New Round For Depression Treatment

[chambezio]

This will probably bore most of you so do persevere if you like.
Since before Christmas I had dropped into the deep pit with that bloody black dog. Christmas usually goes that way for me. I just can't "get into it'. so 2 weeks ago with no sign of the black cloud lifting (Incidentally, during January I started to reorganise my shed, and I suspect the unholy mess that followed did not help either) I thought i should talk to the Doc. All the psychiatrists left town about 6 or so years ago which meant the GP had to take over the supervision of the Meds for my depression.
Went in for the appointment and he says"Time for a change". I cringed because changing means minimum of 2 maybe 4 weeks of feeling like crap while my body gets used to dealing with new chemicals.
So started new tablets. Different one for day and another for night. Took the morning one and felt so dizzy I just sat in a chair all day because if I stood up I am sure I would have fallen over. The night time one put me to sleep about 1 hour after I took it. I had the best night's sleep I have had for ages.
So this dizziness went on for 3 days so I cut them both in half and ran with that for 3 days and went back on to the full dose.
I GOT BLOODY ANGRY WITH E-V-E-R-Y B-L-O-O-D-Y T-H-I-N-G !!!
My wife panicked and rang the Doc who said to stop the day time one immediately. One thing I was not physical with the anger.(That is what she was worried about)(I am not an angry person normally and not physical either)
Went to the Doc today and got a referral to Psychiatrist to sort out some more drugs.Yes we now have quite a team of Psycs now to sort out loopy people in the Tamworth area.
I am not looking forward to the "getting on" to another lot of drugs but I do know I have to have something!
To go out to the shed and deal with the whole mess takes a lot of pushing (by me) and then a lot more to stay out there and sort things out.
Its a real bastard!!!!!!!!!
I have to keep reminding myself that there IS MORE TO LIFE. I just have to believe it.
One thing I am grateful for is a family who can cope with me and all this.
Thanks Lyn, Erin and Clair.

[jmk89]

Rod

Having had my own wrestling bout with the black dog, I know how hard it can be to deal with these issues with the meds. I am lucky - after a few false starts, we found a flavour of meds that works for me, I got the issues under control and now I'm down to the lowest dose that's available and I'm just 'ticking over' at that level. The great thing is that we know that if this level doesn't work, we can just increase the dose and it will help me through a difficalt patch. And the only side effect I get is a massive headache if I forget to take the meds, so it reminds me to take them by kicking me in the head like a mule.

I'm sure that you and the psychs will find the right meds for you and it is great that your family is helping out.

All the best

[chambezio]

Thanks for the reply Jeremy
Over 20 plus years of wrestling I think I would be up about 18 changes of meds. It makes you feel like a guinea pig. And I really hate to have to change. I am glad that you have found a combination that works for you.
I really get annoyed with "do gooders" who say "I wouldn't take any of that" they don't have a clue!!!
My wife is a sufferer as well. So that puts a lot of stress on the girls. So far they are doing alright.
Its frustrating too, to have the time (had to retire early from the work place) the shed the tools and machinery not to mention the line up of projects....but not the will to do the things that are on the list
Better days ahead (I have to keep repeating it)

[wheelinround]

Keep the spirit of the dog leashed Rod if possible Man rules over beast

Sorry I am one who won't take meds, saw what it did to me as a kid, saw what its done to others as adults.

Ray

[Milo]

Mate

Well done for having the courage to even admit and talk about the issue!!! :)

Just putting it down on the page is a start to healing and dealing with it all. As it has been said before sometimes you have to get the mix of meds correct and yes its a mine field.

The key for me is staying un-isolated, join a woodworking club? or a support group where you can surround yourself with positive people who are aware of your condition.

I am sending you a virtual BEAR hug and congratulate you for being so brave, you have a virtual family of woodworkers right here.

Milo:2tsup:

[tea lady]

Keep going! And keep ignoring those who say drugs are nonsense.

I find excersise also does wonders. Find a class or something cos I can't get off the couch other wise either! Tai chi is my choice! Martial arts of any sort I reckon cos it gets that aggression and energy expressed in an OK environment and used in a useful way! I like tai chi cos it is a martial art but not overtly fighting ! :cool: And its harder work than most people think! :U

[Geoff Dean]

Rod,

I have never had any experience with depression, other than a family member suffers from it.

From what I have seen, admitting to yourself that there is something wrong is the MOST important thing. After that it becomes easier.

As Mr Mackey from South Parks says "Drugs are good, M'kay"

Good luck with it.

Geoff.

[Foo]

How would you go writting down, what section of your shed you would tidy up each day
or each week, rather than going in cold all the time?:2tsup:

I say this from no, well little experience within my life but living with obsesive compulsive
and Asperges disorder within my family.It seems to make things a little bit easier to
organise things and not, to get dejected and overwhelmed by tasks.:wink: (all the best mate)

Foo

[chambezio]

Mr Foo
Thanks for replying!
Yeh, the wife has been saying something similar. Today i actually did go out there with a plan and sort of did some but I was easily side tracked. Its is interesting looking back at what i have been doing and how i went around it. As you say i only need to chip away at it. There is NO dead line and I am the only one I need to answer to.
The latest news is that the Psychiatrist called me and now I have an appointment for 2pm on Monday. I am a little reserved in my attitude toward the appointment, thinking back that it may take sometime to sort my muddled up head out. BUT I am at least getting some help finally
Thank you all for concern for me its much appreciated. :2tsup:

[Foo]

I would be giving the pych as much grief as possible, solely from the perspective of
finding out what can be done!:(

If you don't throw out all of the variables, then you wwon't get all the answers!:wink:

Like I said, good luck and be open minded and take no crap, when it comes to your health!:no:

Foo

[rsser]

Chambezio, FWIW, maybe in the shed start with something small that interests you. Don't set targets. Just go in and have a play at something.

+1 to Tea Lady's suggestion about exercise, pref. vigorous. Works for some people to burn up some of the energy that's squashed.

Good luck.

[3 toed sloth]

Chambezio, I can't even imagine what your inner turmoil must be like, but reading your story makes me want to offer a bit of fellow forumite support.

It would be great to hear that you,ve found the right treatment and you're back in the shed.

Good luck

[chambezio]

Thanks for the encouraging replies!!!!!!!!!!
I went to see the Psyc on Tuesday. He is a young fellow (early 30s) after all the my history again (third time now in 5 days) he has put me up to 45mg of Avanza (mood stableiser ) and won't give me a day time med until he finds out exactly what I have been on before, so he can properly find something that will work for me. From the partial list that he has, he says I have been on most of the SSRIs as well as the other group of head "drugs".

I told him about the WW II Jeep I have in my shed that needs a complete restoration so he said to spend 2 hours per day, regardless of anything else, work on it as well as 30 minute brisk walk EVERYDAY. He says that regimentation is part of successful treatment and it is up to me to put in the hard yards to make it work.

I also mentioned that I had started to rearrange the shed to accommodate some new machines (new to me anyway) I bought, but have them roughly placed but can't decide whether or where their final placement should be. So I am at a stalemate with that which makes me annoyed because I can't get a solution to my problem. The Psyc says that procrastination is normal in cases like mine.

So the new program for me is....get up have breakfast, get dog and lead and walk down to the bridge below us, on the road, walk back. Its about 3km with a slight down hill all the way but uphill on the way back. Get on computer check in with you guys and who ever else writes to me, then out to the shed. I am still trying to tidy up out there, as there is still a lot to be sorted out. Thankfully I have a mate, who is in a similar situation as me, and is also a mechanic, so the Jeep surgery is not so stressful as I rely on his expertise, so that leaves me the grunt work (cleaning off grease, rust and paint). There is also the mowing which is a twice a week deal due to all the rain we have been having. I am taking advantage of the good season to get the grass to cover the patches which are usually bare especially this side of Christmas.

Because the shed is in disarray I find it very hard to stay out there but if I don't, and come inside, I get annoyed with myself for not getting the shed to a point where I can be comfortable. Can you see a pattern.

The reason I think the Psyc chose the Jeep project is that it something/time just for me. But I am comfortable to interchange the Jeep for other activities. I see him again in 6 weeks so I am going to adhere to his strategy as best I can.

I find too that I have little patience with things which is out of character for me as I am usually placid but at the moment I am snappy with the family if they are within earshot of me. And then I feel disappointed in myself for biting their heads off. This inner turmoil is damned annoying.

I have been complaining to the GP for years that I am always tired but he doesn't seem to want to know. Even getting out of my own way is chore. Is this normal for someone approaching the latter part of there life?

Thanks for spending the time reading my dialog But there maybe some else out there going through something similar to me.

[Sturdee]

I can't help you with your depression but the symptoms of being not able to do the things that you want and getting motivated is the same as mine at the moment.

I found that doing things is essential, in my case I have got back into cleaning up the garden, weeding , pruning etc. What used to take me one day now takes about 2/3 days but it's better then moping around and at the end of the week something is done.

I've also am continuing my workshop reorganisation, takes longer but slowly getting there. So start on yours. Remember that you'll never get it perfect the first time. As time and circumstances change so will your workshop. So don't worry if it's perfect at this stage.

I find that going in the workshop each day and putting 10 items away helps as in no time it will be a lot better.

Good luck and persevere.

Peter.

[wheelinround]

I wonder if Tamworth council water treatment plant is still using Potash to stem some troubes they have from time to time.

Good to hear from you again, yep WWII jeep sounds like a good project as does slowly cleaning up irritates the carp out of me too. Why because years of cleaning up after others I now have to clean up for myself.

[rsser]

Sounds like a plan Rod.

Yes, depression can involve you feeling irritable and low on energy. I jokingly refer to it as anger without the fun.

For you and others I'd recommend you research the drugs you have been prescribed for their likely side-effects and interactions.

An independent Australian source is here: NPS home page: NPS - Better choices, Better health (http://www.nps.org.au/)

Another source, claimed to be independent is Drugs.com | Prescription Drug Information, Interactions & Side Effects (http://www.drugs.com/) This has a neat facility where you can register, list the drugs you're taking and receive relevant FDA warnings as they are issued.

The research on depression treatments shows that counselling can help with mild to moderate conditions; severe conditions benefit from a period of medication.

Counselling can come from a psychiatrist - the upsides here are the Medicare rebate and getting scripts for meds. (And I wouldn't recommend reliance on the average GP for depression treatment). It can also come from a counselling psychologist - look for one who is a member of APS. The entire cost comes out of your pocket unless you have extras health insurance, or unless you are assessed by your GP as qualifying for 5 counselling sessions (possibly x 2) with Medicare rebate. The GP will use a standardised questionnaire for this.

I would also recommend you see your psych. more regularly than proposed.

HTH.

(Note I'm not a mental health professional but can read medical research and am involved in medical education).

[nick_b00]

Rod,

Thanks for sharing the experiences that you are having with us here on the forum. I hope that your new found routine and the change of meds gets you back in the headspace that you're aiming for. What I know is that your family, woodwork and exercise regimen are all important.

Certainly its a massive positive that you are able to face it with a supporting family.


Counselling can come from a psychiatrist - the upsides here are the Medicare rebate and getting scripts for meds. (And I wouldn't recommend reliance on the average GP for depression treatment). It can also come from a counselling psychologist - look for one who is a member of APS.


Counselling can come from the sources above. GP's treat depression every day of the week and I would definitely include any GP worth his or her salt as a source of important support.

Its one way of thinking about the bigger picture I suppose - that no one thing (e.g. medication, the GP, the psychologist, the psychiatrist, family, the shed etc etc etc) is actually the entire solution - they all are together. Its all these added parts of the puzzle that end up revealing the bigger picture of the road to a different headspace.


The entire cost comes out of your pocket unless you have extras health insurance, or unless you are assessed by your GP as qualifying for 5 counselling sessions (possibly x 2) with Medicare rebate.

If you are referred by your GP to either the psychiatrist or the psychologist then Medicare actually picks up most of the bill - lets not forget! :U.

Generally the number of sessions is 6 initially, followed by a possible 4 more if the psychologist and GP agree that there may be a benefit. Sometimes the psychologist doesn't charge a gap on top (i.e. out of pocket is $0), and sometimes its just that its less out of pocket than if the GP simply wrote a referral letter and didn't complete extra paperwork.

I would recommend that you talk to your GP and they will discuss with you the detail.

As Ern has said the National Prescribing Service consumer medicines information site is one to look up.
Consumer Medicine Information (CMI) search: NPS - Better choices, Better health (http://www.nps.org.au/search_by_medicine_name)

All the best Rod, and thanks again for being so open and sharing with us.

Nick

[rsser]

I agree; talk to your GP about referral options and costs, and I'd reinforce the fact that severe depression is not something that GPs are trained to deal with. While they may treat it every day of the week, if you need expert help of course you start with the experts; even then, some psychiatrists and some counsellors will be more helpful than others so if unsatisfied seek a second opinion.

Unless you pass the assessment for counselling a GP referral will not qualify you for a Medicare rebate. If you do, legislation was before parliament recently to reduce the sessions to 5, and if the counsellor assessed you as needing more and informed the GP of that fact, you qualify for another set, if the bill was passed. Depending on the fees charged, you may find yourself still substantially out of pocket so get the numbers before committing.

And yes, I agree with Nick that this is a crisis in and with your life; don't expect a few meds or a bit of exercise to be the silver bullet. It's experienced by many as a crisis of meaning or purpose. Medication buys you a period of relief from the symptoms of an unaddressed crisis but doesn't make the need for change disappear.

[tea lady]

Sounds all good! :2tsup: Working on the jeep with your friend is probably a good idea. I find it really hard to get going if I am by myself. If someone else is there working away I can join in. I guess that is what is good about "men's sheds" too. Other people are there to work next to. Even if you don't talk your head off to them. :shrug: And you don' t HAVE to talk your head off to them. After a while talking about it all becomes a pain cos the same things keep coming up and you feel like a broken record- going no where. Just doing works wonders.

I again suggest tai chi or some other exercise class. Both for the exercise, and the fact that you are doing it with other people around. The energy of the group can really carry you along. I also found that doing a class where someone else was telling you what to do was a real relief. I got motivated to get there. Then THEY can tell me what to do! And then going home I would realize that I hadn't thought about my crap for a whole hour. Heaven.

Onwards and upwards. :kiss:

[chambezio]

Thanks TL
Your words are encouraging.
I am not up joining a group yet (could be a way off) I tend to shrink away from people. One on one i can cope with but a group situation puts me in pannick mode. I often think that I need to have an arm in a sling or even a bandage around my head so people can see I have a problem and be able to leave there. I usually cringe when asked "How are you?", do I put on the cracked record or just "I'm fine", do they really want to know? I sent an Email to one of my sisters telling her all the ins and outs of recent happenings (much the same as what I have put you Forumites through) only to get a return Email comprising 4 or5 paragraphs with one sentence regarding a response to my condition. I am not complaining just pointing out that some people can't comprehend the condition and how paralyzing it can be to simple life activities.
I am so grateful to you that have read my ramblings and for those who have taken the trouble to publicly and privately write to me I am very grateful.
Yesterday my bipolar mate and I went to a mate's place (who lost his wife to cancer over a year ago). He is a railway nut and picks up allsorts of stuff around the region. He has an old passenger carriage that he has set up as a weekender on his block. He had an old railway trike that had steel tired wooden spoked wheels and wooden frame in dire need of restoration,if only for historical reasons. He approached the local men group thinking they could take it on as a group project (which he would pay them for) only to be faced with no interest. So guess what? Yep I now have a trike to bring back from the grave. More tools of theropy.
Thanks again I am off for my walk, even though its later than usual.

[wheelinround]

Rod see your doing ok at least your friends have the confidence in your abilities to do such stuff.

Pity the Model Engineers club couldn't help out with the wheel etc. The story of the carriage is this recent or some years back.???

[chambezio]

Ray
You may have come across Brooksy (Ken) he is the Accountant at Bearfast. I am guessing but I would say he has had the carriage for atleast 20 years. Its a second class passenger carriage which would have seen service on the major mainlines. he has made a couple of rooms but left a lot of the original seating. The carriage is probably prewar.

[wheelinround]

Could be him bought it originally for daughter' study area hideaway?? Think he was member of Auto-Cad user group back in the 90's.

[tea lady]

I would LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOve a railway carriage to live in! And I'm not even a railway nut! :U And the new project sounds fun too! :2tsup:

[artme]

Rod I know what you are going through. I have had depression for so long that I can't remember not having it.Luckily my medication is working well and has been for a number of years - Cymbalta.

As others have said exercise is good, good, good. Fiends who understand ( or are willing to put up with you ) are a boon. I have a mate who also suffers depression and since we have been talking about different aspects of the Black Dog syndrome and doing things together we are both better for it.

An understanding and supportive family is also a boon.

At present I am still in Brasil. A couple of weeks back I was feeling down. My brother in law always walks in the mornings and sometimes in the afternoons. He encouraged me to get out and walk with him, couple of days of that and I was a different person.

There are Psycs. and there are Psycs. You sound like you have a good one. I went to one one who was about as useful as a hernia.

My GP is excellent, as is my cardiologist. Swapping a joke with either works wonders!

A simple activity like mowing the lawn is sometimes seen as aburden but it always feels so good to do i and see the result of your efforts.

Hope this helps, at least a bit! Sounds like you might finally be on the right track. I wish you well.

[pjt]

I am not up joining a group yet (could be a way off) I tend to shrink away from people. One on one i can cope with but a group situation puts me in pannick mode.

Hi Rod,

This part sounds like me, my preference is for one on one, talk talk talk but then tend to clam up when more than three are in earshot, something to do with confidence and being looked at by someone other than who I am talking to, Is that wierd or what:? I don't do well with groups even if I know all people present or even if they are relos, quite happy with my own company but like a visit from someone to show them what I have been doing yak yak yak, but then leave me alone is best especially if I want to get on with whatever I am doing, I can go off into my own little world (as once was an observation made of me) might be the Aspergers, my sister is doing a post grad study thing at the moment on this area, different brain wiring when compared to a neuro typical person which then can lead to a whole bunch of misunderstanding between the two types of peoples, so it seems anyways, not sure this helps much Rod but just sharing my constant headspace issues:;


Pete

[FenceFurniture]

G'day Rod

I too am a long termer, but I'm reactive rather than endogenous (i.e. if things are ok then so am I). I've had various antidepressants over the years, and when the was nothing to be depressed about I was able to go off them. Finally, a couple of years ago I was diagnosed as Bi-Polar 2, and didn't that help to set the record straight! Many things suddenly made much more sense, such as all the poor choices I've made.

All of this peaked to a catastrophic level at the end of 2009, after my Mortgage Broking business fell out of the sky along with the GFC and high interest rates. I had been on Cymbalta for some months. Shortly after, I escaped Sydney to come and live in Katoomba, and I love it here.

A year ago my partner and I decided it was time we had cats again, and so we got three sibling kittens from a shelter (I've posted here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f43/name-ideas-two-rambunctious-kittens-131544/#post1411439) about them previously) and I suddenly started laughing again, and it hasn't stopped. I stopped the Cymbalta a few weeks after their arrival. The trick with the kittens was to a) spot the really active/playful/pschotic ones and then b) let them choose us, which they actually seemed to do. They are the tightest bunch of cats I've ever seen, and are always in the same mood at the same time (even if they can't see each other because of a different room or whatever, they'll still be grooming at the same time). When there are three of them there is always something going on - it's vastly entertaining.

Different things for different people of course, and pets have long been known to be an excellent remedy for people with all sorts of different illnesses, but I have to say three nutcase kittens are just the ticket for depression.

All the best, Brett

PS - when people ask me how I am, and I'm not too good, then I just pretend the question wasn't asked.

[chambezio]

Thanks fellas for the encouraging words.
I will give you an update (hope you won't be too bored)
Went to see the Psyc today (6 Weeks since last). He kept me on Avanza and wouldn't do anymore until I could get my old notes from previous Psycs. That took 2 weeks. In the mean time I was in the horrors. I was short tempered with every body/thing. Couldn't see him for another 4 weeks too busy! What was I supposed to do????
Anyway in desperation I got to see the GP (another week had gone by) who by this time had finally gotten a stategy from the Psyc. Before any new meds had to have ECG to be sure my heart could take it. (Great. Another thing to start to panick about) ECG was OK so he started me on some Allergron first 1 a day for 4 days then 2 for 4 days then 3. Started to feel a lot better. Was able to actually spend time in the shed doing stuff and not being bored or overwhelmed. The only side effect is a dry mouth, but I can live with that and it makes me drink more water which is good for the diabetes.
He told me to walk for half an hour daily and to work on the Jeep at least 2 hours everyday. (It is an activity for just me time) Well the Jeep time has been Landcruiser time or lathe time- just what ever I was doing urgently.
Went to see Psyc today and he was pleased with the progress and I have to see him in 5 weeks time. So I am happy with the world at the moment.
I asked the GP why the meds would work for only a short time then loose their efficiency. His explanation was that I was given a set of genes that predisposes me to depression (sad sackism) and so the drugs were competing with a body that resisted their potency. I was starting to feel that I was a failure because you hear glowing reports about this anti depressant and that one and how people once on them never look back. I was never one of them.
Time will tell. But I know that I am streets ahead of where I was 4 weeks ago. I reckoned the whole world was against me. I am grateful to all those who have posted their own stories here. It seem that "we are not alone" and that depression is vastly wider than one would think.
The railway trike has been therapeutic and a PITA all at the same time, but with the meds I have been able to persevere and its nearly finished. I will put some photos together so you can see what I have been up to. But the poor Jeep has suffered. I took the tub off the chassis and now have to sand blast both of them to get to a point where we can see the condition of the steel. I am using a small suction type gun and boy is it s-l-o-w. One thing though, I have a lot of time on my hands. With my long list of projects, if I get tired of doing one thing I can jump into another. Who can see chaos looming. Yeh its here too. I just have to be careful
Thanks again for your kind words, they are very much appreciated

[artme]

Looks like things are on the up Rod. HHope Your prolems get sorted and you can really start to enjoy your various activties.

[rsser]

Good news Rod.

And Brett thanks for the post. Your puddies were good for a 2nd laugh :)