Deckel Tool Cutter and Grinder

[welder]

there is a Deckel Tool Cutter and Grinder on ebay item

Industrial Deckel Tool Cutter and Grinder | eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160728108941#ht_1223wt_1185)

[Greg Q]

I don't know why Deckel SO grinder owners think they are worth so much. They are a d-bit grinder, made for sharpening HSS bits for pantograph machines. Since pantographs themselves are useless junk* now, why pay a fortune for a grinder like that?

Deckel made a drill bit grinding attachment for these, but I have only seen one for sale (in the UK). Even then a dedicated drill bit sharpener is cheaper.

I have had the chance to buy two of these now, (one for $200) and I passed. And I am a Deckel junkie.

* still beautiful machines, but obsolete and uneconomical to run.

[welder]

thanks for the insight to Greg :B

[Abratool]

I don't know why Deckel SO grinder owners think they are worth so much. They are a d-bit grinder, made for sharpening HSS bits for pantograph machines. Since pantographs themselves are useless junk* now, why pay a fortune for a grinder like that?

Deckel made a drill bit grinding attachment for these, but I have only seen one for sale (in the UK). Even then a dedicated drill bit sharpener is cheaper.

I have had the chance to buy two of these now, (one for $200) and I passed. And I am a Deckel junkie.

* still beautiful machines, but obsolete and uneconomical to run.
Greg
I once worked a Deckel Pantograph for some months, a beautiful machine.It had the D Bit grinder alongside,& used with it. Fantastic for machining steel for plastic moulding tools
Nearly bid on one a while back, however I agree they are a thing of the past.
They could however machine all sorts of complex shapes & curves, but required a lot of concentration, & holding your "tongue the right way" to use them.
I like Deckel equipment, but dont own any of it yet. BT keeps tempting me.
regards
Bruce

[China]

I would love to know whear I could buy one of those useless peices of junk. the last one I tried to buy went for $3,000

[Greg Q]

You need to attend different auctions then. Deckel SO with 20 collets: $200 18 months ago. Pear grinder with stand, collets $600 8 months back. There are several on US ebay constantly unsold at less than a grand.

I never said these were poorly made, did I?

I said that they had limited application for anything but grinding D bits.

Greg

[Hunch]

^^^ Yeah, but you're in Melbourne, the heart of the crumbling, elaborately transformed manufactures empire.:p

I'd wouldn't be buying one, but this was the going price last time up 'ere.

Tool and cutter Grinder, Deckel type 50/69-12190, fitted 100mm dia Grinding Auction (0033-5001315) | GraysOnline Australia (http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0033-5001315/engineering-and-toolmaking/tool-and-cutter-grinder-deckel-type-50-69-12190-fitted-100mm-dia-grinding)

[Greg Q]

Yeah, I guess you're right. But surely SA has or will have its share of manufacturing success stories?

As an aside about these grinders, often the copies made by the other European firms had more capability. Hell, even the Chinese knock-offs have a spindle positioning adjustment- a handy feature which the Deckel lacks.

WRT to crumbling manufacturing ability: I am saving up for the massive auctions when the automotive industry leaves the building. But I will take no joy from it. :(

[China]

It's not grinder I'm after it's the panto graph

[Greg Q]

I think I've seen at least three Deckel pantos on ebay here in the last 8 months, and a couple more at live auction. I went to see an FP2 a couple of years ago and the guy offerred me his huge Deckel panto for free if I paid his asking on the mill (which was too much I thought then, still do. Plus I had no room for that panto anyway. It would have taken up half a garage bay all by itself)

If you are looking for something for signs then they do come up frequently. The die sinker and toolmaker pantos are a bit more rare, and often owned by people who still remember paying $90,000 for them new. Back when a house was about the same.

All told, I think you can buy a nice CNC engraver and do ten times the output with little skill. I am sure that a panto would be neat to own, but then again so would a 32 Rolls Royce. Each requires a rare skill set and uncommon dedication.

If I ever see a good panto I'll be sure to PM you, China

GQ

[Pete F]

I'd wouldn't be buying one, but this was the going price last time up 'ere.

Tool and cutter Grinder, Deckel type 50/69-12190, fitted 100mm dia Grinding Auction (0033-5001315) | GraysOnline Australia (http://www.graysonline.com/lot/0033-5001315/engineering-and-toolmaking/tool-and-cutter-grinder-deckel-type-50-69-12190-fitted-100mm-dia-grinding)

IMHO, proof that P.T. Barnum was right!

Greg aka "Dr Deckel" is quite right, I often see pantographs come up and they don't attract much money. Likewise the grinders also come up regularly, although it would appear to me they go for far more than they're really worth. How they can be genuinely classified as T&C grinders is beyond me, as from what I've seen they're extremely limited with what they can do. It must be that some people are quite keen on securing a very expensive drill bit sharpener for which they have few, or no, required accessories for using it as such.

China, as a matter of interest, can I ask what you're using a pantograph for?

Pete

[Abratool]

Pete
I agree the Deckel " D Bit grinder" was designed for doing just that, & it does a wonderful job of quickly making & resharpening "D Bits"
Yes, D Bits are handy at times for use as accurate hole sizers in a lathe etc & were great on a Pantograph machine spinning at very high speeds.
But, they can be ground freehand, & as a backyard hobbyist how often would one need to make a D Bit ? :rolleyes:
I made a D Bit a few years back out of Silver Steel (Hardened & tempered) for a one off job in a resizing die for a . 218 Bee, but the need does not come up too often. That has been my experience.
Others may like to comment.
Regards
Bruce

[Greg Q]

Here you go: about as good as antos go:

Deckel KF2S die sinker, pantograph with collets, hydraulic feed milling spindles | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Deckel-KF2S-die-sinker-pantograph-collets-hydraulic-feed-milling-spindles-/170778506926?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item27c33136ae#ht_646wt_922)

Greg