Douglas Shaper

[lamestllama]

Hi All

I have just acquired a Douglas Shaper. Something I have long wanted.

DOUGLAS / HERCUS SHAPER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=170784536503&si=aSUzbaXydo2%252FUHwOGpTYxfC0L%252Fo%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3AOC%3AAU%3A1123&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)

Yeah the price was a bit steep but they don't come up that often.


Unfortunately I need some advice and some parts already.

Besides having a very flimsy non original vise I am also missing the handle needed to lift the knee and manual cross travel (the machine came with a modified box spanner). I will be willing to pay any reasonable sum for an original vise and/or an original handle. (I won't be holding my breath waiting for offers but I did have to try).

My other question is how much effort should be required to either lift the knee or use the cross travel manually. With the supplied box spanner (about 6 inches of leverage) I can only just manage to do the cross traverse. Is this what I should expect or do I need to pull this apart?

Regards

Eric

[pipeclay]

The Original handle is only around 6" long,so the one you have should not be a problem.

The Crosslide screw should be firm but not overly tight,the most resistance you should feel should be from the weight of the table.

Similarly the Vertical screw for the table rise/fall should have resistance when raising due to the weight of the table but when lowering with support plate/guide not in place it should be virtually free with no resistance.

A couple of things you could check are,

At the far end of the table Crosslide screw there are 2 nuts and usually a brass spacer,if these nuts are too tight the will put resistance onto the Crosslide screw,(there needs to be a little backlash here) if you want loosen them and see if you can feel it free up.You may even want to traverse the Table from one side to the other and check that there is no foriegn material on the thread.If you do decide to strip the Table tp check the Nut be careful not to missplace,lose or damage the Paper shim that is attached or fitted to the Bottom keeper plate on the table.

With the Vertical travel you can check that there is no swarf built up at the base of the nut where the Vertical screw passes through.Also when you have the Table traversed all the way to the Left when standing at the Front of the Shaper check the 2 Bevel gears that transfer the Horizontal shaft to Vertical shaft,swarf cab build up here making in very hard to turn the Screw.If there is swarf in this location it can be fiddly to remove,if you use any type of cleaning solution try and use something that will Air dry.This will normally remove any oil or grease from the swarf and allow you to easily remove any swarf with either a small magnet,pick,screwdriver or similar small tool.

Hopefully David would of allready made these adjustments and cleaning,as I think he states ready for use.

One other thing to check with the Vertical is that the Clamp for the Table is loose,the clamp is located opposite your feed regulator ( if there is no clamp there check to see that it hasnt been replaced with a Set Screw or similar) .

[Anorak Bob]

Eric,

The original handle is fabricated, not cast. It would be easy enough to replicate. I will post some photos shortly.

Bob.

[morrisman]

Nice :2tsup:

I would have bought that if it was closer . The cost of moving it :?

Mike

[lamestllama]

Nice :2tsup:

I would have bought that if it was closer . The cost of moving it :?

Mike

It cost me only $150 to get it from Sydney to Adelaide. The seller dropped it of at a transport depot. I used Craig Arthur Transport to get it from there to Adelaide. Then $20 trailer hire to my place.

So $170 for transport is not so bad given how much it weighs.

[lamestllama]

The Original handle is only around 6" long,so the one you have should not be a problem.
.

Other than it is absolutely not ergonomic :(



The Crosslide screw should be firm but not overly tight,the most resistance you should feel should be from the weight of the table.
.

It is very very stiff It is very hard to get it to move.



Similarly the Vertical screw for the table rise/fall should have resistance when raising due to the weight of the table but when lowering with support plate/guide not in place it should be virtually free with no resistance.
.

I found the slide lock on this and this is much freer and iI suspect there is some swarf in the gears making it a little notchy.



A couple of things you could check are,

At the far end of the table Crosslide screw there are 2 nuts and usually a brass spacer,if these nuts are too tight the will put resistance onto the Crosslide screw,(there needs to be a little backlash here) if you want loosen them and see if you can feel it free up.You may even want to traverse the Table from one side to the other and check that there is no foriegn material on the thread.If you do decide to strip the Table tp check the Nut be careful not to missplace,lose or damage the Paper shim that is attached or fitted to the Bottom keeper plate on the table.
.

I have about half a turn of backlash on the cross slide handle. I can see the space between the nuts and collar on the end of the crossfeed leadscrew grow and shrink as I change direction (in fact during this change of direction the leadscrew is very free to turn) so I dont think it is foreign material on the thread.

I would love to avoid disassembling this right now as I aready have another machine in parts. I was hoping to use the shaper to fix some of those parts.





With the Vertical travel you can check that there is no swarf built up at the base of the nut where the Vertical screw passes through.Also when you have the Table traversed all the way to the Left when standing at the Front of the Shaper check the 2 Bevel gears that transfer the Horizontal shaft to Vertical shaft,swarf cab build up here making in very hard to turn the Screw.If there is swarf in this location it can be fiddly to remove,if you use any type of cleaning solution try and use something that will Air dry.This will normally remove any oil or grease from the swarf and allow you to easily remove any swarf with either a small magnet,pick,screwdriver or similar small tool.


I am pretty sure you are on the money with this axis. I can see the bit of swarf making this notchy now. I just have to get it out :)



Hopefully David would of allready made these adjustments and cleaning,as I think he states ready for use.

One other thing to check with the Vertical is that the Clamp for the Table is loose,the clamp is located opposite your feed regulator ( if there is no clamp there check to see that it hasnt been replaced with a Set Screw or similar) .

The clamp is a bit agricultural looking (lever welded on to a bolt) but it is there.

Thanks for the reply. It solved half my problems :)

Regards

Eric

[Anorak Bob]

The original handle is definitely agricultural. An alternative could be a Hercus T42 ( as shown ) or T43 handle or a mill vise handle found on Ebay to suit a 5/8" square shaft.

Eric, if you would like a rough sketch of the original handle, I'd be happy to oblige.

BT

[lamestllama]

Hey Bob

Brilliant !!! You where not kidding when you said the original handle was a bit agricultural :)

I don't have welding facilities atm so I will probably scrounge up a Hercus handle (it is a pity they sold all there stock they are about 5 minutes from me).

I also realise that the ram position and tool eccentric handle is 3/4 inch hole (i don't have one of these either) was this just a spanner or did they have a handle?

Also how do you guys inch these things over when doing setups ?(there is no easy way to do it by hand that I can find)

Eric

[RayG]

Hi Eric,

Nice looking machine. :2tsup:

Congratulations on joining the shaper club... you do realise of course that there is a support group for this affliction..:)

If you find youself turning on the shaper, and being mesmerized just by watching it run... then you are hooked.. :D

There is a USB stick doing the rounds, courtesy of Phil (Steamwhisperer) that has a collection of shaper books and tooling... I think it's in Katherine at present.. talk to Kev (woodlee).

Regards
Ray

[morrisman]

It cost me only $150 to get it from Sydney to Adelaide. The seller dropped it of at a transport depot. I used Craig Arthur Transport to get it from there to Adelaide. Then $20 trailer hire to my place.

So $170 for transport is not so bad given how much it weighs.

That is a bargain :2tsup:..the transport mobs here charge like a wounded bull .

Mike

[Dave J]

Hi All

I have just acquired a Douglas Shaper. Something I have long wanted.

DOUGLAS / HERCUS SHAPER | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=170784536503&si=aSUzbaXydo2%252FUHwOGpTYxfC0L%252Fo%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME%3AL%3AOC%3AAU%3A1123&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc)

Yeah the price was a bit steep but they don't come up that often.


Unfortunately I need some advice and some parts already.

Besides having a very flimsy non original vise I am also missing the handle needed to lift the knee and manual cross travel (the machine came with a modified box spanner). I will be willing to pay any reasonable sum for an original vise and/or an original handle. (I won't be holding my breath waiting for offers but I did have to try).

My other question is how much effort should be required to either lift the knee or use the cross travel manually. With the supplied box spanner (about 6 inches of leverage) I can only just manage to do the cross traverse. Is this what I should expect or do I need to pull this apart?

Regards

Eric

Hi,
Just check your gib adjustments as it sounds like they are tight as well. From factory they came with a wax type paper between the gib and table under the 4 bolts.

Dave

[lamestllama]

Eric,
ps, ps You might have been asking about the ram. I carefully move mine by pulling on the vee belt.

Yes I did mean the ram. Pulling on the vee belt works ok but is a bit uncouth :)

Eric

[Dave J]

Eric,

The original handle is fabricated, not cast. It would be easy enough to replicate. I will post some photos shortly.

Bob.

Hi Bob,
I am wondering about that, my machine came with a aluminium cast hand as in the picture below. It's also the same one that is pictured in the online manual.
The ram locking handle is also solid cast brass on mine and looks like the one pictured in the manual.

Dave

[Anorak Bob]

You've got me there Dave.:o I just had a look at the parts diagram and low and behold, there's your handle, not the bush mechanic's version I have. I will undertake some investigation.

A disillusioned BT

[Anorak Bob]

Yes I did mean the ram. Pulling on the vee belt works ok but is a bit uncouth :)

Eric


Perfectly stated!

[Dave J]

You've got me there Dave.:o I just had a look at the parts diagram and low and behold, there's your handle, not the bush mechanic's version I have. I will undertake some investigation.

A disillusioned BT


Is your shaper a bearing model Bob? I have parts here from a earlier bushed model and there are differences in the parts.

Dave

[Dave J]

Hey Bob


Also how do you guys inch these things over when doing setups ?(there is no easy way to do it by hand that I can find)

Eric

Hi Eric,
Your model is a clutch model like mine, so you can make a handle up with a pin drilled across it to go into the centre of the large pulley to wind it over after the clutch is disengaged. It has a a hole in the clutch cover so I am presuming it's for that.

To use you ram scale you have the ram at the rear position and it will give you the accurate stroke length.

Dave

[Anorak Bob]

Is your shaper a bearing model Bob? I have parts here from a earlier bushed model and there are differences in the parts.

Dave


Mine is a clutchless ball bearing model. It has a warning in the form of a paint splattered transfer stating that No. 2 Fibre Grease must be used in all ball bearing spindles NOT OIL. The serial number is B/171/1710.

I should pull my spindles apart and relube them, but with what?

I wonder if Jordan has any more modern lubrication information for his Hercus 270. That's assuming Hercus retained the same bearing configuration in their reincarnation of the little Douglas.

BT

[Dave J]

Hi Bob,
Maybe your handle came from an earlier model and was mixed up getting them out of the TAFE's ?
I have mine down at the moment, it started off as a repaint before Christmas but has now grown into a major transformation and repaint. I am about halfway though so will post when it is tried and tested for anyone else to copy if they want to.

I have been through the bearings and they are only standard unshielded ball bearings, but I have now decided I am now going to replace them all. I just used wheel bearing grease as I don't see what harm it could do to the ball bearing. It's funny they have small screws in both housing which looks like oil holes, but it states not to use oil.

Dave

[lamestllama]

Hi Bob,
I am wondering about that, my machine came with a aluminium cast hand as in the picture below. It's also the same one that is pictured in the online manual.
The ram locking handle is also solid cast brass on mine and looks like the one pictured in the manual.

Dave

Dave great shaper pr0n :) But then Bob also made sure I could see his original vice in his photos. I am envious already.

I did just have a go at cutting some aluminium (unknown material) the surface is a little rough but then I think the tool is in a lathe tool holder and I have no actual idea about what geometry it should have.

I am hoping you guys can point me at some sources for cheap tool holders and the like. Also some advice on what I am going to need for the basics (one of my plans is to build a Jacobs gear hobber for which I have the castings so I want to do dovetail slides)

It is a mesmerising machine It tool a lot for me to walk out of the shed and come for dinner.

[Steamwhisperer]

It is a mesmerising machine It tool a lot for me to walk out of the shed and come for dinner.

It's too late Eric it seems it's got you. I will put your name on the rapidly growing list of us who need counseling.
If woodlee hasn't finished with the wandering stick yet I can easily do another one.

Phil

[rodm]

I reckon you guys with motorised shapers are spoilt.
This is my armstrong model and that is why it doesn't get a lot of use. :)
I think it is an Adept No1 or a copy as there are no markings on the castings.

[Stustoys]

Hi Rod,
At least your's will stop if you fall asleep :D
Does it have autofeed? I only ask because crossfeed hand wheel seems to be on the wrong side......

Stuart

[pipeclay]

What type of erganomic handle would you consider exceptable Eric,maybe one of the gerry shops might have something suitable.

[rodm]

Hi Rod,
At least your's will stop if you fall asleep :D
Does it have autofeed? I only ask because crossfeed hand wheel seems to be on the wrong side......

Stuart

Manual feed. It's possible it was assembled on the wrong side as I'm cack handed.

[lamestllama]

What type of erganomic handle would you consider exceptable Eric,maybe one of the gerry shops might have something suitable.

I am going to look around the local machinery places for something like a milling vise handle tomorrow :)

I have been watching videos of other shapers online. It seems that the clapper box is supposed to lift on the return stroke. Mine is far too stiff to do this. Is this a problem ?

BTW I spent 6 hours watching it work tonight. I need another one now.

Regards

Eric

[pipeclay]

The Clapper should move freely,knock the Tapered pin out,there maybe some crap on it or there may be something binding the Clapper on the side.

In regards to tooling the Lock tool holders or similar can be used.

If you purchase this type of holder you will need to make sure that the width of the tool holder is no more than 1/2" otherwise it might not fit through the Lantern post.

Another choice would be to just use pieces of Tool Steel direct in the Lantern,if doing this I would suggest not to use less than 3/8" and prefferably 1/2",as the smaller pieces will not have the strength when cutting.

You could of course make up a new Lantern with a wider slot to accomadate a thicker shank tool of upto 5/8".

You could also make your own tool holders as others have done,this in particular is normally needed when doing Internal work.

When you fit your cutting tooling into your Lantern make sure that the cutting tool is seated at the rear of the holder against the heavy washer and any packing piece is at the front clamped by the screw.

[lamestllama]

The Clapper should move freely,knock the Tapered pin out,there maybe some crap on it or there may be something binding the Clapper on the side.


@Pipeclay thanks for the directions, the tapered pin knocked out easily a tiny burr on the clapper was the problem now it is very free.



In regards to tooling the Lock tool holders or similar can be used.
.
Have you got a URL to anything suitable ?




When you fit your cutting tooling into your Lantern make sure that the cutting tool is seated at the rear of the holder against the heavy washer and any packing piece is at the front clamped by the screw.

I have no heavy washer clearly I need to be making one. Does anybody have the approximate dimensions of the original ? or a clear photo I can scale from?

Regards

Eric

[Anorak Bob]

If nobody beats me to it, I will photograph some of the Lock tool holders that Peter mentions and measure the washer, tomorrow night.

BT

ps. Here is a photo showing the large washer.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachments/f65/157734d1294211741-douglas-shaper-modifications-hercus-slotting-head-ram-guide-ex-175-dia.-x-65-2p-bar-nov-028-medium-.jpg

[Anorak Bob]

The tool post washer on my Douglas has an OD of 56.5mm, an ID of 32mm and is 7.3mm thick.

BT

[lamestllama]

The tool post washer on my Douglas has an OD of 56.5mm, an ID of 32mm and is 7.3mm thick.

BT

@Bob thanks. With that information I can turn one up after dinner.

[Anorak Bob]

Lock lathe tool holders, Lock slotting bar holder and to finish it off, a Lock tool post spanner.

The cutting tool shown mounted is a forged item originating from the WAGR Midland Workshops. It is the tool I have used most often. Appropriate in a way, my Grandfather was a fitter there. The plate shown replacing the tool post washer immobilises the clapper. I made it when I cut some dovetails.

BT

[Dave J]

Here are the Chinese ones available at H&F
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/HSS-Toolbit-Turning-Tool-Holders

Dave

[lamestllama]

Here are the Chinese ones available at H&F
https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/HSS-Toolbit-Turning-Tool-Holders

Dave

I have just ordered a couple of these to get me started, I am still on the lookout for some retro tooling to go with my retro machine.

[Anorak Bob]

Should your pursuit of local tooling prove fruitless and should you have a desire to purchase something not made in China, search for holders made by Armstrong and Williams on US Ebay. Both firms made shaper specific tooling of high quality.

[lamestllama]

There a couple of massive Armstrong branded shaper tool holders on ebay ATM I didn't realise how big these things could get.

[Michael G]

From memory, you'll only be able to fit (as an Armstrong designation) a T0S (T=tungsten, but for a shaper means no back rack) 0 is the size and S= straight.
These will take a 1/4" tip.

Michael

[RayG]

Hi Lama,

Here is an Armstrong Shaper tool holder catalog, courtesy of Phil's USB Stick

Regards
Ray

[Anorak Bob]

Eric, I hope you've seen some of Ray's earlier handiwork. If not, here you go -

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/shaper-tooling-146264/

[Dave J]

There a couple of massive Armstrong branded shaper tool holders on ebay ATM I didn't realise how big these things could get.

You do have to watch out because they can get big.
I remembered this thread when I was down the shed, so I took some photos of some large tool holders I could lay my hands on. They are for my 24 inch Alba.
In this picture one is a Lock and the other is a Nolex (made in Aus) and it has a 45mm tall shank.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199865&stc=1&d=1330521838

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199866&stc=1&d=1330521838

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199867&stc=1&d=1330521839

And here are some boring bars, a bit big for the Douglas, LOL

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199868&stc=1&d=1330522250

These are the Lock spanners, so keep your eye out at markets and garage sales as most people wont know what there for.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199869&stc=1&d=1330522250

I bought these Indian ones about 15 years ago, and to tell you the truth, I don't see any difference in performance, after all they are only holding a small piece of HSS. If I come across more brand name ones for a reasonable price I would grab them, but I wouldn't go paying top dollar for them.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=199870&stc=1&d=1330522250

I see Bob gave a link to Rays tool holders which turned out really nice, Bryan also made some really nice lathe tool holders by welding a side on them, and with a little change could easily be shaper tool holders. Hopefully he jumps in with a picture or a link (though I think they are in the "Your latest project" thread
Found them
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/your-latest-project-121056/index20.html#post1417075

Dave

[Ueee]

Just looking at armstrong on Yankbay

If you want a BIG toolholder.....

USED ARMSTRONG TURNING TOOL HOLDER No. 7-L USA 7L | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-ARMSTRONG-TURNING-TOOL-HOLDER-No-7-L-USA-7L-/230459765615?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a878f36f)

Ewan

[Dave J]

Just looking at armstrong on Yankbay

If you want a BIG toolholder.....

USED ARMSTRONG TURNING TOOL HOLDER No. 7-L USA 7L | eBay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/USED-ARMSTRONG-TURNING-TOOL-HOLDER-No-7-L-USA-7L-/230459765615?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a878f36f)

Ewan


And on special for only $191, LOL

Dave