GPS on iPad or Android type tablets

[Big Shed]

Have been investigating using an iPad2 or an Android type tablet as a GPS when we go camping.

Whilst a "normal" turn by turn GPS works very well in cities and on higways and rural roads, once you get off the beaten track such as in the Vic High Country they are not really very useful.

Have looked at the Hema Navigator HN5i and similar units but they are all quite pricy for basically a single function unit.

Have seen people using iPads and Android type tablets, such as the Samsung ones, but don't really know much about these.

I know the iPad with WiFi and 3G has a GPS chip on board and they can use the Hema maps as well as the OziEplorer maps.

Does anyone here use these type of devices as a GPS and could they tell me more about them and/or point met to more information?

[snowyskiesau]

Hi Fred,
I've certainly found my Android phone (Samsung Galaxy II) to be as accurate as my GPS (Aldi). Not sure if Tasmania qualifies as 'off the beaten track' though.:)
I think it comes down to the quality of the maps, find the best/affordable maps and see what they run on.
There is some advantage of having a separate antenna for the GPS but there's also the argument of only having to carry a single, multi purpose device.

[Waldo]

G'day Fred, there's an iPad ap called Mud Map - Outdoor Off Road GPS. You'll find it in the iTunes store. Maps are stored so if you don't have a connection via WiFi it doesn't matter.

Copying what's written up about it, " Simply brilliant! Smart Topo (whatever the heck that is) is highly detailed" - Australian Geographic Outdoor. "Besy GPS app" - Australian Hunter.

:2tsup:

[Big Shed]

Thanks Geoff, one of the reasons I am investigating another GPS is that not only can't the Hema off-road maps be used on my Aldi GPS, the Aldi has actually stopped working!

Although I have the warranty I can't locate the original receipt.

The Hema maps are somewhat different from the turn by turn type of GPS navigation, such as on our Aldi units, you actually get a normal map on the screen and it shows your location on it. They show 4wd only tracks as well as heaps of points of interest.

You can also get the complete Camps Australia 6 book of free camping spots to load on our GPS.

I could buy a generic Chinese 7" GPS off Ebay that runs WinCE and use that, and I still may. Some of these units have Bluetooth, reversing camera input and a heap of other functions as well and most can actually run the Hema maps etc. Most sell for around the $100 mark.

The idea of using an iPad or similar came about as these could be used to replace my notebook whilst travelling and they offer a biger screen.

[Big Shed]

G'day Fred, there's an iPad ap called Mud Map - Outdoor Off Road GPS. You'll find it in the iTunes store. Maps are stored so if you don't have a connection via WiFi it doesn't matter.

Copying what's written up about it, " Simply brilliant! Smart Topo (whatever the heck that is) is highly detailed" - Australian Geographic Outdoor. "Besy GPS app" - Australian Hunter.

:2tsup:

Thanks Chris, my biggest problem is that I don't understand the Apple world, or indeed the Android world, don't know anything about iTunes either!:rolleyes:

So I am trying to gather as much info as possible to make an informed decision.

I'll have a look at Mud Maps, thanks.

[Waldo]

Found a link to make it easier Buy Elevation Topographical Maps of Australia, 4x4 Off Road GPS Maps & National Park Trail Maps - MUD MAP (http://www.mud-maps.com/)

[BobL]

G'day Fred, there's an iPad ap called Mud Map - Outdoor Off Road GPS. You'll find it in the iTunes store. Maps are stored so if you don't have a connection via WiFi it doesn't matter.

Copying what's written up about it, " Simply brilliant! Smart Topo (whatever the heck that is) is highly detailed" - Australian Geographic Outdoor. "Besy GPS app" - Australian Hunter.

:2tsup:

I don't understand how can it work out where it is using wifi. My understanding is these systems cannot work out position unless they triangulate with telephone towers. With phone based GPS I always worry about the cost of running something like this. The sorts of users who make the most of this are unlimited data users but they never know how much data they use.

[Big Shed]

I don't understand how can it work out where it is using wifi. My understanding is these systems cannot work out position unless they triangulate with telephone towers. With phone based GPS I always worry about the cost of running something like this. The sorts of users who make the most of this are unlimited data users but they never know how much data they use.

Bob, that was my first reaction too! Hoewver the iPhone, iPad and Android tablets have a GPS receiver chip bult in and work with internaly stored maps, eg those you get from Hema, Mud Map, VMS ad a host of other providers. They don't use 3G or WiFi, it is just that the GPS receiver chip is only on those models that have 3G and WiFi, which is where the confusion arises

I am just starting out on this journey of discovery so that is about the extent of my knowledge.

Have a read of the MudMap info in Waldo's link above.

[Waldo]

iPads etc. including the phones have in built GPS tracking via satelite etc. A normal phone doesn't need WiFi (such as mine) and it triangulates with phone towers to know what location I'm in.

[Big Shed]

Found a link to make it easier Buy Elevation Topographical Maps of Australia, 4x4 Off Road GPS Maps & National Park Trail Maps - MUD MAP (http://www.mud-maps.com/)

Their blurb sounds very good, but their feedback in iTunes is not so good:no:

[Waldo]

It's what I could find in about 5 mins. There are lots out there, the fun is finding them - reviews count too. :2tsup:

[BobL]

OK thanks for the update.

I have a question for all you GPS gurus. I have a 3GS iphone and Garmin Nuvi 3750 and am heading to Europe twice this year. What would you recommend, Garmin for iPhone, or buy the Europe maps for my 3750 ? if I could reduce the amount of gadgets I have to carry I would be prepared to tolerate a reduced nav performance

[Acco]

OK thanks for the update.

I have a question for all you GPS gurus. I have a 3GS iphone and Garmin Nuvi 3750 and am heading to Europe twice this year. What would you recommend, Garmin for iPhone, or buy the Europe maps for my 3750 ?

Whilst I don't have Garmin on my iPhone, I do have Tom Tom on both my iPhone 4 and iPad 2 and they work brilliantly. Would have no hesitation in recommending if for iPhone 4 and upwards as I have heard that the 3GS has problems and shuts down constantly.

So it may pay for you to do a bit more research in regards to compatibility with the 3GS iPhone.

[Scott]

Hi Fred, I'm probably a bit late on this however for Apple I'd recommend Mud Map or VMS 4x4. You can find them on iTunes app store, just click the following link which will take you there:

iTunes Off Road GPS Apps. (http://ax.search.itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZSearch.woa/wa/search?entity=software&media=all&restrict=true&submit=seeAllLockups&term=off+road+GPS+navigation)

Hope this helps :)

[bsrlee]

Phone based GPS units have 'regular' GPS functions that use satelites only, and 'A-GPS' or Assisted GPS, which uses phone towers and the data capacity of your phone. You can turn A-GPS off on all phones I have looked at, so you don't end up with horrendous data charges on your phone bill, and the regular GPS features still work fine.

The 'advantage' of A-GPS is that it can usually give you a fix in densly built up areas like major CBD's where the GPS chip cannot find more than 2 satellites due to high buildings or other interference - regular GPS needs 3-5 or more satellites 'visible' to the reciever.

As for the tablet (I Pad and Android) versions, you will probably find that the 'free' versions ( such as Google Earth) all need a data connection to down load detailed maps which they then don't save (at least for the ones I have looked at), where the more expensive GPS programs allow you to download and save maps.

A free Android app. that is lots of fun is Google Sky - a star map application that shows where the stars & planets would be if you could see them thru the ground, walls or ceiling. No use for ground navigation but fun to whip out at parties.

[sjm]

I used a Garmin e-trex for a while, but it has been replaced by my Android phone. I love it, and would never consider going back to a dedicated GPS unit. I have GPS, maps, camera, SMS, email, web, phone all in a unit the size of a credit card. Battery lasts about 24 hours when saving a continous GPS track, and I use an in-car charger for long vehicle trips, or a 6" solar panel when hiking. You certainly do not need phone coverage to use the GPS.

[Big Shed]

Thanks for all the feedback guys.

From what I have been able to gather there are a lot more GPS apps for iPhone/iPad then there are for Android devices.

MudMaps seems to refer only to iPhone on their website and in their video, but VMS 4x4 refers to both.

There appear to be a few others, but a lot of those appear to be aimed at the turn by turn city/highway market. Not much use in the High Country or the Simpson Desert!.



I used a Garmin e-trex for a while, but it has been replaced by my Android phone. I love it, and would never consider going back to a dedicated GPS unit. I have GPS, maps, camera, SMS, email, web, phone all in a unit the size of a credit card. Battery lasts about 24 hours when saving a continous GPS track, and I use an in-car charger for long vehicle trips, or a 6" solar panel when hiking. You certainly do not need phone coverage to use the GPS.

Thanks sjm, could you tell me where you sourced your app and maps? Which Android phone are you using these on and would it work on an Android tablet?

[BobL]

I used a Garmin e-trex for a while, but it has been replaced by my Android phone. I love it, and would never consider going back to a dedicated GPS unit. I have GPS, maps, camera, SMS, email, web, phone all in a unit the size of a credit card. Battery lasts about 24 hours when saving a continous GPS track, and I use an in-car charger for long vehicle trips, or a 6" solar panel when hiking. You certainly do not need phone coverage to use the GPS.

I guess to some extent it depends how you travel. I nearly always hire cars and my carry on is a dedicated laptop/camera bag with space for a laptop, DSLR and a couple of extra lenses and sometimes a tripod, so throwing in a wafer thin GPS is no big deal. I've also taken suitcases full of timber, tools and chainsaw parts in checked luggage so I am almost always already overloaded.

I do like the idea of using a single device especially for something like hiking but one thing that always worries me about single devices is, because it always has to be with the user, the device is constantly plugged and unplugged in and out using those mini-usb ports or even the standard plugs on mobile phone dozens of times a day. I have already rooted two of these and they cost me a mint to fix. It's OK for people like my son who changes his phone nearly as often as his socks but I like to keep my stuff for 3-5 years. The newer Garmin GPS connectors seem to much better than those on most phone plugs I have seen. I wish mobile phones had that sort of system rather than those dickie plugs that get full of clothing lint and grit.

There are some interesting HF power recharge systems about to surface that are contactless and combined with blue tooth coms could solve that problem. My guess is the greenies will have a dummy spit when they cotton onto it but lets hope they leave it alone.

The other advantage of multiple devices is if you lose it you don't lose everything.

I just tried to buy Garmin Western Europe Map for iPhone and it won't let me, "only for sale in the US it said"????

[Black Ned]

Attention: Big Shed
You mentioned that you GPS stopped working.
Have you tried to reset it.
Should have a reset button that you poke with a ballpoint pen or wooden skewer. If the unit hasn't been connected to power then you may have to charge it first before a reset can take place. If it still has power then it should reset immediately.

Hope this is of use,

regards Ned Black

[Big Shed]

Attention: Big Shed
You mentioned that you GPS stopped working.
Have you tried to reset it.
Should have a reset button that you poke with a ballpoint pen or wooden skewer. If the unit hasn't been connected to power then you may have to charge it first before a reset can take place. If it still has power then it should reset immediately.

Hope this is of use,

regards Ned Black

Thanks BN, yes I have reset it (several times), it was actually working earlier in the day, when I switched it back on (fully charged as it was connected to cig lighter socket) it wouldn't work on Navigation. All other icons on the front menu appear to work.

Might try loading software agian, I backed that up to the computer (yes I did RTFM when I first got it!:D)

Looking at buying a 7" generic GPS on Ebay running WinCE so I can load OziExplorer and Hema maps.
These have Bluettoh and lots of other options and only cost between $85 and $150 complete with wireless reversing camera.

Sort of given up on the Android route as there is very little off-road mapping software for that platform and after borrowing daughters' iPad it seems a little large to use as a GPS.

The journey continues.

[Big Shed]

Made a decision to go for one of the generic 7" GPS units out of China, on Ebay.

These are almost like a Swiss Army knife, they have that many functions.

The unit I settled on has a 7" screen, runs iGo turn-by-turn software (supplied), has Bluetooth for handsfree mobile phone operation, this can go through the car radio via FM, it can load and show photos, videos, read Ebooks to you (still looking for the coffeemaker!:rolleyes:)

Ordered and paid for on 17/2 ($A84.59 inc postage), despatched 19/2, arrived yesterday 23/2.

What I have seen so far is very impressive, just working out how to get OziExplorer to work with the internal Windows CE6 operating system, once that is sorted it will be able to read, and follow, external maps such as Hema maps (which are absolutely brilliant). I also have the complete Oz 1:250,000 maps for the whole of Australia.

Thanks everyone for all their input.

BTW, decided against the iPad because of cost and size, against the Android tablets for the same reason as well as the OziEplorer software still being in beta for the Android platform.

[Big Shed]

Having learned a few things about the inner workings of these GPS units, I decided to re-visit the problem I have with my 5" Aldi one.

As previously mentioned, it suddenly stopped working, every time I pressed the Navigation option on the Main Menu, it shut down. My computer also couldn't see it as an external drive anymore.

Had a look at the Main Menu and found the Setting option, this leads to other options one them being USB.
When I pressed this I found it was set to MS ActiveSync, the other option being Mass Storage, selected that and hey presto my computer now saw the GPS as an external drive again via the USB connection.

When I first got this unit I downloaded the software to my computer as a backup, I now decided to go for broke and delete the software from the GPS and copy my backup to the GPS.

What do you know, it works again as advertised, don't ask what happened but it is fixed again.

So if you have a GPS, backup the software!

[snowyskiesau]

I backed up the software on my Aldi GPS pretty soon after I bought it as I wanted to 'hack' it a bit (see http://fixmygps.info).
I've had to restore a few things when I've broken them :)

I've been caught out by the MS Sync setting too, even less useful when you run Linux.

[Big Shed]

The 7" GPS I now have runs iGO8, whereas my 5" Aldi GPS runs iGO Primo. They seem similar, in fact I updated the street maps on the 7" with the (later) maps from my Aldi one. Only thing I haven't been able to duplicate is the Aldi shows where traffic lights are which makes it easy to see at a glance where you need to turn, ie not this set of lights but next set of lights.

I now have both iGO8 and OziExplorerCE running on the 7" GPS as well as Camps6 POI/WPT files on both those platforms. It is easy to switch between street navigation and moving map navigation and now basically have all the functionality of the Hema (5") Navigator which sells for $799 at a fraction of that cost.

Very happy so far.

[Big Shed]

Some map screen shots as they (almost) appear on the GPS, these are from the PC version of OziExplorer.

205846

205847

[arose62]

More of a vent, now that you seem to have found your answer(s).

I have a Samsung Wave phone, and one of the (several) problems is that the GPS takes about 15 minutes to lock onto position. And that's with trying the hints and tips from other disappointed Samsung phone users on various forums, and sitting still, outside, in the middle of a cricket ground.

We've got a TomTom, which works well, but I really miss my first GPS - a rubber cased Magellan which showed a breadcrumb trail in black and white on a postage stamp sized screen. Sigh....

Cheers,
Andrew

[Big Shed]

Andrew, I have never owned a "brand" name GPS. My first GPS was a 5" Aldi unit worked perfectly and still does. In fact I use the iGo8 maps on this GPS as they are a later version.

The only reason I bought this 7" Chinese unit was that I wanted a moving map facility, not just the turn-by-turn street/highway navigation.

None of the "brands" offer a 7" unit that I could find and the prices even for the 5" units are absolutely astounding, this 7" unit off Ebay with all the bells and whistles cost me less than $90 delivered to my door.

[rsser]

Sounds good Fred. But bottom line, the map has to suit the application and is the starting point.

I got a Garmin Nuvi with the Garmin Topo Aus v. 2 and the latter is a $200 boat anchor, at least as far as navigating tracks in the outback and the mountains go. There's v. 3 out now and it would want to be far better.

Now I just carry Hema paper maps (which are excellent) and use a device to get coords when necessary; the Nuvi provides them, the hand-held Garmin that I take walking/skiing provides them and even the Satphone does too.

[Big Shed]

I have all the Hema maps in digital format Ern, this GPS with OziExplorerCE follows them on the screen. At any given moment in real time I know exactly where I am on the map. Also have the whole of Oz in 1:250,000 scale maps, as well as most of the Rooftop maps.

OziExplorerCE (http://www.oziexplorer3.com/ozice/features/features_ce.html) even selects the correct map from those on the MicroSD card, when I drive off that map, it automatically finds the next one.

Very handy in places where turn by turn software is useless, such as the High Country, Simpson Desert and Birdsville Track.

Oh, and Ozi CE gives heaps of other screens as well, such as a very good compass, altitude, 2 trip meters, the list goes on. Not bad for a bit of Ozzie developed software:2tsup::2tsup: Also have the complete Camps 6 free campsites locations loaded in POI for, wherever you are you just load the POIs for that state and they show up all the Camps 6 campsite locations.
With PC version you can pln your trip on the digital map and then load the waypoint in to the GPS and follow them on the screen.


Mind you I carry paper maps as a backup just in case.

[rsser]

Thanks Fred. Does indeed sound good.

The only real innovation from Garmin recently has been sat imagery, resolving down to metres, so you can see if there's an upcoming flat spot on a ridge or spur to pitch your hike tent. This might also be useful when skiing in cloud.

[rsser]

Hi Fred, I'm looking at a rough costing for an equivalent setup to yours ...

OziExp CE $170
Gregory street maps $75
HEMA Aust. 4WD mapset $179
GPS c. $100

So around $525. Sound right?

[Big Shed]

Hi Fred, I'm looking at a rough costing for an equivalent setup to yours ...

OziExp CE $170
Gregory street maps $75
HEMA Aust. 4WD mapset $179
GPS c. $100

So around $525. Sound right?

Ern, as the GPS unit comes with iGO8 and Australian street maps (same as the Aldi GPS units come with) you don't need the Gregory street maps. I have a copy of those and have never used them.

Your costing on the Hema maps is correct, depending on where and how you obtain the Hema maps.

Ozi Explorer comes in 2 versions, one for use on the PC and one for use on the GPS unit only. If you don't want to set waypoints etc on you computer you only need Ozi CE for use on the GPS.

When you buy the GPS ubit you need to make sure it runs Windows CE, not al of them do.

There is a lot of info on the net, including the OziExplorer site.

[rsser]

Thanks Fred.

My partner offered to give me a Hema 5" for Xmas after another dismal experience, in the Channel country this time, with the Garmin Topo v.2 mapset. Web searches show a worrying rate of hardware failure with the Hema though, and one major retailer reported that they hadn't had 'too many' returns! Not want you want when outback.

[Groggy]

Had a look at a few of these, quite easy to get ripped off. It seems the two competing tools on Apple, Mud Map and Hema 4WD, are "coincidently" the same price - $150.

I've used a free app for the iPad called MotionX GPS HD. It does most stuff and downloads maps. The level of detail on the maps is not as good as the Hema maps.

For on-road use $75 buys Tom Tom which allows you to switch the licence from the iPad to the iPhone at will.

For daily use I have a Garmin 3790T which can also load topos (Hema) for $230 extra. This is an expensive option compared to others though.

[rsser]

Thanks Groggy.

Yes, tablets are another thing to look at. I'm in the Androidsphere with phones and have just ordered a Google Nexus.

[Big Shed]

The iPad is becoming a popular option for moving map type applications.

I actually borrowed my daughters' iPad and found it just to big to use and place in the car whilst driving.

For stationary use it is brilliant and has the additional benefit of not always having to cart my notebook around.

I downloaded a free mapping application for the iPad at the time but can't off-hand remember its name.

I decided to go with the one-hung-lo GPS as the outlay was only $84 delivered to my door and it would give me a very reasonably priced entry in to the moving map world.

Having now used it for some time it is very good, really easy to read 7" screen, the iGO8 turn-by-turn is as good as I was used to on my 5" Aldi GPS and the additional functionality such as bluetooth etc is a bonus as well.
Driving the numerous 4wd tracks in the High Country is now a joy and navigation is a cinch, but I still carry paper maps as back up.

There is a demo version of OziExplorer and CE available for downloading so you can "try before you buy".

I have looked at the Hema and the other 2 on the Oz market, they are only 5" and don't giv me anything I don't have now, in fact I have more.

I would need a lot of convncing to part with $800 for a Hema one, after all it is still a Chinese imprt but re-badged in Oz.

[rsser]

The Hema 5" can be found for $650 and the 6" for another hundred or so from memory. Early Navigators used VMS hardware and announced that on the box; not sure about the current units.

I'd expect most tablets are Chinese-made now.

[cultana]

Many make comment re the Hema 5 having problems. Are you referring to the Hema HN5 not the HN5i which is a different machine.

I have been running the HN5i and had no problems. I suspect the HN5 had a few.

[cultana]

The Hema 5" can be found for $650 and the 6" for another hundred or so from memory. Early Navigators used VMS hardware and announced that on the box; not sure about the current units.

I'd expect most tablets are Chinese-made now.

RACV price HN5i $649 , HN6 $749 : member prices.
$50 savings on each vs RRP
The RAA in SA has abetter deal for members $100 off the HN6 RRP of $799

[rsser]

Yes, Johnny Appleseed say they've had no returns with the 5I. (their price and Exploroz.com is also c. 650)

And I see that there's a beta version of OziExplorer available for Android tablets/phones.