are not that impractical.

I skydived for years with a video camera mounted on my helmet. With the "surveillance" type cameras available today this would not be onerous, and would give the turners perspective.
A similar concept would yield the "chiselcam" What better way to demonstrate the basic cuts?

Cliff Rogers
16th December 2004, 01:18 PM
OK, thanks for what we have so far, but...

It still seems that there at least 3 or 4 sorts of camera I could use.

Apart from the Hitachi analogue that Jocko wants to sell,
Can anyone recommend a BRAND of camera(s) for this sort of work?

Alastair
16th December 2004, 04:03 PM
Cliff
I think the brand is not germane to the application. To my knowledge they will all have connection cables to any modern TV's.

Since you basically get what you pay for, I would suggest you make the decision on how much you want to spend.

Features you need, are mostly standard, even on the cheap and basic like my $380 Samsung. Important are a zoom lens, and possibly the ability to handle a backlit scene, as you can't always site the camera in the optimum position for lighting.

BTW I have also seen a very effective demonstration setup, with a large mirror mounted at 45' directly above the lathe.

Cliff Rogers
16th December 2004, 04:28 PM
.. brand is not germane to the application....
...even on the cheap and basic like my $380 Samsung. Important are a zoom lens, and possibly the ability to handle a backlit scene, ...

..seen a very effective demonstration setup, with a large mirror mounted at 45' directly above the lathe....
Thanks for feedback...

I've never owned a video camera & I'm hoping for some recommendations.

Is your $380 Samsung a digital or an analogue & does it have the zoom & ability to handle a backlit scene?

I've seen the angled mirror trick, problem with it is that the demonstrator has to work with his back to the audience or, if he faces the audience with the mirror above him, his bludy great boof head gets in the field of view.
The other problem with the mirror is the chance of flying objects sending a shower of broken glass all over the people below.

Sprog
16th December 2004, 05:01 PM
Get a digital, easy to set up and use.

How about a trip to your local camera shop and tell them your needs, I am sure they will be willing to advise.

Simon-UK
17th December 2004, 04:48 AM
Cliff,

Try this site:

http://www.watec.net/english/c_top.html

We use these cameras all the time and they are excellent. Note: there are the camera only, no built in recorder as with a domestic camcorder. They are as small as 12mm dia so yes, a skew cam is possible with the aid of a willing demonstrator and a length of electricians tape!:D

Best of luck

Simon.

Cliff Rogers
17th December 2004, 09:22 AM
Now we are getting somewhere.... all I need to do is find a distributor in Oz, the JP site only gives a JP phone number of OS contacts.

echnidna
17th December 2004, 09:44 AM
Cliff there are usually a lot of these small cameras available on Ebay.com.au There are wired and wireless types available in B&W and color. Suggest search for security or spy cameras. There are also cards that will enable up to 4 cameras to operate simultaneuously on on computer
Webcams would probably be quite ok too.

Alastair
17th December 2004, 09:51 AM
Cliff

The Samsung (got from Strathfield, also Hardly Normal) has digital signal processing, but records in analogue mode on 8mm tape. Not significant for you I dont think.

Has backlight and the other common functions. Is also cheep when some clumsy bludger trips over the cord, and knocks the tripod over.

If you can access someone with the knowhow, the minicams below sound interesting though

Cliff Rogers
17th December 2004, 10:08 AM
I found the Oz distributor for this stuff.

http://www.net-sec.com.au/watec.htm

TimberNut
17th December 2004, 11:21 AM
Hi Cliff.

You can try ebay and find pretty much ANY handicam (Sony, JVC, or pretty much any other). All the handicams have component out (white, red and yellow RF connectors (red and white for left and right audio, and yellow for video signal i think it goes). The newer smaller ones have an approximately 7-pin connector on the camera and the cable comes with the camera. it will be round 7-pin (ish) connector on one end and yellow, white and red connectors on the other, that you plug straight into your AV connections either on video or straight into the tv. Obviously you wouldn't need to plug in red and white, unless you want audio as well (sound of woodchips flying perhaps???)

you set the handicam to the record setting, but don't even have to have a tape in. If it is in 'record' mode, it will automatically output the video signal to the RF connections. So no need to press the little red button to start recording (unless you want to record to tape at the same time).

If you are looking for the smaller types like the pinhole ones discussed previously - Jaycar sells them www.jaycar.com.au (http://www.jaycar.com.au). not sure if there are any Jaycar stores up that way, but they are online also.

Simon-UK
17th December 2004, 06:57 PM
Cliff,

This is the indeed the same manufacturer. However, and I appologies if I am teaching granny to suck eggs (does this translate in Oz - if not ignore!!) but the three cameras on the page you have linked to all require a lens to get an image. If you look at the picutre, you can see the thread where the lens screws on and the CCD chip is the small rectange at the back.

I would suggest their range of small cylindrical camera for your application. Try this model:
http://www.watec.net/english/color/wat_240ra.html

There are several lens options, as I said in my earlier text, the pin hole option will give you the greatest depth of field (ie objects in the foreground and background will be in focus). However, one of the other options will give a norrower field of view, hence fill the TV with what you are interested in. My advice would be to have a look at the info on the site, speak to the Oz dealer and if all else fails then drop the manufacturer an email. After all, you should be able to define the distance the camera is from the action and the field of view required fairly easily for you situation.

All the best
Simon.

Richard Casey
18th December 2004, 12:20 AM
Cliffy, you obviously need this set up as no one can see the top of your lathe LOL. Were coming up sometime in Jan to see the Crocs choke your Snakes and pick up a load of Honduras Mahogony I bought off a bloke up there and will try and look you up.
PS its started to rain and lawn mowing gets in the road of woodturning again.

ubeaut
18th December 2004, 01:43 AM
Have a look at this link. http://www.woodchuckers.com/Minicams.htm Jim Carroll just got a couple for use in demo's. They work well and are very unobtrusive.


Cheers - Neil :)

Cliff Rogers
18th December 2004, 12:18 PM
Simon, ta, I had noticed that, I have also banged off an e-mail to the Oz distributor & it's been ignored... DOH.


Richard, :p to you. I'll be down in Cairns somewhere on the weekend 8/9 Jan & hopefully down in Brissy at the OWE on the weekend 15/16 Jan.
I'll be up on the Tablelands the weekends 1/2/3, 22/23, & 29/30 Jan.
I'll be in Cairns working most weekdays. WARNING!!! Cairns it bludy arwfull at present.... we run the A/C to cool it down to 26 degrees, even at night, up here on the tablelands, it has just managed to creep up to 26 degrees, at 11:15 am, it was 19 over night. :D

Neil, Ta, that's the one that has been reviewed in the latest Woodturner & it's is what got me interested in finding something local.
I've just had a quick look & the gear they use looks like the stuff that we can get from Jaycar & Dick Smith.