how far apart should the piers should be?

[J-a-y]

Just wondering if I could get some advice on how far apart the piers should be.

Bought a cheap table saw and some pine. Put together a baseboard 480mm x 630mm to build a 6m x 8m house to a scale of 1:15.
I was thinking 5 piers by 7 piers.
6m with 5 piers equals 1500mm apart
8m with 7 piers equals 1333mm apart
Lay the bearers across 1500mm and the joists across 1333mm - what do you think?

Baseboard with piers and bearers roughly laid out (pic)
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/ScaleWeekender003.jpg (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/ScaleWeekender003.jpg)
Design (software pic)
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/PioHouse01.jpg (http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/PioHouse01.jpg)

Thanks
Jay

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

In a real house we basically have the bearers 1200mm apart and the stumps spaced at 1200 to 1800mm intervals along the bearers.

Joists on top spaced at 900mm intervals.

Smaller distances are always better, but then costs rise.

So, in your model at 1:15, those spacings are probably about right for a "cheap, quick knock-up" house.

Fortunately, in a model these costs aren't quite so... extreme. :U So I'd do what I would like to do in a real house if cost wasn't a factor and throw another line of stumps along the 8m dimension. Which'd bring the spacing down to ... 1140mm.

[J-a-y]

So, in your model at 1:15, those spacings are probably about right for a "cheap, quick knock-up" house.

Thanks Skew,
Ok, I'll put the bearers 1300mm apart and the stumps placed 1500mm along the bearers. Why are the joists at 900mm? I thought they were 450mm apart.

I'm building the model with the intention of building full size one day (bucket list).

I'm surprised how much timber goes into a house, even this small !
Cut some 7.5 x 3.75 today.
Bought a Ryobi Blower/Vac for $25 from a garage sale (no one wants them), makes a great dust extractor.

Calculate unknown angles or lengths by entering ANY TWO (2) known variables
The Log Factory - Angle calculator (http://www.thelogfactory.com.au/building_calculators.aspx)

[Grandad-5]

I thought they (Joists) were 450mm apart.

Skew will prob come back with further info, but in the meantime, here's my 2 bits worth.

"In my day".....one of those expressions I swore I'd never use.....joists were indeed at 450mm or 18" OC.
But that was in the day of T&G flooring being the norm.
Nowadays with yellow/red tongue, I dare say things have changed.
Cheers
Jim

[crowie]

G'Day Jay,
Looks like an interesting project.
Hoping you don't mine if I come along for the ride.
Cheers, crowie

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

My apologies. You're both quite right. They are normally 450mm apart.

I'd just finished in another thread which was talking about lengths of floorboards and someone "getting stuck with" lots of short, 900mm lengths in an order.

Somehow that number got stuck in my head. :B Bad Brain! :doh:

[J-a-y]

In a real house we basically have the bearers 1200mm apart and the stumps spaced at 1200 to 1800mm intervals along the bearers.

Thanks Skew,
I'll run the bearers the long way of the house, spaced 1200mm apart, that will give me 6 x 8metre bearers.

Pier spacing along the 8 metre wall.

Looking at billyt's scale house
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f201/1-20th-scale-house-131219/

in the close up pic of his framing, the pier spacing isn't in a grid pattern, but seems to be rearranged to suit the double joists under the walls.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/billyt-53/Woodwork/Scalemodelhouse18.jpg

the piers under the external walls
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn110/billyt-53/Woodwork/P1010683.jpg

Just wondering,
Do I keep a grid pattern and add extra piers to support the walls
or, are the piers rearranged under the house to support the walls, keeping the outside piers in an even pattern for appearance
or, is this too big of a question and I'm too big of a boofhead.

Cheers,
Jay

[Grandad-5]

Hi Jay,
Is this practice for someday building the real thing?
Is it your intention that this model will be a trial run?

If so, may I offer up the following?
I'm in Victoria and you're in NSW. Straight away we have a huge difference.
Secondly, the last time I had to design and build a timber framed house, we in Vic used a publication called The Victorian Timber Framing Manual.
It had all the spans and dimensions needed to design the layout of every part of a timber framed house. From what size timber to use to what it's max span could be to what spacings they had to be. Every size and type of timber was different.

If we were talking 20 yrs ago and you were living in Vic I'd say grab a copy of this manual and study it.
But, that manual is now obsolete here and heaven knows what it's current equivalent is in NSW.

But there are several builders on this forum. Perhaps one of them can guide you to what they use today.

The first thing you'll find in it, is that there is no one "Correct" answer to any of your questions.
A manual such as I've described can look a little daunting at first, but soldier on and you'll find its not all that hard.
Cheers
Jim

[Master Splinter]

Current equivalent is AS 1684.

http://mikestrade.sydneyinstitute.wikispaces.net/page/links/extract+AS1684+residential+timber+framed+construction+(simplified).pdf

Download the above, and use the Foxit ( http://www.foxitsoftware.com/pdf/reader/) pdf reader to read it (won't work in Adobe...or it will, but correct function means you won't be able to read it).

[J-a-y]

Hi Jay,
Is this practice for someday building the real thing?
Is it your intention that this model will be a trial run?
Hi Jim,

Short answer - yes and yes.

Long answer - I bought a small block (900sqm) of land in a village in north east Tasmania, it slopes about 25 degrees and has a level site area of approx 8m x 10m with an old caravan (the power, water, phone and NBN go past the front but aren't connected).
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/BlockNETas.png

At my place in Sydney, water got into the roof and rotted some wall frame, fascia and a timber window.
It was going to cost a fortune, but I found a builders supplies shop closing down and bought the timber cheap. The hopper window sill was about $120/$150 or something for 1.6m, and I got it for $20 (the owner was shaking his head), the architraves and all the other bits for the job, I paid throw away prices.
A bit of trial and error, with a cheapie Ozito compound saw, circular saw and with tools I had bought from charity shops, I removed part of an external wall, window and roof tiles, replacing the rotted frame, fascia, the lengths of timber that hold the roof tiles in place and rebuilt the window.
Rough, but anyway the wall is now stiff and it doesn't leak.
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/Laundryrepair1.jpg
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/Tilesoff.jpg
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/Tileson.jpg
http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx122/J--a--y/Laundryrepair2.jpg

The thought occurred to me, "Small block of land in Tas = small house in Tas", "Why not build a small house", "Hmm.. I'm not a builder", "Well.. build a scale model and build it as if building a real house", so I wondered where I could get some scale sized wood, I then saw billyt's scale house and realised I would have to cut the scale timber myself.
I bought a banged up GMC table saw for $40, the blade isn't 90 deg, the fence is bent and the blade was blunt. I straightened up the blade and fence as best I could and touched a 4 inch grinder to the blade teeth. She's hell rough, but she cuts. I cut the piers and some bearers but the saw was a bit too harsh so I went to look for a 40 tooth 205mm saw blade, they were too expensive so I bought a 180mm for $10 and I'm using that.

It's great fun but, will I build the real thing one day? I'd love to but I'll have to work out how much it will cost and if I can do it cheaply ($15,000 - $2000 for a shipping container, $3000 to ship it, $6000 to fill it and $4000 for incidentals).
Ignorance is bliss!
In the meantime, Thanks :2tsup: to Master Splinter, I'll work out where to place the piers.

Kind Regards,
Jay

PS ever heard of a Lurch asparagus peeler?
Google Translate (http://translate.google.com.au/translate?hl=en&sl=de&u=http://www.amazon.de/LURCH-Clevere-Spargelsch%25C3%25A4ler-mit-Halterung/dp/B00008WVSZ&ei=_JVTTtDWCKyfmQWnlLQH&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CCIQ7gEwAA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dlurch%2Bder%2Bclevere%2Bspargelsch%25C3%25A4ler%26hl%3Den%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D862%26prmd%3Divns)



Current equivalent is AS 1684.
:2tsup: Thanks mate.

[Grandad-5]

You've shown by your willingness to tackle repairs on your current home that you have the one totally necessary quality for thinking of being an owner builder. You're prepared to have a go.
Please continue with this project as it will give you great insight into the building process.
I've seen people with less experience than you, successfully build a house.:2tsup: