Dust Extractor Experiance

[Simon-UK]

Folks,

Could I ask what your experiance has been with dust extractions systems. From what I can see there are two basic types and everying after that seems to be variations on a theme: There is the fully enclosed 'bin' style extractor and then there is the 'twin bag' type with the rubbish bag on the bottom and a filter(?) on the top.

My question is this. In a small workshop, (1 lathe, 1 bandsaw & 1 12" sander - all in use 1 at a time only) what are the issues to consider when making the choice. Does the twin bag type end up collecting dust on the outside when not in use and then launching it in the air when the top bag re-fills as it is turned on?

Any advice / thoughts would be really useful.

(I know I have ignored cyclone based units. I have assumed they are intended for larger workshops / professional set-ups. I may be wrong!!:confused: )

[rsser]

Simon,

It's good netiquette to search the forum(s) for answers before posting a question :)

eg. see http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=12260

And there are many other posts too.

[beejay1]

in my small 17x8 workshop I use 1 shopvac for table saw,
1 shopvac for RAS,
1 hanging bag type which is used for planer thick and bandsaw.
Also use hanging microclene filter fore airborne dust. may sound a lot but the two shop vacs are built under the benches and dont get in the way.
The microclene really works well.
beejay1

[Gumby]

Simon, you'll get a better response if you post your question in the correct forum. having said that, I agree with rsser, do a search and you'll be have enough reading material for the rest of this year. ;)

[Simon-UK]

Sorry folks - seem to have touched a nerve.

Hands must be thinking faster than brain!

I will have a trawl around and come back if there are specific issues.

Best regards
Simon.

[Gumby]

We forgive you, you're a Pom afterall, so you can't help it. :D :D :D :D :D

Cheers. :)

[rsser]

And we're just ex-cons; specific issues with a 5 minute timeframe we can just about handle ;-)

[adrian]

You're right Simon, you do seem to have touched a nerve. I don't know what the "correct forum" is for your question. If it's Hand Tools and Machinery then all the threads in Woodturning forum that have very specific questions about chisels and lathes (which are hand tools and machinery) should get the same treatment. For some reason they don't. I think dust extraction is germaine to the entire area of woodworking so I think General Woodworking is just as good as Hand Tools and Machinery.

Maybe it's about time we had a forum dedicated to Dust Extraction. Failing that, there are 261 threads containing the words "dust extraction" or "cyclone" so if you have got a few hours you can trawl through them.

You are right about the twin bag system. I have a 1HP unit and it tends to blow some of the very fine dust through the bag and it would also tend to blow away any dust which settled on the outside of the bag. A more powerful unit in a small workshop would probably tend to blow the very fine dust back at you, which defeats the purpose of having it in the first place. You could enclose the unit in a corner of your workshop and install a cheap exhaust fan to vent the dust to the outside.
Like most people who buy one of these units I am keen to convert it to a cyclone but it's all about finding the time. Some of the pictures of cyclones people have built would tend to indicate that you don't need mechanical knowledge or a great deal of money.
Take a look at this thread. It mentions the venting of dust to outside and the use of water to control the dust. If my last trip back to England is anything to go by, you don't have any water restrictions there so it's an option for you to think about.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=11453

[Iain]

Could run it into the downpipes today, no water restriction problems :mad:

[bitingmidge]

OK, now that we've established all of the above:

Could I ask what your experiance has been with dust extractions systems.

Simon, I have a 1200 cfm unit with a plastic bag on the bottom and a filter on the top, usually connected to one machine at a time but if ever I finish the ducting it will hopefully power that system. You don't need anywhere near that for one machine directly connected. I also have an air filter which I run pretty much all the time.

From what I can see there are two basic types and everying after that seems to be variations on a theme: There is the fully enclosed 'bin' style extractor and then there is the 'twin bag' type with the rubbish bag on the bottom and a filter(?) on the top.The twin bag filter does not filter down to a point where your lungs are protected. There are plenty of sites with information ; Bill Pentz's will give you everthing you need to know, plus enough to send you off in a cyclone building flurry.


My question is this. In a small workshop, (1 lathe, 1 bandsaw & 1 12" sander - all in use 1 at a time only) what are the issues to consider when making the choice. Does the twin bag type end up collecting dust on the outside when not in use and then launching it in the air when the top bag re-fills as it is turned on? I would never use a bag filter, and even the pleated ones really need to be used with some care in a confined space, but they are better than nothing.
(I know I have ignored cyclone based units. I have assumed they are intended for larger workshops / professional set-ups. I may be wrong!!:confused: ) There are plenty of threads on this forum which detail mini cyclones powered by vacuum cleaners. At the end of the day, if you want clean air, as opposed to just chip collection, you may consider building one of the appropriate scale for your dust collector, (details for construction are available free on the Pentz site.


Regards,

P

[dazzler]

Simon,

It's good netiquette to search the forum(s) for answers before posting a question :)

eg. see http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=12260

And there are many other posts too.
Hi RSSR

This is a discussion forum not an online library. By all means if Simon wishes to search then go for it. If he wishes to chat then chat away!!!. There are far more views on a subject other than those in the archives.

cheers

dazzler

[Termite]

Hi RSSR

This is a discussion forum not an online library. By all means if Simon wishes to search then go for it. If he wishes to chat then chat away!!!. There are far more views on a subject other than those in the archives.

cheers

dazzler
Dazzler, you haven't been on the forum for very long so you may not understand that there are certain questions that have been asked many many times, and have received good and thorough discussion. The purpose of directing a newbie to a search is so that they can have the benefit of the already lengthy disscussions on a given subject, and then ask for clarification on any particular point.
Then again you may not agree with this point, that is your right, then again you could always appoint yourself as the newbie "chat contact" and see how many times you are asked the same questions. Then you can tell us how long it takes you to start directing newcomers to the vast amount of information stored within this forum.

OK, soapbox put away. (For the time being) :D

[jackiew]

If my last trip back to England is anything to go by, you don't have any water restrictions there so it's an option for you to think about.


contrary to popular australian opinion water restrictions are regularly imposed in the UK during summer. Remember that the population of the uk is large on a small island so a little rain has to go a long way.

living in the london area it was illegal to use a hosepipe or sprinklers to water a garden for several summers in succession.

The local water company was reportedly using helicopters to identify anyone with a suspiciously green lawn and dobbing in your water hog neighbours was just as popular an occupation there as it is here. In extreme cases householders have been reduced to obtaining all household water from standpipes at the end of the road as the water company will cut off supply to homes to ensure that people can't waste it.

melbourne's stage 2 water restrictions are totally pathetic in comparison.

[rsser]

I've always found an informed question gets a more useful response, and reading prior posts helps to frame your question well so you don't have to come back and ask another one.

There are other net vehicles if people just want to chat.

An informed question can be both a heads-up to newbies ('hey, there are issues here I wasn't aware of') and a challenge to the more experienced ('hey, pple are doing different things to cope with the same problem; now I wonder why and whether their solution might be better than mine').

[dazzler]

Well

definately a nerves been hit. I may be new to this forum however I have probably been surfing longer than most.

Heres the thing....on other forums the forum nazis slowly take over until it becomes a club simply for them where others are not really wanted. I would hate for that to happen here.

The thing is if it is so tiresome to left click on a link then dont bother. Save the 3 kilojoules and move on. Its not like simon was tricking anyone and then surprising them with the content.

It was plain for all to see that he was asking about dust extraction. If the subject is too upsetting, your time is to valuable or you are just sick to death of it then move on. This is 1.3 seconds of your life to read the title and another 2 or so to decide so live and let live.

I am rather passionate about this (obviously) as no one forces anyone to
A) view the thread or
B) respond

Sorry to be harsh about this but it is only an issue to those who make it one and they can simply show there annoyance by not reading it.

Welcome Simon!

I'm free to ask anything you want.......do you own a vw?

dazzler

[outback]

Hey ,

I reckon that last lot of happy pills musta had somethin' else in'em. The natives are gettin' wrestless, and I reckon they're out for a lynchin'. :eek:

[rsser]

This forum is an excellent example of an online community of generous souls willing to learn from each other. That's becoming rarer in cyberspace and it's worth a moment's thought surely about how to preserve it.

If Dazzler you want an example of a web medium killed, not by a clique, but by lazy posts there are plenty around.

And if you want to call me a Nazi then have the guts to say so directly rather than resorting to vague generalisations.

And then ask yourself why you played the man and not the ball.

[dazzler]

This forum is an excellent example of an online community of generous souls willing to learn from each other. That's becoming rarer in cyberspace and it's worth a moment's thought surely about how to preserve it.

If Dazzler you want an example of a web medium killed, not by a clique, but by lazy posts there are plenty around.

And if you want to call me a Nazi then have the guts to say so directly rather than resorting to vague generalisations.

And then ask yourself why you played the man and not the ball.
Sorry everyone.

RSSER ....Go to the fridge and get a nice cold drink, maybe add some gin and relax.

Forum Nazi is a generic term used all over cyberspace to describe those who criticise others when they dont confirm to someone elses online rules.

You started this by criticising Simon for his posting and for his offence of not searching. So I am criticising your criticising of simon. I considered it rude and uncalled for. A bit like walking into a new pub and being treated like a stranger.

A helpful and polite way of achieving your goal would have been to say something like;

Hi simon...I have an xyz and thinks its great....there are lots of other views on this and you can find others views here as it has been discussed at length ................regards rsser.

I for one am quite happy for anyone to post anything if it helps them...In the limited time I have been here just about everything has been discussed mulitple times. Just the other day I posted asking about milling cedar.

I am positive that had I searched i would have found the information I needed but using the forum I have learnt how to do it and more than that socialised with others with an interest the same as mine and even found someone who lives nearby and who is willing to actually mill the stuff for me.

Had I done a search then I wouldnt have bothered posting and wouldnt have met great people on line.

So once again this is exactly what I am saying and I am saying it directly to you;

1) It doesnt hurt anyone to ask a question.

2) If you dont like the question, are annoyed that its been asked a million times before or couldnt be bothered with it then just ignore the post.

3) Its not an online library, though it can be used as such, it is a forum for asking and discussing things of mutual interest. As humans we socialise, talk and learn.

4) Life is too short and wonderful to care about such trivialities.

I wont take up any more of everyones time on this and sorry for any annoyance.

regards

Dazzler

[Sturdee]

Well

definately a nerve has been hit. I may be new to this forum however I have probably been surfing longer than most.

Heres the thing....on other forums the forum nazis slowly take over until it becomes a club simply for them where others are not really wanted. I would hate for that to happen here.


Whilst Dazzler may be new to this forum I am not and I agree with him that we don't want any Nazies ( except Rocker who is an honored warp Nazi :D ) to take over this board.

We have had the spelling nazies that caused grief a while back and we don't want any " Do a search nazies " or "Post in the right forum nazies" or the "Get a life nazies " or any other type of Nazies that want to ruin the friendly nature of this board.

Having said that I would like to suggest that it is also a good idea to search first and then ask further questions on anything that is unclear. Also specific questions rather than general ones will elicit a better response. I personally tend to reply to specific questions where the poster shows that he has searched the board first.

However Simon-UK is a newbie and didn't deserve the treatment we gave him. We all were newbies once and a little helpful advice would have been better.

I started my postings with a question and if I was then told to do a search it would not only have been my first but also my last post. Whilst some might say that would have been a good thing I am sure others will disagree with that. :D :D :D

New members and new ideas are the lifeblood of this board and any discouragement when newbies ask questions should be avoided. Who knows they may turn out to be a new jig builder or a dust extraction expert of a hand tool expert or even a sharp wit and foily maker? :D

So Simon welcome and keep asking questions.


Peter.

[rsser]

Sorry everyone.

RSSER ....Go to the fridge and get a nice cold drink, maybe add some gin and relax.

Can I ask you what you thought when I asked you to think about playing the ball rather than the man?


Forum Nazi is a generic term used all over cyberspace to describe those who criticise others when they dont confirm to someone elses online rules.

Hmm, well for those of us who survived, or whose parents survived, the Holocaust, maybe that isn't a term that communicates anything more than insult.



You started this by criticising Simon for his posting and for his offence of not searching. So I am criticising your criticising of simon. I considered it rude and uncalled for. A bit like walking into a new pub and being treated like a stranger.


So you felt your nerve was touched?

You took a statement of view with a smile as critical, rude and uncalled for?

If you re-read my posts, you might find they're about the good of the forum community.


A helpful and polite way of achieving your goal would have been to say something like;

Hi simon...I have an xyz and thinks its great....there are lots of other views on this and you can find others views here as it has been discussed at length ................regards rsser.


Thanks for the advice. I don't aim to get up pple's noses. But after reading the responses he agreed to trawl around and seemed not to have taken offence.

Sounds to me that you've been arguing for your view of how the forum should function, not Simon's.

You want to talk about VW's? - good luck to you.

[Gumby]

I think this thread has run it's course.......

Sick 'em ................ :cool:

[craigb]

I think this thread has run it's course.......

Sick 'em ................ :cool:

I'll second that.

You're both wrong. Go and have a cold shower the pair of you. :D :D

[beejay1]

Gentlemen please!!
i would urge you not to go any further with this as we're beginning now to loose the point and things could be said that are best left alone.
I think the points have been extremely well made on both sides and ive no intention to attemp to fuel the discussion any further as i dont feel its necessary.
The debate was healthy and differing points of view are always interesting but shouldnt we now shake hands and move on to other things.
Anyone up for a debate on the value of the monarchy to the Aussie nation,.... or has that been covered in aearlier thread ?;) ;)
Beejay1

[Simon-UK]

........so, best I don't ask for opinion on the GMC lathe then!!!!

Really, thanks to all who have posted with advice or suggestions for sources of advice. I think I am big enough to deal with a short answer to a daft (or at best vaguely posed) question.

Simon.