AARG steel shed, condensation and rust

[woodie2]

Hi all, I have a steel shed (colorbond) and the weather here goes form 10 C (in the winter) to 40 C (in summer) during the day. Colder at night. Anyway, My shed gets condensation and the water drops into my shed. Rust is a bad problem with tools and equipment all getting rusty.

I am a part time wood worker and don't get into my shed for 2 or 3 weekends and I am thinking about insulation. I am thinking of lifting the roof sheets and installing sisalation in between the roof sheets and the purlings. I hope to then install insulation in the roof by putting the insulation up and then securing it with wire netting or the such.

I am then thinking about lining the shed walls with 3mm ply after installing insulation along the walls.

Does any one have any better way of doing this? If you have any pictures of the installation in the roof of your steel shed, it would give me a good idea of how to secure the installation to the roof. :B

[champs]

When you lift the roof, you might as well put in the sisalation that has air bubbles - it is like bubble wrap and will do both jobs (moisture and insulation). It will work better with a gap, ie over rafters and under battens.
If you use thicker ply on your walls, you can rack tools directly
Definitely a job to have a mate over to help.

[malb]

I had Aircell installed in the roof when my barn was built 5 years ago. Similar temp range but no condensation drips.

Incidentally my father was a builder and experienced the same problem with sisalation under a metal roof, woken in the night by the drip, drip, drip onto the ceiling. His last house was the last one he used sisalation on. It does not offer much in the way of thermal resistance or thermal mass, it's effectiveness is limited to reflecting heat back where it came from (inside or outside) and limiting drafts etc.

[artme]

Certainly is a bugger to contend with!

I try to cover my machines with old blankets or cloth. Thinking of getting a mate to make some vinyl covers.

[wun4us]

Certainly is a bugger to contend with!

I try to cover my machines with old blankets or cloth. Thinking of getting a mate to make some vinyl covers.


Artme, just a thought; wouldn't the vinyl (plastic) covers induce some condensation in the humid areas? I would think that preventing the condensation in the building would be the way to go, and if you want to cover the machines for some reason, like keeping the sawdust off them, then use cloth covers.:rolleyes:

JMHO

[wun4us]

Woodie, I agree with both Champs and Malb. Aircell is definitely the way to go, as is using either 7mm or thicker (12mm is good) ply for the lining. What I am doing is fixing battens around the walls at appropriate intervals to suit the sheets, then covering with reflective foil as a moisture barrier. The batts then go between the foil and the wall lining; they get a bit flattened in the process, but that doesn't have much effect on the insulation value, and is more than offset by the R value of the foil coupled with the moisture barrier. :2tsup:

[Chris Parks]

My reaction to this problem is get some air flowing through the building, in other words you want the hot moist air to be removed as the temp drops.

[wun4us]

My reaction to this problem is get some air flowing through the building, in other words you want the hot moist air to be removed as the temp drops.


Yep, and that too, but when the shop is closed up and secure, the only moderately effective way is a whirlybird or two (or more) depending on the size of the building. I don't like using these though, unless they have a temperature controlled shut off.:(

[Chris Parks]

Yep, and that too, but when the shop is closed up and secure, the only moderately effective way is a whirlybird or two (or more) depending on the size of the building. I don't like using these though, unless they have a temperature controlled shut off.:(

I would be interested in why you find that a problem as I have not heard it said before. In a cold climate I can see the issue but just put a small length of ducting into it and build a "blast gate" type shutoff to stop the air flow.

[wun4us]

I would be interested in why you find that a problem as I have not heard it said before. In a cold climate I can see the issue but just put a small length of ducting into it and build a "blast gate" type shutoff to stop the air flow.


I believe it is relative to where the original poster lives, and the temperatures that he says the area gets in summer and winter.

[artme]

Wun4, you are right and given my time over again I would go that way.

I have a vinyl cover over my BBQ and one over the poole table. Water condeses on the top of the cover but doesn' condense on the metal underneath. i guess if i wanted to be extra sure I could have cloth sewn onto the underside of the Vinyl.

[wun4us]

Wun4, you are right and given my time over again I would go that way.

I have a vinyl cover over my BBQ and one over the poole table. Water condeses on the top of the cover but doesn' condense on the metal underneath. i guess if i wanted to be extra sure I could have cloth sewn onto the underside of the Vinyl.

That's the ultimate answer artme, but the vinyl outer on the BBQ covers is to protect from outer precipitation such as rain or heavy dew, and the inner cloth to do like wise for the interior. If a shed had all as described previously, then there would not be a need for covers at all, given that proper and adequate preventative and operational maintenance was given to all tools from time to time, whether they are used or not.
Even a simple wipe over with a cloth dampened with WD40 or similar and then a clean/dry cloth does the job.

We spend a fair bit of money on our eqipment as time goes by, but there are many I'm sure who don't spend that much time on mai9ntaining their investment.:C:((


Cheers,
Barry

[Sawdust Maker]

Certainly is a bugger to contend with!

I try to cover my machines with old blankets or cloth. Thinking of getting a mate to make some vinyl covers.

I use some bits of lino, cut to size
just sits on the cast iron, no gap - seems to work

I haven't lined my shed - if I did I wouldn't catch the termites at their work (yep not a steel shed)

[wun4us]

I use some bits of lino, cut to size
just sits on the cast iron, no gap - seems to work

I haven't lined my shed - if I did I wouldn't catch the termites at their work (yep not a steel shed)
http://www.directsmiley.com/cat/4/4_2_205.gif

G'day Pockenholz! recovered from the Sydney WW show?

Pieces of lino as well as offcuts or not of ply, mdf, masonite, old blankets(or new ones), anything that "breathes" is good to cover up machinery from the ravages of the atmosphere in the shed. Its bad enough creating the sawdust and shavings (which I'm sure we all fastidiously and conscientiously clear away after each days work) let alone dealing with the dust and moisture in the atmosphere. Atmospheric dust (the soil type dust) can grind away at steel like valve grinding paste if left to accumulate.

I don't have all that much, and what I do have would not be considered at all expensive by many, but it is to me, and I do my best to take damned good care of it. I'm sure that none of us really want to throw money away replacing things unnecessarily!!!:oo:

Time to get off the soapbox now. Bye

http://www.directsmiley.com/cat/4/4_2_205.gif

[woodie2]

Thanks for all your advice. I have been to Mitre10 and the big green shed and priced the AIRCELL. Will be installing some soon.

Once again thanks for all the suggestions

[Yonnee]

I'm going to contradict what Malb stated, and recommend some sort of sizilation. I have it in my current shed, and do not get any condensation drips whatsoever. Even on the nights/mornings where the pergola/deck looks like it's raining inside, the shed is still bone dry. Same with factories I've worked in. The only drips we got on the stock in the warehouse were where the skylights were... no sizilation.

[wun4us]

I'm going to contradict what Malb stated, and recommend some sort of sizilation. I have it in my current shed, and do not get any condensation drips whatsoever. Even on the nights/mornings where the pergola/deck looks like it's raining inside, the shed is still bone dry. Same with factories I've worked in. The only drips we got on the stock in the warehouse were where the skylights were... no sizilation.


I have polycarbonate sheeting on part of my shed roof, and it so far has not shown any sign of drips or condensation on the inside. The shed also has Aircell insulation. I guess that most people install roof sarking of some sort or other for two reasons: to help prevent the ingress of water from faulty/damaged roofing material when it rains, as well as condensation that may occur underneath the iron roof as well; and also in most cases today, for some degree of insulation, depending on the type of material installed.

If there is any doubt that there may be moisture in the air in your shed, then it would be wise I believe, to provide some sort of barrier protection for the equipment at risk. As far as water drips are concerned, if they are a problem, then don't put any machinery beneath them.:2tsup:

JMHO FWIW

[Glider]

IMO a lot of this problem relates to the pitch of the roof and possibly the profile, with custom orb being the best. My open machinery sheds and locked workshop at Oberon are corrugated with a steeper pitch and don't drip at all. The shallow pitch polycarb roof on the open deck drips like crazy. None have sisalation.

I'm very surprised to hear Malb's father had a dripping roof with sisalation. An exhaust fan from a stove which vents into the roof space might explain the problem.

Woodie, are your tools rusting because they are under the drips? If not, then you have a ventilation and/or rising damp problem. If so, then lifting the roof sheets to install standard sisalation is the way to go. That's what it's designed for. IMO, Aircell under the steel will not do much more than the regular sisalation.The Uni of SA did some studies showing that the stated R rating of blanket insulation is reduced by over 50% because of leakage against the purlins and the metal roof itself. Aircell is designed to droop between the purlins to achieve anything like its claims. Most of the insulation comes from the reflective coating so IMO you might as well save your money.

Another approach might be to tech screw villaboard sheets under the purlins which will catch the drips and also provide a fair degree of insulation and airflow between ceiling & roof.

Mick :)

[woodie2]

The tools are rusting due to the moisture in the air and due to the drips from the steel roof. I have moved the machinery away from the drips, but the water that drips into the shed increases the moisture in the air and then the tools start to rust.:(( I am considering lining the shed with 6 mm or 12 mm ply with insulation between the walls and the new lining. Will have to move everything from around the wall to line the shed. I will probably undertake the work during the Spring, so I can move some of the machinery out of the shed. Until then I would like to put silver glide over the steel areas of the machinery. I also hve a roof vent sucking air out when the wind blows (just of late the wind has been realy blowing gale force winds)

Thanks for all your suggestions.

[Boringgeoff]

G'day Woodie2, you've gotta ask yourself where's the moisture coming from? If you've got a roof vent and reasonable air flow, then you shouldn't be getting that much condensation that its dripping from the roof.
My guess would be that your floor is not laid on plastic and thats where the moisture is coming from. The importance of having a moisture barrier under your floor cannot be stressed too highly.
What to do about it? There may be some type of sealer you can coat the floor with, and I'm sure someone out there will be able to advise us in that regard. But for mine I'd empty the shed, lay black plastic and pour another slab over the old one. Scary expensive stuff but thats my background, I love concrete.

Geoff.

[Glider]

You might try this product Instant Pro MOISTURE BARRIER (http://www.instantpro.com.au/PRODUCT/moisture_barrier.htm) before committing to an new slab. You can coat over it with some sort of paving paint.

Mick :)

[Boringgeoff]

There you go Woodie2, I'll bet if you try that your problems solved.
Good one Mick.

Geoff.