What's happened to Stanley tools?

[Doken]

I've been using Stanley hand tools for ages but over the last few years the quality seems to have fallen off a cliff.
I always used Rabone folding rules but the numbers scrubbed off the back of the last one in a few months, I later found out that Stanley had bought Rabone.
Stanley Power Lock tapes (the chrome ones) have been standard issue for years but a brand new one failed on me in under a month last year, and the 54mm blade in a Stanley hole saw I bought 6 months ago has also just failed.
I've got the impression that Stanley have moved into the mass sales/price segment of the market and that quality has taken a back seat.
Any thoughts?

[andrewr79]

I'd attribute the issue to the "made in china" sticker on 95% of their products.

[Nads]

I was a fan of Stanley tools, but now its all crap.

[Twisted Tenon]

A lot of the wisdom I have come across on this forum says that the standard for Stanley products has been on the decline since the 60's. I often read here where people are advising to buy the pre war (ll) stuff as it was made to a better standard.

TT

[Claw Hama]

It went down hill after WW2, so if you can pick up pre war tools its the better. And yes the later it gets the worse it gets. I have a No4 plane that was built up from several planes picking the eyes out of them, just as a hacker plane, its not bad. I know I have one chisel that I use to cut off nails, I have a couple of stubby screw drivers and thats it. Screw drivers are just mild steel rubbish, compaired to some Sandvic ones I have had and not had to do anything to in 30 years. Even the "cheaper" brands have better quality than Stanley these days.

[jimbur]

I was a fan of Stanley tools, but now its all crap.
It's not quite all crap. Another member has a nice set of sweetheart chisels made in the UK.
However, somewhere along the line pride lost out to profit.
Cheers,
Jim

[dakotax3]

I recently purchased a Stanley Fatmax hammer and Fatmax masonry chisel and am very happy with them.

[Virgil]

Nothing wrong with Stanley. My 1910 No7 jointer is still going fine.

Cheerio,
Virg.

[Avery]

Nothing wrong with Stanley. My 1910 No7 jointer is still going fine.

Cheerio,
Virg.


Yeah, but try and get online support for it from the Stanley website.

[GraemeCook]

Yeah, but try and get online support for it from the Stanley website.


Why should he?? Virgil's 1910 No 7 jointer ain't broke.

It is really quite sad, and its not just Stanley. So many companies spent decades and generations of enthusiastic employees building superior reputations, and then they just throw that reputation away.

Cheers

Graeme

[Doken]

Why should he?? Virgil's 1910 No 7 jointer ain't broke.

It is really quite sad, and its not just Stanley. So many companies spent decades and generations of enthusiastic employees building superior reputations, and then they just throw that reputation away.

Cheers

Graeme

Even sadder is that quality general purpose hand tools are almost impossible to find now, if it isn't made in Shanghai forget it..
I forgot to metion that a few months ago the handle of a Stanley butt chisel disintegrated while I was using it, where do I find a good quality replacement?

[Avery]

Why should he?? Virgil's 1910 No 7 jointer ain't broke.

It is really quite sad, and its not just Stanley. So many companies spent decades and generations of enthusiastic employees building superior reputations, and then they just throw that reputation away.

Cheers

Graeme
Even sadder , there are quite few quite modern companies that built huge reputations for quality and service and then...


I am thinking Hewlett Packard, Qantas, BBC/HardwareHouse/Bunnings...

[andrewr79]

I recently purchased a Stanley Fatmax hammer and Fatmax masonry chisel and am very happy with them.

I think some of the FatMax line are still coming out of england, I know the Fatmax wood chisels still have a "Made in Sheffield" stamped on the blade and are actually fairly decent. Not all items are though - take a look at their coping saws as an example.

I've recently been given a set of Irwin Marples Chisels, the made in china not the others sadly, but they are surprising me with how well they are built. It appears that irwin has outsourced but not sacrificed quite as much quality

[dakotax3]

I am among the first to condemn the maker and origin of poor quality tools and workmanship and I avoid them like the plague. But QUALITY tools today, hand or power, are better than yesterday; an over-generalisation perhaps but it's what I believe. Remember yesterdays chisels which needed the tradesman to carry a mallet around with his hammer so he could actually use the chisels? If he used a steel-faced hammer on them they soon shattered, wooden OR plastic; remember? Remember those light wooden handled hammers whose handles got slippery when wet and broke when pulling out nails? Remember the single pocket nailbags with no other pockets for accessories and their skinny belts and buckles? Remember the heavy single speed power tools with those uncomfortable & unergonomic handles? Remember keyed chucks? Think people.

I am still cursing the greedy bar steward who stole my leather pouch full of Stanley Butt Chisels bought in my apprenticeship in the '70s but it has caused me to consider cheaper alternatives and I found one in the name of Plumb with through-tang and strike cap for less than $20 today, a ripper.

The moral to the above? Yesteryear had only one type of tool; hardworking, longlasting, built for the job. Today we have light duty tools being made to a cost aimed directly at the paleskin shiny bum who might use them as a once off; then they're left to rust away. One problem is you guys aren't comparing apples with apples.

[jimbur]

Dakotax3, much of what you say is true in that the market has changed. But I think the problem in most people's mind is that a trademark which was synonymous with a certain level of quality is not any more.
Cheers,
Jim

[dakotax3]

Agree Jim. So we, the tools buyer, should also keep up with the times and start looking more at tool specification, not provenance or genealogy.

[jimbur]

Agree Jim. So we, the tools buyer, should also keep up with the times and start looking more at tool specification, not provenance or genealogy.
We could do with at least three levels of grading in the labelling.

1 For amusement only - don't bring into contact with wood.
2 For occasional use.
3 A heart tick - this tool may break your pocket but not your heart.
Cheers,
Jim

[scottbr]

Agree Jim. So we, the tools buyer, should also keep up with the times and start looking more at tool specification, not provenance or genealogy.


And we shouldn't always look for the cheapest option. The number of people out there looking for the cheapest option far outweighs those looking for quality. So players come into the market with cheap products and good manufacturers have no choice but to join the race to the bottom. I'm just a DIY guy so I buy a lot of stuff at Bunnings. If I had to make a living with my tools, I suspect I would buy more from places like Carba-tec who I suspect stock better (and more expensive) stuff.

[Doken]

I am still cursing the greedy bar steward who stole my leather pouch full of Stanley Butt Chisels bought in my apprenticeship in the '70s but it has caused me to consider cheaper alternatives and I found one in the name of Plumb with through-tang and strike cap for less than $20 today, a ripper.

The moral to the above? Yesteryear had only one type of tool; hardworking, longlasting, built for the job. Today we have light duty tools being made to a cost aimed directly at the paleskin shiny bum who might use them as a once off; then they're left to rust away. One problem is you guys aren't comparing apples with apples.

I agree with most of that and we need to keep in mind that in relative terms tools are cheaper than they've ever been, but there's something about having confidence in the tools that you use that money can't buy, these days there's always a nagging doubt in the back of your mind, even with brand new tools.
By the way dakotax3, who stocks the Plumb chisels?

[jimbur]

I agree with most of that and we need to keep in mind that in relative terms tools are cheaper than they've ever been, but there's something about having confidence in the tools that you use that money can't buy, these days there's always a nagging doubt in the back of your mind, even with brand new tools.
I'm lucky in a way coming from a small place where you know nearly everyone. For power tools I ask about complaints and returns. People tend to be honest when you see them everyday and know where they live.:D
cheers,
Jim

[Doken]

I'm lucky in a way coming from a small place where you know nearly everyone. For power tools I ask about complaints and returns. People tend to be honest when you see them everyday and know where they live.:D
cheers,
Jim

I generally used to stick to 3 or 4 brands for power tools but I've sacked one of them.
I had a Metabo screw gun and the clutch started slipping when it was about 5 years old, I took it in for repair and the parts were unavailable, confirmed by two different repair shops.
I was left with a $450 door stop, I won't touch Metabo tools again.

[Kyle]

Unfortuantly brands like Stanley, Irwin, ect are keen for a slice of the diy/retail chain hardware stores (you can add powertool brands to that too). Make a poor quality tool, make sure its sitting on the shelf of a Bunnings type place next to their generic brand for only a few dollars more and consumers will go for the 'trusted' brand name most of the time.

I have a full set of Irwin/Marples blue chip chisels. The Marples ones I purchased 12 years ago are so far superior to the Iwin ones I got 3 years ago, same goes for Vice grips and kwik grips. Alot of Stanley stuff is junk now too, although I just paid $45 for a new sliding square, which I reckon was worth it.

You wonder how much longer they can keep trading on their brands previous reputation?

[Grandad-5]

An interesting conversation here. I find myself agreeing with so much of it.
I guess we just have to accept the world is changing and try to adapt.

I'm in the process of teaching one of my daughters tool skills. (She's renovating her first home) She bought a set of the Stanley ergonomic screw drivers and I told her she should be ok with that choice.
Nup...two months down the track and the tip of the #2 phillips is rounded over.

Life is just a bit harder now I guess. We can no longer follow the old brands blindly like we once did.
Now, we need to look a lot more carefully into every tool purchase.
The upside is of course, that prices are way down also. That's some kind of compensation I guess.
Cheers
Jim

[A Duke]

You get what you pay for.
Pay cheap, you get cheap and nasty but if you pay heavy, you get two chances, ether you get what you wanted, a good tool, or you get ripped off.
Some people have been known to up the price so that you think the item is a grade higher.
Regards

[dakotax3]

Doken
I have had 2 Metabo drills, both 750watt one of them a big industrial capacity mother with little use, both bought in the early '80s; and both failed. As written previously on another thread, I was finally able to repair the larger one with a $20 part but only after seeking advice on here. The tool shop salespeople haven't a clue and don't want one. Everyone says Metabo is so good but the proof for me is always in the pudding.

I was shopping for some handtools for a slightly incapacitated acquaintance in Bunnings Millers Rd Altona where I saw the Trojan (not Plumb) chisels; $13 each from memory.

Grandad-5
Low prices don't mean a thing if tools round over and become unusable. I was given a set of Kinchrome screwdrivers a couple of years ago and I am impressed enough to recommend them.

[Grandad-5]

Grandad-5
Low prices don't mean a thing if tools round over and become unusable. I was given a set of Kinchrome screwdrivers a couple of years ago and I am impressed enough to recommend them.

My comment wasn't a suggestion to always buy cheap.
Often I've had the opportunity to compare what I paid for quality tools 20 or 30 years ago with the same quality tool today and am staggered at the difference.

EG: My first socket and spanner set was a months wages in the late 60's early 70's. (Sidchrome) That got me a smallish chest with two drawers and flip-top lid. Complete sets of sockets, open end and ring spanners.
Last week I drooled all over a Kinchrome MONSTER tool box at a local store with I'm guessing 10+ drawers that came up to roighly my chest height full of every conceivable type of tool one could ever want in a lifetime. Each tool in its own little compartment. Heavy grade steel on the box with locking mechanisms on each drawer. Comparable quality in the tools themselves
Cost? About a months wages by todays standard.

EG 2: Theres been much mention of the new Bosch articulated SCMS on these forums. The cost is roughly half what I paid for my top of the range Bosch SCMS purchased about 15 yrs ago and the new one looks like it would run rings around mine. That comparison is in real dollars. Not equivalent value dollars so the cost is cheaper again in real terms.

EG 3: I paid $100 for my first Makita 4inch angle grinder circa 1980. Cost today of a 4" Makita trade quality angle grinder still roughly $100 in todays money.

Buying quality tools today is nowhere near as costly as it was say 30 years ago. So why not buy quality?

EDIT to add: Sorry. One more. I bought one of those Stanley screwdriver sets that come in the black plastic moulded boxes back in roughly 1980 when I opened my first business. Cost me roughly $50. I still have all of them and I've used and abused every one of them. Still going strong.
Thus my willingness to recommend them to my daughter. Result is known. But based on this experience, who was to know you can no longer trust that brand. Cost isn't always a good indicator. Like my first 3 examples. Just because they are so much cheaper than I'm used to, doesn't always mean they are rubbish.
Cheers
Jim

[Doken]

Doken
I have had 2 Metabo drills, both 750watt one of them a big industrial capacity mother with little use, both bought in the early '80s; and both failed. As written previously on another thread, I was finally able to repair the larger one with a $20 part but only after seeking advice on here. The tool shop salespeople haven't a clue and don't want one. Everyone says Metabo is so good but the proof for me is always in the pudding.

I was shopping for some handtools for a slightly incapacitated acquaintance in Bunnings Millers Rd Altona where I saw the Trojan (not Plumb) chisels; $13 each from memory.

Grandad-5
Low prices don't mean a thing if tools round over and become unusable. I was given a set of Kinchrome screwdrivers a couple of years ago and I am impressed enough to recommend them.

Yeah mate.
I've got a Metabo jig saw which is about 15 years old, it's had bucket loads of use and it hasn't missed a beat so I'm still not convinced that the quality of their tools is average, but no spares for a 5 year old screw gun that cost me $450 !!!
You've got to be kidding.
I flatly refuse to buy tools at Bunnings any more, no one in the place has got a clue and all their stuff is geared to price for the consumer market, I bought some parrot beak tile nippers there about three years ago and the tungsten tip broke off on the third tile.
The big question now is where to buy quality tools and who makes them?
I'm happy to pay.

[Doken]

EG 2: Theres been much mention of the new Bosch articulated SCMS on these forums. The cost is roughly half what I paid for my top of the range Bosch SCMS purchased about 15 yrs ago and the new one looks like it would run rings around mine. That comparison is in real dollars. Not equivalent value dollars so the cost is cheaper again in real terms.
Cheers
Jim

My old Elu PS174 is still going strong and still cutting perfect mitres, but yeah, it cost me $900 almost 20 years ago.
For a frag more these days I can buy a bigger saw that bevels both ways, cuts to 60deg and has trenching stops, but I'll stick with the Elu, I can carry it one handed, drag it up ladders and it's built like a truck.
$40 for a belt is a bit rich though. :rolleyes:
My son got married and bought a house about a year ago, he's not a tradie but I thought as a house warming Id get him a set of tools.
I bought a set of Crescent tools in a blow pack case, spanners, pliers, allen keys, you name it, 50 or 60 pieces all up, for I think around $90.
I've got a pair of Crescent pliers that cost me $45 twenty years ago, so Crescent has obviously gone the same way as Stanley, they used to be top notch.

[jimbur]

A bit of honesty would go a long way. I liked the way Makita went with Maktek, cheaper but no pretence.
Perhaps they should rebadge the below par stuff as Stanlite or some such name. However, it does make you wonder if they know themselves what is good anymore. It shouldn't matter where it is made as long as the factory is given the right specs and quality control is there.
cheers,
Jim

[Grandad-5]

My old Elu PS174 is still going strong ...........
That's a name you don't hear much anymore.
That, and Electra Beckum.
Wonderful machines. Or, they were anyway.

Jim

[Doken]

That's a name you don't hear much anymore.
That, and Electra Beckum.
Wonderful machines. Or, they were anyway.

Jim

Elu were bought by Black and Decker a decade or so back who rebranded the PS174 as De Walt but discontinued the design after a few years, to their credit though you can still buy the parts.
The Electra Beckum saws (or at least the one I used way back) had induction motors, quiet, easy to use and well built but prone to stalling in heavy going.
I was discussing this subject with a mate yesterday and he told me that Black and Decker now own Stanley, which would explain a lot.
I can just remember the time when Sher power tools were made in Melbourne, they were built like tanks, virtually unbreakable.
My dad had a small pistol drill which I inherited, it still runs like new, no reverse or course. :no:

[Grandad-5]

I can just remember the time when Sher power tools were made in Melbourne, they were built like tanks, virtually unbreakable.
My dad had a small pistol drill which I inherited, it still runs like new, no reverse or course. :no:

Ah yes, reminiscing time.
I worked for Sher power tools at about the time that Skil bought them out and they became Skil-Sher. I worked in the sales and service dept in Wellington St and was later trained to repair power tools.
Old man Sher still hung around but didn't do much. He was quite elderly even back then. He was there more for staff moral then anything else.
His son Ron was an engineer there. In quiet moments in conversation with him, you could tell he hated the changes taking place. The quality was getting lost.
Ron Sher continued in this field.
At one stage he was getting stuff built in Taiwan or similar and selling as Sher Power Tools. I have one of his drill presses. I bought it simply because of his name on it. I knew he would never put his family name on rubbish. well, that was my theory anyway.
Apparantly, he's now heavily into smaller model making engineering equipment and has quite a range of quality gear coming out of the USA. California I think.
Google "Ron Sher" You'll find it.
Sorry, a little stroll down memory lane. I'm back now.

Jim

[A Duke]

A bit of honesty would go a long way. I liked the way Makita went with Maktek, cheaper but no pretence.
Perhaps they should rebadge the below par stuff as Stanlite or some such name. However, it does make you wonder if they know themselves what is good anymore. It shouldn't matter where it is made as long as the factory is given the right specs and quality control is there.
cheers,
Jim
Henry Ford recognized the problem in his book written in 1920. The engineers are being squeezed out and all the decisions are being made by people with accounting and management degrees who can only see the bottom line. The problem is many fold worse thees days. Businesses are run by people who have never used what their firm or conglomerate produce.

My pet gripe.
Regards

[dakotax3]

Bean counters: knowing the cost of everything but the value of nothing.

[Doken]

It's got me to thinking.
Back in the day an early 60's Holden was cactus at 100,000 miles (160,000 k's), but these days cars will routinely do 300,000 k's or more if properly maintained and well driven.
The steel is better, they are machined more accurately and designs have improved.
Back in the same day houses needed a coat of paint every 6 or 8 years but today's acrylics have improved out of sight and can be left for well over 10 years with only a wash down and minor repairs before a recoat.
Why are hand tools any different?
It seems to me that they should be better, not worse, like pretty much everything else.
I'm sick of it and I'm black banning rubbish tools.
(Sheepish grin) Unless they're all I can buy, a man has to eat after all.

[Kyle]

I liked the way Makita went with Maktek, cheaper but no pretence.

Unfortuantly Makita have also ventured down the same path with their brand (I think the Maktec thing was a bit of a flop). Walk into Bunnings and look at the Makita range. Half the range you probably won't find in any decent trade tool store, for a while they were selling a 18v LXT cordless drill that looked like a cheap rip off.
Makita seem to have varying levels of the same tool, which is an absolute minefield for the novice or unwary.





Perhaps they should rebadge the below par stuff as Stanlite or some such name.

Stanley also have the 'Fatmax' and 'Fatmax Extreme' range of tools. So I would say the old trusted Stanley name has become their 'Ozito'.





Businesses are run by people who have never used what their firm or conglomerate produce.


:whs::2tsup:


I still do believe there is still allot of very high quality tools available today. The difference is the brands and types available today compared to 30-40 years ago is absolutely massive.

[NZStu]

Fatmax really is a terrible name. It just doesn't sound like it would be anything associated with quality. Maybe something with unusually bulky handles? or named after an obese chippy called Max?

The problem with companies where accountants run the show is salami tactics: Small production changes that save costs at the expense of a tiny drop in quality, repeated over and over again until you end up with the rubbish we see today...

[jimbur]

Unfortuantly Makita have also ventured down the same path with their brand (I think the Maktec thing was a bit of a flop).
I still do believe there is still allot of very high quality tools available today. The difference is the brands and types available today compared to 30-40 years ago is absolutely massive.
Shame about Makita. It shows that you are always driving using the rear-vision mirror.
A long time ago in the UK you used to trust where something was made - Made in Sheffield, Made in England gave you a good clue as to quality. But you had to be careful if something said British Made or Empire Made!
I think it was preferable when the brands went under before they dropped in quality than went the way of profit at any cost.
Cheers,
Jim