More stuff

[Woodlee]

I took some pics of the drills and the punch press I got along with the shaper .
The shaper is still at the old workshop ,waiting for a sparky to do the disconnect .
It's hard to find a sparky around here ,plenty in town but most don't want small jobs.
The biggest drill in the bunch is 1-3/4"
the tapered sleeves all bar one were on drills and took a.bit of persuasion to get off ,I used a drill drift made of mild steel to drift them off so there was no damage to the drills or sleeves.
I guess a good soak in cleaning vinegar is next .
The punch press will be a handy additon to the workshop
only one punch and die with it ,but my mate will be keeping an eye out for anymore while cleaning up .
This press is so heavy I can barely lift it ,lookslike the body has been cut from 1-1/4 plate , a real ball buster to move. I found some slugs that had been punched out of 5/16" steel , so I guess some one really had a good time with this tool at one time.

Found this on Evil Bay , looks like a shaper vice to me , very similar to the one we had on the Elliot shaper in apprentice training center , it appears to be well and truly abused and butchered , not sure if its worth saving .
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Big-Milling-Vices-wt-260mm-width-jaws-250mm-Expansion-/320619777952?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item4aa66d8fa0

Ill be looking for a shaper vice in the future ,might as well start now .

Kev

[wheelinround]

I'm moving to Katherine Kev only so I can come sit and drool over the tools especially the new lot well ok and all the others.

Nice scores yet again.

[Stustoys]

Hi Kev,
Looking good, any ideas what this bar if for?

Stuart

[Woodlee]

Hi Kev,
Looking good, any ideas what this bar if for?

Stuart

Yes , It's a spring bar , the bottom end is bent at 90deg and fits in a hole in the body , when the lever is pulled down a Link bracket on the opposite side moves forward and loads up the spring bar , and helps to return the punch and lever to the up right position .
Great looking arrow Stu .

Ray there is a free monster size radial arm drill press up for grabs.

I can't believe this machinery has been sitting here in town ,un-used for so many years .
Its one place I had never visited in the 20 odd years Ive been in Katherine until last week.
The yard around the workshop is like a treasure trove , lots of steel plate , solid bar and pipe , railway line in three sizes .Years of never throwing anything away .( I know the feeling )
The original owner bought a Toyota dealer ship in town and just locked up the workshop and left it as it was .He really dropped his bundle after the flood , lost his business all his machinery and his house as well. He has sort of become a hermit , never see him around town at all .
Got my eye on the old air compressor , its a Pulford the same as mine at home , but the compressor itself is a larger out put than mine , I reckon a rebuild and a retro fit will be the go .Still get parts for them so it should be an easy job , depending on the damage from water and rust .

Kev.

[Dave J]

Stuart and I where having a laugh over that vice and it's screw a while back Kev. He has had it a long time (6 months +) and I really don't think it's worth saving. If it was free you would give it a go, but not if you have to even pay postage. That seller has some good gear, but over prices a lot and thats why he has it for so long.

With your expertise you will have all that gear up and running in no time. You got a good score with those drill bits, as you know some are worth up around the $300+ mark new these days.

Looking forward to seeing you clean up photos of the shaper. Did you get the radial drill and lathe as well?

Dave

[Stustoys]

Hi,
Thats the vice I was thinking about when talking about them in another thread.
Using my super power I've just spotted something else wrong with it :). The swivel base appears to be missing. So if its like mine(and they all seem pretty much the same in each size) without the base it wont bolt to the teeslots correctly. So you'd have to fit some sort of plate.

Stuart

[Woodlee]

Dave
would love to keep the drill and the lathe , but I dont have the space to store them .
Just imagine how many years I would be occupied restoring those .
The drill is amazing all the feed for the quill is open bevel gears and it had at one time power feed on the column to sviwel the arm and raise and lower it .
A guy that I work with is interested in the lathe , but he is a bit unreliable and may get cold feet .
Both the lathe and the drill are there for the taking , but as with me finding machinery down south and getting it up here it will be the same getting down to your end.
It will be a while before I get to the shaper ,I have to get some concrete floor down under the extension to my shed .Once that is done I've got my Edgwick lathe and the shaper to restore. I think the shaper will be easier than the lathe
I'm going to be flat out finding time to go fishing.
Found a company in Taiwan that makes shaper vices not sure what the quality is like ,but for the 12" one 500 odd US is not bad.
Taiwan Tools:Machine Tools Accessories-Milling Machine Accessories,Vise,Milling Machine Accessories,Machining Center Accessories,Grinding Machine Accessories,Vise,Rotary Table Dividing head,Drill Chuck (http://www.taiwantool.com.tw/product_view.asp?FkindNo=F000003&SkindNo=S000001&ItemNo=I00000001&tda02c=110511005)

Kev.

[Dave J]

Hi Kev,
You will find a vice cheaper than that even with postage. If you spot one down my way I will help you out where I can. I picked up my 14 inch shaper vice for $150 from Sydney, so even with postage on top it would be cheaper than that one. Other members down south might keep an eye out for you as well.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/new-me-alba-shaper-115314/index4.html#post1236157

I am not interested in anything up your way, I was just wondering if you where getting it all. The guy I bought my shaper off had a radial drill that was latter model than that one and has my number as he is going to get rid of it, so I will wait for that one.

Dave

[Woodlee]

Dave , would you mind letting me know who the seller for your shaper vice is? I would like to keep an eye on his listings , and maybe lucky some day and he may have a vice.
Thanks
Kev

[Woodlee]

Just been to the workshop where the shaper is .
Had a good look at it and its a 4S .
The table can be removed and put back on in a different position ,I dont think it would be too difficult to convert it to a swivel type table.

Kev.

[Dave J]

Hi Kev,
We can be our own little Alba club, so far we have me and you. LOL
Sorry about not replying to your question above I forgot about it until I just saw it again. This is the guy where I bought my vise from, he seems to pick stuff up from schools and auctions. When I spoke to him he said he had a mate in the education department, so it might be worth letting him know your chasing one.
eBay My World - tissuescars (http://myworld.ebay.com.au/tissuescars)

Dave

[Woodlee]

Thanks Dave , I have bought stuff from him before ,I didnt know that where you got your vice .
Ill keep an eye on his listings.
The sparky is going to disconnect the power tomorrow , and Ive got a 3 ton forklift to move the shaper up the road a bit to the sandblasters place . He offered to let me leave it there for a bit and I'll strip it and he can blast the frame and other bits.
Hes got some fancy paint he reckons will be good for it ,its aself levelling paint .
I want to paint it in a machine grey colour or machine green , not the crappy wedgewood blue like my hacksaw.

Kev.

[RayG]

Hi Kev,

I'm looking forward to following the shaper restoration, should be a nice solid machine. :2tsup:

Regards
Ray

[Woodlee]

Just comparing pics of Daves shaper and mine ,looks like Dave's is a larger model that mine ,the table has a extension on it and a different foot support to mine .Also Daves has an extra lever at the rear just above the gearbox on the main housing .
I checked the side cover plate on mine and it definitely says 4S,but I think they came in different stroke lengths ,mine is either a 12" or 14" stroke ,pretty sure its 12" .
Also mine appears to have no clutch lever maybe the previous owner removed the clutch due to some damage or some thing .I hope not ,because it will be impossible to get the parts ,and I haven't seen anything on the web regarding these modles , only the smaller 1A model on lathes UK
Kev.

[Dave J]

Hi Kev,
I am almost positive yours would be a 14 inch model. Mine is a 6S with a 24 inch stroke and as far as I know is the biggest they made.
The extra lever on the back is a high/low gear to give 6 speeds all up instead 3, behind the bull gear there are 2 shafts with sets of gears.
The long arm is the clutch lever on mine and it runs to the other side like in the picture below. The clutch just works by the 2 tapers coming together.
I have not owned or seen a 4 in person so I am not sure if they changed the clutch position.
The motor on mine sits on that big cast iron block bolted behind the shaper. The last pictures show you the size of mine compared to a standard pallet jack.

These are the only pictures I have of it so far.

Dave
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192677&stc=1&d=1325163966

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192678&stc=1&d=1325163966

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192679&stc=1&d=1325163966

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192680&stc=1&d=1325163966

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192681&stc=1&d=1325163966

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192682&stc=1&d=1325163966

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192683&stc=1&d=1325164644

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=192684&stc=1&d=1325164644

[Stustoys]

Hi Kev,
I'm not sure what you have arrowed is anything to do with the clutch. The clutch is normally on the input of the gearbox so is on the other side of your machine.

Stuart

[Woodlee]

Stu ,
There seems to be an absence of the clutch operating lever ,and no linkages over the gear box to the input side of the g/box .I don't recall seeing any brackets on top of the g/box to carry any linkages either.
The drive from the motor to the g/box is under a guard so I havent had a chance to check that out . It was only tonight while I was comparing images of Dave and my machines that I noticed this.
Knowing the previous owner of the business , he was a bit agricultural in his engineering practices ,I wouldnt put it past him to remove the clutch altogether and just have it operate from the on off switch .
Any way I guess Im going to find out soon enough.
Dave ,thanks for the extra pics ,I know what to look for tomorrow.
Kev.

[Dave J]

Hi Kev,
I don't think that is a clutch, have a look at Darren's Elliot shaper (Elliot took over Alba) and his has the same thing and no clutch. He asked and I posted photos of the clutch for him, but he is not interested in a clutch because of the work involved.
18" Elliot Shaper (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2932.msg32006#msg32006)


Dave

[Stustoys]

Hi Guys,
Maybe not having a clutch is why some shapers have a jog button?
Mine has both, go figure lol

Stuart

[Woodlee]

Ill certainly be looking at an inch or jog button when I get it wired up with a new motor.
I spent the day waiting for the sparky to come and disconnect the wiring ,despite the circuit breakers being off ,the owner of the workshop wants the power completely disconnected from the machines. I was considering and angle grinder to cut through the conduit ,but though better off it.

While waiting for the sparky I decided to dismantle the shaper ,I got the gearbox off , the ram and the swivelling vertical slide ,there is some damage to the swivel arrangement that sits back inside the front of the ram the boss that the lock for the swivel is completely broken off the assembly ,It is repairable and will be ok after .
Question for Dave and or Stu , is this lock collar left hand thread ?, I seem to recall that it is .This one is extremely tight and possibly seized due to rust .The collar on my machine has four holes around the periphery ,I suspect this has been done up very tightly ,tomorrow I'm going to apply a little heat and use a c spanner to try and get it loose , if not ,dread the thought but I may have to resort to stillsons. I just need to know left or right hand thread .

The slide ways for the ram are in very good condition with only a couple of small areas of galling from lack of oil ,close inspection of the ram pivot arm and the gears in the box show no damage. Just a bit of seizure from being drowned.

Kev.

[Dave J]

Hi Kev, (call sign Alba 4) LOL
I can not remember what thread it is, but will check for you when I go back down in a while.
In case you haven't already found out, the square shaft in the centre of that piece is the stroke adjustment, which makes things nice and easy to adjust on these machines. With the Douglas you need to open the cover, undo the bolt and manually move it, a real pain.

With the damage can you grab some pictures of it? Around this area is a common place for damage as people wind the tool slide down to far and it contacts the ways.

You should be able to adapt a clutch to it off something else, I would rather have a clutch myself. It is also easier on the motor if your not stopping it all the time to do adjustments etc.

Dave

[Dave J]

I forgot to say before it looks like yours has a 4 speed gear box with the extra one over to the right, where mine has a 3 and then the other lever to make it 6.

Dave

[Woodlee]

Yes four speed .
The part I circled in the previous post is the boss for the idler gear shaft , this gear transmits power from the gear box to the main bull wheel that operates the ram pivot arm .
I
I'll take pictures tomorrow of the damage to the swivel ,the damaged is caused by over zealous turning of the square headed locking pin just behind the vertical slide .the pin is supposed to rotate only about a quarter to half a turn to unlock the swivel for the vertical slide. The pin is secured in the ram casting with a very fine grub screw , not a hex grub screw but a slotted screw .
Forgot to take my camera with me this morning . It's down in the shed some where .

Edit : Dave Just looked at the pics you posted last night ,your ram head is a different arrangement than mine for locking the swivel for the vertical slide ,your has two bolts one either side set in a slot in the ram casting .
Mine locks with the squared ended pin behind the vertical slide ,the pin has an eccentric in the end ,which fits into a half moon piece that sits in a large groove in the piece that fits into the machined hole in the end of the ram ,as the pin is turned the eccentric forces the half moon against the inside of the groove and locks the swivel , but the end has been broken off the swivel ,by forcing the pin around too far hard to explain ,easier with pictures tomorrow.
Added a pic but for got to arrow the locking pin behind the vertical slide.

Thanks for your help btw , I really appreciate it .
Alba Club sounds good. Dave what's your call sign? Alba 6S ?

Kev.

[Stustoys]

Hi Kev,
I had exactly the same problem with stroke adjustment I had when I got my shaper.
I'm not sure it's infact a left hand thread but it certainly unlocks when you turn the square drive shaft clockwise. You shouldn't need stillsons on the collar(besides I tried that and it didnt work, just put the spanner on it and give a gentle thump.

Does the bull gear turn when you try and undo it?

Stuart

[Dave J]

I checked mine but I cant help you with anything as I haven't had it off and cant see any threads. Mine has a groove in the centre so I am not sure if it's 2 collars and a washer in between or just one unit fixed to the shaft.

Your head swivel sounds similar to the Douglas shapers only it would be bigger.

Dave

[Dave J]

I forgot to add, mine has no holes in it at all, and the square drive for ram stroke adjustment turns fine. So maybe it's a different set up to mine.
I will have another good look in the morning for you.

Dave

[Stustoys]

And I forgot to add "if yours is the same as mine"
But I wonder if they have to be the same because of the way the gear turn?

Stuart

[Bryan]

And I forgot to add "if yours is the same as mine"
But I wonder if they have to be the same because of the way the gear turn?

Stuart

Mine is RH, though a different make. I see no reason for it to be LH. It just has to provide an axial load between two parts, one of which can turn either way.

[Woodlee]

I cant turn the the squared headed shaft for the stroke adjustment ,it must be seized in there some where ,Ill just have to try and get things loosened up a bit .Ill take the table off today as I see the screw for raising the table is pretty rusted up and is going to be a major problem I've been soaking it in CRC.Ill soldier on with it and leave the stillsons in the tool box.

Thanks for the info .
Kev.

[Woodlee]

Well another day at the shaper project first job was to get the adjustment lock collar off ,a c spanner and a whack in the right direction it came off ,, Vertical slide and the table carrier next , and the screw for height adjustment.
The stroke adjuster was a bit of a problem due to limited access and room to get in to it .Finally after a bit of heat much drowning in CRC and loosening the keeper plates for the block that slides along the bull gear slot
I finally got things loosened up the bull gear turns and the pivot arm reciprocates.
Ill be removing the pivot arm and the bull gear on Monday.
some pics below
Kev

[Woodlee]

More pics of the carnage.
First pic you can see where the cast iron has parted company .The pin has an eccentric on its end which fits into a hole in the half moon piece ,this piece fits in the groove between the two diameters and lock the swivel rotation of the vertical slide .


Kev.

[Stustoys]

Hi Kev,
Its looking good so far. Hopefully the carriage wont be a hard fix.

Stuart

[Woodlee]

Should be fairly simple fix Ill put a large bolt into the base and fix the broken piece on and then add some smaller socket cap screws .
Got to get a puller to remove that feed drive gear .It has a bronze bush scotch keyed into it ,I can remove the scotch keys and use the threads to fit some rod into and pull it off. I have apuller that may be suitable. Just need some 5/16 Whitworth threaded rod .
Luckily I kept all my Whitworth spanners that I hevent used for 30odd years.
Kev.

[Dave J]

I don't think it will be to hard to fix Kev.
I found that with all my Whitworth spanners and sockets as well. Over the years I have picked up a full socket set because people discarded them.

Dave

[Bryan]

(Metric rant deleted)

[Woodlee]

I've a couple of Whitworth socket sets ,ring spanners and some open enders .So far they have been all Ive needed to dismatle the machine .
I had them stashed away in an old tool box ,
I was tempted at one time to sell them off on Ebay ,luckily I forgot about them and didn't go through with the disposal idea.
I've had these since my apprenticeship all the machinery I worked on was ex war production stuff , all Whitworth and BSF bolts.

Had the day off the today ,taking it easy ,I've been cleaning up some of the smaller bits and pieces , like the clapper box and the top slide I can still see some of the original scraping marks and flaking marks on the ends of the slide . Next week Ill atack the slide swivel , I have another job in the lathe I'm doing for a mate that I want to finish ,so I can concentrate on the repair.

Kev.

[wheelinround]

Watching with great interest Kev pity about broken parts but I am sure all will come together in your hands. In post #31 the shaft thats broken will you weld that or aligne and braze/bolt if possible.

[Bryan]

That pivot lock system doesn't sound all that secure to me. Makes you wonder if it was overtightened because it was slipping.

[Dave J]

I was thinking along the same lines as Kev suggested for the fix with 1 large bolt and 3-4 smaller socket head bolts around it. After this I think it will be stronger than original as it will be trying to stretch the HT bolts instead of cast iron.

Dave

[Woodlee]

That's my thinking Dave.

Bryan
Not sure about the breakage ,my guess is it just been over locked , being the same type of spindle as the ram locking spindle in appearance I reckon some one has been under the impression that the locking spindle was threaded and got at it with a big lever.
The spindle is just secured into the casting with a small slotted grub screw and just lifts out ,no thread at all.
If you look at the pic of the bits (1st pic post #31) you can see the groove just under the washer part of the spindle where the grub screw fits.

Ray
Hard to weld or braze that particular bit , it's pretty well oil soaked ,and will only break out again.


Kev (Alba 4)