circular saw - ideas for new purchase

[Njoy]

Never used a circular saw. Want to use it for timbers, originally thought redgum for garden bed, but now have idea of using e-wood (recycled via Planet Ark, and is non eroding) they come in plank sizes the same as the redgum sleepers. But obviously are not wood, but are as tough as redgum. So I would need an electric circ saw to continue the cutting with power. To cut the lengths to suit my raised garden bed size.

Sooooo... would anyone care to suggest a hardy brand/model that is user friendly, and are you able to give me a price range too for your first choice - that would be really handy.

What should I look for when I go into the shops and start asking?
What to avoid?
Any other tips or things I should be aware of?

with thanks,
NJoy

[ecsk]

For your usage, I'd recommend either a Hitachi or Makita 9 1/4 inches circular saw, they are around $250 price mark. They now all came from China, my Japan made Makita is over 15 years and still running strong.
My only advice is stay away from cheap Chinese no name saw.

[Tool Cobber]

For sleepers, you're best to go for a 9 1/4" circular saw (rather than the smaller, more common 7 1/4"). Even the most basic 9 1/4" models will give you more power and a larger cutting capacity.

As for brands/models, the Makita N5900B is hard to go past - it's remained relatively unchanged over the years and is a favourite on these forums. It has a hardy steel base, high quality internals, plenty of grunt for your hard woods, and is sold by a large number of retailers so a competitive price is guaranteed.

[Handyjack]

If you have never used a circular saw and you are going to start using a large saw here are some tips.
They are wonderful at cutting - not only timber but also power cords,clothing, flesh and bone. They can throw debris long distances at high speed.
Obtain and use PPE - eye protection, hearing protection, face protection and dust mask. Enclosed footware with steel caps recommended. The saw will have positions for two hands - use them as it keeps your fingers away from fast spinning saw blade. Make sure that the blade has stopped before putting it down, and do not put down on power cord. The tool will have a blade guard, do not defeat its return operation.
The item that needs to be cut should be secure so it does not move when been cut. Make sure off cut does not fall on feet.
If you are planing to cut timber, do not run the blade in dirt, metal or stone. These items will damage the blade or worse.
A good saw in capable hands makes a job easy, but used carelessly dangerous.

Good luck with your choice and use wisely.

[rustynail]

Always had Makitas in the past then tried a dewalt and was very happy with it. Has been about 5 years now, used almost daily and never missed a beat. It is an alloy base pate, but very sturdy. I find it easier to control and line up than the Makita, particularly when used single handed.
Remember, the main thing when sawing, is to finish with the same number of fingers you started with.

[danny.s]

Hard to go past the Makita mate. I've only ever had cheap crap and now Makita. Will never go back to cheap crap.

Danny

[rhancock]

I've always bought Makita as my Dad has Makita tools that are decades old, so I have half a dozen pieces of Makita kit. However when it came to buying a 9 inch circular saw, I ended up with the Dewalt instead. They came out at the same price a couple of years ago, but the Dewalt just felt better balanced. From memory the Dewalt also has an alloy base plate which is supposed to be more resistant to warping than a cast steel plate.

As stated above, circular saws are incredibly dangerous, so take care - before you turn it on, step back, check you, the tool and the work piece are all ready for action. Particularly make sure that both halves of the work piece you're cutting are secure - neither should move during or after the cut, otherwise the blade may jam when one piece moves, with life threatening results.

[Njoy]

I appreciate your responses regarding my search for a circular saw for hardwood and novice user.
Especially the brand and price range.
And most of all the safety aspect.
I had been on youtube after posting my invitation for help on this, and saw a gruesome safety plug, for staying alert and learning the skill of managing your power tools. It was very graphic with a thigh being sliced by the circular saw because the operator wanted to correct his cutting without thinking.:o

Are there education DVDs or workshops held to help novice like myself?
Njoy

[danny.s]

Agree with rhancock on the importance of balance. When I need a big circular saw I borrow my dad's (builder for 50 years and has a workshop full of Makita), and it's great. I always used my own cheap 185mm because I had one. When it died and I bought a Makita 185 I was genuinely amazed at how lovely and balanced it was to use. Jobs that I stumbled with in the past became easy and enjoyable and all because I was using a quality tool.

Makita, DeWalt, whatever, just buy quality and it will reward you with great work.

They are more expensive but then again some of my dad's expensive tools he's had longer than me so it works out cheaper in the long run.

Danny

[rhancock]

Definitely go for quality over price - this is the sort of tool you only want to buy every 20 years, and you'll enjoy using it for 20 years rather than hating it for 2!

[Anodyne]

I agree Makita is a reliable brand, have both the small and large models-old Japanese manufacture.
One point raised is the blade binding. It is quite difficult sawing straight and freehand. I know the pro's do it easily but it is much easier if you can clamp a low flat and straight alignment board to the object to be cut. Measure the distance from the saw blade edge to the edge of the saw plate and offset this from the cutting line. This is the mark for the edge of the alignment board - clamp firmly to the object to be cut and position clamps so as not to obstruct the saw or cord, and do an unpowered dummy run. Use some sideways push of the saw against the alignment board. Stand slightly to the side of the saw cut. You need to get the sleeper off the ground, and make sure you won't cut the objects you are using as a stand. Make sure the cord doesn't hang up as you cut and DON'T CUT THE CORD. Watch the offcut falls safely or have someone catch it but don't allow the offcut to bend up or it will pinch the the blade. Finally use safety gear, at minimum safety glasses but all the others mentioned are good. The saws are very loud

[rhancock]

Good points, Anodyne, especially about the saws being loud! I use a saw guide to help control the cut. There's some photos in this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f174/kitchen-kids-74279/).

[Ratbag]

Never used a circular saw. Want to use it for timbers, originally thought redgum for garden bed, but now have idea of using e-wood (recycled via Planet Ark, and is non eroding) they come in plank sizes the same as the redgum sleepers. But obviously are not wood, but are as tough as redgum. So I would need an electric circ saw to continue the cutting with power. To cut the lengths to suit my raised garden bed size.

Sooooo... would anyone care to suggest a hardy brand/model that is user friendly, and are you able to give me a price range too for your first choice - that would be really handy.

What should I look for when I go into the shops and start asking?
What to avoid?
Any other tips or things I should be aware of?

with thanks,
NJoy

I'm going to differ in my advice to you.
Red Gum, especially in sleeper sizes, is a seriously hard and dense timber.
Using a saw even as renowned as the venerable old Makita 9 1/4" saws is really going to test the saw's capabilities to the max. In fact, for safety and longevity you really need to be looking at a larger saw, with not only more power at it's disposal, but more importantly greater cutting capacity.

I'd recommend a 10 1/2" or even better a 14" saw to give you the 4" depth of cut (and safety margins in capacity and power) needed for these big timbers. They are typically used by timber house framers in Europe for traditional oak framed building.

Makita make a good middle of the range saw in 270mm. (5103R) for about $500, and a larger and more powerful 355mm. (5143R) for about $800.

But for the quickest, safest and most versatile way to cut garden timbers to length, but yourself a chainsaw. While the cuts are going to be rougher than the alternatives, a chainsaw is actually, in the right hands, capable of a remarkable degree of finesse (chainsaw carving) and can be used for deep morticing and tenoning cuts impossible with a circular saw. As you're using the timber for landscaping purposes, your cuts don't need to be millimetre perfect anyway, and the saw can be used for a myriad of other tasks a householder regularly performs in landscaping work: pruning, felling, firewood, recycling etc.

[ian]

and I'm going to offer a 3rd alternative

your safest / easiest option is almost certainly a mitre saw
a 10" mitre saw will typically cut 130 x 75mm
a 7-1/2" sliding mitre saw will typically cut 300 x 52
buy from a tool store, rather than one of the hardware chains.
Mitre saws usually come with 60 or 80 tooth blades, tell the shop what you're cutting and get the shop to fit a suitable blade, probably one with a low tooth count

[hobbytrees]

Hi i have used a circular saw for many years , makita i find best ,
and as far as safety be allert.
my advice to you is to hire a small chain saw for the day cut you red gum
and bring it back at the and of the day , and use you makita for other jobs
as you will find the 225 will cut just a bit less then four inches , cheers

[rhancock]

Ian's idea of a mitre saw instead is interesting - I use my mitre saw reguarly, whereas I only get out the circular saw when I need to cut something my mitre saw won't do, or for cutting sheets.

The toss up is: A mitre saw is easier and more convenient to use, but a circular saw is more versatile.

The decision comes down to what you'll want to use it for in the future.

A final point - I have a top quality circular saw and a cheap and nasty mitre saw, which if I had to choose I would say is an ok way to do it. The mitre saw is horrible but it does do the job whereas a nasty circular saw is dangerous and frustrating to use.

[Handyjack]

Mitre saws are great for cutting/trimming lengths, and cutting angles up to the capacity of the machine. They are no good for ripping lengths or cutting material that may be secured down (or too heavy/awkward) to move.
A hand held saw will only have the accuracy of the skill of the user. If you are prepared to be out a few mm, and cuts not 100% right for angles than a hand held saw is for you (be it circular, chain or even hand powered).
The safety and operating precautions remain the same what ever you use.

[batcat]

Never used a circular saw.
same as the redgum sleepers. But obviously are not wood, but are as tough as redgum.

NJoy


I'm going to differ in my advice to you.
But for the quickest, safest and most versatile way to cut garden timbers to length, but yourself a chainsaw. While the cuts are going to be rougher than the alternatives, a chainsaw is actually, in the right hands, capable of a remarkable degree of finesse (chainsaw carving) and can be used for deep morticing and tenoning cuts impossible with a circular saw. As you're using the timber for landscaping purposes, your cuts don't need to be millimetre perfect anyway, and the saw can be used for a myriad of other tasks a householder regularly performs in landscaping work: pruning, felling, firewood, recycling etc.

+1
My first thought too was 'chainsaw'.... even hiring one for the job.

For someone who has never used a circular saw, hardwood + 9"+ saw is tempting fate IMO unless you have someone with you experienced in its use.

[Anodyne]

I agree that a chainsaw may be the appropriate tool to achieve the depth of cut in a sleeper however for an inexperienced user is probably more dangerous, ( read about kickback). If you go this way make sure the blade stays out of the dirt- it kills sharpness. Also a good idea to brush sleepers before cutting with any saw

[Ratbag]

Personally I believe a Chainsaw is a far safer alternative to a power saw.
I've been using both for over 40 years, and logged hundreds (over a thousand) hours of use.

I've never had a "moment" with a chainsaw yet.

Circular saws, however, are an exceedingly dangerous tool, as an exposed blade is revolving at high speed mere centimetres from your fingers. Most don't offer much in the way of hand guarding, not to mention engine brakes, clutches, quickstop, anti-kickback and other safety mechanisms available on even the most basic of quality brands of petrol and electric chainsaws.

Using a power saw at it's absolute maximum capacity on hard, dense "timbers", by contrast, is inviting disaster. I've had countless kickback episodes using a freehand saw. When the blade binds in a cut, which it will, all the 2-3 horsepower output of the motor, plus the inertia from a suddenly jammed spinning blade, provokes a violent reaction translating circular blade motion to sudden rearwards motion.

Manufacturers these days seem to be deliberately removing the riving knives from newer models of power saws. I interpret this as a cynical attempt at cost-cutting, at the expense of a dramatically increased risk of catastrophic lower body injury by users.

Chainsaws, in appropriate sizes, are specifically designed as a landscaping tool. A power saw isn't.

[rustynail]

When you say planks I am assuming about 50mm thick. Anything over that in hardwood and its time to think chainsaw. It sounds a bit heavy duty for a mitre saw. Afterall, we do like to keep the mitre saw accurate for that fine stuff.

[ian]

When you say planks I am assuming about 50mm thick. Anything over that in hardwood and its time to think chainsaw. It sounds a bit heavy duty for a mitre saw. Afterall, we do like to keep the mitre saw accurate for that fine stuff.the key to safely using a mitre saw for Njoy's cutting task will be fitting a blade with the "right" number of teeth. Hence my earlier recommendation to purchase through a tool store.
Whilst for typical use, a 10" mitre saw might use a 60 or 80 tooth blade, for Njoy's use the appropriate blade might have 48 teeth or less

[rustynail]

Its not only the blade I was thinking about. One must remember the bearings, wear and tear on the sliding system etc. Less teeth means the blade is working harder and yes, you do need less teeth to cut that sort of material. This in turn means greater load on the motor. Not exactly what a mitre saw was designed for.

[dakotax3]

Makita 5900B, 9 1/4". $5-100 secondhand. Cash Converters/Ebay/garage sale/flea market. It'll see you til the end of your days.

Thank me later.

p.s. I've just read Ratbag's post and invite new powertool users to read it again too. By their very nature, circular saw blades are prone to kickback, more so than chainsaws. So, keep feet, legs & power cord away from the rear of the blade. Stands to reason, really.

[danny.s]

I agree with ragbag. Whilst I have not clocked up the same amount of hours, I have built many retaining walls and a number of decks and an extension among other things. I have used 235 and 185 circulars and large and small chainsaws many times. I have had lessons in the form of kickbacks with circular saws, but have never had a kickback issue with a chainsaw. I am careful with both and find the chainsaw far more forgiving. My favourite saw is a small GMC petrol chainsaw (300mm). It's small and easy to use. It's great for cutting sleepers because it's light and easy to handle. Heavy, hard to hold tools are dangerous unless you really know what you are doing. In saying this though I always wear full face protection just in case.

I reckon the best protection for any tool is to find yourself an old hand at using them and get their help for the first job. In the case of dangerous powertools it's always easier learning from others mistakes than your own.

Danny