Hollowing Tools

[Simon-UK]

Chaps, (and ladies)

I just wanted to sound you out on the wonderful world of hollowing tools. I have recently dipped my inexperienced toe into the world of hollow forms / deep boxes etc. The 'instructor' at the club lent me a couple of different tools to have a go with:

Hollowing Tools - 'Tips'
First I tried a multi-tip style scraper similar that to Robert Sorby make. Even for a small (4"dia x 8"dp) vessel I found this a bit light weight. I also tried the Kelton hollowing tools with an Exocet handle. These I thought were very much more up to the job although obviously this is reflected in the price.<O:p</O:p

Handles
I am not impressed with the standard handles sold by the likes of Kelton / Oneway etc as the grub screws will surely chew up the shafts of the inserts and it seems a really nasty solution to me. Since the Kelton tools are 1/2" dia then I am looking at doing something with a 1/2" router collet, machine a housing from steel and let it into a oak handle. Will this be heavy enought for a handle or would you recommend boring the other end of the handle and glue and cap a lump of lead or similar in there?<O:p</O:p

Any comments / experiences would be really useful / interesting.<O:p</O:p


Simon.<O:p</O:p

[westpest]

Hi Simon

Try doing a search for "Vermec Hollowing Tool" this is a very substantial set and they also make one called "The Ultimate Hollowing Tool" which uses a gate assembly on the banjo to eliminate dig-ins. Worth a look

DanF

[Darrell Feltmate]

Simon

I like a standard inerted tip tool with a 5/8" shaft for hollowing, 1/2" if need be. I am working on forms usually to 7" deep and 4" to 6" across but have done larger. I use set screw or grub screws to hold the shafts in my arm braces and have ne problem with them. If a scar gets in the way of a proper fit, which has not happened, I will swipe it with a file and get back to work. For $5.00 to $10.00 a tool they make sense to me.

_______
Darrell

[Turner Corner]

Simon,

I have been using one of Rolly Munro's hollowing tools for about a year and find it to be excellent. Rolly is a turner from New Zealand who sells some tools for hollowing. The tool can be seen on the following site:
http://www.rollymunro.co.nz/index.html
Not sure if it is available in the UK but I find it to be a most versatile tool. It comes with attachments to get the cutting head in around corners and is easy to sharpen and adjust. Rolly also sells an extension bar which adds another 800mm to the length of the tool for those really deep cuts. I made a heavy handle for the extension to take up any vibration.
Maybe worth considering?

[Little Festo]

I would also reccommend the Rolly Munro tool. It works really well and can really remove a lot of wood quickly and set to cut more finely when thining the walls down. I haven't used the Vermac tool but have hear some good reports.

All the Best Peter

[Cliff Rogers]

G'day.

I use the Vermec Hollowing Tool system. I don't have the latest one but have seen it demonstrated & would like to get it but I have trouble justifying another Hollowing Tool at this stage when the one I have is doing the job.

The Vermec Hollowing Tool is a steel bar with a flat edge to go on the rest & the cutting tip is/are removable, adjustable scrapers that are held on with an allen key screw clamp. You have a choice of a round or square cutting tip & it can be adjusted to any angle & dept of cut (depending on th elenght of the tool insert) that suits the job at the time.

[rsser]

The best hollower is of course the bowl gouge in my view, followed by a scraper of some sort. Or for straight-sided boxes, a heavy scraper cutting the end grain only with a slightly less than square end (when viewed from above; relieved a bit on the side if needed when viewed cross-section).

But if the form is deeper or narrower then ...

I've been using vers. 1 of the Munro hollower, and have found it to be fine for end grain work, and a bit less than that for side grain.

Prob. this is a matter of technique or timber type. I've learned it's important to keep the cutter sharp and to blow out the shavings often. I've once used the Kelton set for an enclosed hollow form and was impressed by their efficiency and their riskiness :-}

[Mikko]

Hi!

Good info here.
Has anyone tried BCT Supercut as yet?
Should be absolutely fantastic.....or is it?

The fact that it can be used for removing substantial amounts of wood in a flash and also for fast hollowing makes it very appealing to me.

Any thought highly appreciated.

Cheers,
Mikko

[gatiep]

What is a BCT Supercut? Any pics would help.


Joe ........the very ignorant. :o

[Mikko]

Go here http://www.toolpost.co.uk/system/index.html
click Turning tools from the menu on left and then click BCT Supercut on the menu in the middle. I have heard that it feels like magic and eats wood like nothing else. No negative reports so far, neither flood of praising reviews.

Hmmm...I guess I need to be the first one then....

Cheers,
Mikko

[Jim Carroll]

Mikko it looks the same as the Robert Sorby tool and one of the Vermec tools but with an articulated head.

The one concern I have with the square bar types is you cant ease the tool into the cut. With the Rolly Munro hollowers they are a round bar and the cutter has a guard over the top, this gives you an opportunity to ease the cutter into the cut then be as agressive or passive in the cut as you want.

With these open cutter types you dont have the initial feel you have to be carefull on your approach not to get a catch.

They can work ok on open forms because you can see what you are doing but on closed forms where you cant see what is going on feel is very important.

Just my 2c worth

[Mikko]

Jim,
I beg to differ....
There is nothing in common with this and the Sorby tool. I have used the Sorby tool and its performance was a huge disappointment really.
The cut in Supercut seems to be more like that of bowl gouge, Sorby tool is a scraper.

I have no idea of the Munro tool really, except the photo on the page. It really seems whole lot different to this one.

I'll take a closer look.....maybe I'm totally wrong.

Cheers,
Mikko

[Jim Carroll]

Mikko it does not matter which brand is quoted they are all scrapers in one fashion or another. Some work better than others and this is also true of the timber used.
Some tools work well on some timbers then you get another tool and they only scratch the surface.
As with all these tools it is a suck it and see approach and as much caution as possible.
The last thing you want is a catch then this handle coming up under your chin.

[graemet]

Mikko it does not matter which brand is quoted they are all scrapers in one fashion or another.
Sorry Jim,
Rolly Munro's tool actually cuts, not scrapes. You get shavings not dust. I have the Mk1 Munro hollower and it works brilliantly, haven't had a dig in yet which is more than I can say for my bowl gouge.
Cheers,
Graeme

[Mikko]

I think I travel to UK to check them out one of these days.
I have seen video clips of this tol in cation and it is nothing like I have witnessed bfore. If I can make the same amount of shavings fly...I'll buy it.

How much are the Munro tools as there was no price on the site?

Cheers,
Mikko

[rsser]

Sorry Jim,
Rolly Munro's tool actually cuts, not scrapes. You get shavings not dust. I have the Mk1 Munro hollower and it works brilliantly, haven't had a dig in yet which is more than I can say for my bowl gouge.
Cheers,
Graeme

Graeme's right; the Munro cutters cut.

That said, the burr on a scraper or an Oland style tool that Darrell's been talking about also cut, esp in shear orientation

[graemet]

How much are the Munro tools as there was no price on the site?
Mikko Mikko,
I can't tell you how much they cost as it is 3 years since I bought mine. An email to Rolly in NZ will get you the information, & I think the Australian distributor is Trend Timbers in Mulgrave, NSW. Try trendtimbers.com.au or rollymunro.co.nz . I don't know if there is a UK or EU contact.
Cheers,
Graeme

[Jim Carroll]

To give you an idea these tools in the Mega set are AUD$300.00 + GST.
The mega set consists of the handle, arm, short and long link, cutter and cutter head. They also come with a spare set of cutters and the sharpening jig.

Now to the question we call a shear cut a scrape by tilting a tool on an angle of 30 -45 degrees, now all of these hollowing tools work best in that angle range. Admitadly some work better than others and remove material better than others.

By using any scraper at these angles you can actually get shavings of the tool the same as you would get of any of the turning tools.

This is all dependent on the timber you are trying to work with. Some timbers you can get streamers flying of and other timbers you only get small peices the same as you would scraping. ie redgum & myrtle

The main differance between a scraper and some of these hollowing tools is the shape of the bit. Some like the munro or the vermec and this supercut use a hollowed out cutter. This is giving you a finer edge at the cutting tip instead of the flat material of most scrapers

The super cut is using a square bar with an articulated head on the 45 degree angle so is it cutting or scraping?

Just my 2c worth

[Mikko]

Too much info and opinions......can not take it all at once.
One thing that is a fact is that the Munro tool is pretty affordable.

Need to buy one...directly from NZ that is.

Thanks,
Mikko

[rsser]

To add to your confusion, I would also research the Kelton hollowers if I were you (aka McNaughton), leaving aside the question of handles - also made in NZ.

A lot of prof. turners use them.

[Mikko]

Where to get one/set/what ever the bundle might be.....
Keen I am.:-)

M

[rsser]

Suggest you buy the Munro, if that's what you're asking about, from Jim Carroll - see the url on his post on this thread. Jim will give you excellent after sales advice on using the tool.

If it's the Kelton you're talking about; don't know, but google to find the Kelton site and ask about retailers. In Australia, see
http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/details.html?eqskudata=IS890&cart=3119063247982636

[Turner Corner]

I was speaking with Tony at Woodworks Book and Tool Co the other day about one of the McNaughton bowl saver rigs and he said that sales had taken off in the US and getting supply into Australia was still difficult. Waiting times in the order of months rather than weeks. I've started looking at suppliers offshore to see what I can get.

[Jim Carroll]

I was talking to kel a couple of weeks ago and he was sending me more information and samples of his tools for apprasial. He indicated that the American market had taken most of his stock and he was having trouble keeping up with the orders from elsewhere. He has realised that he has neglected the Australasian market and wants to change that this year.

Ern you have indicated a liking for these tools can you elaborate on your likes and dislikes and comparisons with other like tools.

[rsser]

I was speaking with Tony at Woodworks Book and Tool Co the other day about one of the McNaughton bowl saver rigs and he said that sales had taken off in the US and getting supply into Australia was still difficult. Waiting times in the order of months rather than weeks.

Yeah, tho we were talking about the hollowers. May be the same supply situation of course.

Jim - I didn't mean to imply a preference or even claim any real expertise. Just that both my teachers - prof. woodworkers - use(d) the Keltons. My tool is the Munro (vers. 1), which I find performs variably; good on end grain, less so on side grain; important to keep the cutter sharp and remove the shavings often. Could you add to this?

I've used the Keltons once on a largish semi-enclosed form, with a long steel handle. It seemed to be easier to remove stock fast, be less prone to vibration and feel overall a bit more composed. Some of the difference was clearly due to the handle.

For a more thorough comparison, see

An Opinionated Survey of Hollowing Tools-Part 1, 2 etc

at

http://www.fholder.com/Woodturning/lyn.html

In another article linked off the same page Lyn M. talks very favorably of the Munro hollower.

[Simon-UK]

It was due to borrowing a prof. Turners hollowing kit that I found out about the Kelton gear and hence started this thread. As I said at the start, I used them with the Exocet handle which was also excellent. I have now got hold of the 1/2" router extension collet so tomorrow's job is to make the handle. I will post photos when I have done so you can all pass comment!!