Help needed

[toddbron]

Hi

I have been given a piece of Iron Bark and thought 'what do I make of it?' I also have a new 4 jaw chuck so thought I could make a vase of some sort.. The piece of timber is about 350mm high and I have turned the outside into a vase shape and now am ready to hollow it out. The only problem is that I think the piece is too long and heavy for the 4 jaw chuck to handle. Does anyone have any suggestions? Do I need some sort of rest to balance the end?

I have a HAFCO WL20 lathe with basic set of chisels. What else do I need. Thanks in advance for your help.

Todd

[bellyup]

Whew - Todd your going to get a good work-out trying to hollow end-grain Ironbark !!!
With out a dedicated hollowing tool/system you'll be lucky to get more that 100-150mm inside, leverage will be your enemy.As for the chuck - I reckon you'll give up before your chuck does :rolleyes:
If you want to give it a go then my advice would be: make sure you have a good solid spiggot that will fit into the jaws of your chuck, make the spiggot only slightly larger in diameter than the size of the chuck jaws when closed - this will give you the best grip.
Use the largest wood bit or forstener bit you have and drill in as far as you can at the slowest speed on the lathe - this will save a lot of hollowing with your gouge!
Make sure your tools are as sharp as they can be.
Make sure the kids are out of earshot so you can swear as often as needed.
Good luck and let's know how you go!
Bruce.

[vk4]

all of the above,If all you have are basic tools then you will have to get some beefier tools to handle hollowing this piece, I would look at the ROBERT SORBY hollowing tool with the interchangeable cutters.

This will assist you no end, .

Jeff

vk4

[Sturdee]

I would suggest that you get some shark jaws for your chuck, Vicmarc makes them which will give a much better hold than the standard jaws that come with the chuck, make a steady rest for it and some oland type deep hollowing tools.

Peter.

[RETIRED]

All of the above plus a set of rosaries particularly Sturdees suggestion of the steady.

The cracks are the biggest worry in my opinion.

A steady hand and oodles of patience will be needed as well.

[toddbron]

Ok - I have been advised to have a steady - what is a steady and can I buy one? I think the iron bark is heavy and long - I really don't want to have a iron bark adornment - if you know what I mean.

Todd

[bellyup]

Hi Todd,
Go on Carrolls Woodcraft Supplies website (usually has a link on this page - just click) than have a look a tools - deep hollowing - and you should see a couple of examples Robert Sorby and Woodcut have one.
If you have second thoughts, that Ironbark could make an ok mallet or tool handle.
Bruce.

[TTIT]

Ok - I have been advised to have a steady - what is a steady and can I buy one?.......... If you do a search of the forum for 'steady rest' you should come up with heaps of threads as there has been quite a few members show off their home made rigs over the years. Can be made from steel, ply, MDF or anything else you have on hand with a few roller-skate/blade wheels. Heres one to get you started (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/some-more-turning-jigs-140883/)

[thumb trimmer]

Hi Toddbron,

re: the steady ... see the link below;
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/redgg-ggg-gg-uuu-uu-ummmmm-124666/

I rescued a peice of redgum from a mates fireplace, only to find out that it was tougher than nails.
Imade myself an oland tool and a steady (aka steady rest); both of these made the job a darn side easier ... although I still had to sharpen the bit regularly.



... ... ...

[turnerted]

Hi
Since this is 350mm long ,I would cut it in half and make two smaller vases . Trying to hollow ironbark this deep would be a major undertaking . Better to have two smaller reasonable jobs than one big botch up.
See my Cedar Vase posting today . This is only 2/3 the depth you are aiming for and cedar is much softer than ironbark. My boring bar is 1300mm long and weighs about 2.5kg and I think this depth was about as far as I could go.
Ted

[Mrs Blackie]

As Turnerted said I would do the same otherwise you will end up all over the shop and pretty worn out lol. Turnerted I seen your vase fantastic love it can I have it? joke! :2tsup:

[jefferson]

Todd,

As many of the others have warned, this is not a beginners project. Certainly not one without the right tools for deep hollowing.

My suggestion is to put that piece aside for another day. When you are ready - and that may be two or three years away - re-mount and true the piece and take your turn at deep hollowing. It aint a lot of fun.

[Tim the Timber Turner]

Hi Todd,

I'm guessing this is your first hollow form??

If so do yourself a favour and don't attempt this project.:no:

Endgrain hollowing into dry Ironbark is not for the faint hearted.

The piece you have there is full of cracks, when hollowing this piece and the centre is removed, it can disintegrate and you may end up with lots of sharp bits flying around. A good wrapping of duct tape can remove some of this danger.

The end result, if you are successful, will be a vase full of cracks, and seriously, it will look like a vase full of cracks.

There is much too much work involved in this project to start with a crappy piece of wood.

Do your self a favour and for your early attempts with hollow forms, get some sound timber preferably something softer and green. You can always remount it when dry and finish it.

For what it's worth that's my opinion.

Good luck with your turning

Cheers

Tim:)

[bellyup]

Hi Todd,
Tim is pretty well on the mark - don't want to dent your enthusiasm but you want a better lump of wood. Try on the wood market in this forum and see if you can do a swap of some of the beaut inland timbers you would have access to (always,always HARD) for some of the softer costal timbers. If I had anything softer, I would send it up. Like you, all my timber is Acacia or something even harder!. I turned my first piece of Camphor Laurel the other week and I liked it!!! Maybe something like C.L., Cedar/s any of the Grevillias ie Silky Oak, N.G. Rosewood. Give it a try - it will only cost you $12 for 3gk postage Aust wide and you might get a lot of fun. Don't forget River Redgum - you'll have plenty in the dry creek beds
There might be someone here that might like to help or donate, these boys and girls are pretty good that way. Ask and you may recieve!!
Bruce.

[Grommett]

Todd I read this thread and then had dinner and a think. My advice, put it on a shelf in front of the lathe and contemplate it for a while. In the meantime get some experience end grain turning on smaller and easier projects and get/make the tools you need. I have a few projects staring at me and the time spent in contemplation is not wasted, believe me.

[TTIT]

Geeez I'm glad I started deep hollowing before I joined the forum :roll: With this much negative input I would never have given it a try. My first attempt was an unknown timber that could easily have been Ironbark, it was full of cracks and over 200mm deep. I bought a Sorby RS200 and had at it with much gusto. During the project I had to divert and make a steady rest and then ended up having to hollow from both ends to get the job done but I learnt a lot along the way and had fun doing it. Hollow forms are still my favorite pieces to tackle and I thoroughly enjoy the process, especially as my lathe and tools are a little more sophisticated than those I started out with.

In short, stiff the lot of 'em and give it a go :;:U You might even find it's your 'thing'!

[Avery]

Someone has obviously given up on it in the past.

Stick on the shelf for a while. Think about it.

Turn a few smaller and easier timbers.

Then do it.

[vk4]

When you are inexperienced it is better to ask than than forge ahead into unknown territory:cool:, even IRON BARK held securely on a good spigot, it only take 1 CATCH and you have an accident:-.We have all had them, but it is better to be aware of the consequences, than not.

All of the replies have advised CAUTION:), and tooling improvements , for safety.

My first requirement on any work piece is safety, I cannot afford to be injured by my hobby,even though I am no longer working,.

Jeff

[hughie]

It'll be tough going, but as TTIT has pointed it out,it will make you think and re-think again and you will learn so much from the experience. It will stand you in good stead later down the track.

Well with no challenge your learning curve will be darn near flat. The trick is to get out of our comfort zones and take on ambitious projects, push the boundaries a bit :U and go as fast as your comfortable with or slow for that matter. :2tsup:

[toddbron]

Hi guys,

Thanks for all the tips. I am an extremely green novice but want to learn. would love to have some lessons but being out at Charleville it is very hard. Does anyone know of another turner in this area that I can go and harass - I am good friends with beer and wine.

I think the cracks in the piece show character and I really like them but if it is going to cause them to be embedded in my skull it may not be so nice. I am going to make a steady and clean off the end with some forstner bits and then see what happens later. Any advice on where to access some easier timber to practice on would be appreciated.

Todd

[jefferson]

Todd,

You are in prime mulga / gidgee country. Very lucky. :2tsup:

If you fell some decent dead-standing logs and venture south to Kiewa (near Albury-Wodonga) over X-mas - New Year, I bet you'll trade some of it for lessons from the masters. Starting with Ken Wraight. Plus and Jim Carroll if they decide to come.

I again urge you not to try hollowing that cracked lump of ironbark. By the looks, your spigot is not the right shape for a start and you don't have the equipment to do the task justice.

Talk with Bruce (Belly Up) and Vern (TTIT) about what wood you should be harvesting and setting aside for the future. You'll be able to trade much of it for redgum, blackwood etc in time.

Good luck with it and maybe see you after Xmas. You can do the trip in a day if you try. And we like beer down here as well. 3 Vicmarcs to play on in air conditioned comfort.

[toddbron]

Todd,

You are in prime mulga / gidgee country. Very lucky. :2tsup:

If you fell some decent dead-standing logs and venture south to Kiewa (near Albury-Wodonga) over X-mas - New Year, I bet you'll trade some of it for lessons from the masters. Starting with Ken Wraight. Plus and Jim Carroll if they decide to come.

I again urge you not to try hollowing that cracked lump of ironbark. By the looks, your spigot is not the right shape for a start and you don't have the equipment to do the task justice.

Talk with Bruce (Belly Up) and Vern (TTIT) about what wood you should be harvesting and setting aside for the future. You'll be able to trade much of it for redgum, blackwood etc in time.

Good luck with it and maybe see you after Xmas. You can do the trip in a day if you try. And we like beer down here as well. 3 Vicmarcs to play on in air conditioned comfort.
wow - Albury Wodonga in a day - unfortunately I left the jet pack in storage - I think I need to go and look for some local timber - but from what I have heard Gidgee makes Iron Bark look like balsa.

Todd

[TTIT]

........ I think I need to go and look for some local timber - but from what I have heard Gidgee makes Iron Bark look like balsa.

ToddYou're in prime country for some of the best turning timbers in the country Todd - just got to know what to look for :shrug: . I've got some very good sized logs of Sandalwood that came from down your way and it's just about the nicest hollowing timber I know of. Have a look at the trees on my website and you'll find most of them growing all around Charleville too - not that far away in bushman's measurements. If you ever travel over my way I'd be glad to show the gear I use and give you some pointers.

PS: Gidgee is actually much nicer to turn than Ironbark as long as you don't let it get too old :;

PPS: Whatever you do, DON'T bother with dead standing trees :no:. You guys will be much the same as here where any dead standing trees probably died in the drought in which case they are so loaded with silica you can use them as grindstones :C

[jefferson]

PPS: Whatever you do, DON'T bother with dead standing trees :no:. You guys will be much the same as here where any dead standing trees probably died in the drought in which case they are so loaded with silica you can use them as grindstones :C

Dead standing trees dying in a drought doesn't equate with silica impregnation, Vern. Some might, but not all.

What brings you to that conclusion? Standing dead for a year or two doesn't necessarily mean covered in sand/dust/earth. And even then, we are only talking the exterior of the tree, not the guts. Once you get past the dusty outside you are into the core and free of it. IMHO. :D

[TTIT]

Dead standing trees dying in a drought doesn't equate with silica impregnation, Vern. Some might, but not all.

What brings you to that conclusion? Standing dead for a year or two doesn't necessarily mean covered in sand/dust/earth. And even then, we are only talking the exterior of the tree, not the guts. Once you get past the dusty outside you are into the core and free of it. IMHO. :DPersonal experience Jeff but I'm not talking about sand on the outside of the timber. Towards the end of the drought there were 3 trees that I had my eye on that died and I was able to get hold of. These were three very different species - acacia cretata, Soap bush (alphitonia excelsa AKA Pink Ash) and Bootlace Oak ( hakea cordophylla), but all had for some reason absorbed what I assume to be silica to the extent that they were unturnable. ( I base that assumption on experience turning timbers known to be high in silica and the fact that the turned surface of the Soap bush actually glistened with a chrystalline appearance ).
To give you some idea of how bad it was, I felled the bootlace Oak with a freshly sharpened chain and before it had made the second cut through an 8" log, it was as blunt as the back of an axe! I've since turned the same timbers from live-felled trees, both green and dry, and they are quite good timbers to work with.

[bellyup]

Todd,
Make sure you look on TTiT's (Vern's) website - it is a truly great resource and a goldmine of information for we blokes in the bush.
Gidgee is hard but the good thing is that you can turn it while it's green and as long as you turn it thinly (2mm thick or so) you can dry it in the microwave (gently) and it won't crack. In fact, most of our Acacias can be done the same way. This doesn't apply to endgrain turning, only crossgrain.

[toddbron]

Hi,

Well did my first bit of hollowing today - and it wasn't the iron bark. I had a piece of camphor laurel and made a pencil holder. Photos to come. I am glad I started on a smaller and softer piece. It was a challenge. Turned out ok. Something to practice.

Thanks for all the advice.

Todd