Cosmetic repair

[morrisman]

hello. I bought a old lathe that has some damage on the ways near the chuck ( dont they all ) . There are some scraping marks where swarf has got under the saddle and some dents where chucks have been dropped . Hopefully, this is cosmetic damage only and it won't affect its accuracy ( fingers crossed) . Is there anything I can buy to smear over this damage and scrap back to get a smooth finish ? Some kind of metal filler maybe . MIKE

[Pete F]

Honestly Mike? Just stone down the high spots and pretend you haven't seen them. As long as the dings don't stick up they won't affect the performance in any way. Even if you did fill them in with something, you're still going to see them so it's a bit of a futile exercise, it's not like you can bog them up and paint over the top :wink:

Pete

[azzrock]

hi my hercus 9" has a shocking. bed damaged just like you have described.
i have been meaning to clean it up. i have found despite the rough looking bed it still turns very straight. hence not touching it.
got any photos.
when removing chucks on some larger lathes ive been using the base of one of those traffic polls. the tall orange ones with the black base. if only every one had a lump of timber near the lathe to protect the bed we wouldn't have to worry about it.

[morrisman]

A few pics of the damage ..the lathe is an old PREMO from the 1950's . It's built like a tank...heavy MIKE whoever owned this lathe in the past didnt bother with way protection

[Dave J]

Hi Mike,
I bought a thicknessor from H&F's years ago and when I was cleaning it up one day when I found one corner to have something bright in one spot. After checking it out I found it was what looks like solder or lead filler in a void.

Also when I brought my old Alba shaper home and cleaned it up I noticed the same thing in one spot on the bottom of the knee way.

Now how they do this I don't know and they where both small spots (around 5mm), but is looks like it is a technique used world wide for cast voids, because the shaper is from England and the thicknessor is from China.

This is only a guess, but it could be they drill a small hole then hammer a piece of soler/lead in their to make it stay, but I am not sure. If it was down hot it would need to be done before finishing the surface because of warping.

Dave

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi Dave
it would probably be whitemetal or Babbitt poured into the cavity hot and peened when solidified. This stuff work hardens and is wear resistant. I use it to rebuild worn brass bearings

Phil

[Dave J]

Hi Phil
They where both in spots that would not get much if work. I used the tip of a Stanley knife blade and they both appeared to be soft but that is as far as I went because they where doing their job and I didn't want to disturb it., Would whitemetal or Babbitt be soft like solder or lead?.
Your reply is interesting and educational because I have mentioned it a few times on different forums, but no one had heard or knew anything about it, thanks.:2tsup:

Dave

[Pete F]

Dave could it be lead filling as in the car bodywork style?

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi Phil
They where both in spots that would not get much if work. I used the tip of a Stanley knife blade and they both appeared to be soft but that is as far as I went because they where doing their job and I didn't want to disturb it., Would whitemetal or Babbitt be soft like solder or lead?.
Your reply is interesting and educational because I have mentioned it a few times on different forums, but no one had heard or knew anything about it, thanks.:2tsup:

Dave

Hi Dave
It is soft like solder or lead. Thats what makes it great as a bearing material. It's easy to scrape in and work hardens as time goes by. In the old days when you bought a new car you had to 'run it in'. Part of this process was to bed the new big end and main bearings in.


Phil

[Steamwhisperer]

Dave could it be lead filling as in the car bodywork style?

Hi Pete,
the only reason it might not be body lead is because whilst good in that application, on machinery, if there is a chance that heavy metal can slide over it, pilling could happen if it picked any of it up.

Phil

[Dave J]

Thanks Phil,
It sounds like that is what it is then. I do remember being along side my grandfather and uncles when they where scrapping bearings back in the day, but I was too young to know much about what it was then. I have also read many books on it over the years when I was right into doing up cars, but have never done it myself.

Pete,
Going by Phil's experience it seems it is probably either whitemetal or Babbitt as it sounds like it was a practice used, though who knows on the Chinese thicknessor, it could just be lead or solder.
Without a meteorology test I will never know, and I wouldn't dig it out to see anyway as it's doing it's job. It's just something I had never seen before. It was a surprise when I saw it on the out feed table on the thicknessor but thought that is just the Chinese cost cutting, but then to see it on an old English shaper it must be just a generally used casting flaw fix..

Sorry for the OT Mike, but it might give you some ideas to fill some voids. I have also heard of guys with marked mill table use JB weld and cast shaving to fill in hole, but they are still obvious to the eye, but don't get chips caught in them.

Dave

[morrisman]

Ok no problems . Thanks for the input and thoughts . I have done some more checking out of the old PREMO . One nice feature is: the bronze cross feed nut has a slot and two screws for taking up wear .... a nice idea . The cross feed screw itself displays obvious wear .. a new one is in order ..looks like 1/2" ACME . The machine is a bit of a monstor compared to the 9" Sheraton - but it is still Ok to move in a 6X4 trailer , just...my old XF felt it ! The top slide screw and nut is nice and tight ..hardly been used I would say . Half nuts are worn with too much slop ... will need fixing . It came with a 8" burnerd 4 jaw and a 6" burnerd 3 jaw chuck..all in good shape . Fixed and travelling steadies . The centre drive plate.. and a 10" face plate and a set of change gears for metric threads .. Haven't worked out the thread cutting system yet..it only has one lever on the gearbox. The apron hand wheel is badly worn in the shaft ... sloppy ..needs bushing or something . There is a chip in the counter shaft pulley ..bronze job . thats it ........MIKE

[Bryan]

Dave, I reckon I saw something like that on my shaper too. Can't recall where it was exactly, I think a mating surface but not a sliding one. At the time it made me think of the lead wiping I saw at the Holden plant on a school excursion in the early 70s. Phil's theory seems a better one though. Good to see you back on deck BTW.

Mike, I have to agree with the others - get rid of the high spots and use it. Think of it as character.

[morrisman]

I havent worked out how the spindle bearings are lubricated ..no obvious places

[Bryan]

Lathes.co.uk says:


Formed as a heavy, box-section casting the headstock was fitted with a flat, hinge-up lid that doubled as a useful tool tray - the opening allowing not only maintenance of the belt and gears but access to the oil nipple used to lubricate the spindle when the lathe was running in backgear. The engagement of backgear was by a single lever on the front face of the headstock which, when moved, had the effect of simultaneously disengaging the bull gear from the drive pulley and causing the other gears to come into mesh.

Could this mean you have to put it in back gear to expose the nipple(s)?

[morrisman]

Bryan..I think he is refering to the later VEEM built geared head version, made in West Aust. Mine is different . I think I found how it works ..there are two grub screws each end of the spindle , just next to each bearing ..I think you undo the grub screws and somehow lube it in the holes . the bearings are Timken tapers i believe ... thanks ..wish i had a manual for this lathe.... I think it uses shims to adjust the pre load on the bearings . MIKE