Campervan do out

[Black Bear]

I was going though the categories to try to find a post suitable to my question, which is:

I have volunteered to do up mates Campervan. It is a 1988 Toyota Ex bus, and is completely empty now.
( it appears) He had used MDF and previous owner even doubled it up in places that he thought it would be needed for strength, something like the Sydney Harbour Bridge, only heavier..

I pulled all that out, and am starting from scratch. Not only do I have to build, I have to design and plan the exercise, and as you can imagine, I would like a bit of help from the brilliance of the minds that haunt this forum.

The bus seats are gone but there are two Air con. units in the floor, in the middle of the back of the unit that must be removed. If I get a response I will tell you about getting information on this little job.

Are you out there, and prepared to be around for some time???? Please.

BB will be most grateful.

[wheelinround]

BB photo's will help for starters.

MDF wow weighty stuff springs must be stuffed, then again total weight = 3 Sumo wrestlers:U

Why removing the AC? This should be decommissioned by a licensed person. The gas is a major health hazard NO FLAMES around.:no: I wouldn't unless refitting with a different updated type.

[RETIRED]

Use Meranti (white or light tan, not red) 19mm x 19 mm for frames.

Buut joints with glue and screw at each intersection.

Cover in 3 mm ply glued to frames and panel pins for holding.

Rout out all openings.

Light and strong.

For bench tops use 12mm ply.

[Black Bear]

Some photos: I will fill in the story when I get home.

Timber against fence is the 3X2 treated structural pine that was the bed frame Aluminum will be used for the new frame.

Mate sitting, see the motors in the middle of the floor.

Front of Bus: Note sheet of MDF that was the bed base.

back soon
BB

Since the above posting I have found out that the 2 motors in the middle of the back of the bus are, in fact, for heating and not for AC. The AC goes through overhead distribution. This makes life easier for the removal of these units.

The sub-frames for cupboards, I am using recycled pine that I gather for nix from the glass factories around town. I run it down to 2 X 1 size (49 X19mm) and the supply is basically endless.

Aluminium of 25mm square section costs $22.00 for a 6m length, which compares very favorably with any purchased timber price, and I will save time (Wages) of fitting it together with knock ins for the corners and T joints. This will make up the bed frame.

I am biscuit jointing the sub-frames, takes time but it will be light weight in the finish. This requires the 2x1 for the biscuit cut on the ends.

So that is where I am up to in material other than using silky oak as the fronts of the benches and cupboards and drawers. I have the silky oak and am selling it to mate at $35.00 per slab 1,5m X 500mm X 40mm and dressing it up.

Naturally I can't use a level so I built a large square and am working with that, seems to be the way to go.

Things are much easier when someone comes along with a drawn plan and asks you to build according to the plan. In this little exercise I am the designer, the planner and the builder, which is working my 72 year old brain to the point where I do a lot of the construction layout in my dreams at night.

All help and suggestions gratefully received
BB

[whitewood]

Black Bear
If your looking for something light in weight and light in colour consider using Paulownia. Its easy to work with and glues up very well. It was used in Golf Vans and I think in Jayco. You can buy 'planks', panels or 12 mm thick wall linings. The local garage is doing up an old bus and intends to paint the roof black and attach 50 x 4.5 mm strips leaving small gaps between each
Food for thought?
Whitewood

[Big Shed]

Had a look at this (http://www.duraliteaustralia.com.au/) at the last Caravan and Camping Show, very impressive but not cheap!

[Black Bear]

Use Meranti (white or light tan, not red) 19mm x 19 mm for frames.

Use butt joints with glue and screw at each intersection. Fancy joints are not needed unless you want to.

Cover in 3 mm ply glued to frames and panel pins for holding.

Rout out all openings.

Light and strong.

For bench tops use 12mm ply.

Are you guys still interested in throwing your knowledge at me in regards to this project.

I hope I am not coming over as "Yeah! I know" but I did give some consideration, using my basic knowledge, before taking of a job this large.

There are some things that the owner had already purchased and wants to use, so I am trying to work to his money level without ripping myself off.

Using sheets of melamine would be a lot easier but weight wise against framing it will be 3 times the weight of the way I am doing it. I hope.

NOTE: If buying aluminum 25 X 25 and using knock ins allow 25mm for each knock in take up.

I put this square section Al. 25 X 25mm in Tom's press and got 1.2 tonne before collapse. I used a 300 mm length for this test and admit that a longer section would most possibly collapse sooner. Admittedly, one has to take in the movement of the frame whilst under load, however it comes in well above the anticipated load to be applied.

Working like a Ship's Chippy is new to me, but that is the way we go.

Thanks for your interest
BB

[RETIRED]

I have made quite a few frames out of cubelock in our motorhome.

Don't forget that the covering adds immense strength if fitted properly.

PS, I take it that the melamine is thin.

[snowyskiesau]

Being a Sprinter owner, I also hang out over on Sprinter-Source.com - The best reSource for Sprinter van owners and enthusiasts. (http://sprinter-source.com).

There are a lot of DIY van conversions covered there, most of which use some form of plywood instead of MDF etc. Mostly US based but worth a look.

[Black Bear]

Being a Sprinter owner, I also hang out over on Sprinter-Source.com - The best reSource for Sprinter van owners and enthusiasts. (http://sprinter-source.com).

There are a lot of DIY van conversions covered there, most of which use some form of plywood instead of MDF etc. Mostly US based but worth a look.

There is some great work in these vans.

[Black Bear]

I have made quite a few frames out of cubelock in our motorhome.

Don't forget that the covering adds immense strength if fitted properly.

PS, I take it that the melamine is thin.

The only sheet I am using is some 6mm melamine covered particle board to line the water container area under the sink in case of spills.

A 1m X500 X700mm high cupboard framed up and finished,,,without the draws...I can lift over my head with ease.

I am building them in modular form in the work shed and then fitting them after they have had the d fronts sprayed.

Don't know cube lock...will check it out.

We still haven't got around to removing the heater motors from the floor of the unit yet. Will have to do it over a pit. I can't as I spin out when I lay flat on my back like needed.

It may not be the lightest possible way to do things but with the amount of finishing he intends to put in the van, but it won't amount to overload. I hope.

The bed frame from Al. weighs about 6 kilo.

The owner does have some hopefuls: A shower and toilet.....100lL + tank in the boot with 60L under the sink......And something I would like to talk him out of is the 35mm thick bench top which will be 500mm X 2000. Heavy stuff.

Looking for a hand pump for the sink. Can get new fomo ABCO at $29.00

Are you supposed to catch the grey water from the sink if you camp rough?

Some photos coming soon.

Thanks Chaps
BB

[RETIRED]

The only sheet I am using is some 6mm melamine covered particle board to line the water container area under the sink in case of spills. That is not water proof. The slightest drop will make it swell and fall apart.

A 1m X500 X700mm high cupboard framed up and finished,,,without the draws...I can lift over my head with ease.

I am building them in modular form in the work shed and then fitting them after they have had the d fronts sprayed.

Don't know cube lock...will check it out. Cubelock is a system of joining 1" square aluminium together with plastic joiners. Mainly used for shop fittings but very strong.

We still haven't got around to removing the heater motors from the floor of the unit yet. Will have to do it over a pit. I can't as I spin out when I lay flat on my back like needed.

It may not be the lightest possible way to do things but with the amount of finishing he intends to put in the van, but it won't amount to overload. I hope.

The bed frame from Al. weighs about 6 kilo.

The owner does have some hopefuls: A shower and toilet.....100lL + tank in the boot with 60L under the sink......And something I would like to talk him out of is the 35mm thick bench top which will be 500mm X 2000. Heavy stuff. 12 mm is more than sufficient. If he wants the thick look, add an edge.

Tell him that every kilo adds to the fuel bill.

Looking for a hand pump for the sink. Can get new fomo ABCO at $29.00

Are you supposed to catch the grey water from the sink if you camp rough? Most people put a bucket under the outlet but if you are in the scrub some places appreciate the water provided it is not fatty.
Some photos coming soon.

Thanks Chaps
BB:)

[Black Bear]

:)
My description of the melamine sheeting is not accurate. On sawing it today I found that it was actually a laminated sheet on both front and back. It was recovered fomo an elevator in a high rise.

Cube lock is the same as I am using, only I call them knock ins. There are many of these knock ins. Right angle, T section and 4 way connections. each one takes up 25mm of the aluminum section.

And the rest of your post is good advice. I have convinced him to do away with the 35mm bench top.

Thanks ....Now I know why you get the big money LOL

BB

PS has anyone calculated a labor cost for doing out a camper like this, and at what amount per hour.

[RETIRED]

It takes about 160 hours minimum if you are custom building and everything goes right (yeah, heard that before) AND you have all the materials and accessories on hand.

The last one we did was 430 hours all up spread over 6 months.

The worst part is you generally have to fit and check and then remove to make sure that other stuff fits behind.

[Black Bear]

It takes about 160 hours minimum if you are custom building and everything goes right (yeah, heard that before) AND you have all the materials and accessories on hand.

The last one we did was 430 hours all up spread over 6 months.

The worst part is you generally have to fit and check and then remove to make sure that other stuff fits behind.

That makes me feel a lot better, . This van is parked next door, my drive not being big enough, and I walk from the shed to the van many times during the day.

Every time he says, "Just put the cupboards and the bed in, and I will take it home for awhile", he comes back with..."You may as well put in the clothes hanger space, and then I will take it home for awhile". And on it goes.

He is paying as we go, so he can take it any time, if he wants.

I talked him out of using the 32mm bench top (Whew).

I am staying in touch with you blokes as an outlet for my worries over this one, adn already I am feeling butter.

Thanks
BB

[Black Bear]

, this is the material that I called melamine mistakenly as it is laminate on both sides of particle board. It is 7mm thick. it was also free in large sheets of 2400 X 600.

Thanks
BB

[RETIRED]

Chipboard. Same result if used near water. Cut a bit off and put it in a bucket of water. You will see what I mean.

[Black Bear]

Chipboard. Same result if used near water. Cut a bit off and put it in a bucket of water. You will see what I mean.

I understand what you are saying. I intend to silicon seal at the edges for under the sink in the water storage area...Do you think that will work? , or is there any suggestions on how I could seal the edge of the material, maybe using water proof PVA. from Carbatech.

The reason I am being persistent is that it is reasonably light and it is cheap.

BB

[RETIRED]

The reason I am being persistent is that it is reasonably light and it is cheap.So is ply of that size and stronger.

[Black Bear]

So is ply of that size and stronger.

Unless one buys marine ply, ordinary ply will swell if it gets wet.

The stuff I have has a laminate on both sides, the only place where the particle board can be seen is at the edges. The laminate is as strong as normal bench top laminate.

It couldn't be cheaper than free, hey?

Cheap 4mm marine ply 1200 x 2400 $78.00 plus delivery costs.

Sounds like I am being argumentative now. Sorry.

BB

[RETIRED]

Unless one buys marine ply, ordinary ply will swell if it gets wet.

The stuff I have has a laminate on both sides, the only place where the particle board can be seen is at the edges. The laminate is as strong as normal bench top laminate.

It couldn't be cheaper than free, hey?

Cheap 4mm marine ply 1200 x 2400 $78.00 plus delivery costs.

Sounds like I am being argumentative now. Sorry.

BBYou don't need marine ply. Ordinary CD exterior uses the same glue.

[snowyskiesau]

Hi Bear,

What are you using (or intend to use) as lining in the bus i.e. where there is no furniture?

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a sprinter that I want to line (maybe camper conversion one day). There are lots of threads in the sprinter forum I posted but they seem to use materials that are hard to get here.
I'd been looking at something like 4 mm ply installed with rivnuts.

[Black Bear]

You don't need marine ply. Ordinary CD exterior uses the same glue.

CD or even construction (bracing ply) comes in 12 mm.

[RETIRED]

We get it in 3mm here. Look for A-bond, that is waterproof glue.

[RETIRED]

Hi Bear,

What are you using (or intend to use) as lining in the bus i.e. where there is no furniture?

As I mentioned in a previous post, I have a sprinter that I want to line (maybe camper conversion one day). There are lots of threads in the sprinter forum I posted but they seem to use materials that are hard to get here.
I'd been looking at something like 4 mm ply installed with rivnuts.Have a look at lamipanel. Laminex (Melbourne,VIC) (http://laminex.rtrk.com.au/?scid=95401&kw=4110947&pub_cr_id=11469942691)

[RETIRED]

Here BB. Have a look at this site. Brace Ply F22 - Australian Wood Panels - Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide (http://www.awpanels.com.au/products/plywood/brace-ply-f22.htm)

[Black Bear]

One last question folks: One mention of 160 hours for a fit out caught my attention.

Taking the photo I put in of the van in an un-refurbished condition to a complete fit out, considering that the owner wants it to be a bit of a show piece, would anyone care to give a ball-park figure of time and cost, taking into account that much of the material will be supplied by the builder.

I can understand the owners concern at the cost that is being incurred, however I did tell him that the work is very detail involved. laborious and needing lots of fine finishing.

He came with the bus with stuff that had to be removed, no plans, no concept on layout nor material needed to do the work and left the lot to me. He agreed to an hourly wage figure, and in all honesty I have not charged him the full amount of time expended.

At those that have taken on a project such as this, you will appreciate the work required. The owner has now had second thoughts and is withholding payments for material supplied and work done.

Any comments from you guys will be not be considered as legal advice, simply advice from those that have carried out the same work in different situations.

There is no fool like an old fool that tries to help.

BB

[RETIRED]

As I said previously 160 Hours min if everything goes right and it is simple fitout with the basics.

Start adding Cd players and other whizzbang things and it changes.

Our labour rate is $80.00/hr but on these jobs we charge $60.00/hr because they are long term projects, however if we were doing it the way you are (a bit at a time and he takes it away) the price starts sliding back up towards the $80.00 mark because you have to start all over again with tools etc.

So 160 hours by $60.00/hr = $9600.00 plus material plus fittings.

All up it would be about $11000-$15000 depending on appliances.

[Black Bear]

As I said previously 160 Hours min if everything goes right and it is simple fitout with the basics.

Start adding Cd players and other whizzbang things and it changes.

Our labour rate is $80.00/hr but on these jobs we charge $60.00/hr because they are long term projects, however if we were doing it the way you are (a bit at a time and he takes it away) the price starts sliding back up towards the $80.00 mark because you have to start all over again with tools etc.

So 160 hours by $60.00/hr = $9600.00 plus material plus fittings.

All up it would be about $11000-$15000 depending on appliances.

PHEW! and he is complaining at $12.00per hour....which I was happy with if he had been Fair Dinkum.

Thank you , I am most obliged.

BB

[Black Bear]

I should have seen it coming!!!! After I had almost completed all the preliminary work, had his air re-circulatory system removed at a very good price ($50.) Supplied my Silky Oak, this chappie said one evening that her wanted to take the unit to the weigh bridge, and that I should take all my tools out of the bus.

In the wee small hours of the next morning he rolled the bus out of the driveway, not in reverse as he has a hooter on his reverse hear, and off into the gathering dawn.

Even then I was not too worried....Until 6,00pm that evening when I received a phone call from said bloke "I ain't paying you any money"....Ha Ha! Sed I, "You are full of jokes but that is not one of them"..."No Joke, you are too expensive for what I want".

So, off to the small claims tribunal, I guess.

I had cut my costs and wages to the bone as it was "To be a long term project", now I will be asking for an increased amount in wages.

No contact, just word of mouth agreements. And as they say a verbal agreement is not worth the paper it is written on.

BB