buying bearings online ? [Archive]

lather

28th November 2011, 09:55 PM

Any members bought bearings online, so far this is the cheapest i have found.

Metric Miniature Bearings:Ceramic,Miniature Ball Bearings (http://www.vxb.com/page/bearings/CTGY/MBB)

Only need cheap Chinese bearings, in case the project doesn't work.

made a big mistake, in trying to save money buying round bar, the project needed thinner bearings, which are way more expensive than the round bar which the hubs were made from.

Anorak Bob

28th November 2011, 10:20 PM

Hello Lather,

I was close to buying some bearings on Ebay this morning but decided to shop in person at Statewide Bearings, maybe 1.5 km from home. Other than being ridiculed for growing a beard, it was a better option than Ebay. Most of the bearings of quality on offer on Ebay had C3 clearance. I wanted standard. I ended up with a pair of Japanese NSK radial ball bearings and an NSK thrust bearing exactly the same as the original bearings Waldown installed in my drill press spindle maybe 3 decades ago. All for 25 dollars.

I have purchased a bearing online before as a result of being anal. It had to be a German FAG ( no comments) to replace an original in one of my mills.

The reality is that for most standard size bearings, buying a better quality bearing isn't that expensive.

BT

RayG

28th November 2011, 10:22 PM

Hi Lather,

I've bought bearings from those guy's VXB, no problems at all... good service.

Well, except, they keep sending me those crappy free digital calipers... :rolleyes:

Regards
Ray

jhovel

28th November 2011, 11:09 PM

It may interest someone to learn that there are NO ballbearing manufacturing facilities in Germany anymore..... and NONE are marked (nor allowed to be) with "Made in Gemany" any more. All German bearing manufacturers do ALL their manufacture in China. Go figure. A few specialist bearings - synthetic materis etc. are still made in Germany apparently.
Good Australian ironore in German bearings after all....
However, to mislead unsuspecting buyers, there is apparently a Chinese bearing manufacturer with a registered company name of "German" - this allows tool manufacturers to advertise that their equipment is fitted with German bearings....
Not unlike the Japanese town of USA of old which was able to manufacture goods "made in USA"....
Cheeky... but all legal.

Joe

simonl

29th November 2011, 07:01 AM

.RC.

29th November 2011, 07:05 AM

Austria is not germany. ;)

simonl

29th November 2011, 08:28 AM

Austria is not germany. ;)

Point taken. phew!

chambezio

29th November 2011, 09:06 AM

For my two bobs worth.........I am always amazed at the low cost of bearings! OK I usually use smallish ones, but really when its all said and done the work that goes into a bearing and the precision that is needed they really are value for money (cheap). On the other side of the coin when you have to pay some one to do surgery on a part to replace a worn/broken bearing why would you use a "suspect" quality bearing at a slightly cheaper purchase price over a good branded recognised one. Japanese made bearings have passed the test of time and are regarded as good ones to use.
This may be a simplistic view but it is such a nice feeling when you go into your favourite bearing specialty shop and either give them a number for a particular bearing or give them the old one to reference off. They usually ask what it was off and then give you some advise on using the new replacement.
I do buy some stuff on line from our Oriental neighbours but bearings are something I would rather buy local and support the local dealer at least. Its another excuse to go into the Alladins cave of another world of tools and accessories that ordinarily you would not have occasion to visit.

RayG

29th November 2011, 01:50 PM

At the risk of going too far off-topic, many companies manufacture in China and produce top quality product. The example of German manufacturers setting up factories in China means that the quality control and production processes are specified and controlled by the German company..

I can give some examples, iphones are all made in China. I'm sure Apple is doing the quality control.. :) ( fake batteries aside! )

The Krupps steel mill in Dortmund was moved to China, and I spent some time looking over the site not long after it was relocated, the Chinese cut up the blast furnaces and carefully labelled all the parts and re-assembled it in China, the guy who I talked to used to work at the old Krupps Steel mill, and told me the re-assembled blast furnace was now working better in China than it ever did in Dortmund. They did some upgrades and re-furbishment in the moving process.

So, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss all Chinese made bearings as inferior, you can get as good as you are happy to pay for.

Regards
Ray

lather

29th November 2011, 02:20 PM

If replacing bearings on existing machinery, i would purchase Japanese bearings.
due to this project, being a prototype, with the possibility of failure, it needs to be done as cheap as possible.
Without saying what the project is, it will need about 40 bearings, just to test a basic build, for proof of principle, if it works, there will need to be more of there units, combined into the system, with each extra unit needing about 24 bearings.
even using the cheap bearings, the price adds up.

the quotes for the remaining 24 bearings needed, just for the proof of principle device is
about $228 for Chinese bearings from a local store.
the Japanese were $510.

to purchase the cheap bearings over the net, from the USA is about $91 plus $52 to ship them. 142.65 all up, it's still much cheaper than local.
shame about the shipping, it's more than half the cost of the product, but still cheaper than buying here.
can't figure out why the Chinese bearings sold in the USA, are more than half the price here in OZ.

apparently the Japanese bearings are made in Korea.

had considered using 6011-2rs bearings, the Chinese cost $17 + GST, the Japanese were $83 + gst, definitely wont be using this size, most of the other Japanese bearings are about double the price, but this bearing size is about 5 times the Chinese price.

RayG

29th November 2011, 02:32 PM

Hi Lather,

I've got two suggestions for you..

First.. use shipito USA Address & Mail Forwarding (http://www.shipito.com/) to handle the shipping from the US. Use the Oregon warehouse address, to eliminate the American state sales tax.

Second... Sell the free digital calipers on ebay.. :D

Regards
Ray

Machtool

29th November 2011, 03:29 PM

the Japanese were $83 + gst,
Who’s quoting you those sort of prices on a 6011 2RS? Let me guess, CBC. That’s a rude price. Especially on 2 dozen. I just rang my supplier, my buy price is $24 + GST for Japanese NSK.

I’d second Ray’s suggestion of Shipito. I’ve been using it also.

Phil.

jhovel

29th November 2011, 07:46 PM

.......So, I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss all Chinese made bearings as inferior.....
Regards
Ray
Just to clarify, Ray et al: I don't believe I mentioned anything about quality of Chinese manufactured bearings.

To reiterate something that started a flamewar on a US forum a while back:
The Chinese quality goods manufacturers don't advertise their goods on eBay - just like the European and US ones don't.
If you really want to compare - say - USA quality with Chinese quality, compare the cheap crap sold by US manufacturers on eBay with cheap crap Chinese manufacturers sell on eBay.....

Joe

lather

29th November 2011, 08:51 PM

Phil your correct, it was CBC.

got a quote from stateside bearings, which was comparable to the US price when including the delivery charge,
decided to use the 6010-2rs instead of he 6011, mainly due to the diameter of the steel needed.
didn't ask for a quote for the 6011 from stateside.

this whole project has just turned into a catch 22 situation, using the larger cheaper bearings, now makes it expensive to purchase the round bar needed for a larger diameter hub and flange.
trying to buy a 120mm bar off-cut in itself is difficult,
to overcome this issue, decided to use seamless pipe, and managed to find some short offcuts, but more is needed.
these now need 120mm flanges welded to them, the only cheap material which i can purchase, are scrap metal off cut disks which were plasma cut, hate machining this crap, makes me wonder if the hammering action due to the broken cuts is damaging the lathe.
(should the gibs be tightened a little more when machining rough and broken material?)
also the welding will warp the hubs, so probably need to first machine them oversize, and re machine after welding.

prefer to stick with the original plan as it's an easier build, using the 6804, 20 x 32x7, and the 6808, 40x52x7 bearings, the 90mm round bar was suitable for the largest hub and flange, for some strange reason these are about the same price on the VBX site, as in store.

the main hassle with the project is that it contains a hub running on a shaft, which then has a secondary hub running on the first hub.

Ray, will look into how much cheaper the postage is using USA Address & Mail Forwarding, if it,s only slightly cheaper may purchase from statewide.

do any Chinese suppliers sell direct to the public ?

RayG

29th November 2011, 09:14 PM

do any Chinese suppliers sell direct to the public ?

Try FAG deep groove ball bearing 6010-2RS - Detailed info for FAG deep groove ball bearing 6010-2RS,deep groove ball bearing ,FAG deep groove ball bearing 6010-2RS,6010-2RSR-C3 on Alibaba.com (http://jnkm.en.alibaba.com/product/479268417-209756532/FAG_deep_groove_ball_bearing_6010_2RS.html)

I picked that one (FAG 6010-2RS) to re-inforce Joe's point about German bearings, I think Germany is a suburb of Shanghai ... :)

Regards
Ray

lather

29th November 2011, 09:17 PM

ray, does that site allow small orders

RayG

29th November 2011, 09:19 PM

Hi Lather,

Just for fun, I've asked for a quote on 100x 6010-2RS, I'll let you know when I get a reply.

Regards
Ray

lather

29th November 2011, 09:24 PM

dam, tried to find the 6808 and 6804 bearings, doesn't come up in the search, if i could get these cheap it would save a lot of hassle.

Pete F

29th November 2011, 11:30 PM

Who’s quoting you those sort of prices on a 6011 2RS? Let me guess, CBC. That’s a rude price. Especially on 2 dozen. I just rang my supplier, my buy price is $24 + GST for Japanese NSK.

I’d second Ray’s suggestion of Shipito. I’ve been using it also.

Phil.

CBC are expensive for bearings? I didn't know that, thanks for that as it's who I normally buy from if I buy locally. I'll shop around more next time. I've always considered them expensive, but thought it was just the normal Aussie retail reaming.

Pete

Greg Q

29th November 2011, 11:44 PM

CBC bearings is my go-to shop for determining the absolute maximum price even the rudest, most arrogant seller dares ask for an item. Thus armed with what I can confidently call the world's highest price I can then go shopping online. On my drill press rebuild they were 55% higher than my eventual supplier, and they were peddling no-name China (I bought SKF).

Greg

I just checked their webpage to see their mission statement:

"CBC is committed to providing our customers with the highest quality products and services.
Mission Statement is:

"To be a better distributor of bearings and power transmission than any other company in the world by providing superior products and innovative service"

Fail.

lather

30th November 2011, 12:54 AM

Greg Q

30th November 2011, 01:15 AM

The price differences are huge,
the quotes for certain cheap Chinese bearings from different local suppliers
were
from CBC
6004 $6 +gst
6008 $12 +gst
6204 $7+gst
6010 $16 +gst
other store
6004 $3:50 +gst
6008 $8+gst
6204 $3:50+gst
6010 $8+gst

even stranger was that 6010 was $2 more from the same company but different branch.

found the same unusual problem when buying steel from a certain supplier, the price difference from one sales man to another on average can be 50% higher, at times it was almost double, had a written quote once and queried
why such a huge price increase from the previous days quote, the reason was that it depended on if i was a regular customer.
Now i always make sure i go to the salesman who gives the better deal.
At times this is not possible, so need to waste time around the place until he is at the counter.

Some years ago I went into my local tool purveyor to buy a thousand dollar vacuum cleaner. When I asked the salesman about a better price he flipped out, informing me that he wanted to charge me retail plus 10% because I wasn't trade. I told told the manager that I had a wad of hundreds that he'd never see owing to twatish behaviour. I've never, ever been back. But I have spent several thousand elsewhere on similar stock.

It honestly beats me how companies expect their customer base to remain loyal even after the daily beatings.

Auskart

30th November 2011, 07:08 AM

Have found the same problem at Hare and Forbes in Sydney, pick the right salesman and he will always knock a little bit off the price, even though they are fairly pricey to start with.

Hunch

30th November 2011, 07:34 AM

Try FAG deep groove ball bearing 6010-2RS - Detailed info for FAG deep groove ball bearing 6010-2RS,deep groove ball bearing ,FAG deep groove ball bearing 6010-2RS,6010-2RSR-C3 on Alibaba.com (http://jnkm.en.alibaba.com/product/479268417-209756532/FAG_deep_groove_ball_bearing_6010_2RS.html)

I picked that one (FAG 6010-2RS) to re-inforce Joe's point about German bearings, I think Germany is a suburb of Shanghai ... :)

Regards
Ray

Not to say it's the case here, the Chinese form on packaging counterfeit Bosch stuff (in particular), virtually indistinguishable until function comes into play, would have me treading warily.

Do wonder how a lot of the legitimate Chinese stuff is sold here as well, seems to be a contravention of packaging laws - unless that's changed in the last few years.

CBC are expensive for bearings? I didn't know that, thanks for that as it's who I normally buy from if I buy locally. I'll shop around more next time. I've always considered them expensive, but thought it was just the normal Aussie retail reaming.

Pete

Advance out at Blacktown are probably a better proposition for a shop front. Even with an account and discount, CBC aren't the cheapest...proximity the biggest factor for us.

On my drill press rebuild they were 55% higher than my eventual supplier, and they were peddling no-name China (I bought SKF).

SKF are producing far and wide now too, I've heard some mutterings about the Sth American bearings not being as good as days of yore, you do notice they've cheapened the cages on some, but can't imagine that would have much effect on lifespan.

Dave J

30th November 2011, 09:34 AM

When I was over at SKF talking to a guy that has worked with them for over 20 years, he told me they are setting up in China, but under their control for materials etc. He said they where not closing down any other plants at this stage, but needed to do it to keep up with everyone else on prices.

My views are I don't think it will be long before they do close some others down, because lets face it, why would you keep producing bearings that cost more in a curtain country, when you can make the same thing cheaper in China. Unless they stagger what bearings will be made where, like the cheaper general explorer series might get made in China, but thats purely speculation on my part.

I see there has been reference to German made bearings, the bearings I picked up last year had made in Germany on some, I forget what the others had on them but can check because I still have some.

Dave

Pete F

30th November 2011, 10:51 AM

Not unlike the Japanese town of USA of old which was able to manufacture goods "made in USA"....
Cheeky... but all legal.

Joe

Joe, quite OT but just to burst an myth that the yanks love to get worked up about, yes there is a region in Japan that coincidentally happens to be called "Usa", it's been there since Mosses was whittling sticks. About the only thing manufactured there are urban myths. More here
Usa, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usa,_%C5%8Cita)

Pete

RayG

30th November 2011, 02:47 PM

Hi Lather,

Just for fun, I've asked for a quote on 100x 6010-2RS, I'll let you know when I get a reply.

Regards
Ray

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/479268417/FAG_deep_groove_ball_bearing_6010_2RS.jpg

Ok, got a price from "Wendy".... $1.99 ea 6010-2RSR FAG Made in Germany... ahem... yeah right! :roll:

I didn't ask for a 1000x price, but the range is $1.50...$2.50, so a 1000x price might be closer to $1.50

Regards
Ray

.RC.

30th November 2011, 03:36 PM

I have bought from over the phone from Brisbane Bearings, located in ...guess where...

It was a special bearing I needed for a hay rake (special in odd size)... genuine list was over $60... Brisbane bearing was under $10...

http://www.brisbanebearings.com/

Greg Q

30th November 2011, 05:23 PM

http://i01.i.aliimg.com/photo/v0/479268417/FAG_deep_groove_ball_bearing_6010_2RS.jpg

Ok, got a price from "Wendy".... $1.99 ea 6010-2RSR FAG Made in Germany... ahem... yeah right! :roll:

I didn't ask for a 1000x price, but the range is $1.50...$2.50, so a 1000x price might be closer to $1.50

Regards
Ray

That sure looks like a genuine German made bearing and packaging. Who knows? I don't personally care where an item is made as long as it is specified and overseen by competent engineers as opposed to bottom-of-the-barrel buyers.

simonl

30th November 2011, 06:01 PM

Last year I bought some precision bearings. I searched the world for the best quality and price. Biggest difference was:
Brisbane Bearings:
FAG 30212P5 $450 ea

Accurate Bearings:
FAG 30212P5 US $138 ea + $60 shipping

The Local CBC bearing place took 2 weeks to tell me they could not get them in.

It pays to do the homework!

Cheers,

Simon

RayG

30th November 2011, 09:41 PM

That sure looks like a genuine German made bearing and packaging. Who knows? I don't personally care where an item is made as long as it is specified and overseen by competent engineers as opposed to bottom-of-the-barrel buyers.

Hi GQ,

This is a complex can of worms, I agree with you in that, I see no problem with anyone making a product of whatever quality they like, as long as it's not misrepresnted as something it's not.

Making fake bearings is an open door to the unscrupulous resellers to rip off unsuspecting customers, I'd bet that a lot of "name" brand bearings sold by the trade are in fact fakes, and the reseller pockets the exhorbitant profit. It may well be the bearings are actually good quality and do the job perfectly, but it's still a dishonest rip-off.... surely the local dealers wouldn't do that to us..... would they...

I remember a conversation with the local BSC guy, talking about fake SKF bearings where he claimed that even the SKF technical people couldn't tell the difference between the fakes and the real ones, they had to get metallurgical tests done to tell which was the fake..

Caveat emptor indeed.

Regards
Ray

jhovel

30th November 2011, 09:55 PM

Pete F: thanks for clearing up the myth I got sucked into. Usa, Japan exists since the 8th Century, USA since 1787... The people of Usa could sue the US for copyright breach :)

Joe

Greg Q

30th November 2011, 10:15 PM

Counterfeits are indeed an unforgivable sin as their are many mission critical applications for things like bearings.

I used to fly Convair 580 aircraft which were a favourite target of counterfeiters for critical attachment bolts and brackets. Two of the aircraft that I used to fly crashed killing all aboard a couple of years after I stopped flying them. In both cases fake stabiliser attach brackets were the cause.

RayG

30th November 2011, 10:33 PM

Hi GQ,

I wrote a long rant about corporations being more and more concerned about maximizing shareholder returns than sound engineering practices.... but then I deleted it all, having decided that this is not really the right place or an appropriate forum for such issues...

I hope that the companies who sold the fake aircraft parts were sued with vigor and now all living in cardboard boxes under a bridge somewhere...

Regards
Ray

Greg Q

30th November 2011, 10:42 PM

I never heard the results of any investigation into either crash. One occurred in the US so you'd imagine the FBI would have had a go at it. The problem is that the aircraft are not supported by a formal parts supply from the OEM, so traceability becomes an issue. A lot of these things appear on the used parts networks and criminals will do their best to insert parts into an otherwise legitimate supply chain.

Helicopters suffer the same problem...many dead people got that way owing to fake blade retention nuts. That said their are plenty of genuine parts that are duds too...a lot of RR components seem that way lately.

Pete F

30th November 2011, 10:42 PM

The people of Usa could sue the US for copyright breach :)

Joe

Ha ha, man I laughed when I read that. Now THAT would be an interesting twist to the story!

I agree, if you buy cheap and get cheap that's one thing. When you think you're buying quality and get cheap that's another thing entirely. Not that it seems to stop the myriad current company executives doing just that, in "cashing" in a company's quality name and substituting poor quality products. By the time the public realises what's happened, the executives have taken their bonuses and shot through. Nobody in the Western World is interested in running a company nor making anything these days, unless of course it's the possibility of a quick buck!

Pete

lather

30th November 2011, 11:24 PM

This gets confusing, are the cheaper Chinese made(which were originally japanese ,European, USA brand names) actually genuine, or are they fake,
just found this about fake bearings hitting the market, and seems as if it was a stunt pulled by SKF and SCHAEFFLER to gain market share, as well as collusion by certain bearing companies.
there is an example of certain bearing manufacturers, buying bearings that have no country of Origin or Branding from a 3rd world country , but packed in a box e.g. NKE stating that it was made in Austria.

News Updates (http://bearingcode.com/Update1.html)

SKFFAGINABS: Fake Stories as a Marketing Strategy (http://skffaginabs.blogspot.com/2009/03/product-piracy-made-in-germany.html)

now if only i had the funds to open a bearing supply store.

Stustoys

1st December 2011, 12:44 AM

Hi Greg,

I thought you'd rememeber the fuss about this.

The FAA later found forged parts in larger operations; in particular Air Force One (http://www.woodworkforums.com/wiki/Air_Force_One), the aircraft used by the President of the United States (http://www.woodworkforums.com/wiki/President_of_the_United_States), had fraudulent parts. As a result illegal parts dealers faced arrests and convictions. Schiavo said that the most important action taken by the United States government regarding the proliferation of forged parts was to cause the convictions of the parts dealers. The FAA created a more rigorous documenting system to prevent the proliferation of fake aircraft parts. Airlines would receive criminal charges if they knowingly accept defective aircraft parts.
Partnair Flight 394 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partnair_Flight_394)

Stuart