TIG questions

[Stumper]

Hey people, I just bought a token tools alysync 200 tig, plasma combo. I got it about a month ago and I still haven't taken it out of the box LOL, great customer service from the bloke at token tools by the way and was happy to hand over my cash and it was delivered to WA very quickly. Anyway I just want to make sure I have some details about welding correct if you don't mind, I have bought straight argon gas, will this be ok for a beginner on mild steel and aluminium? I bought red tip tungstens for mild steel, white for aluminum and I bought some black to use seperately for stainless if I ever need to weld it, does this sound correct? I have a reg from a mig welder will this be ok to use? and 1 amp per thou of material thickness apply for all materials?
thanks in advance for taking the time to look at my questions.
Cheers

[bimbo]

I have bought the exact same welder. I am also very new to TIG so I could be way off the mark,
Staright argon is all you need for pretty much any TIGing. I bought Red and White electrodes - my understanging is that Red is for mild and stainless and white is for aluminium. The regulator you have for mig should be the same thread/fitting, I have been runnning mine at around 10LPM so make sure you can adjust it that low.
I was told around 30amps per mm thickness but also found that too hot - most likely that as I am new I am welding much slower that I should be.

There are people on here with much more experience who shold be able to give you better answers.
If you havn't found it already I have found a website called weldingtipsandtricks which has been a great help

Cheers
James

[Stumper]

Thankyou very much, I will give that website a look and thanks for answering my questions, good to know I wasn't far off the mark.
Cheers

[WelderMick]

Yep, straight argon's the go. Red and white tungstens are fine as you describe although personally I just use the 1.5 or 2% lanthanated ones (i.e. gold or light blue) for everything (aluminium, mild and stainless steel). Either of these in the 2.4mm size work for everything I've come across - I've never used the black ones (1% lanthanated), so can't comment. For your amps you will quickly work out if you are too hot or cold, but as a guide I'd start at say 65 amps for 3mm thick mild steel. Make sure you hook up the tig torch to the -ve terminal. Have fun with your new welder ! Cheers - Mick

[bimbo]

Red and white tungstens are fine as you describe although personally I just use the 1.5 or 2% lanthanated ones (i.e. gold or light blue) for everything (aluminium, mild and stainless steel). Either of these in the 2.4mm size work for everything I've come across - I've never used the black ones (1% lanthanated), so can't comment.
I plan to do the same one my tungstens have been sharpened within an inch of their life. I bought the tungstuns when I bought the welder and they sold 10 packs of tungstens with 5 white and 5 red. I got one in 1.6mm and 2.4mm. I definatly prefer the 1.6mm ones for thin sheet but I only have about 1.5 hours of bench time to base that on :doh:
I would also make sure you have a bench grinder or linisher as you will get plenty of practice sharpeing electrodes. I did a few on a disk sander and after those few the sanding pad was smooth as.

Also as a guage I was practicing on some 3mm aluminium last night and and found that around 60-70amps was good for getting the puddle going but not running away on you.

I would start on some 2-3mm thick steel with no filler rod and then once you get the hang of using the torch start to add some filler rod. Then I would move to some aluminium :U

Cheers
James

[Stumper]

thanks guys, I bought 3 of every size in the 3 colours so I probably won't even use the fattest one then HAHAHA, I have TIG welded 10mm stainless before when repairing exhaust diffusers in some gas powered electric generating turbines but that was pretty easy, I just V grooved it and melted them together on the first run then filler rodded on the second. Thinner material will be alot harder I assume, I am about to build a race car so panel work and fabrication with mild steel and ally in thin guage is what I'm about to tackle, I might practice on some stuffed panels first before I point it at the car LOL. Cheers for the tips.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

Thinner material will be alot harder I assume, I am about to build a race car so panel work and fabrication with mild steel and ally in thin guage is what I'm about to tackle, I might practice on some stuffed panels first before I point it at the car LOL. Cheers for the tips.

If you're doing panels, grab yourself a 1kg spool of mig wire for filler rod (I use 0.8mm). Make sure the metal is as clean as you can possibly get it, backside as well if you can, and your gap is nice and tight. Any little bit of rusty metal, or paint, or even a bit of dirt/crap on the backside of the panel will have you making a hole very quickly in panel gauge metal. I run between 20 and 25 amps on my transformer Kemppi when welding on panels, that seems to work well for me.

I just use a 2.4mm electrode with a needle sharp point on it, but you can play with a 1.6mm electrode if you like, may well make the arc just a little more focused at that amperage (in fact I may experiment with that this weekend, I've been too lazy to bother up to now!)

When you play with your practice panels, take note of how the heat distorts the panel if you try and run beads, generally I do spots here and there around the patch/join to control this. I've also taken to what the Americans call hammer welding, have a search on google/youtube for that one.

Re electrodes, I just run 2.4mm ceriated for everything thin and thick (ally and steels). Seems to work well, I do have some 1.6mm lanthanated which I've used on both ally and steel, but haven't noticed any real advantage to the smaller diameter when I've previously used them, so I'm too lazy to swap over collets now.

Have fun!

[Stumper]

Thanks mate, great advice, I will give youtube a look, I was going to look into 1 of those tools that puts a lip on the panel section thats cut out and then a patch can fit inside and be flush level with the panel and be lap welded instead. I plan to get the body medium blasted so to remove most of the crap but I will endevour to clean up behind anything I weld also cheers. Alot of the work will be firewall and tunnel mods and a cage. Thanks for the help.

[Jekyll and Hyde]

I was going to look into 1 of those tools that puts a lip on the panel section thats cut out and then a patch can fit inside and be flush level with the panel and be lap welded instead.

Personally I don't like doing patches that way if I can avoid it, because the two pieces of metal sitting against each other are a great place for moisture to collect, and then the rust begins. Have a good look at the seams and joins in most older car bodies (particularly 70's and earlier, but some 80's cars too), and quite a few of them are the starting point for rust, regardless of whether seam sealer is applied or not (in fact sometimes seam sealer appears to make things worse).

Often when prepping a racecar, you'll be scraping the seam sealer out with great difficulty, and all of a sudden a section of what appeared to be sound sealer will just lift straight off, uncovering a rusty join.

Of course its up to you to proceed how you feel comfortable, the method does have some advantages. Just be aware of the possible disadvantages too!



I plan to get the body medium blasted so to remove most of the crap

Sounding negative again here, but try and find a blaster that other car guys have used before, and has a good rep. Blasting has been known to warp every external panel to buggery and beyond when the operator is not as careful as they should be.

It also has a nasty way of showing you EXACTLY what condition the body is in - amazing how many holes can appear you never even suspected were there :C Not having to strip the paint and everything else off is pretty awesome though, especially if you've done it the hard way before :roll:



Alot of the work will be firewall and tunnel mods and a cage.

Sounds like an interesting project - guessing its a case of big motor, small car. Aiming for any category in particular, or just doing club sprint (or rally) type stuff?

[Stumper]

That's a fair point about the overlap joints, I may try and avoid that then cheers. I hope to find a good soda blaster company locally in Albany but workshop is first on the list at the moment as I have just moved and all my gear is 6 hours away in my rented industrial workshop. Drag car is the project mate, 408 tunnel rammed clevo into a TF cortina, should be fun aiming for 10's.

[Karl Robbers]

That's a fair point about the overlap joints, I may try and avoid that then cheers. I hope to find a good soda blaster company locally in Albany but workshop is first on the list at the moment as I have just moved and all my gear is 6 hours away in my rented industrial workshop. Drag car is the project mate, 408 tunnel rammed clevo into a TF cortina, should be fun aiming for 10's.

Avoid soda blasting like the plague!
Granted, it is kind to panels in the short term, but long term any soda that gets trapped in a seam etc will leach out and lift your paint as well as creating an acid that will corrode panels, (after reacting with moisture in the air). I was involved with building a race car and every one of the top spraypainters down my way would not touch a car, (or at best would offer no guarantee), that had been soda blasted.
The car I worked on was blasted with garnet by an operator that knew what they were doing and not one panel was rippled or damaged. I believe that walnut husks can also be used although I have heard that particles get caught in crevices and are an absolute mongrel to get out.

[Stumper]

Thanks mate I will look into that, gee I'm glad I asked these questions otherwise I would have made life hard for myself, cheers to everyone

[19brendan81]

Avoid soda blasting like the plague!
Granted, it is kind to panels in the short term, but long term any soda that gets trapped in a seam etc will leach out and lift your paint as well as creating an acid that will corrode panels, (after reacting with moisture in the air). I was involved with building a race car and every one of the top spraypainters down my way would not touch a car, (or at best would offer no guarantee), that had been soda blasted.
The car I worked on was blasted with garnet by an operator that knew what they were doing and not one panel was rippled or damaged. I believe that walnut husks can also be used although I have heard that particles get caught in crevices and are an absolute mongrel to get out.

Thats an interesting objection and Im not sure how accurate their objections are. Washing a soda/sand or otherwise blasted part THORUGHLY is the first step in preparing a panel for paint. This process would quickly and easily neutralise any residual soda and then wash it away.

Id say the sand blasting industry is producing spin like what you describe in an attempt to stem the popularity of soda blasting as it offers several benefits to traditional methods of blasting.

[Karl Robbers]

Thats an interesting objection and Im not sure how accurate their objections are. Washing a soda/sand or otherwise blasted part THORUGHLY is the first step in preparing a panel for paint. This process would quickly and easily neutralise any residual soda and then wash it away.

Id say the sand blasting industry is producing spin like what you describe in an attempt to stem the popularity of soda blasting as it offers several benefits to traditional methods of blasting.
Normally I would be one of the first to aggree with you on this, but in this case the information was not coming from the sandblasting contractor, (they also perform soda blasting), but rather from the painter/panelbeater. I guess the washing argument could also be related to cars used on salted roads - we know that they are bad news as one cannot remove all traces of salt.
To be fair I know that many people use soda blasting with seemingly few problems, however the people that gave me this opinion were unquestionably at the top of their game and quoted personal experiences as evidence.