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Yvette S
19th December 2004, 09:23 AM
Hello All,

While I have been reading your forum for a while now to get some helpful hints in a lead up to our renovations, I have yet to post so this is a first.

I am just starting renovations at the moment on my bathroom (I figured I would start in the smallest and least used room in the house, then if I do something slightly dodgy it won't look so bad!).

I was originally just going to update the bathroom with new fittings so started pulling the old tiles off and plaster where the lovely people who built the house did not waterproof first and the plaster had turned soggy, but then decided what the heck, I'll have it how I want it first time around.

My original plan was just to replaster the walls after changing the pipes to whre I want them and leave the ceiling as is since it is in pretty good condition. Problem being I have started taking the walls out and have found that the ceiling does not go all the way to the wall edges, they have left a gap of about 10cm leading up to the wall and is just wide enough to be covered by the cornices (my hubby was very impressed to come into the bathroom yesterday to find me covered in insualtion that decorated me when it fell).

My question: Is this normal or were the people who built the house completely bodgy?, I know I'm new to doing renos but it seems silly to me to leave that much of a gap and also what do I do now! I still do not want to have to redo the ceiling if I can help it but does anyone have any suggestions on workarounds?

echnidna
19th December 2004, 09:30 AM
You could use a wide cornice to cover the gap.

Or fit strips of plaster to eliminate the gap. Be aware that plaster comes in different thicknesses so you may need to use a bit of packing so that the visible surfaces are at the same level. Bearing in mind this is your first job it is possibly far easier for you to finish the ceiling before you fit the cornice.

Yvette S
19th December 2004, 09:45 AM
So it's not meant to be that way? They were just being lazy when they were finishing? I thought there might be a reason why it was left like that. I am going with a wider cornice anyway so that isn't a problem but i don't like knowing that something isn't done properly and would like to be able to fix it properly.


I have some plasterboard here so will cut that into correct width and fix it around the edges.
And so the fun begins........ I am only in the first room and week, I still have four more main rooms to go!

seriph1
19th December 2004, 10:55 AM
G'day and a hearty welcome to the forum - you will find a wealth of help, info and opinion here!

If you will indulge me, I would like to ask some questions so we can get a cleaer picture of your situation:

how old is the home? what style, if any?
What construction? ie: timber/BV/SB etc. tile/tin roof
What kind of plaster have you found?
What general feel do you hope to achieve in the home and at this stage, the bathroom?
How far do you want to go with the reno's? ie: general tidy or in some cases full-on "nuking"?

Do you wanna transform the place into a particular period or regional style, like Victorian Style, Tuscan, or country style, etc.?

I reckon that'll do for now

:D:D:D:D

..... answering these will help narrow down what's what esp. when asking about replacement materials for jobs and such. For example, the new cornice will cover the old plaster, which for the record, isn't particularly badly done just because it doesnt go to the wall I have seen new construction and old done in this way and feel it is acceptable because after all it is covered by cornice so can't go anywhere.

have fun!

seriph1
19th December 2004, 10:57 AM
ps. do you have a digital camera? they are a great help when trying to explain the subtleties of that "left handed widget you have to fit to your foofle valve"

they are available very cheaply these days on ebay etc. and can really speed things up.

bitingmidge
19th December 2004, 11:26 AM
Yvette,

Typically plasterboard is stopped short of the walls and the ceiling because it makes for much easier fixing and is as you correctly assumed covered by cornice anyway.

You probably don't have a dodgy job!

10 cm is a pretty large gap though! How big were your cornices?

Unless you are pretty skilled, filling in that last 100mm will take a bit of work if you are going to avoid a crack along the join line, and of course getting it level won't be easy either.

Cheers,

P

Don Nethercott
19th December 2004, 11:56 AM
Re the walls - they should not be plaster in a bathroom (as far as I know anyway). There is a fibro like product (whose name escapes me at the moment but your hardware will be able to help you) that is water resistant. Use something that is water resistant to cement your tiles to.

PS Plaster is OK for the ceiling and cornice covers a multitude of sins (and makes finishing sooooo much easier.

Good luck
Don

Yvette S
19th December 2004, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the responses so far guys. I managed to get one photo done on the camera before the batteries died. Grrrr.

Steve, in response to your questions, The home is only 20 years old. No particular style except maybe 70's :-) hence the wanting to update a bit. Beige was the color of the day with the tiles and the parquetry looks a tad dated too. Liked it when I moved in but again someone dodged it and didn't seal it properly so bits have come up and all scratched and manky looking.

We bought the house 3 years ago:
It is a BV house with tile roof
The plaster is just plain old Gyprock 10mm

With the bathroom I just wanted to change it around a little and update it. The wally I bought the house off had the whole thing painted orange and blue inside (Nice! Good for hangovers!) Have repainted the majority of the house to a nice white finish :-) which was fine until we got around to doing the renos

With the renos we are pretty much pulling out the bathroom and starting from scratch. They have, to me, huge gaps between walls and cabinets (wondered why there were so many of those tacky looking strips down corners! don't want to pull the ones up on the floors now!) so I want to do it properly. I was planning on ripping of the plain old gyprock and after the plumbing has been done, putting up the green board for the bathrooms. i am using polished porcelain 40x40 tiles on the floor and cream ripple on the walls once i get them back up.

Once the bathroom and second toilet is completed I will be pulling out the old kitchen and getting a cabinet maker to make me up some cabinets. i have been given the name of a company that makes it all up and you just install yourself. about 1/3 of the price. i also have to pull out a stupid looking wall that houses two tiny cupboards that pretend to be pantries and wastes a lot of space. I have been lucky enough to find a program that allows me to draw up what I want in the kitchen and bathroom and gives you a realistic(semi) perspective of what it is supposed to look like when finished. We'll see!

I don't have any particular period in mind just want nice finishes that are easy to maintain and keep clean (Yes Girls do think of the end result too. For the most part)

Anyway, I am sure that I have bored everyone to tears by now (my hubby just rolls his eyes and walks out to work on his car now)

I am including a picture of the ceiling, what the bathroom looked like halfway through pulling the tiles off and also what it will look like when done.

Cheers

:D:D:D:D

seriph1
19th December 2004, 12:13 PM
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

sorry, just needed a moment's reflection on your existing tiles

:D

nice little program that! (nice trees you have outside :) .)Helps to get a good idea what will go where. Thanks for all your info, sorry for asking a bunch of obtuse questions. Being a home fo that age, you have a wide range of things you can do - this is great! You will learn a bunch of things by doing the bathroom too!

Hows the light and ventialtion for the room? I note there's no toilet in there - is it next door?

There is a huge range of matching/complimentary fittings available for bathrooms now, from handrails through to taps and even light fittings..... what do you plan for lighting, esp. for the vanity area? A pair of lights on either side of the mirror can be a real help - such things will need to be planned now though of course.

Are your floor tiles cream too or will you be using a contrasting colour? I am thinking youre going for the clean/fresh/minimalist lines in this one..... please correct me if i am wrong, which I am brilliant at being ...... and to risk appearing totally anal, make sure you buy floor tiles for the floor..... it avoids a world of pain in the future..... unfortuately I have personal experience in not getting this right


have fun!

Yvette S
19th December 2004, 03:30 PM
Yes, Yes I know. Now you can see why I want to change it. And don't you love the color of the walls. That is the color that was in every single room when we moved in excepting for the Main Bedroom, Ensuite and another bedroom which were very blue. Niice.

The program is really cool, free for 25 hours worth and is absolutely brilliant. You should see how my kitchen is going to look! So I know the scenery is not the best but it actually changes the lighting condition if you take a window out and you can't change the view.

For above the mirror over the vanity I was planning on one of those pictre lights that you can get at Ikea and the like and are bathroom rated. There is already an exhaust fan in the bathroom and we will just have one normal light fitting for the whole of the room and then the one over the vanity. We were going to go with one of those 3 in one thingummies but decided against it as was overkill. We have ducted heating so didn't need that portion of it, exhaust fan, didn't need that and light. So. Any thoughts on why it would be better to have one?

Yes the toilet is next door in a separate room. We thought about taking out the wall in between but then decided I hate it in other peoples houses when the toilet is within the bathroom.

The floor tiles are a beige with a marble vein running through them, picked them up fairly cheaply (of course hubby didn't think so when I came home and had paid the same price as for ceramic when I specifically went to the auctions to get cheaper ones, oops, but as I pointed out we wouldn't have been able to afford them otherwise) I will attach a couple of photos to give you an idea.

seriph1
19th December 2004, 04:41 PM
gawd, I didnt even look twice at that colour - I thought it was a piece of MDF leaning aginst the wall.

Not sure what you mean by the IKEA light, but if it is similar to

http://shop.store.yahoo.com/brandsplace/0010-ls-819.html

then I get it. You just have to ensure it gives you adequate light on both cheeks .... upper ones I am referring to of course :D

Have you been bitten by the GEM auction bug? Even if they ended up at near retail, we arent talking 65 square metres here, so they shouldnt break the bank...... DIYing this project will save you thousands anyway.

lookinf forward to the progress!

Yvette S
19th December 2004, 05:53 PM
Nah. Good old Grays. Got them for 22p/m. Wasn't too bad I thought. Similar kind of light to that but more flat against the wall with a pelmet across the top that directs the light straight down and out a little bit. I'll keep you updated as I go.

seriph1
19th December 2004, 06:00 PM
coolies

GEM is Grays - gray eisdale matthews

Jacksin
19th December 2004, 06:21 PM
G'day Yvette, with your floor layout, if you have room, have you given any thought to placing the bath along the left wall and having a seperate shower recess in the right hand corner. Large recess if possible in case you want to save water and shower with a friend. :rolleyes:

Its only an idea because I dislike showers over the bath as a safety issue, you know, soap in eyes, stumbling around feeling for a towel, and falling over the bath riser and bending your bones.
Jack ;)

Yvette S
19th December 2004, 06:56 PM
We did think about the separate shower issue but in that particular bathroom the shower never gets used. We use the one in the ensuite. We don't have kids as yet and by the time they would be big enough to use the shower I would probably be bored with the decor again! It has only been used twice since we moved in three years ago.

Also, the room is not that huge. 2700 x 1730 and I really want the surround to go all the way around the bath. Girl thing, you know.

journeyman Mick
19th December 2004, 10:34 PM
Yvette,
welcome to the pancake house, sorry mad house. The bathroom is technically the most demanding room to renovate and it and the kitchen are the most expensive, so you've set yourself up for a steep learning curve. I would recommend against using the "wet area" plasterboard in favour of villaboard. It's a 6mm cement sheeting with recessed edges that can be set just like plasterboard but doesn't disintegrate when it's soaked. Do some searches on this site (if you haven't yet done so) for waterproofing, wet areas, and bathroom renovations. Waterproofing detail is all important in wet areas and even some conscientious pros get it wrong. Ask lots of questions and get all the manufacturer's data sheets.

Mick

Yvette S
20th December 2004, 07:52 PM
Hi,

Do you get the feeling that I like a challenge starting with a bathroom? I have done some minor renos, plastering etc, in my last house but decided to try something different.

I was advised to use the wet area plasterboard but had already looked into the cement sheeting as an alternative. Is that the blue one or is that something else again? Am I able to tile straight over it after waterproofing?

I have gotten a bit of info about waterproofing (which is more than can be said for the person who built the place. I think that if we had actually used the bathroom more than the twice we have since we moved in, the bath would now be somewhere under the house :) ) There was no waterproofing, or didn't seem to be behind the tiles or the board or the plaster which is why when i went to pry the board off it disintegrated in my hands. There was nothing under the bath, including support, it was actaully sitting suspended on the surround and not anywhere near the floor. It's a wonder the one time hubby used it he didn't collapse the thing!

I really appreciate all the help and suggestions everyone has offered (even though I got called a geek ;) by hubby) and look forward to more help in the future.

Cheers

journeyman Mick
20th December 2004, 10:25 PM
Yvette,
the blue cement sheeting is for exterior use (I think it's called Harditex from memory, not to be confused with Hardiflex).
Hardiflex: 4.5mm & 6mm cement sheeting for interior & exterior use, square edges, slightly rough surface.
Versilux: similar to Hardiflex but has a smoother, sanded surface.
Villaboard: Interior use only, 6mm thick, smooth sanded with recessed edges for flush joints.
Harditex(?): Exterior, blue, recessed edge sheeting.

You only need to use the villaboard on areas that aren't covered by tiles, but it's usually easier to do the whole bathroom in it (unless you're having all the walls completely tiled). Flush all the joins but don't use topcoat on the areas that will be waterproofed and tiled. You can tile straight over the waterproof membrane. Order is:
1) sheet walls
2) 2 coats basecoat in joins
3) mark out tiled areas
4) waterproof membrane to tiled areas
5) topcoat to joints in non tiled areas
6) down a few beers
7) paint and tiles etc

Mick

seriph1
21st December 2004, 07:09 AM
....and post-afternoon nap, return beer-free, to fix beer-induced "creativity"

:D:D:D:D:D

Yvette S
21st December 2004, 06:48 PM
Thanks heaps for that. I was wondering what to do if was all going to be the hardflex. But one more question, if I don't drink beer, is bourbon alright as a substitute or do I have to go with wine coolers :( ?

seriph1
21st December 2004, 09:41 PM
silly .... wine coolers are meant to be worn on the head NOT drunk


the drunk part is perfectly handled by Bourbon I am reliably informed by SWMBO

Drinking is another of life's pleasures that has been denied me ..... like single-ness

but saying so achieves a similar headache

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D