Shooting board question

[Tiger]

I use a shooting board mainly with my Record no.4 because it's light. It does a good job with most timber but I have had problems with a bit of Tas Oak that was around 10 mm thick. The plane handles pine effortlessly and hardwood which is 6 mm thick but the 10 mm bit of wood just would not allow itself to be cut, the plane was sharp, I tried different amounts of blade projection but no success. A block plane did a better job of shooting on this timber. Any answers?

[ac445ab]

I use a shooting board mainly with my Record no.4 because it's light. It does a good job with most timber but I have had problems with a bit of Tas Oak that was around 10 mm thick. The plane handles pine effortlessly and hardwood which is 6 mm thick but the 10 mm bit of wood just would not allow itself to be cut, the plane was sharp, I tried different amounts of blade projection but no success. A block plane did a better job of shooting on this timber. Any answers?

I don't think a block plane would do the job better. For this task a heavier plane helps as well as a low cutting angle. You could use a dedicated mitre plane (with skew blade) or a ramped shooting board. Both would help to have an easier cut. I had good results with my Record 4 1/2 (heavier in respect to a #4), although equipped with a thicker blade.

Ciao
Giuliano:)

[Tiger]

Thanks Guiliano, the block plane I have does have a low angle and did a reasonable job on this particular timber.

I might look at a 4 1/2 but I was hoping to just make a small adjustment to the no.4 that I have because it is so comfortable and handy.

[ac445ab]

the block plane I have......

Sorry.......I read wrong, I thought you did not have a low angle block plane..:B
However, as you wish to use yours #4 and cannot decrease its cutting angle, you could try a ramped shooting board. It will offer advantage mainly because you will have a progressive blade entry in the wood with minor efforts.Too, I would try to adjust the frog for allowing to the better mouth opening (dedicate mitre planes have a very tight mouth).

Ciao:)

[Mike Wingate]

I am a fan of shooting boards and have recently made 2 pairs. One pair is used at school and takes 2" bladed planes, the other take 2 3/8" blades. My no 5 1/2 out of preference.

[IanW]

I don't clearly understand the problem as you've described it, Tiger. Tas. Oak is tough, but not an especially difficult wood to end-plane, in my experience. You say you've tried various amounts of blade exposure, but the wood 'won't allow itself to be cut'. Does that mean the piece is moving back behind the ramp as the blade contacts it? The fact that you can do it with the block plane suggests you have a problem with the #4, but what that is, I can't guess. One thought is you may not have the cap-iron fitting firmly enough and the blade is springing back a bit as it hits the wood.

In general, a larger mass plane is better for shooting, and BU seems to work better in my hands than BD types, all else equal, but there is no inherent reason a #4 won't work - we used that size on the shooting boards at school, as it was a bit more manageable for 12-year-olds. I use a LV BU smoother on my board, and although there are occasions when I wish for more mass, most of the time it does a great job.

Cheers,

[Tiger]

Thanks guys, Guiliano I hadn't considered a ramped shooting board might look at it though if it means I can use my beloved no.4

Ian, guess I was a bit clumsy with my description of what is happening. I would describe it as severe chatter when it comes to trying to plane this particular bit of tas oak, however other timber that I've used work beautifully. The experience I'm having with this timber is akin to planing with the blade projecting too much and the cut just stalls but it seems to occur even when the blade is only slightly projecting out.

[IanW]

Thanks guys, Guiliano I hadn't considered a ramped shooting board might look at it though if it means I can use my beloved no.4

Ian, guess I was a bit clumsy with my description of what is happening. I would describe it as severe chatter when it comes to trying to plane this particular bit of tas oak, however other timber that I've used work beautifully. The experience I'm having with this timber is akin to planing with the blade projecting too much and the cut just stalls but it seems to occur even when the blade is only slightly projecting out.

Tiger - from your extra explanation, I would be pretty sure the problem is with the #4. The blade is flexing on impact with the hard wood, inducing the chatter & poor cutting. Try tightening the lever-cap screw a tad to add more pressure & pre-tension the blade a bit more. Check that the blade sits cleanly on the frog, right to the beginning of the bevel. A thicker blade might help. It could be that the frog itself is the problem, but Record frogs were usually decently machined & fitted, so that is the least likely source of the chatter, I would think.

If none of the above helps, it looks like you have a good excuse to rush out & get a nice new BU plane....
:U
Cheers,

[Tiger]

I ran some more tests on the plane while using a shooting board and found that the blade moves in depth and angle when it meets with the timber thus stalling the plane. It moves ever so slightly but it moves. It does not move with pine or softwood so something must be loose.

Ian I think you're on the money but I have tightened the lever cap screw as far as it will go, everything seems pretty tight and the frog looks like it's ok. Tomorrow I'll have another look.

[IanW]

Indeed, I think you are homing in on the problem. If the blade moves on contact, then it's clearly not being held firmly. If you have screwed the retaining screw so far down that you can't easily slide the lever cap in place, & it's still not locking firmly, the most likely explanation is a worn or faulty cam. If you happen to have another matching lever cap, you could test that theory very quickly.

If the cam IS the problem, it can be fixed fairly easily. The least challenging solution would be to find a new lever cap. You can replace the cam, which is not a difficult job, just requires punching out the retaining pin (but you have the problem of getting hold of the right part!). Or you could repair it, by building it up a bit & re-shaping. This is the easier approach if you have access to the right equipment. I've done a couple quite successfully by building the curve up with brazing rod, then filing the right shape back into it. The bronze surface actually works more smoothly than the original iron....

Cheers,

[Tiger]

Thanks Ian, I've checked the cam it seems to be ok, took the frog off and there were some shavings trapped between it and the frog, cleared those tightened down the frog screws but what wasn't ok though was the lateral adjusting lever. The rivet holding the lever was barely holding so I drilled it out and put a small bolt and added a nut to it, that helped a bit but is there a better fix for when the rivet becomes loose?

Anyhow the plane works a lot better, there is still a trace of chatter with the hardwood but if I back off the depth it's not too bad.

[IanW]

Tiger, the fact that there were shavings between blade & frog indicates the blade must not be seating properly. The frog itself may be warped or out of flat - worth checking. I'm sure a bit of fiddling & fettling will sort it out.

I've replaced a lateral-adjuster rivet by using an ordinary bullet-head nail of the right diameter - they are made of soft steel that peins easily. Cut off part of the head & pein the remainder flat before inserting it, then carefully pein the other end once it's assembled. It takes a bit of judgement to estimate how much nail to leave proud so you can pein it just enough to lock it in place. (If you have the gear, you can drill a short hole in the end of the rivet - a centre-punch in that will start the end spreading nicely). Take care not to make it so tight the lever won't move.....

Cheers,

[Tiger]

Thanks Ian I will give the nail a try but the bolt and nut certainly make it a lot more rigid. The no 4 is a lot better now but I did notice that some dust/very fine shavings keeps getting in between the chipbreaker and iron. I spent a bit of time a while ago flattening the chipbreaker and then discovered that the back of the plane was not perfectly flat thereby letting in rubbish, still the current setup is very effective on softwoods. I will look at the frog next but preliminary assessment shows that it's flat lengthwise and across.