Argoshield

[seafurymike]

I heard there is a place in Sydney selling Argoshield in small bottles that you can own. I just gave up my BOC bottle as the $180 rental was too expensive.

Is there anywhere in Melbourne that does the same as I can't drive to Sydney to just pick up a unit.

[bollie7]

This is probably the place you are refering to. Might be worth sending them an e-mail asking the question.

Speed Gas - Home (http://www.speedgas.com.au/home.html)

regards
bollie7

[seafurymike]

Your correct,

So the price is quite good.

D - $309
E - $418

I am thinking that its worth a drive to Sydney to pick up the units. There are a few of us down here that would like such bottles. The refilling becomes an issue, but atleast im not lining BOC's pocket

[morrisman]

My neighbour has non-rental oxy/acet. bottles, he just refills them in town . I cannot recall the company , but it must be a widespread service if you can do it in Warragul. MIKE

[seafurymike]

Really,

Can you get some details from your neighbour?

[jhovel]

ha ha ha.... I've had "non rental bottles" for about 25 years. Picked them up at the scrap metal dealer.
I used to get them refilled at CIG then BOC - until early last year, when they implemented individual bottle barcoding. The next time you take a "non rental bottle" to BOC, they charge you a year's rental in arreaers and a year's rental in advance to be back on their books (barcoded or not!).
If they can trace the bottle, you also get a brief note from the court to say that your attendance is required at the magistate's court in a matter of stolen goods....
Tell your neighbor to be very careful - or let us in on his secret :)
Joe

[morrisman]

I asked him, he said its LIQUID AIR . It's a changeover system . No rental involved . Sounds a bit odd to me cos I have liquid air MIG gas and I pay rental on the bottle ...

I know about CIG and their gestapo tactics . Years ago I took in a pair of bottles salvaged from somewhere and the guy behind the counter freaked out and said it is illegal to own a non-rental bottle . He was most put out and he tried to scare me with vailed threats.

Mike

[jhovel]

Can someone follow up the prices from Liquid Air please?

Oh, I neglected in my previous post to day that I invariably said I borrowed the bottles from a plumber mate and want to give them back full.... ;)
Joe

[welder]

does anyone know what do with "stolen" bottles i have two empty sets in the shed my plumber mate gave me.

[Ch4iS]

Atomic Gas Suppliers (http://www.atomicgas.com.au/)

Another bottle buying company, although its only for NSW.

They may be able to ship it to you as they have it as an option for the smaller ones.


D Size Cylinders refilled for $89.00
E Size Cylinders refilled for $133.50
D Size Cylinders containing 1.7m3 of argon for $309.00
E Size Cylinders containing 4.0m3 of argon for $419.00

Quotes are from last year so may have changed.

[matthew_g]

I am with core gas. I run 5 "G" size bottles with them their fill price is great, Their rental is reasonable and I have the option to pay monthly (which I do) It makes it easier on the hip pocket at the end of the year..
"G" size rental is the same as "E" size and is not much dearer on the fill price for over twice as much gas..

"EDIT"
Remember you can claim these rental expenses on your TAX return as we are allowed to claim against a hobby.
Can't claim it all but some is better than none

[Stustoys]

Hi Welder,
Thats an insteresting case. I'm not exactly sure how BOC could prove that they were stolen. BOC may refuse to fill them but at least in theory BOC will have been paid for them by the person that rented them in the first place and didnt return them, so who owns the bottles after that?


Remember you can claim these rental expenses on your TAX return as we are allowed to claim against a hobby.

Hi Matthew,
Are you sure about that? Doesnt sound right to me.

*edit*
"E Size Cylinders containing 4.0m3 of argon for $419.00"
Damn at that price it might be worth me buying one even if I throw them out!!!!!!!

Stuart

[matthew_g]

Hi Welder,
Thats an insteresting case. I'm not exactly sure how BOC could prove that they were stolen. BOC may refuse to fill them but at least in theory BOC will have been paid for them by the person that rented them in the first place and didnt return them, so who owns the bottles after that?



Hi Matthew,
Are you sure about that? Doesnt sound right to me.

*edit*
"E Size Cylinders containing 4.0m3 of argon for $419.00"
Damn at that price it might be worth me buying one even if I throw them out!!!!!!!

Stuart
Hi Stuart,
My last tax return the accountant asked me if I make any pocket money out of my hobby....Answer yes..Accountant then informs me that this pocket money is included in my taxable income unless I can write something off against it.......Ie; gas rental..
Aus tax declares that a hobby is only a hobby if you gain no extra money out of it..
So the accountant has made my hobby out to be a money pit:D
Well he ain't far from the truth:rolleyes:

I have a link here somewhere that attatches to aus tax with all the garb so I will post this and go and find it.

[matthew_g]

Hi Stuart,
My last tax return the accountant asked me if I make any pocket money out of my hobby....Answer yes..Accountant then informs me that this pocket money is included in my taxable income unless I can write something off against it.......Ie; gas rental..
Aus tax declares that a hobby is only a hobby if you gain no extra money out of it..
So the accountant has made my hobby out to be a money pit:D
Well he ain't far from the truth:rolleyes:

I have a link here somewhere that attatches to aus tax with all the garb so I will post this and go and find it.

Now I have just read this again 3 times and I can see exactly where my accountant has found a loophole.
As long as I'm allowed to claim things against my hobby Ima gunna claim..


http://www.woodworkforums.com/mhtml:mid://00000036/%21http://www.startupsmart.com.au/images/M_images/emailButton.png (http://www.startupsmart.com.au/finance/tax/2010-12-01/entrepreneurs-warned-over-business-and-hobby-definitions.html#)
http://www.woodworkforums.com/mhtml:mid://00000036/%21http://www.startupsmart.com.au/images/M_images/printButton.png (http://www.startupsmart.com.au/management/legal-matters/2010-12-01/entrepreneurs-warned-over-business-and-hobby-definitions.html?pop=1&print=1&tmpl=component) Management

Entrepreneurs warned over business and hobby definitions

By Michelle Hammond
Wednesday, 01 December 2010

Entrepreneurs must ensure they distinguish a business from an income-earning hobby or risk tax evasion penalties, the Australian Tax Office has warned.


A recent court case in Australia saw a man fined more than $10,000 after failing to declare a business operation with gross sales in excess of $100,000.

The man, who raised and sold more than 1,200 turtles, claimed he was “enjoying a pastime” rather than operating a business.

The turtles were sold in NSW after being purchased from an internet supplier, advertised via the internet and payments were received in both cash and direct deposit to a bank account.

The man was convicted and fined, including a penalty of $1,500, costs of $122 and an order to pay in excess of $9,000 in tax owed.

According to an ATO spokesperson, there is no simple answer as to whether you are in business or not because it depends upon the facts in each case, which also determine the penalties imposed.

“Penalties are subject to the individual case and individual court judgment.The taxation act outlines the maximum penalties for offences,” the spokesperson says.

“You would normally be considered to be in a business for tax purposes if you enter into an activity with the intention of running it as a profit-making business, and if the activity is carried out in a way that shows it has a significant commercial purpose and viability.”

The ATO says it is important to distinguish a business from a hobby because any money you receive from a business is assessable income, and you are entitled to an ABN.

If you are operating a business which has a turnover of over $75,000 per annum, you must also register for GST.

The spokesperson says there are numerous ‘hobby’ roles which may constitute a business including gardeners, tradesmen and couriers.

“If you are carrying on a business, any money you earn from this activity is generally assessable for income tax,” she says.

“You are generally entitled to claim tax deductions for any allowable expenses you incur in earning this income, and if your activity results in a loss, you may be entitled to offset this loss against other income or carry it forward to offset against future income, and therefore reduce the income tax you might have to pay in the future.”

Sue Prestney, principal of MGI Business Solutions Worldwide, says good indicators of a business include the scale of the operation, whether you keep business records, and whether you advertise.

She says hobbies can also turn into businesses, so it’s important to monitor any growth in income or change in practices.

“Check with your accountant because they will be able to check a list of factors. If there’s any doubt, it’s worth talking to the tax office and asking for their view,” she says.

“However, I’m fairly sure that if you’re consistently making profits [from the operation in question], you’re in business.”

Although tax law does not provide a detailed definition of a business, the following business indicators have been used by various courts and tribunals to determine whether a business exists for tax purposes:



Does your activity have a significant commercial purpose or character?
Do you have more than just an intention to engage in business?
Do you have a purpose of profit as well as a prospect of profit?
Is there repetition and regularity to your activity?
Is your activity of the same kind and carried on in a similar manner to businesses in your industry?
Is your activity planned, organised and carried on in a business-like manner?
Does your activity have characteristics of size, scale and permanency?
Would it be true to say your activity is really better described as a business, rather than a hobby, recreation or sporting activity?

[Hunch]

I asked him, he said its LIQUID AIR . It's a changeover system . No rental involved . Sounds a bit odd to me cos I have liquid air MIG gas and I pay rental on the bottle ...

I know Air Liquide have bent me over on bottles that are supposed to be in my possession, somehow tacked onto the account, all the gas companies are much the same though and bar coding has been in place in this neck of the woods for several years.

Supagas I recall were offering a - buy the bottle option, wasn't particularly cheap, but probably cheaper than driving from Victoria for refills!

Have found there can be major differences in price on gas in the metropolitan area from the same supplier too, which borders on the bizarre.