Used large ball bearing/race anyone? I want one...

[jhovel]

I'm looking for a single row ball race in the order of a 6321 (or so). A new one (around $250) is not sensible nor needed.
I have a cast iron plate with a 9" spigot on its underside that I would like to use as an anvil and welding positioner table. Its around 20" square and was cast for a bolt-down foot for street lighting or something like that - with a 9" diameter lamp post bolted or pressed ot riveted into the spigot.
It weighs around 100kg.
I would like to mount it rotatable on a stand and the only way it would be rotatable will be on a bearing. The table is too heavy to rotate on a sliding surface.
Maybe one of you blokes have access to a used bearing from earth moving equipment or mining gear or some other large machinery.
I would be able to find a way of locating the table somehow on a taper roller or thrust bearing that size too....

Anyone?

Joe

[rogerbaker]

Hi Joe
If you cant find a suitable bearing maybe one of the old Repco wheel alignment pads might do what you want.

Roger

[RayG]

Hi Joe,

Sort of a lazy Susan on steriods.. lazy Bertha perhaps...

I've got a job next week at a place that might have that sort of bearing, they replace things every year as part of their routine maintenance regime, irrespective of how much wear...

I'll ask and see what they have..

Regards
Ray

[Woodlee]

When I get back to work next week ,I'll look around for a truck wheel bearing ,only thing is they are tapered roller brgs.
If one of those would suit let me know.
I have af ew of the outer races here at home ,but no roller cones .
I often use the outer races for packing on the mill.

Kev.

[jhovel]

Hi Ray and Kev,
you assistance will be greatly appreciated!
A large taper roller bearing will work for me. I would simply add an extended "lazy Bertha" 'spindle' inside the base and add a smaller single row bearing out of my 'stock' on the end with a suitable reducer to maintain the alignment of the taper rollers. The weight of the table will keep the taper roller bearing loaded in any case.
The table bearing outer diameter is HUGE - 9" or 228mm ! (minus whatever is required as a spacer/bush for whatever bearing I end up with)
"Lazy Bertha" is a good name for it, Ray :)
It will obviously only ever be hand rotated - or electrically or mechanically rotated very slowly for welding around things (I'm thinking of something like a kick wheel or a foot swith operated very slow electric drive. I haven't designed anything concrete yet until I know how I support the table.
Ray, did you see the table at you last visit? I can't recall pointing it out - it was on the ground just outside me shed (and getting it off my trailer was what blew the seal in my crane cylinder).
Joe

[Tools4Me]

Go to a place that reconditions industrial gearboxes or large electric motors. They usually have a scrap bin full of old bearings and probably would be happy to let you have one.

In Brisbane that might be (electrical) companies like ATMR, ABB or George Gilberts (or whatever they call themselves now) etc.

If you're struggling for a lead, try one of the bearing factors. Go in and ask them to suggest a company that reconditions the kinds of equipment that has these large bearings.

[Woodlee]

Ok Ill look for a bearing on Monday .

Kev.

[zuffen]

Why not use a standard motor vehicle stub axle and hub.

It could be front or rear (rear would probably be easier to set up.

Two taper rooler bearings and avaialble for almost free from your local wrecker.

And if you wanted to get fancy you could have a brake on it to stop it turning when you wanted that.

[jhovel]

I thought about it - but suspect it's nowhere near rigid enough. Maybe a truck front stub axle.... I know no sources for that either though.
Joe

[Brett22]

I might be able to help, the group I work for manufacture crushing equipment for the mining industry, Im sure I have some used bearings at work from a rebuild (around 280mm-350mm OD).
The other problem is I cant help with the single row ball bearing we only use double row spherical bearings(SKF), it should still work in that arangment tho, when I get back from holidays I will have a look for you.
Regards
Brett

[Michael G]

The best I can offer is a 6010 bearing which has a 50mm ID.

Brett, from memory double row spherical bearings are self aligning so using them for a turntable may not work unless there is a second smaller bearing there to stabilise the shaft.

There is a way around this issue without having to use large bearings - in fact for this application it may be preferable as sooner or later some stray current will probably travel through your bearing and ruin it, starting the search all over again...

Michael

193600

[Ben Dono]

Old slashers gearboxes have a large cone and cup setup.. You could use the shaft as well.. Tractor shops would have old ones lying around.. Especially now in mid summer..

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi joe
Michaels idea works very well and if you don't have another piece of plate big enough for the guide rollers then pieces of flat welded into a 'Y' shape will give 3 point contact.

Phil

[jhovel]

I love this forum! or rather the spirit of the members who make up this forum.:2tsup:

I had a phone call today from "John" who after introducing himself indicated that I don't know him from a bar of soap :-

He then said that his transport operation had a spare used bearing around 6" OD that might do what I was looking to do and that he had read this thread. So he had put it into the toolbox of one his drivers who was scheduled to leave the trailers of his double B parked near where I live. I should just go and get it.

On my way home from work, I went past there to see where these trailers would be parked - and there they were. A look in the toolbox as directed found this:
http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7575-06012012587-small.jpg

How's that for service? Bloody brilliant! Within 48 hrs... :U
Thank you very much John! :2tsup:

So before we get too far off track of what I actually have and want to do, here are a couple of pictures of what my "table" looks like and the stand legs I happen to have and might use and where this large bearing is proposed to go. The table is 18" square and 3" thick around the edge, the actual top approx 1-1/2" thick.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7576-06012012583-small.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7577-06012012584-small.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7578-06012012586-small.jpg

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7579-06012012588-small.jpg

Now I will have to give this a bit more thought..... :roll:
Sketch coming when I got an inspiration :doh:

Cheers,
Joe

[jhovel]

RayG: What's the crossfeed capacity of your new shaper? The top surface of this thing might give it a good "workout"? :fisch:

Joe

[RayG]

RayG: What's the crossfeed capacity of your new shaper? The top surface of this thing might give it a good "workout"? :fisch:

Joe

Hi Joe,

Wow, how's that for service, and amazing generosity!... :2tsup:

Not sure on the cross feed capacity of the shaper, but, we can give it a shot.

Alternatively I could do it two setups on the surface grinder, the surface grinder will do around 700 x 300 ( 28" x 12") I would set it up upside down and grind the bottom flat, then spin around 180 and do the other side.. then flip over and do the top, referencing off the ground bottom surface... might work..:)

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

Hi Joe,
Good onya John for helping out a fellow member.:2tsup:
That is what I have found with this forum over the years, it's like the good old Aussie spirit of helping your mates out.

I will be watching you table with interest, always think of making one when a job comes along that needs it, but never get around to it.
It should be a solid table when your finished.

Dave

[Stustoys]

Hi Joe,
another +1 for a big :2tsup: for John.

Dont shapers generally have a crossfeed that matches the stroke?

Ray,
That center circle looks to be about 250dia so you'd be able to get that in one pass maybe. (be you would need something like 370mm from the wheel to the column)

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Joe,
another +1 for a big :2tsup: for John.

Dont shapers generally have a crossfeed that matches the stroke?

Ray,
That center circle looks to be about 250dia so you'd be able to get that in one pass maybe. (be you would need something like 370mm from the wheel to the column)

Stuart

Hi Stuart,

Just a quick and rough measurement, I would say that the shaper is 18 x 18 plus a bit..

The SG, would fit the table inside the coolant splash guards, plenty of room to the column, it's about 400+ from the chuck edge to the column, so moving the splash guards it would fit easily.

Regards
Ray

[Dave J]

Hi Stuart,
Shapers are usually sized to do a cube the size of the stroke.

Dave

[jhovel]

Thanks all for the input.
Ray, I think surface grinding would be a bit over the top - and while the size might fit, the bloody thing is VERY heavy - crane needed to reach across to sit it on a SG.
Because two or three people can reach either side and front of a shaper table, that would be easy enough. The surface finish from a shaper will be plenty good enough anyway. I think a fair bit (maybe 3mm might need to come off to make it flat. Its just a rough cast surface, thoroughly rusted. If we did indeed tackle this, I's get it sand blasted first.

What would however be REALLY good would be some T slots. I know that is possible with a shaper as well, but I have no idea what's involved.

I've been giving the mounting some thought and turned up a flanged 90mm spigot as a starting point to mount the bearing cone onto the bottom of the table (in the position shown in one of the photos). Next, I'll look for a piece of pipe that I can turn a 147mm step into to mount the bearing ring in.
At the bottom of that, I'll then weld in a stepped bush for another smaller taper roller bearing. I'll be then able to 'visualise' how to support that 'hub' with my stands (if indeed they turn out to be suitable).
It's taking shape in my head at least..... :)

Joe

[Bryan]

I think T slots are usually done with a tool forged or bent into an L shape. Or two of them ideally. The clapper is locked. After cutting the vertical slot in the normal way of course. If I were Ray I'd want to try some simpler stuff first.

[Dave J]

I agree with Bryan, Ray will be on a steep learning curve as it is.
I notice CTC has T slot cutters with inserts available for not so much. At least it's only the tips you throw away instead of the whole cutter.They would last longer than HSS as well.

Dave

[RayG]

Ray will be on a steep learning curve as it is.
Dave

Yes correct, cutting T slots with the shaper is a fair way down the track, from where I'm starting. For Joe's job just getting it properly flattened will be a good exercise.

From Joe's description it sounds like I'll need to get the crane setup just to position it..

Regards
Ray

[jhovel]

Two or three people can fit it onto the shaper table no problem, Ray. To lift it onto the grinder table you would need the engine crane because you would have to reach across - and its too heavy for that.
I was only dreaming about the T-slots - that was not a request.
I expect to drill and tap a few holes into it to fasten welding clamps etc onto the top as needed.

Joe

[Brett22]

Im Probaly a little late now, but if you are still interested I have a couple of used bearings at work (see photo) they are self aligning but with a bit of creative thinking you could get around that.

[jhovel]

Thank you very much Brett! It looks like this beating might actually be too big...
In any case the large truck bearing I now have - in combination with a large car wheel bearing I already had will work out nicely I believe.
But someone else may have a use for such a massive self-aligning bearing.

Cheers,
Joe

[Com_VC]

I would hate to see the price for something like that new. Any ideas what it would be worth?

[Stustoys]

What a great door stop, assuming you have a rather large door.
Any idea what it weighs?

Stuart

[Brett22]

Its an SKF explorer series bearing, we get them discounted because we deal with so many, but even then that size will set you back close to $5000.
On some of our larger machines the drive shaft will be 600mm in diameter with a 1m diameter bearing to go with it, those bearings cost around $30,000.

[Brett22]

Here is a shot of one of the large bearings i was refering to.

[Sterob]

Out of interest, we use roller bearings for a rotary air heater at the power station I work at. The ID of the bearing is about 1000mm and the rollers are about 100mm in diamter and about 250mm long.
The bearings don't get changed very often and I don't know how much they cost. The RAH itself is about 20m in diamter and spins at 1.1 RPM.

sterob

[Stustoys]

Hi Brett,
Great stuff, if only I could think of an excuse for needing one :)

Hi sterob,
How many mW? I was in morewell a couple of months back and took SWMBO for a quick look see around a few of the power plants. I forget just how big they are.

Stuart

[Sterob]

Hi sterob,
How many mW? I was in morewell a couple of months back and took SWMBO for a quick look see around a few of the power plants. I forget just how big they are.
Stuart

Muja is the biggest power station in WA, but small compared to power stations in the East, I think.
We have 4 x 60MW, and 4 x 200MW units.

[jhovel]

This thread got a bit side tracked in the interim....

Over the past coouple of days I managed to figure out a design within my capabilities and started some machining on my horizontal milling machine with my "milling table lathe tool holder".
Firstly, a bearing carrier for the large truck wheel bearing was fashioned form a car disk brake rotor. This was selected for its inner hub recess to be just a littel smaller than the outside diameter of the big bearing. It happened to be a fairly hefty ventilated disk that I decided to split. I used the trust 4" angle grinder to cut through the ventilation fins and then trued that surface. I now have a spare 11" cast iron ring with some short fins on it for a future project. After all the effort involved, I'm not sure any more why I did that....
Its visible under the bearing on the left in the picture.
I then reduced the disk diameter to suit the ring on the underside of my heavy cast iron table (in Post #14) and reduced the depth of the hub end to just clear the recess in the table. That's when I took the photos.
Next I bored the inside diameter to suit the bearing.
I've also truned a steel collar and dust shield to mount the inner bearing cone on a central piece of 3"NB steel pipe. Photos to follow when it starts looking like something.
Cheers,
Joe
http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7896-top-bearing-carrier.jpg

[jhovel]

Top bearing carrier completed.... more probably tomorrow.

Vertical mount with inner bearing cone support
http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7900-bearing-collar.jpg

Inner cone fitted
http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7899-inner-cone-fitted.jpg

Outer race and table hub trial fitted (no mounting holes drilled in flange yet)
http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7898-outer-carrier-fitted.jpg

[Stustoys]

Looking good Joe. Don't drop it on your foot.

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Joe,

Coming along nicely..

Regards
Ray

[jhovel]

It's all coming together nicely now....
Cast table top turned out to be cast steel not cast iron once I drilled it for the spindle....
I had a go at sand blasting it myself and made next no no impression. So so the local sand blasters made a good job of it.
The frame came together OK after the spindle was sorted.
A bit of cold gal is drying now - ready for a lick of gloss.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7961-positioner1.jpg http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7962-positioner-frame1.jpg

[jhovel]

Painted and big top bearing with bearing housing fitted....
http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/61256-jhovel/albums/thread-images/7969-hammertone.jpg

Spindel will go in after table is machined...

Next are some universal holding arms to bolt on and some welding 'birds'
Joe

[Dave J]

Looks good Joe,:2tsup:
Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but are you going to have something like a spring loaded coper piece onto the disk to carry the earth?

Dave

[jhovel]

I was thinking of a copper swivel of some sort at the bottom of the spindle (which will be bolted to the underside of the table).
I will not send any current through the bearings - if that's what you are considering cautioning me about).
Cheers,
Joe


Looks good Joe,:2tsup:
Not sure if it has already been mentioned, but are you going to have something like a spring loaded coper piece onto the disk to carry the earth?

Dave

[Dave J]

I was thinking of a copper swivel of some sort at the bottom of the spindle (which will be bolted to the underside of the table).
I will not send any current through the bearings - if that's what you are considering cautioning me about).
Cheers,
Joe

Hi Joe,
I no wasn't thinking that, and only brought it up because I had seen some good ideas on the Garage Journal not so long ago for rotating welding tables. I could chase them up for you if your interested?

Dave

[jhovel]

Well, the rotating welding table is finished. The holders and univeral arms are yet to come.
I spent a day at RayG's workshop yesterday and he and Josh planed the table surface for me and allowed me to use their mill to machine the edges.
A beautiful joib!
Welding table - rotating - YouTube

Video of the planing operation was posted here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/your-latest-project-121056/index9.html#post1450518). and here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/your-latest-project-121056/index10.html#post1450646)

Thanks to all who contibuted: John, Phil, Ray, Josh and ideas from another half a dozen mebers!:2tsup:
The generosity of spirit, expertise and access to specialist skills and equipment through this forum is amazing!:U

Joe

[BobL]

Looks good Joe,

I'm working on my welding table right now. Nowhere near as fancy as yours but it should work for me.

[Michael G]

I'm sorry Joe - that just won't do.
You've made a beautiful job of the table (well made, solid, robust) but power supply just looks out of place. You'd better go buy a bigger more purposeful looking one.

Michael

[RayG]

Hi Joe,

Nice work, that's come up a treat.. :2tsup:

That should be good for many years of service. If the top get's a bit beat up over time you can always bring it back for a re-surfacing... :)

Regards
Ray