Kitchen Cabinets????

[macca2]

I have just had new cabinets and benchtop fitted as part of a complete kitchen reno.
The cabinets are U shaped and the overhang of the benchtop is not the same on any of the 3 sides of the U. Is it too much to expect that thay should all be the same. In fact the overhang varies from end to end on one side.
Now that they are fitted, can this be rectified.
If they cant be fixed do I refuse final payment, or where do I stand.

:confused: :mad:
Macca

[beejay1]

I see no reason why they cant sort this out for you. Bottom line however if you are not happy with the work and the overhang is supposed to be uniform on all sides do not pay the balance until the work is completed to your full satisfaction.
Lodge your complaint to the MD then the company is aware of the problem and if they care about their reputation which they should, then he should ensure that standards are maintained.
Soddy workmanship really p....s me off and I never accept it.
beejay1

[arms]

I have just had new cabinets and benchtop fitted as part of a complete kitchen reno.
The cabinets are U shaped and the overhang of the benchtop is not the same on any of the 3 sides of the U. Is it too much to expect that thay should all be the same. In fact the overhang varies from end to end on one side.
Now that they are fitted, can this be rectified.
If they cant be fixed do I refuse final payment, or where do I stand.

:confused: :mad:
Macca
do not pay the balance until you are happy with the job
the overhang should be uniform all round,maybe the kitchen was installed by a subby to the company and if so you should make your concerns in writing to the company for them to sort out
there is no place or reason for poor workmanship in this day and age

[vsquizz]

Just be sure of who specified the cabinet and top dimensions, or who approved them. In a recent reno job I was quick to point this out to the client in the design phase (a result of the clients dimensions). After some thought the client changed the dimensions to give uniform lip around the island bench.However, in the middle of the installation Mrs Client decided she didn't like it. Luckily I had it all in writing.

Cheers

[conwood]

Macca,
Nother thing you need to be aware of when these "experts" fix one thing, they can ruin three others. It the bench top has to be banged/levered off etc, there will be some collateral damage. (as the americans like to say)

Or the long overhang can be cut to match the short..but this may be too short.

Keep us informed.
cheers,
conwood

[macca2]

Thanks to all. The edge is post formed so cannot be cut. I have just had the boss man from the kitchen firm out and he has adjusted all the draws and doors and things are looking better.
However the lip on the 2 sides of the U is less than the lip on the middle bit (sink).
As the only fix is to pull out kitchen and start again,which he is not inclined to do and I am not keen on we are talking discount.
I have had experience with people creating more problems than they fix by pushing, planing, hammering and generally stuffing around
Given that the 2 sides match each other I am inclined to go down this path providing the discount is in $100s.


Thanks again
Macca

[seriph1]

can you supply the measurements to illustrate how far put they are?

thanks

[macca2]

Steve.....the base of the U is approx 1800mm with a 40mm to 41mm lip on the benchtop. The 2 sides of the U are approx 1600 mm each with 32mm to 34mm lip.
Is this what you were after?

Macca

[seriph1]

If I am reading it right, the two "sides" are aprox. 8mm narroweer than the "bottom bit"?

If this is right, How ever did you pick it up? Did the misalignment of the doors and drawers tip you off to it?

[macca2]

It's a long story. When the guy installed the kitchen (he has since been sacked by the firm) he had trouble with the joints in the benchtop etc and I became pretty concerned with all the planing, hammering, sanding and muttering going on. Then the sparky let his hole saw slip a ruined the top of a cupboard he was fitting a down light in. He than cut the ceiling hole for the range hood too big and tried to fill the gap with "spak filler" or similar. It has since fallen out. This was mid December and I heard nothing from either party untill I rang them in late January allowing for xmas leave.
So I had plenty of time to sit there and stew over how many ways I could relieve these guys of the family jewels.
When I was checking the alignment of the draws and doors I felt the difference rather than saw it but now it obvious because I knoe it's there.
In the middle of all this the glass firm came to fit the glass spashback and the return piece around the corner was cut to the wrong size. it has now been replaced but because the glass is from different batch it is a slighly different shade of green.
I am now blueing with the kitchen firm over the benchtop, the electrician over the lights he still has to fit and the range hood he has to correct, and the glass firm over the difference in colour.
Guess what............they have all sent their bills, which I might pay when the work is finished and in the case of the benchtop and the glass will be a substancial discount or they can start again.
Should be an exiting 2005

How'm I doin
Macca

[Pulse]

My mate just had a new kitchen put in. His mate is a kitchen installer and put the cupboards in. They were up for a month before the splashback installer came.

He jacked the wall cupboards up a few mm, like he usually does so he could fit the splashbacks snugly.

Exactly 12 hours later at 2 am my mate awoke to the sound of his rangehood and all wall cupboards crashing onto the granite benchtop and then the floor, oven and dishwasher.

The company sent a building inspector who blamed the wall fixings.. not the dipstick who jacked them loose...

It remains an ongoing saga...

Cheers
Pulse

[seriph1]

OMG!!!!!!

You'd think we were prototyping new rockets or something! For how many years have we been building kitchens in this manner??????????

Bloody hell.

[macca2]

Pulse
At least mine is still where it should be, but after seeing how some of these DHs work I can understand what you are saying.
What happened to the good old tradesman with pride in his work and the Australia fair go.

Macca

[seriph1]

sermon follows:

As a society we have lost a range of elements that when brought together, result in long-term satisfaction.

1. craft - few people actually make things of their own design anymore – someone once said of the Poms, we have become a nation of shopkeepers……simply trading, never making and certainly never designing.
2. Art - we are not a culture that values this
3. now - is when we must have everything, so we spend ages looking for somewhere to do it now for us
4. Cheap - is the only word people seem to want to hear because they are unwilling to do any learning at all about a whole bunch of things that result in getting great stuff.
5. Quality - goes out the door when the above is all people think about.
6. Permanence - businesses can easily disappear and do so all the time, therefore: make it now, for now, for a last-til-we're gone price and standard, rules the day
7. Education - is anti-"now" therefore ......

I think you see where I am going. Sure we all want great stuff cheap. Sure it is good to ensure we get the best price. But how much time do we spend making sure we get apples for apples and those apples are the right ones?

I have only built two kitchens - I have no formal training and the jobs were extremely hard. They were not kitchens like companies make here in Australia, which I think for the most part are bloody eyesores, totally lacking in artful design. These had to give an authentic feel of 19th century French country kitchens with no compromise on facility. Suffice to say there were no rollform benchtops or vinylwrap doors. Both were made with face frame construction - separate, freestanding pieces, different materials for benchtops, some painted areas along with stained timbers. Different knobs on different cabinets and a whole range of other things to create the feel. I shudder to think HOW a client would begin to get a kitchen firm to even grasp the idea let alone deliver on this requirement. But I can almost guarantee one thing - not one of the firms out there when I did these jobs would even think about picking up a book or two and researching the task.

Told ya it’d be a sermon – ok I am going off to scrub the top of a shearer's table before lunch

:D:D:D:D:D

[arms]

not one of the firms out there when I did these jobs would even think about picking up a book or two and researching the task.



i dont know what your experience with kitchen companies is but to label kitchen companies with the same brush is a bit over the top,i have been in the kitchen making industry in my own business for 24 years now ,my formal trade is a patternmaker and the move into cabinetmaking was a step backwards but a step that gave me more skills along the way,the patternmaking gave me a specialised trade that i turned into a useful tool through cabinetmaking,as for no reasearch about jobs i have created many individual peices of furniture for people here in ipswich and in brisbane because of my trade,i was chosen to outfit an entire theatre resturant because of this as there were no formal plans for the outfitting as the client only had the look she wanted in her head and not on paper as would be the case normally ,her breif to me was art deco style and she handed me 3 books about the deco eras and said to me to go for it,7 weeks and $80,000 later i handed the resturant over to her and but for a few minor changes she was extremely happy with the job,she got the look she wanted ,i got another string in my bow,

[conwood]

For those of us who are serious about these things, have the tools and inclination, I suppose in the ideal world we should employ people like tom and work with them during kitchen instals.

tom, you'll be hearing from me soon.
conwood (brisbane)

[seriph1]

Tom, I find your agument proves my point exactly. You were the exception to the rule. You were a patternmaker - a profession in rare supply in this country nowadays and grossly undervalued. How many kitchen makers would even know what a pattern maker is, dyu think? Your statement that you produced a unique fitout again reinforces that you have a level of flexibility, extremely rare in kitchen firms. But having said all this, you use one case to disprove my point - a case that by your own admission is extraordinary.

Pick up any Australian kitchen/bathroom renovation magazine .... it will be filled with firms trying to pump as much product onto the pages as possible - and what are most of them displaying? Great slab-like runs of cupboards with little style and a few stainless appliances. And copycats abound!

Then grab an american (or British) Kitchen magazine, like the ones offered by Fine Homebuilding, Old House Journal, Old house Interiors or This Old House etc. The difference is huge to me.

My experience is 25 years in renovation/restoration advising. Also, I worked as general manager of Nicholas Dattner furniture maker and I design and make 18th and 19th century European country style furniture. I am no purest and do NOT believe MDF has no place in design. I just strongly assert that in Australia, most kitchen companies are devoid of innovation, creation and uniqueness - typical of a manufacturing mindset, over a design mindset.

A look at many of the websites offered as displays of craftsmanship, leave a whole lot to be desired too.

end of sermon

:D

[seriph1]

here are some kitchens from OS magazines I have here - they are representative of kitchens from the magazines mentioned previously.

[seriph1]

more - didnt know the file size limit

[Aussiebruce]

This is all confirming my attitude towards trades workers. If you want it done right for a reasonable amount of money and in a reasonable time - DIY.
One of my hobbies is gormet cooking - I have built 3 kitchens for myself over the years. I shudder to think of how bad things could have gone wrong given all the specialized items I needed/wanted and the fact that I need to work during the day to support my hobbies so that would have left the installer on his own making decisions......