Roton US not replying

[Oldneweng]

Has anybody had any recent dealings with or knowledge about Roton from US? I have an order with them from over 6 weeks ago and have not heard anything since 2 emails just after the order was raised. I have emailed them several times but received no answer. They haven't taken payment yet.

Dean

[Scott]

I just did a DNS search on the domain name "roton.com" and came up with the following:

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Lochmoeller, S
[email protected]
Clearly Inventory
662 East Elliot Ave
St. Louis, MO 63122
US 314-775-2255
fax: 888-853-3363


Hope this helps.

[Oldneweng]

Thanks heaps for that. Another address to try. I will give it a go.

Dean

[Greg Q]

There may be something amiss with their site...But a mate has been speaking to them by phone in the last week or two. I cannot get any replies from Nook either.

Greg

[Oldneweng]

Their web site works for me. I can access my account including my order but they are not answering emails.

Dean

[Oldneweng]

Still no go. Tried that address as well Scott.

Dean

[Scott]

Sounds as though they're shutting up shop :(

I know it's expensive however have you tried phoning them?

[Oldneweng]

I have considered it but have not got to that point yet. At this stage I just want to ensure they don't rip me off as they have not taken my money yet. I am thinking about ringing the bank about preventing this but in this day and age I am not sure that is possible. I had an issue a couple of years ago with a trick type subscription to a site and the bank told me I had to cancel my VISA card to stop payments. I did that and got a new card but this is a huge step to take given the people you have to remember to tell. Actually that would be only my wife, but changing cards is a pain. Turns out the site that handled payment, which was probably owned by the same people (only guessing) was more use than the bank and they refunded most of the payments.

Anyway I dribble on. Will consider ringing but have given up getting parts from them.

Dean

[Chris Parks]

Why worry about it when with a phone call it can all be resolved. International phone calls are cheap these days, mine for instance only cost 2 cents a minute through Telstra. As a matter of fact I order very little online as it is better and quicker just to ring up and any questions are answered on the spot. The days of it costing a fortune to ring OS are gone.

[Oldneweng]

I will try but not everybody has continuous access to a phone. I work and leave home at 6.30m CST. That does not give me a lot of time to ring. I do not think work will allow me to use their phones and they are probably locked against international calls anyway. Not so easy.

I just checked my international call cost from telstra. Not mentioned. I guess that those of us who are not included in their 98% figure just miss out. Facts are that in rural locations some things are harder than in town. Those days are only gone for those who have the right plans etc. I love living here and do not regret the problems it causes but sometimes I get a bit tired of city people who have no idea what is happening.

When I wait for a call from someone in the city and they finally get in touch weeks later and say they have been trying to ring but I wont answer my phone I just ask what number. Many people have found my mobile number from other sources and assumed that it will work. I don't give out my mobile number for that reason. No it is not that easy. Actually I was going to try a fax.

The phone number given is a toll free number. I don't know if that will work from OS. Ours in Oz don't as far as I am aware. Try ringing a 13 number from interstate. Does not work. We live 7km from the border and do everything in SA. We use SA ambulance cover. The only number given is a 13 number. It doesn't work in Vic. We cannot ring them from home.

Dean

[Dave J]

Why put a email address on the site if they are not going to answer any? It shouldn't take a phone call.

Sometimes it can be a wrong email address, I was over talking to Brett at the Nuttall lathe spares the other day, and told him of the problem with people trying to email, he thanked me as he was unaware of any problems and will get onto the girl who maintains it to look into the problem.

Dave

[Oldneweng]

I have finally resolved the issue. I rang them on Monday morning at 6.00am. I have found out why they had not filled the order. They were waiting to hear from me to confirm address but I have not received an email saying this. I presume there is a problem somewhere in the internet that is blocking emails?

I asked for an estimate of freight and the answer given was way too much so I cancelled the order. I received a parcel from New York a while ago, was ordered at the same time. Similar stuff. $US105 for 16 pounds. Roton wanted about $US180 for 5 pounds.

Dean

[Bryan]

USPS medium flat rate boxes cost about $50 and take 20 pounds.

Edit: I just looked up Roton. If the product is leadscrew it may not fit. You'd think there'd be a poster tube option.

[morrisman]

USPS medium flat rate boxes cost about $50 and take 20 pounds.

.

Yes that is correct. If the postage quoted is too high, then ask them to use a USPS flat rate box . If they decline, then go somewhere else . The yanks generally overcharge for postage , often the postal prices quoted are ridiculously high. MIKE

[Oldneweng]

The piece I ordered was 3ft 6in long LOL. I added 6 inches when the site sales system told me I was a bit short of the $60 min purchase figure. When on the phone with them I was told there was an added $8 for extra length LOL. If that is that 6in I added then it would have cost me $4.15 to buy and $8 plus weight to post just because of minimum purchase value.

I only want enough to replace the cross slide lead screw on my lathe. I wanted a bit extra to have on hand. I am not going to ring them again. It would not matter if it was cut into 2 pieces but the $8 extra was the least of the postage cost issue.

I tried ringing a place in Melbourne that is closing down, re info from a thread from a couple of months ago. They had cheap, good threaded rod. No answer at this point. I am going to post a question to see if anyone can help with this.

Go somewhere else? Any suggestions? This is turning into a saga.

Dean

[morrisman]

Is this threaded rod for your NUTTALL lathe ? B & D Machining Pty Ltd: Nuttall Lathe Parts (http://www.bdmachining.com.au/nuttall-lathe-parts/)

[Dave J]

I didn't see any thread rod when I was over their last week, but lots of gears. You never know he might have some or make some up.

Don't bother with the email address as it's playing up, ring Brett direct on either 0249567898 or 0425218981. If you ring him on the mobile he will more than likely answer even on the weekend, and tell him Dave from Holmesville gave you the number.
When I was over their I did tell him about the email problem and he said he would look into it.

Dave

[Oldneweng]

Is this threaded rod for your NUTTALL lathe ? B & D Machining Pty Ltd: Nuttall Lathe Parts (http://www.bdmachining.com.au/nuttall-lathe-parts/)

Yes that is the one. I tried making some but too much slack in the cross slide. The tool was pulled into the material. Another reason why this is becoming a saga.

Dean

[Oldneweng]

I didn't see any thread rod when I was over their last week, but lots of gears. You never know he might have some or make some up.

Don't bother with the email address as it's playing up, ring Brett direct on either 0249567898 or 0425218981. If you ring him on the mobile he will more than likely answer even on the weekend, and tell him Dave from Holmesville gave you the number.
When I was over their I did tell him about the email problem and he said he would look into it.

Dave

You mean B & D Machining I guess. I will give him a try. Thanks for the info. Anything is worth a try but cost is a problem.

Dean

[morrisman]

Dean , have you made any progress ? I need a 12" length of the same screw ..MIKE

[Greg Q]

I just remembered reading about Horshpool & Romine in California. The guys on practicalmachinist have always spoken well of them, their products and service. I think guys rebuilding Monarch lathes etc use them with great results.

I might give them a ring tonight to see if they'll ship here, or via a US shipper, payment etc.

Here's their site: Horspool & Romine Manufacturing - Acme screws, special screws, leadscrews (http://horspool.com/index.html)

[morrisman]

I just remembered reading about Horshpool & Romine in California. The guys on practicalmachinist have always spoken well of them, their products and service. I think guys rebuilding Monarch lathes etc use them with great results.

I might give them a ring tonight to see if they'll ship here, or via a US shipper, payment etc.

Here's their site: Horspool & Romine Manufacturing - Acme screws, special screws, leadscrews (http://horspool.com/index.html)

Thanks ..please let us know how you got on with them ..MIKE . PS I think ROTON is a dead loss ...

[Dave J]

I just found that Wholesale Tool sell Acme thread rod as well, and they will ship here for cost. I also see they also have acme inserts and HSS already ground, as well as nuts.
Acme Thread at Wholesale Tool (http://tool.wttool.com/tools/Acme%20Thread)
http://www.wttool.com/index/page/static/subpage/static/images/green_bullet_check.gif Orders shipped outside of the Continental U.S. or Canada

Orders that require shipment outside of the Continental U.S. or to Canada will require a follow-up email with a shipping quote before your order is processed. It is our duty to ship the cheapest, most reliable way. If you have any questions, please contact customer service at 800-521-3420.

I am not sure what size Dean is after, but it looks like Mike is out of luck as they only have 1/2 10 for $11.00 for 3ft and $18.85 for 6ft and nuts for $2.40 each.
The first page is RH but page 2 and 3 have left hand.
Acme Threaded Rods (http://www.wttool.com/index/page/category/category_id/15941/name/Acme+Threaded+Rods/?current_page=1&results_per_page=20&order_by=&order_by_2=&order_by_3)=

This is the shipping page
Wholesale Tool | Industrial Machinery + Tool Supply (http://www.wttool.com/index/page/static/subpage/shipping_policy)

Dave

[Greg Q]

I have purchased from Wholesale Tool in the past and like them quite well. They only accept wire transfers for intl payment though, so that'll add $50 or so to your costs.

They have a discount code for new customers which I think is " newcus" and they currently have 10% off this week....the code for that is. Save10dec11

If you need a fancy DRO they have the best prices on Fagor 40i in the world.

Be aware though that the acme they sell is kind of a utility grade I suspect...although maybe I do them a diservice.

Greg

[Greg Q]

I just got off the phone with Lars Romine...nice guy. We had a chat about various things and he said that they are a small shop - they do sell small lengths, but that he said they specialise in making complete replacement leadscrews complete with all the features of the original.

They do thread grinding too on request, but it gets expensive in small qty's because their thread grinder takes 3 hours to set up. So you are paying a $200 set up fee for one part or twenty.

He said to email him directly, just put Lars in the subject line, with a drawing or sketch of what you want.

Otherwise he said that Roton might be closed or closing, and to try Nook in Cleveland. (His first suggestion was McMaster-Carr: he was surprised when I told him they don't ship offshore)

Greg

[raypat]

I had the same problem with Roton ( couldn't get an answer on shipping costs, emails ignored) and funnily enough it was for the same thing.threaded rod to replace my cross slide screw. If you don't mind metric I got mine from TEA in Brisbane. Not cheap, about $98 delivered for half a meter of 12mm rod and a bronze nut to suit, left hand thread.Friendly and easy to deal with.

[Greg Q]

I was curious so I did a bit of Googling this morning and revisited Nook's site where extensive information is provided on a PDF.

http://www.nookindustries.com/pdf/NookAcmeTechnical.pdf

and this site with another blurb on thread forms:

General Purpose ACME Screw Threads (http://www.ring-plug-thread-gages.com/ti-ACME-General-Purpose.htm)

The gist of it is that 2G is the basic general duty thread class for acme rod. What I think of as appropriate for vises etc. And better than a worn out slide screw by far. For those of us without a DRO on the machine however it is not accurate enough for high class work. The errors stack up like this:

rolled 2G is listed as 0.0003"/inch= 0.0036"/ft
milled 2C is listed as 0.002"/ft, about twice as good
ground 3C is listed as 0.0005"/ft about four times better again

Lars from Horshpool & Romine cautioned against too loose a tolerance on machines with long nuts. He gave the example of a 10 tpi screw running in a 2" long nut which of course means twenty threads being engaged. Any error will show itself quickly with that many threads engaged.

I don't have exact figures for price....I think milled is about 3X more expensive for twice the accuracy as rolled, and ground is more than 4X more expensive again.

I am a poor judge of the required accuracy since I have a bias to the best available (if I can afford it) and I lack real world experience in what is really required in terms of accuracy here. I think I'd be very happy with a 2C class milled thread form and an anti-backlash nut.

Greg

[Stustoys]

Hi Greg,
It would in interesting to know how consistent the thread is over a length. As long as its consistent I dont think the class will matter much as the nut could wear in. If it goes from +0.0003" to -0.0003" in an 1" that could be a problem.
Assuming 0.0003" is the limit most will be closer than that. So if you turned 2" off dia just using the dial you'd be 0.0006" out. Would anyone try that on a manual lathe?

You might want better thread class if you were using a DRO that uses a resolver on the end of the leadscrew and doesnt have leadscrew compensation.

I wonder if the finish on the different thread classes changes the feel or would that be more down to the bearings?

Of course I could be completely wrong :D

Stuart

[Greg Q]

Hi Greg,
It would in interesting to know how consistent the thread is over a length. As long as its consistent I dont think the class will matter much as the nut could wear in. If it goes from +0.0003" to -0.0003" in an 1" that could be a problem.
Assuming 0.0003" is the limit most will be closer than that. So if you turned 2" off dia just using the dial you'd be 0.0006" out. Would anyone try that on a manual lathe?

You might want better thread class if you were using a DRO that uses a resolver on the end of the leadscrew and doesnt have leadscrew compensation.

I wonder if the finish on the different thread classes changes the feel or would that be more down to the bearings?

Of course I could be completely wrong :D

Stuart

I guess the tolerances could stack or they could wander, depending on your luck. All they're saying I guess is that in any given inch you will be +/- the tolerance. Schlesinger described the method used to quantify and map error in a screw using gauge blocks.

I'm still trying to find a price at Nook on milled stock. The Wholesale Tool listings noted above don't list LH stock in the sizes I need.

Greg.

My DRO, if I ever get it fitted, uses a linear scale for all axes so I don't have to worry about that aspect of it.

[Oldneweng]

I got roton on phone and was quoted $US180 for 5 pounds freight. I cancelled.

I have not bought any yet but intend to buy it via Enco in US when I am financial again. I am after 5/8 X 8TPI LH thread. About $US 65 for 3ft plus a bronze nut plus freight. This is high tensile, not utility. I was quoted about $470 for a replacement from B & D Machining which I think is too much to spend on an old worn machine.

Dean

[morrisman]

Some of the acme rod ENCO sells is 2 start e.g, the size I need 1/2 -8 is listed on their site as two start .... Not sure if that is suitable for me ? MIKE

[Greg Q]

That Enco rod is utility grade 2G stock...I wouldn't use it on a machine tool. And you need single start.

What size do you need? I am going to order some good stuff in a few sizes so if my sizes match anyone else's I can split a rod. I only need a foot in each size but the minimum drop is 3 feet each size.

Greg

[Stustoys]

Hi Greg,
I assume you've thought of this but I'll ask anyway.
Have you priced a ball screw? I assume the price would be about half the price of my lathe but you never know.

Stuart

[Greg Q]

Hi Stuart...Yeah, I did think of a ballscrew but I have advice from trusted quarters that they aren't really appropriate for a manual machine owing to their tendency to creep or self-feed. Having said that I saw a King Rich cnc/manual turret mill the other day that had all ballscrews...it was silky smooth and the vendor (Standaco in Nunawading) said that it had no issues with climb cutting etc.

If I was going to go the ballscrew route I'd do my usual caper of waiting for the right thing to appear for a fire sale price (10% of retail)

If I was going to really upgrade my lathe I'd like a ballscrew z axis with a clutch at the headstock end and a variable speed drive with an ELS...dial-a-feed on the fly and instant threading at whatever pitch you want.

Then again lathes have been around for 150 years without such gizmos...and I do have that particularly good gear train on mine that lives in an oil bath so it'll likely last another hundred + years.

Greg

[RayG]

Hi GQ,

Funny, I also suggested a ball screw for Bryan's repair in the other thread, there seems to be a rash of cross slide repair threads lately.

The issue of backfeeding, should be simple enough to solve with a locking mechanism, something involving the gib would work.

I've had ball screws on the x axis of my mill for a while now, and have had no issues with backfeed.

Regards
Ray

[Greg Q]

That's interesting Ray...and encouraging. A ballscrew wouldn't work for me on my lathe I have decided as there is very little room for a nut under the cross slide; all of the ball nuts I've seen look pretty chunky. On the Z I am tempted.

The other project going right now is that Perrin mill which could use a ball screw on the X easily. In fact its going to get a stepper drive on at least that axis anyway, albeit hand wheel controlled.

Greg

[Dave J]

Hi Ray,
I was going to suggest it myself the other day when I saw a price of up around $100 for a screw and nut, but they don't come in the same pitch so I left it.

Dave

[Oldneweng]

That Enco rod is utility grade 2G stock...I wouldn't use it on a machine tool. And you need single start.

What size do you need? I am going to order some good stuff in a few sizes so if my sizes match anyone else's I can split a rod. I only need a foot in each size but the minimum drop is 3 feet each size.

Greg

This is the description of what I an going to buy.


Acme Threaded Rods & Nuts; Type: Precision Acme Threaded Rod; Thread Size: 5/8-8; Thread Direction: Left Hand; Material: Alloy Steel; Length (Feet): 3; Number of Starts: 1 Thread Size: 5/8-8 Rotation: Left Hand Length Ft. (Feet): 3 Length (Inch): 36 Material: Alloy Steel Material Grade: B-7 Number Starts: 1 Manufacturer Part Number: 5/8-8LH131A
I am not up with grades but this would be hugely better than what I have at the moment. This lists the grade as B-7. Where does this fit in?

Cost is important but if anyone has a better solution I am all ears.

Dean

[Greg Q]

ENCO lists their acme threaded rod as grade 2C for accuracy...which is the lowest grade for a centralising thread form. They quote 0.009" per foot maximum accuracy. Surely it will have much less backlash than what you currently have, but I doubt that it'll be more accurate.

You can buy directly from their supplier, Keystone at similar prices. Keystone's website does mention precision products which are grade 3C or better.

Greg

[Oldneweng]

Not planning on getting 5/8 X 8TPI I suppose. Guess you would be looking at metric sizes.

Dean

[Greg Q]

I am planning on imperial. All of the machines here are old. I don't feel like converting them now given the complexities involved.

I plan on getting 5/8" 8 tpi LH

and

1/2" 10 tpi LH

and bronze sleeve type nuts to suit that I can then insert into my old (custom shaped) bronze nuts.

Let me know if that interests you. If so I'll be happy to order whatever nut you want to go with your threaded rod. I imagine there's easily enough for three guys to share a 3' bar...just order as many nuts as required. In fact, I might just do that anyway and ebay a 1' kit with nut if no one else wants one right now.

Greg

Oh...My bud Mike and I will also order some larger sizes...I think 3/4 but I have to confirm that. There likely won't be any spare of that bar, but it is getting to the point that incremental shipping is cheap if you don't mind waiting for a sea container (8 weeks). Otherwise, I'm going to have it all FedEx'd by shipito.com, my preferred shipper for airfreight outside of economical postal limits, which this stuff will be. (since its not flat rate box sizes)



Greg

[Oldneweng]

I would be more than happy to put my name down for a foot length of 5/8" 8 tpi LH and the nut you suggested bronze sleeve type nuts is what I want also. I will PM my email address. Thanks.

Dean

[Oldneweng]

Next issue. My plan to fit the new section of thread is to bore out the remaining section to accept a length of the threaded rod which has been machined down to a suitable size. An interference fit would be best I think. I was then going to pin the two to prevent seperation. I have a 5/8 diam shaft at this point.

The Pin has to be surface level to allow the drive gear to fit over it (the one I have to make yet). I was going to drill right thru, say 1/8 inch, then drill bigger from each side for a short distance to form enlarged but surface level only heads. One end of pin could be pre machined. The whole then could be cleaned up with file etc.

I have thought about and rejected grubscrews. A spring pin could also be used.

Any ideas would be appreciated for discussion.

Dean

[Stustoys]

Any ideas would be appreciated for discussion.

Hi Dean,
Careful what you ask for ;)

I dont see anything wrong with your idea. If you had the gear you could silver solder it but that will just give you more problems. One thing you could look into is a tapered brass pin like the ones used on lead screws. That would of course mean getting your hands on a tapered reamer. I'm guessing that is would give you a stronger joint but really, how strong does it need to be(I think knurling would be the hardest work a crosslide ever has to do(?). If would make it easier to get apart, but how likely is that?

Stuart

[morrisman]

This seller may have what we need McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com/#acme-precision-threaded-rods/=f7vk8p)

[Greg Q]

McMaster Carr will not ship to new customers overseas, and lately they won't ship if they even suspect you'll export the goods privately. It is the most vexing thing because I'd probably use them for everything. They are the favoured supplier in the US. There's a long and stupid story behind that policy.

Now, back to your question about grafting in a new piece of acme...that's what I'm going to do too. There are many threads on Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web (http://www.practicalmachinist.com) in the South Bend forum about doing exactly that.

My plan is to do as you describe but to use Loctite to bond the two pieces together. The Loctite vendor assures me this will work.
Greg

[morrisman]

McMaster Carr will not ship to new customers overseas, and lately they won't ship if they even suspect you'll export the goods privately. It is the most vexing thing because I'd probably use them for everything. They are the favoured supplier in the US. There's a long and stupid story behind that policy.

Now, back to your question about grafting in a new piece of acme...that's what I'm going to do too. There are many threads on Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web (http://www.practicalmachinist.com) in the South Bend forum about doing exactly that.

My plan is to do as you describe but to use Loctite to bond the two pieces together. The Loctite vendor assures me this will work.
Greg

Maybe a friend in the USA can buy it for you and then post it to you .. They, McMAster C , haven't got the size I need in precision , it is only available in the general loose fitting stuff ...so I missed out again . Loctite is fine .... don't bother with the pins . MIKE

[Oldneweng]

Hi Dean,
Careful what you ask for ;)

I dont see anything wrong with your idea. If you had the gear you could silver solder it but that will just give you more problems. One thing you could look into is a tapered brass pin like the ones used on lead screws. That would of course mean getting your hands on a tapered reamer. I'm guessing that is would give you a stronger joint but really, how strong does it need to be(I think knurling would be the hardest work a crosslide ever has to do(?). If would make it easier to get apart, but how likely is that?

Stuart

Yes. Seems to be my lot lately and not only on this forum. Sigh. I never said I was not up for a discussion, which I usually get LOL. Maybe I should ignore more stuff and just go with the flow sometimes? Problem is I am to old to change now!

Anyway you are right about the required strength of the join except that as my lathe is worn the cross slide ways are a bit tight at the outer section to try to reduce slop at the working face. Just a bit more firm to move. I would have thought that a steel pin would be stronger than a tapered brass one.

The gear uses a woodruff key to stop it from turning but I don't know what stops it from moving along the shaft although it drops into a hole in the cross slide so it would be held captive by this to a degree.

Just went and looked. Machined face either side so just thrust washers each side would hold it. Remember I have never seen this gear. I have calculated its size etc and just have to make it now.

Dean

[Oldneweng]

Greg and Mike. I will give it a try. Now what diameters would be best? My shaft is 5/8 diam at the connection point. Would root diam of the acme be ok as this would give max strength to the rod portion or should I go a bit smaller to increase the strength of the existing shaft portion? I was thinking of about 3/4 inch long. My shaft has a section of root diam or so at middle end of thread about 12.5mm long. Used in turning the thread originally one supposes.

Dean

[Greg Q]

I usually eyeball those dimensions...about 2/3 of root diameter would be my scientific wild-assed guess. I don't think it would take a lot more than 1/4". Maybe 3/8"?

What kind of lathe is this?

Greg

[Greg Q]

Have a look at this thread. Its long, but covers all the ground you plan to tread...

Making a new Cross Slide Acme Screw - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/making-new-cross-slide-acme-screw-150571/)

Also this guy's site covers the South Bend repair in detail, and likely answers all of your questions. In fact, Steve Wells is reputed to be a knowledgeable, friendly guy. Maybe he has some 1/2-10 LH stock Morrisman??

Greg

[Oldneweng]

I usually eyeball those dimensions...about 2/3 of root diameter would be my scientific wild-assed guess. I don't think it would take a lot more than 1/4". Maybe 3/8"?

What kind of lathe is this?

Greg

It is a Nuttall lathe. About 32 inch between centres and, well it has a 14 inch face plate but a gap section that is also missing in action. Swing in gap about 20 inch.

Dean

[morrisman]

Have a look at this thread. Its long, but covers all the ground you plan to tread...

Making a new Cross Slide Acme Screw - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/making-new-cross-slide-acme-screw-150571/)

Also this guy's site covers the South Bend repair in detail, and likely answers all of your questions. In fact, Steve Wells is reputed to be a knowledgeable, friendly guy. Maybe he has some 1/2-10 LH stock Morrisman??

Greg

Greg, it's actually 1/2 - 8 LH I need . Steve Wells is worth a try ..but he probably won't have it . That is a great post on the Practical Mach. forum, by that TEX guy ...I saved it all to a memory stick . Just goes to show nothing is impossible ..but he's using good equipment , which helps . MIKE

[Stustoys]

Yes. Seems to be my lot lately and not only on this forum. Sigh. I never said I was not up for a discussion, which I usually get LOL. Maybe I should ignore more stuff and just go with the flow sometimes? Problem is I am to old to change now!
Just throw your hands in the air and go do something in the shed for a while, seems to work for me most of the time. :D



I would have thought that a steel pin would be stronger than a tapered brass one.

Steel would be better still, your comments on brass pins put me on track to a brass taper pins and I didnt get off lol
I think I'd go with Loctite and hope Greg's guy is right, if not you can blame Greg and add a pin later.:U

Just to throw another idea out there(thought possibly not for this job), what about a hole taped M3 or M4 with a taper tap run far enough through that a grub screw pulls up tight before it comes out the other side?

Stuart