Chinese cutting disks not equal to Flexovit

[Franklin]

Not having a plasma cutter I cut steel using the 1mm thick angle grinder cutting disks.
On Saturday I had 4 cuts to do on a 10mm plate, each cut 770mm long. Bought 10 cutting disks from Bunnings, $1.70 or so each.
Fit them to the grinder and touch the steel and they flex and wander like a piece of paper, persevered and managed to do 1 and 2/3 cuts before all 10 disks were gone.
Went back to Bunnings and purchased 10 Flexovit ($2.70 or so each), used 1 and 1/2 disks to cut the remaining 2 cuts and finished off the other unfinished cut. $4 worth of Flexovit disks v's $17 of Chinese disks and the Flexovit disks were a lot quicker and cut better and just felt nicer to use (and I didn't have to change disks so often).

Totally different to the chinese ones, what a waste of resources (and money) China is. Building stuff that only appears to do the job. Experiences like this just reinforce my desire to have nothing to do with anything that is manufactured in China.

Hope you find my experience useful and don't make the same false economy mistake I did.

cheers
Frank

[matthew_g]

I use SMITH AND ARROW disks found on Ebay and find them better that any other disk I have used, Including flexovit..And no I have nothing to do with them exept being a happy customer..

[Jekyll and Hyde]

I use SMITH AND ARROW disks found on Ebay and find them better that any other disk I have used, Including flexovit..And no I have nothing to do with them exept being a happy customer..

Haven't used Smith and Arrow myself, but I got hold of a heap of Fischer brand discs, and they last about 5 times as long as the Flexovits. Believe the price is around the same as the Flexovit ones, not sure where to actually get them retail though (bought through a rep in my trade).

[WillyInBris]

Haven't used Smith and Arrow myself, but I got hold of a heap of Fischer brand discs, and they last about 5 times as long as the Flexovits. Believe the price is around the same as the Flexovit ones, not sure where to actually get them retail though (bought through a rep in my trade).

These ones ?
Metal Cutting Discs, 4Inch, Pack Of 10 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metal-Cutting-Discs-4Inch-Pack-10-/120574774715)
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metal-Cutting-Discs-5Inch-Pack-25-/120574776249

I have been using some bunnings brand and they weren't so good found a couple of Flexovites in the bottom of my toolbox and they last so much longer but if those are the ones your talking about J&H I may order some as I am on my last flexi disk and I dont want to go back to what I was using.

[Dave J]

I use SMITH AND ARROW disks found on Ebay and find them better that any other disk I have used, Including flexovit..And no I have nothing to do with them exept being a happy customer..


Hi Mathew,
Ben from Smith and Arrow joined here a while back and offered our member LordBug a pack of 25 x 180mm x 1.6mm INOX grade Cutting wheels for free, but he never reported back.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=338013 (http://www.woodworkforums.com/private.php?do=showpm&pmid=338013)

http://www.smithandarrow.com.au/splash-page.html (http://www.smithandarrow.com.au/splash-page.html)

I inquired about them via PM and he offered to send me a box of 10 x 230mm x 2mm INOX cutting wheels, which I thought was a generous offer, but I suppose if you have a good product you want the word out their.

All he asked (in his words) was that if I felt comfortable that I could offer a fair and balanced perspective taking into account value for money verses the quality of the product to put my thoughts on the forum.

I am a bit late with everything that has gone on this year, but my reports are all good and will be using these in the future when my other size stocks run out.
They turned up within 3 days and where in there own cardboard box and the disc's where shrink plastic wrapped together inside.

I found they are just as good as the more expensive ones I have been using for years and last just as long, (maybe longer). Some of the Flexovit ones I have been getting just seem to disappear after a few cuts.

So this is another vote for Smith and Arrow INOX disc's.

Usual disclaimer, I don't have anything to do with the company other than being asked to try them and give my opinion. If they where bad I would say so, as I am not going to mislead you guys into buying rubbish. From looking at the website these guys are setup world wide.

I often see those 1mm thick Chinese disc's for around a $1 or less each at the local markets and cheap shops, but have never tried them because of fear of explosion. I don't usually use a guard on the smaller 4-5inch machines because of the awkwardness and like my fingers. LOL

Dave

[Jekyll and Hyde]

These ones ?
Metal Cutting Discs, 4Inch, Pack Of 10 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metal-Cutting-Discs-4Inch-Pack-10-/120574774715)
Metal Cutting Discs, 5Inch, Pack Of 25 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Metal-Cutting-Discs-5Inch-Pack-25-/120574776249)

I have been using some bunnings brand and they weren't so good found a couple of Flexovites in the bottom of my toolbox and they last so much longer but if those are the ones your talking about J&H I may order some as I am on my last flexi disk and I dont want to go back to what I was using.

Not quite the same as mine... Picture below (you think I could find the bloody things online anywhere?). Mine make mention of stainless steel on them, might have something to do with the way they last?

[LordBug]

Good find Dave, and shamefully I've been shockingly, well, shocking with getting my opinion on the discs down. Much like too many of my projects embarrassingly :(

Simple opinion on the 180mm discs though, brilliant. I couldn't track down anything similar, so my comparison group wasn't all that fantastic, but they work and last better than what I did manage to compare them against.
There have been a few times where they've been pinched between the metal I've been cutting, and once or twice the cut ended sooner than I expected and I hit what was behind with a bit of force, but the discs didn't explode much to my surprise (And thankfulness!), only a small piece would crumble off gently.

I also subsequently purchased a pack of 100mm discs, and their performance for the price has been stellar. Life feels equal to more expensive discs, if not better (I haven't used a Flexovit in a long time now), and because of that and having a large pack I feel more comfortable using them a tad rougher. I find they do a much better job of getting paint off surfaces prior to welding than a grinding disc or stripper disc (For so much less!)

They've got my support too, so I really need to do a better write up on them.


No affiliation, just received a free packet of 180mm discs to test out some time back.

[Dave J]

Don't worry your not the only one, I got my disc's around the same time as you and am only now saying something about them when this thread came up.:doh:
I was always going to get around to doing a right up and have even kept the PM from him all this time to quote it.
It's good to hear a few peoples thoughts on them, so it's not just me thinking/saying they are good.

I should have said earlier, Thanks Ben.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup:

Dave

[Franklin]

Nice of you guys to reccomend better disks now that I've finished cutting :(. Good thing there is always more metal to cut.

I think these are the same as the chinese disks I got from bunnings
Rocket 10pk Thin Cutting Discs Metal 100x1x16mm 100mm | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rocket-10pk-Thin-Cutting-Discs-Metal-100x1x16mm-100mm-/260835958419?pt=AU_HardwareParts&hash=item3cbb08de93)

I note that it works out cheaper to buy Smith & Arrow from ebay ($55 free postage) than their online shop ($52.25 + post).

[19brendan81]

I use the Smith and Arrow 125mm x1mm discs exclusively now (previously I would buy Flexovit). I have never done any testing back to back with flexovit but I would be willing to bet they perform just as well, and they are around 1/4 of the price.

I have recently bought a box of the smith and arrow flappers too which im keen to try.

Im pretty sure the Smith and Arrow stuff is made in China...can anyone confirm or deny this?

[WelderMick]

and I hit what was behind with a bit of force, but the discs didn't explode much to my surprise (And thankfulness!)


I also subsequently purchased a pack of 100mm discs, and their performance for the price has been stellar.


I was wondering if these were any good. I've got some 100mm INOX disks. I was pretty happy with them but not having done a proper comparison I always wonder. I doubt I could get over 2m of cut through 10mm steel in just a few disks though!

I shattered one the other day (operator error) but found the majority of the disk remained attached. So happy enough on that front too. Cheers - Mick

[Dave J]

I was wondering if these were any good. I've got some 100mm INOX disks. I was pretty happy with them but not having done a proper comparison I always wonder. I doubt I could get over 2m of cut through 10mm steel in just a few disks though!

I shattered one the other day (operator error) but found the majority of the disk remained attached. So happy enough on that front too. Cheers - Mick


Was that a 1mm disc that shatered?

Dave

[WelderMick]

Yep 1mm. Caught the side on a sharp edge and took a quarter segment off the disk. Cheers - Mick

[kraits]

ive come across the tool name brand disks when purchasing a grinder like makita or hitachti or even makita and you get a few free disks (absoluts waste of space they are), personally only ever used flexovit disc's, proven in fabrication industry as a superior product.

as for disc's shattering, yes it it operator error and in the hands of an unskilled user can prove to be extremely hazardous.

had one shatter on me a while ago, a skinny cutting disc, was cutting a door out of 10mm wall thikness pipe and on the final cut the pipe grabbed the disk and shattered it spraying me with fine particles of disc, left me standing there feeling for wounds and blood, fortunatly i got away with it but, i learnedmy lesson there and then, tack it in place before you make the final cut if you dan't want a peice if disc lodged in your head.

[Dave J]

Here is a bit of a story about a grinder when I was young.

When I was around 17, a mate that lived across the road and 3 houses down came over and asked me to help finish cutting his old Datsun car in half to get rid of it, as his other mate (Greg) had left half way through. He wasn't real good with tools and wouldn't use the grinder, a orbital sander was about his limit.LOL

No problems I said and headed over their. He gave me the 9 inch grinder which was plugged in ready to go and I noticed strait away it had a piece of wooden dowel with some eleco tap around it as a handle.:o His father had passed away and left him his tools but it had no handle on it, so he thought the tight fitting slip in dowel was good enough for a handle.:doh:
So I went and had a look what needed to be done which was the tunnel. When I was looking I noticed what looked like blood on the floor, and I asked about it he said, yea Greg was cutting and it grabbed, the handle came out and the grinder hit him in the mouth. I asked where he was and he said he was up the hospital.:o

Of course I didn't do the job and I couldn't believe he was now asking me to do it.:~, A few hours latter Greg came back with 9 stitches in his lips and nose and it had ground half of tooth.
All this was because the cutting disk had jambed on the tunnel when the car started to collapse inward because it was supported on each end, then the bodgy wooden handle came out as he had the handle on the underside of the grinder when he was cutting.
He is lucky it didn't do more damage.

The car ended up going as it was because no one would use that grinder.

Dave

[pipeclay]

Should of had some screws in it to stop the handle coming off.

[Fuzzie]

I bought some hacksaw blades the other day which must have come from the same Chinese maker as Franklin's cutoff discs.

I just keep wondering how the Chinese industrialization explosion that is keeping our economy afloat is able to be sustained in an economy producing and presumably using these quality tools.

The US economy is falling apart because the financial wizzes have packaged cr@p as real product. Maybe this is a warning that the Chinese economy might not be so resilient if it is based on this sort of cr@p that is packaged as real product.

[Stustoys]

Sure they make some rubbish, but its a little much to right off everything the country makes because of a couple of bad products. Remember "the Japanese can't build good cars or electrical goods"?

Sure I've had some rubbish. I bought some hacksaw blades that were staggeringly bad. I'd given some away to a mate before I had tried them. They were so bad I bought some others to replace them on the condition that he returned the first lot lol. Some were like glass and others you could bend back on themselves.

Most of the Chinese products I have work well enough. Certainly well enough for the money.

I believe about 80% of what is made in China is now used internally.

Stuart

[19brendan81]

The chinese produce a range of stuff. Some good quality (like the Smith and Arrow discs we all rave about) and some crap. Its an extremely narrow minded view to assume its all the same.

Almost all electrical appliances, whitegoods and pretty much anything you can name these days is chock a block full of chinese bits because as a whole they can do it as good as anyone else for a fraction of the price. Even the majority of commodore and falcon parts are made in china these days.

Most western economies have evolved to the point where its financially impossible to manufacture consumer goods locally. Due to labour market reforms and high minimum wages in these countries its just too expensive to do it, not to mention the fact we have no expertise in mass manufacture of modern goods so quality would be doubtful at best.

[Dave J]

When I spoke to my local SKF bearing guy that has worked their for years, he told me they are setting up a plant in China under their quality control.
He assured me the quality would be just as good as they will be supplying the metal and are sending SKF guys over their.

They will still be producing in other countries but I would say in another 20-30 years those plant will making less or close down (just my thoughts)

It all comes down to what do you want made at what price. Some of the Chinese stuff is brilliant, but you pay a lot for it, where other stuff is just cheap and crap.
It is the same with the inox wheels, you pay a bit more for a Chinese disk, but get the quality. If you decide they are too dear and buy cheaper you will have problems as the quality goes down.

Dave

[Hunch]

Went back to Bunnings and purchased 10 Flexovit ($2.70 or so each), used 1 and 1/2 disks to cut the remaining 2 cuts and finished off the other unfinished cut. $4 worth of Flexovit disks v's $17 of Chinese disks and the Flexovit disks were a lot quicker and cut better and just felt nicer to use (and I didn't have to change disks so often).

Thought Bunnings was supposed to be the poor Aussie version of Walmart = cheap.

We usually buy moderate quantities of the Flexovits @ around 1.75 each, believe they're around 2.30ish individually from an industrial supplier. Appears another large retailer taking the mug consumer for a ride, if the pricing is accurate.

[Fuzzie]

Yes it probably comes down to, not the quality of the Chinese product; but the choice the retailer makes on what is suitable (and can get away with) to sell to the public. I note with interest over the last few months a strong resurgence of brand names in the green shed tool shop although the inventory diversity seems to be shrinking. I've generally put that down to the imminent arrival of Master competion, but maybe it's just a reaction to people refusing to return to buy the junk line.

I still find it amazing that if you buy m10 nuts out of the building supply aisle they cost like 17c each and if you buy them out of the nuts and bolts aisle they are like 45c each. That's got nothing to do with quality.

[Dropcat]

The notion that the Chinese make crap is screwing this country - even if it is crap at least they're making something.

Like any manufacturer they'll make it to the price you want. If you're asked to make a cheap wooden box, you'll pull out the radiata pine or the MDF, not the good stuff, and as for finish, what finish?

This bloke - Arise the Sun King - National - smh.com.au (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/arise-the-sun-king/2006/09/11/1157826874519.html) & here - http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/11/news/international/powell_shi.fortune/index.htm; popped up on TV the other night.

Neither article mentions it, but Green, his teacher, now works for him in China.

And what are we doing? "Ah the Chinese, all they can do is make crap". Me, I think I'll learn Chinese.

[Bryan]

If you learn Chinglish you can have a career translating manuals.

[Dave J]

If you learn Chinglish you can have a career translating manuals.


LOL

Dave

[19brendan81]

You wouldnt believe it, but last night I was in my shed doing some work and I fired up my metal cut off saw to lop off some 50mm bar for the lathe. Put on a brand new Flexovit 300mm disc, made one cut OK then half way through the second cut I tore a chunk off the disc the size of a playing card.

Despite blowing my money on a supposedly quality product I had to laugh as it was an incredibly timely reminder that paying top dollar for something does not make it immune from failure.

[Franklin]

I just keep wondering how the Chinese industrialization explosion that is keeping our economy afloat is able to be sustained in an economy producing and presumably using these quality tools.


A few years back two guys from work went to Hong Kong to do a job for the port there. They needed some tools to mount some gear on the large container ships, so they went into a shop they described as like an older version of Dick Smith (before they went solely into consumer electronics), bought some tools, etc. On getting back I had a look at what they purchased, all of it was top quality steel, good workmanship and MADE IN GERMANY. So my experience tells me they dont use their own cr@p, just sell it to the no returns export market.

[Dave J]

You wouldnt believe it, but last night I was in my shed doing some work and I fired up my metal cut off saw to lop off some 50mm bar for the lathe. Put on a brand new Flexovit 300mm disc, made one cut OK then half way through the second cut I tore a chunk off the disc the size of a playing card.

Despite blowing my money on a supposedly quality product I had to laugh as it was an incredibly timely reminder that paying top dollar for something does not make it immune from failure.

Your lucky you didn't get hit.:o I have done a few 9 inch ones over the years but only taken a small bit out of them, and thats scary enough with the vibration.
I think it's time you bought a bandsaw and save the noise and the expensive disks (compare to blades for the bandsaw)

Dave

[Dave J]

A few years back two guys from work went to Hong Kong to do a job for the port there. They needed some tools to mount some gear on the large container ships, so they went into a shop they described as like an older version of Dick Smith (before they went solely into consumer electronics), bought some tools, etc. On getting back I had a look at what they purchased, all of it was top quality steel, good workmanship and MADE IN GERMANY. So my experience tells me they dont use their own cr@p, just sell it to the no returns export market.

I have heard people say that before about the tools.

Dave

[19brendan81]

It stayed in the job, so I was OK.

Yeah I want some other form of cutter. I dont think I have the patience for a bandsaw...but would love a coldsaw....not sure I can justify the $$$ though.

How long would a bandsaw take to lop through that 50mm bar?

[pipeclay]

That would all depend on the size bandsaw you would use.

[Dropcat]

If you learn Chinglish you can have a career translating manuals.

Nah, that's a saturated market.

The growth area is Indian. Indglish? Indlish? Chinglia? Though you'd be competing with the call centre workers...

[Franklin]

Though you'd be competing with the call centre workers...

people like this guy

[Dropcat]

people like this guy

...and he's almost finished the manual for my jack hammer. Wish he'd hurry, I still can't figure out how to change the bit.

[Dave J]

...and he's almost finished the manual for my jack hammer. Wish he'd hurry, I still can't figure out how to change the bit.

:haha2:

Dave

[Dave J]

It stayed in the job, so I was OK.

Yeah I want some other form of cutter. I dont think I have the patience for a bandsaw...but would love a coldsaw....not sure I can justify the $$$ though.

How long would a bandsaw take to lop through that 50mm bar?

Hi Brendan
As for patience, after the initial setup they are pretty well right from then on. I haven't touched any blade guide adjustments in around 2 or more years.

I haven't timed it, but would say around 5 minutes in a small saw like we all have. The beauty of it is you can go do something else while it cuts and it will turn it self off if your not close or paying attention. There is not much more noise than the electric motor running, no dust flying through the air and very little heat is created compared to a abrasive saw. Also the width of cut is really small so less wastage, cleaner cut and they have very tiny burr to remove.

With all the machines in my shed I won't use my abrasive saw inside because of the airborne particles it produces, but the bandsaw can run all day if I wanted without damaging anything else.

With the cost, again I have never counted it's only a guess, but I would say you could cut at least 50 cuts in that 50mm round and probably still be able to go more, all for $11. I run my blades until the snap to get the most out of them. It may take a little longer as they wear, but I don't have to stand there while it cuts. I run a small coolant set up on mine which extends the blade life 2-3 times longer.

Dave

[WillyInBris]

:2tsup: Thanks for the link to the Smith and Arrow site guys I will give them a try.