which proxxon?

[jack620]

I'm going to upgrade from a Dremel to a Proxxon grinder. Proxxon sell a holder which allows the grinder to be mounted in a lathe toolpost. There are standard (IB/E) and long necked (LB/E) versions of the grinder. If these tools are actually useful as a toolpost grinder I will buy the long necked version. If they are useless I'll just buy the standard version. I've never done any toolpost grinding and I'm not even sure if I ever will. It would be nice to have the option though.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Chris

[Pete F]

Chris I have this Proxxon PROXXON - FBS 240/E (http://www.proxxon.com/eng/html/28472.php) I made up a holder for a QCTP holder so I could use it for cross and face drilling, it would not be suitable for grinding however.

The difficulty I found is that with a relatively small collar with which to mount the drill, a very small amount of flex at the collar is magnified at the drill bit. For drilling I can work around that, but it's not ideal.

In your application I would definitely go for the long version and make a holder to keep it as rigid as possible.

Even though I am normall impressed with Proxxon I'll be quite honest and think you may be a little disappointed using the grinder you mentioned as a TPG. That's just a gut feeling, but as much as they claim low runout for that model, runout on a toolpost grinder is a whole different kettle of fish if you're after a good finish. If you already had the grinder and wanted to have a go at, say grinding some chuck jaws, I'd say go for it; it's just the cost of the time in making the holder. If you're going to go out and buy one have you spoken to anyone who has successfully used it for this purpose? Apart from the runout, the wheels they normally use are miserable little things, fine for model making I guess, I've tried many times to use various wheels on my drill/grinder and invariably give up in disgust. The other thing I've found with mine is that it's quite low powered and that's a problem if I'm cross drilling a deep hole.

As I say, I just have my doubts, but that's merely my uneducated opinion.

Pete

[jack620]

Thanks pete. I guess 100W isn't exactly overpowered! Interesting to hear some real world experience versus marketing hype. I reckon I might just get the standard version and use it for what it is primarily designed for.
Chris

[Pete F]

Chris after posting I had a read through some posts on the net. I was curious as I wondered how much better this particular model of Proxxon is compared to mine. It could be worth you similarly doing a search should you still be tempted to go down this path. It seems my gut feeling is pretty much the consensus from what I've seen so far; it "works" but isn't great.

Having said that, the Proxxon as a brand is great. I used to use a Dremmel for work years ago and I was having to constantly rebuild the things. They really are a POS. The Proxxon is very much a standard above the Dremmel. I think the model you quoted is much better again than mine.

As far as the short/long version, is there any real disadvantage in the long one? If you're planning on getting one regardless it seems to me the long one may be a better option as at least then you can indeed reliably mount it in a holder. Even if just for spotting holes, it's still quite a good accessory to have on the lathe.

Pete

[Greg Q]

The other option, if you have a huge compressor and love noise, is to use an air powered die grinder. I have one by Sioux, but it only takes 1/8" tool shafts which is Dremel territory. I also have a 1/4" unit which seems to enjoy very low run-out. Air hog though...my 12 CFM (actual) compressor runs constantly trying to keep up with it. Their are some that spin at reasonably slow rpms...a lot of them are over 60,000 which may be a tetch speedy

Greg

[jack620]

Pete,
I'll get the long Proxxon as you suggest. It's only a few bucks extra. I have also managed to burn out a Dremel without much effort. Luckily it was a warranty job.

Greg,
My 6.5cfm Clisby compressor wouldn't cope with an air tool. I won't replace it tho- it's quiet and more than adequate for spray painting (it has a decent sized tank).

Cheers,
Chris

[Greg Q]

That's funny: I was just using my 1/4" die grinder with the compressor banging away continuously. I was reminded yet again of how much energy air tools use. They've got to be five times more money per unit of work to run.

Let us know your later impressions of the Proxxon...I have been admiring them for about twenty years now, waiting for the right moment:wink:

I've had Dremels since 1968 when I was 14 but rarely use one these days. (Including the 1968 one, still in my tool box)

Greg

[jack620]

Will do Greg.

BTW there's a Proxxon shop in Singapore. I reckon he has the full range of tools and accessories. A little bit cheaper than Oz:

#B1-28 (Basement) Fook Hai Building
150 South Bridge Rd
Singapore

There's a bunch of RC model shops on the same floor if you're into that sort of thing. It's an easy walk from the Fairmont Hotel.

Regards,
Chris

[Greg Q]

Thanks Chris...With any luck I shall be haunting Singapore weekly pretty soon.

Greg

[bwal74]

How much is a Proxxon worth? I was thinking I need a engraver sooner or later.
Ben

[jack620]

Here's the aussie website Ben:

Engraving tool GG 12 (12V DC) | Proxxon World (http://www.proxxonworld.com.au/product/engraving_tool_gg_12_12v_dc)

Prices don't include GST.

[bwal74]

Thanks Jack. Seems pretty reasonable.
Ben

[Pete F]

Chris, just a heads up that there's an article in the latest MEW (January 2012), about using a Makita laminate trim router as a TPG. I would imagine the bearings would hardly be precision in them, but they're certainly infinitely better than a standard Proxxon style tool. Mostly however they're significantly more powerful and, unlike the miserable noodle, have a 1/4" collet so at least you can use reasonable sized wheels in them. Speaking of which, the author cautioned about using wheels of the appropriately rated RPM, good advice given the speed at which they spin; Bunnings' drill style wheels need not apply!

I'm quite sure these would still be no substitute for a genuine TPG, but given that they're readily available could be worth a shot if you haven't already ordered the Proxxon grinder. Personally however I would go with a very good brand. I have a Makita laminate trimmer and have always been impressed with the quality of it, even though it generally only gets used in its intended role. I'm away at the moment (as per usual :(( ) so can't help with the model number, but it's clearly a model pitched to the professional market.

Pete

[Greg Q]

If those Makita trimmer routers are anything like the rest of their line the bearings will be:

a) nothing special, but:

b) still miles better than a Dremel, and:

c) able to be swapped for a higher grade of the same bearing if you are chasing something finer than 0.01mm. You might find though that the (mostly) plastic housing limits the theoretical maximum precision limit of any portable spindle bearing.

d) I still like the idea though...and it is one that I'd pursue if I didn't have a TPG.

Greg

ON Editted EDIT: Never mind

[Pete F]

Greg if "they" ever let me come home I'll check my router, but I don't recall too much plastic in it. I've seen cheaper Makita trim routers so presume they make different models. The one I have looks like it could be run over with a tank, possibly making it a good candidate for tweaking. In the end though one can only polish a #### so much and without MAJOR rebuilding I don't know how it would be possible to easily incorporate bearing pre-load etc, an essential part of real precision bearings.

While I was initially quite sceptical, the author of the article certainly told a convincing tale, and the photos of the finished work looked good. If greater precision was necessary than the router straight up, I think it would be possible to build a precision spindle and use the router on a belt to power the spindle.

The only real downside I see (other than the potential lack of precision as mentioned) is that these puppies are quite loud. I have a beautiful Bosch full sized router, when I used to work in a communal workshop everyone would comment on how (relatively) quiet that router is. Sadly the same can't be said for the Makita, nor most other routers for that matter!

Pete

[Greg Q]

Yeah, I agree about most routers and the buzz they make. I have a 1991 Bosch which I'd love to find more of (the big blue ones) and a Hitachi. But the Festool OF1400 leaves them both for dead when it comes to noise, precision, repeatability. But It's only had a fraction of the use the other ones have endured.*

*I once profiled 1.2 km of timber in one session on the Hitachi. Take that!

(With a Northern Tools supplied Infinity router bit which still looks and acts like new)

I own a Makita sander circa 1991 which is on its fourth set of bearings (About $6.00/set). I also have a 1978 Makita battery drill which still works. It was probably the best consumer tool made that year. Beats me why I even mentioned that; I guess someone had to.

Does anyone else have that stupid impulse of not wanting to use the good tool on a job...using instead the still chugging but seen better days work-a-day tool?

[jack620]

Thanks Fellas,

No doubt about it, Makita make the loudest power tools I've ever heard. My 3600BR router is a ripper, but it's as loud as a turbine. The biscuit jointer is not much better.

The better Makita laminate trimmer has an alloy body. I don't have it, but might have to add it to the shopping list.

I'll check out the MEW article. I still need a die grinder, so I reckon I'll be getting a Proxxon either way.

Chris

[jack620]

Does anyone else have that stupid impulse of not wanting to use the good tool on a job...using instead the still chugging but seen better days work-a-day tool?

Depends on the job Greg. I never take my Starrett square out of the workshop when I'm doing building type work, even though it's perfect for the job. I've got a cheapy for that. I do use my Festool router for all freehand work though. It's such a joy to use, I'm prepared to risk damaging it outdoors.