Welder to mig steel and alum

[KWD]

Hi,
I'm new to welding, wanting to buy an entry-level mig welder to run on 15 amp single phase, maybe around 200 amps, and I'd like to have the ability to use an aluminium spool gun. Was looking to spend about $1k on machine. I'm considering a Boc 'Mag Mate' with Binzel MB24 KD torch. Seems to have good performance figures. Does anyone know if these are any good, and is there a spool gun available for that machine?
Thanks in advance,
KWD.

[dubman]

My opinion you can't beat the lincoln 180c with the optional spool gun
expect to pay about $1350-1450.00 for both the spool gun and the machine
or you can get the machine on its own for about $950.00 and add the spool gun later

[Karl Robbers]

Why so keen on a spool gun? Do you really need one? What type of Aluminium work are you intending?

[constablechris]

Mate

I have a Mig O Mag 200c (older model) which I have modified with a North type push pull gun with 8 metre cable. It goes great (other than the gas solenoid went kaput) Doesnt matter what anyone says a push pull or spool gun is worth its weight in gold. (mine weighs 8kg :U)

I have an original specific 3 metre torch for ali, but the amount of time I spent moving the machine to get a straight run, trying to keep your lead flat, or cleaning and replacing tips because of burn back makes the whole project very trying and no fun at all (I am building a 5metre 4mm plate boat) If I was doing it with the regular torch set, I would have given up by now.

I find the 200c is easy enough to use, and it is going great guns with what I want it for. The push pull gun was easy to install, as I got some direction from someone on this site, and that was a god send! I can send you directions or advice if you want or you can search out my post.

If you want info on the Brisbane supplier for the push pull let me know.

A friend runs a Lincoln 180c I think, with a spool gun. It is a bit heavier in the gun than mine because it has a 1kg spool of wire above the trigger, but it again does a great job for him. He got the welder up here in Darwin then bought the spool gun off ebay. He is refiling his wire onto the small spool from a 15kg spool rather than buying lots of very pricy 1kg spools. He wraps his unused wire in a plastic bag with some of those do not eat sachettes,

The advantage of spool gune and push pull is you can move about away from the machine (mine 8 metres) and around corners with the wire still running for you. It is heavier, and I find not as neat a weld as the regular gun, but I am getting better at it so it could be operator error not gun weight there.

And just to let you know this project is the first time I have done ali welding and its looking better all the time. I just messed about with settings used lots of practice bits and went to my local shop for some advice. Cost me a carton and the bloke gave me lots of advice and direction and scrap to play with.

Regards

Chris

[KWD]

Thankyou all for advice.
Karl, I'm planning to mitre and weld together various extruded aluminium profiles, generally about 3-4mm thick, and various small stuff like 15x15 tube. I would only be doing this occasionally, and my concern is that I would spend more time rigging up rollers, liner, wire etc. for 2 hours of work, that's why I thought spool gun looked easy to swap between. I'm open to advice though, and I'm not even sure how well extrusions weld (extrusions are different grades from the usual 5051).
I'll look into the push-pull setup through your threads soon ConstableChris (what is 'push-pull' ?) Does it involve much cost/setup?
KWD.

[Karl Robbers]

Thankyou all for advice.
Karl, I'm planning to mitre and weld together various extruded aluminium profiles, generally about 3-4mm thick, and various small stuff like 15x15 tube. I would only be doing this occasionally, and my concern is that I would spend more time rigging up rollers, liner, wire etc. for 2 hours of work, that's why I thought spool gun looked easy to swap between. I'm open to advice though, and I'm not even sure how well extrusions weld (extrusions are different grades from the usual 5051).
I'll look into the push-pull setup through your threads soon ConstableChris (what is 'push-pull' ?) Does it involve much cost/setup?
KWD.
A mig will definitely handle your 3-4mm extrusions, which weld very nicely by the way, (unless anodised, this must be removed), I would question the 15x15 tube as it will be much thinner and tricky for a novice, but not impossible.
For your purposes I would not even consider a spool gun to be honest, for the cost involved you could even have a second gun set up for Ally with a teflon liner if you wished, although a steel liner will work if in good condition. The downside of a spoolgun or a push pull is their increased bulk which can make them somewhat unwieldy. Changing wire and rollers is no hassle, only a 5 minute job.

DO'S: Use 1.2mm wire - preferably 5183 as it is harder and feeds better. 0.9mm is a bugger to feed. Use the correct contact tip - 1.2mm wire uses a 1.4mm tip. Keep your nozzle clean otherwise you will get black welds. Turn your gas, (pure Argon) up to around 20lpm. Crank your power up - get in and get out fast. Use the correct rollers, (U groove), and don't set your rollers too tight. Remember that aluminium reflects light more than steel and is an intense arc - use all ppe, even sunscreen sometimes and don't tack up without a shield. Make sure that your material is clean.

DONT"S: Don't tie your cable in knots, your wire will not feed. If the wire sticks in the tip, don't keep your finger on the trigger - you will get a birds nest.

To answer your question re. push pull guns. They are a gun with another set of motorised rolls in them that pull the wire through the liner, (4m is about as far as you would want to push ally wire, but a push pull gun will easily double this). The rollers in the gun are set to feed at a speed slightly faster than those in the wire feeder thus keeping the wire taught and preventing kinking and excess friction. They can be a little tricky to set up but are the best option when working in areas such as the bilges of large vessels etc. Obviously the extra set of rollers and a motor adds size and weight.

A spool gun or push pull gun may mask bad habits, but will never make up for them.
If you were working in a shipyard or the like a push pull gun may have merit, for joe blow, (in fact for most applications), they are not really neccessary, a portable wire feeder is a far better option as it's versatility will also enhance your steel welding endeavours.

[KBs PensNmore]

Contact WESS Welding Equipment Sales and Service 82342200, ask for Dominic.
They are based at Cormack Rd Wingfield, as their name suggests they handle all types and repairs of machines and will steer you in the right direction, telling you what machines have their faults and strengths.
I have the model mig you are refering to except mine is the 250amp and has given me excellent service. This is my 3rd the first 2 sold with my business.
With Ally you will want a short handpiece lead as they don't like being pushed to far unless on a push/pull but then you have extra weight on your hand, For steel I'd go for the 4m lead as I've always found that no matter what length it's always too short. If you are doing overhead work, it is nearly impossibe to lift the welder to a position where it is accessible to all points where you want to weld, ie inside or underneath the middle of a trailer. I am saying this with 40yrs experience in steel fab.

[KWD]

Hello all,
I will stick to the basic machine as supplied for a while, and if I find myself doing much ali I might invest in the second gun w- teflon liner etc.
These forums are invaluable, thankyou.

[Karl Robbers]

Hello all,
I will stick to the basic machine as supplied for a while, and if I find myself doing much ali I might invest in the second gun w- teflon liner etc.
These forums are invaluable, thankyou.
A very wise choice.
If possible choose a machine with a portable wirefeeder and easily changed polarity, (should you wish to use flux cored wire). Also try to purchase a machine with plenty of grunt, 200A+ if welding ally is on the horizon.