Lots of stuff in the mail today and I am stumped

[mike rolly]

Hello all,

Well, thanks to the great response I received from my first post, I will ask my many newby questions again.

OK, in the mail today I received my H&F vertical milling slide, a small vice and an EBay DRO kit. This is for my AL-336 I have recently bought, starting to realise that the lathe is the cheap part when you start buying suitable tooling.

I am looking at fitting my milling slide to my compound with three M 10 bolts to match the footprint of the mill slide. Looking at my DRO instructions, it seems I will do being a fair bit of drilling and tapping into the lathe for the scales.

Which brings me to my queries.

To tap a drilled hole, do you use a drill bit just under the size of the tapped hole? For example, with my M10 holes, do I first drill with a 9.5mm bit then tap away with the M 10 taps and tap magic? Is there some sort of chart which will point me in the right direction?

Secondly, after reading the DRO instructions, I am convinced it was written by a mad man. I am just baffled.
Is anyone able to give me some tips on installing my scales and DRO please? Is there a site that explains the function of a two axis DRO in understandable English?

Many questions I know, however, I really want to get these jobs done right the first time. I had a look on Google yet nothing I could find was very helpful.

Appreciate your patience with my ignorance :B


Mike

[Bryan]

If you Google tap drill chart you will find hundreds. Here's one example: Machinist Metric ISO Screw Thread Tap - Drill Size Chart - Engineers Edge (http://www.engineersedge.com/manufacturing/metric-iso-tap-drill-chart.htm). I'm a DRO virgin so will let others answer about that.

[Dave J]

Rather than me posting links, if you go to google and type in lathe DRO and then pick images you will get 100s of hits on installing them.
I installed my cross slide scale on the tail stock side, where some others think it is best on the chuck side.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=179914&stc=1&d=1314182064
Dave

[Dave J]

I forgot to add about drilling holes for taps, just minus the pitch off the diameter for metric, so a M6 x 1mm tap would need a 5mm drill and a M10 X 1.5mm tap would need a 8.5mm drill.

Dave

[Dave J]

These are 2 of the better ones and done on lathes around your size.
14 X 40 Lathe DRO (http://www.boysungrain.com/dro-2l.htm)

Bedair / Meister BC-10L DRO (http://bedair.org/Grizzly12x/DRO/GrizzlyDRO.html)

And Bob on here not long ago installed his
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/fitting-sino-3-dro-my-al1000d-lathe-136451/

Dave

[mike rolly]

Great stuff gents, thank you.

Google Images; just opened up a whole new world for me, excellent stuff.

Mike

[kraits]

DaveJ, i was having a look at this and instantly came to mind how much endless dribble am i giong to hear about the predrilled hole size and you come out with what you did, kind of stuff we were taught on day dot and im a boilermaker not a fitter.short and sweet.its incredible how people become so dependant on charts and are never tought a better way/faster way. only last week i was challenged by a 19 year old, that i couldn't work out if an ore car was square, little bugger had this lazer thingy but, only took me a minute with the old 3,4,5 good old pythagurus.Mr i know everythig never seen it before.

[Dave J]

My grandfather and both uncles are boiler makers, and I was taught that from a young age. When I worked as a builder we also used it, so it is widely used.

It's good when you can stump the young know alls with something so simple, LOL. I guess he never listened in math class.

Any tips for imperial? I still use my charts for them.

Mike,
A lot of places will give you tap charts for free, I had some from Blackwoods and recently got some from Smith and Arrow. Most nut and bold places also have them for free.

Dave

[kraits]

tip for imperialists, "switch to metric"

[Dave J]

tip for imperialists, "switch to metric"


LOL, but you cant help when you are working on imperial jobs. Or if your like me and a bit of a tight ar*e by picking up cheap boxes of imperial nuts/bolts, and use them instead of buying new metric ones.

Dave

[kraits]

i hear you dave and i quite often find myself sayinf things like " 1/2" holes every 25mm or 3' X 500mm.

won't be until the next generation over takes us and imperial measurments will become a thing of the past in australian's psyche.

[kraits]

Imperial units - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_units)

have a look at this and tell me imperial measurements are the way to go, thank goodness for the dude that come out with the metric system.(i think it was jesus) i just can't begin to fathom a fathom, perch rod, rood or chain.

[Dropcat]

only took me a minute with the old 3,4,5 good old pythagurus

That's how the Egyptians used to mark thing out, a piece of rope with knots in it. The 3-4-5 ratio has been known for a very long time.

[Dropcat]

tip for imperialists, "switch to metric"

Or deny reality and use decimal inches, feet and the like. It's fractions vs decimal, and decimal is easier.

[Charleville]

Or deny reality and use decimal inches, feet and the like. It's fractions vs decimal, and decimal is easier.


'Tis funny how long old habits take to die, if they ever do.


When I was a newly started technical instructor in 1972, we were being trained in the new metric system that was about to replace all imperial measures in Australia. We learned things like how, in Australia, "Celsius" would be used rather than 'Centigrade" to avoid confusion with a wood measurement of some sort.

Gee, that was pretty well 40 years ago and here we are still finding it easier to revert to imperial measures for some things but not others. 40 years represents two generations. I wonder how many generations it will take before we actually do adopt the metric system. Maybe that will happen when Bunnings stops selling Whitworth threaded screws.


.

[Dropcat]

we are still finding it easier to revert to imperial measures for some things but not others

We?

Speak for yourself, if I've got something in Imperial it's by accident, or it's an archaic hanger-on that doesn't matter much (router collets, camera tripod treads etc).

The world is metric, even the US. I thought a box of US-made powder was an odd weight at 44 pounds. Ah, 20kg.

Doing calculations with fractions annoys the hell out of me, it even annys that who actually like Imperial, hence decimal inches and the like.

I saw decimal yards once. Stupid system, good riddance.

[Dave J]

Yep, and we are still using imperial here like in timber lengths, 0.9 - 1.8 - 2.4 mtr etc.instead of 3 ft - 6 ft - 8 ft.

Dave

[Dropcat]

Yep, and we are still using imperial here like in timber lengths

You're going to be very upset if you ask for a 6' length. 1800 isn't quite 6'.

[Dave J]

From what I have noticed they are usually around 1820mm when you buy them.

Mike
Getting back on track, what DRO did you buy? Have you decided on where to put the cross slide scale yet?

With mine mounted on the tail stock side, I ran the cable underneath the and brought it out on the chuck side as you can see below.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180097&stc=1&d=1314325983

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180098&stc=1&d=1314325983

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180099&stc=1&d=1314325983

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180100&stc=1&d=1314325983

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180101&stc=1&d=1314325983

So the tail stock doesn't come in contact with the scale, I used and extended screw on the tail stock wiper so it hits on the saddle before hand.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=180104&stc=1&d=1314326219

Dave

[Dave J]

The way wipers are a good idea to fit onto your lathe. I found that sometimes I would get a bit of swarf stuck under the tail stock and it marks the way when you clamp the tail stock tight. After fitting these I haven't had any trouble. They are just sheet metal folded up in the vice over a piece of flat bar and I drilled/ tapped the tail stock to take the M5 screws.

To drill the holes for the cross slide reader head, I removed the tail stock and used a spade bit extension to extend the drill bit to reach, but a purpose made extended holder could be machined up easy enough out of a piece of round bar. The spade bit extension hole was a bit big for my drill bit, so I used some aluminium can wrapped around it to shim it up.

Dave

[mike rolly]

Thanks Dave, that is the way I hope to do it too mate.

Ran into a problem though, my scale for the cross slide is too bloody long.

So, I have two options, send it back and wait for the correct size to arrive, whilst incurring all postage charges. Or, cut the scale to size. I have removed the end off one side of the scale and removed the rubber wipers. I am looking at the glass epoxied into place. This worries me, I am very nervous about cutting the glass scale.

Any tips on doing this is very welcome!

RE: Imperial V Metric, the work I am doing involves firearms. Imperial is here to stay for some time yet, especially in the firearms world.

Mike

[Dave J]

There are a few blokes that have cut them down, but I wouldn't worry about it unless it's really long. What size do you need and what size have you got?
I would just use a backing spar behind the scale for support if you have room and let the extra length hang out the back, as it wont hurt anything.
I want to extend my cross slide but have to make up a longer lead screw first, but then I run into the trouble of needing a longer scale.:doh:

Dave

[mike rolly]

Ah, sounds good Dave, I will go with that mate.

With a backing spur, would I need it to be dead flat or can I get away with a steel flat approx 5mm thick?

Cheers

Mike

[kraits]

only last nightshift i asked a bloke to get me some m10 bolts, he returned with 3/8, says to me "same thing ain't it?", bless him the ignoramus but, if i wanted 3/8 i would had asked for them.

this nightshift coming im going to ask him to go to the store and ask the storeman for wooden welding rods, the ones used to weld wood.

might even tee it up with the store man and get him to give him a few lenghts of dowel. can't wait.:D

[Dave J]

Ah, sounds good Dave, I will go with that mate.

With a backing spur, would I need it to be dead flat or can I get away with a steel flat approx 5mm thick?

Cheers

Mike


I used a bit of aluminium flat bar I had here, but steel would be fine. On my mill I used steel angle to protect the scale on the front of the table, as can be seen in the link below. I mounted the scale strait onto the angle.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/installing-dro-scale-front-table-hm50-52-a-115786/

For the Z scale I used 75 x 10mm flat bar going down to hold the reader head and I mounted the scale just under the gap.

Dave

[Dave J]

only last nightshift i asked a bloke to get me some m10 bolts, he returned with 3/8, says to me "same thing ain't it?", bless him the ignoramus but, if i wanted 3/8 i would had asked for them.

this nightshift coming im going to ask him to go to the store and ask the storeman for wooden welding rods, the ones used to weld wood.

might even tee it up with the store man and get him to give him a few lenghts of dowel. can't wait.:D

Nothing better than a few practical jokes on the young blokes. Another good one is a box of welding sparks.:D

Dave

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Nothing better than a few practical jokes on the young blokes. Another good one is a box of welding sparks.:D

Dave

The new work experience kid has been told he needs to buy a set of metric screwdrivers. I said he'd be better off with Whitworth ones...

Maybe next week I might ask him to get me some chequered spraypaint.

[RayG]

I said he'd be better off with Whitworth ones...


I assume you told him to make sure they were for right hand threads. :)

Another good one, is to get the apprentice to go to the store and ask for a "long wait".

Regards
Ray

[Dropcat]

I've got two left-handed screwdrivers.

One is a ratchet drive that can only be use to tighten (I don't have the right-handed one to make the set), the other has the writing the correct way 'round.

[Dropcat]

From what I have noticed they are usually around 1820mm when you buy them.

Still not 6'. :)

[Dave J]

Yeah, they usually miss out by 9mm from 6ft, but close.
Also the sheet sizes are 1220x2440mm, thats an 4x8 sheet.

Here is a hardware joke for you.
Mick and Pat went to the hardware store
When they arrive, Mick tells Pat to go and get a 2x4
Pat walks in and asks the salesman for a 2x4, the salesman replies how long do you want it
Pat goes out to the car and says to Mick, the salesman wants to know how long we want it?
Mick replies, tell him we want it for a while because where building a house with it.

You may have heard it, but I thought I would throw it up.

Dave

[Dropcat]

Yeah, they usually miss out by 9mm from 6ft, but close.
Also the sheet sizes are 1220x2440mm, thats an 4x8 sheet.

Here is a hardware joke for you. You may have heard it, but I thought I would throw it up.

I'm wary of the 4x8's too, sometimes they're 1200x2400. Or at least they say they're 1200x2400. Ah well, it's not like a 4x2 was ever 4x2 anyway.

Been so long since I've heard that joke I think I've forgotten it. Here's another one:

Two Irishmen are working their way down the street, every few meters one digs a hole, and then the other one fills it in.
A woman watches them for a while, and eventually curiosity get the better of her so she walks over and asks what they're doing.
"Oh", says the first one, "We're planting trees, but Paddy who puts the tree in is off sick today."

[Dave J]

I have heard that one, the grandfather has told me these type of ones since I was a kid, I find there all pretty funny though.

Mike, If was to do my Z scale again (which is on the cards) I would use a piece of 40x40mm or 50x 50mm steel angle like I did on the mill for more protection. I have dropped a few things down the back of the lathe over the years and cringe every time. I would still use the standard cover, but have it in the angle.
I would then have jacking screws in each end of the angle to get it running true with the ways as the back of these lathes have a lot of bog and are not true. On my mill Y and Z, I used M4 grub screws as jacking screws, 1 top and bottom each end, which gives you all the adjustment you need and if your a bit off in height, the scale itself is slotted to adjust that.

Dave