Recommendations for Small Stick Welder

[Foccacia]

Hi all
I know that this question has been asked before but does anyone have a recommendation for a small stick welder. It will only be welding up to 6mm. I have a small gasless MIG but it spatters. Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.

[drsed]

Hi all
I know that this question has been asked before but does anyone have a recommendation for a small stick welder. It will only be welding up to 6mm. I have a small gasless MIG but it spatters. Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.

This is a bit of a price dependent question Foccacia (in other words it depends on how much bread you have :U). This is what I use and can fully recommend, but you may not want to pay so much (around $1150).

Electrode Welding Machines with VRD Safety - Minarc 150 VRD (http://www.industrysearch.com.au/Products/Electrode-Welding-Machines-with-VRD-Safety-Minarc-150-VRD-4722)

[chambezio]

I bought a welder from Gasweld some years ago. It is good for140amps and is quite happy to lay down a heavy weld with a10 gauge rod, after rod after rod. When looking check out the duty cycle when comparing models. In the past I have used a CIG handyman welder which was great if you wanted to drink tea while you were waiitng for the thermal overload built into the machine to turn back on.
This 140amp Toolmac has done some pretty heavy welds over a long period and never got hot enough to bring in the overload. The salesman actually commented on that fact when he sold it to me. The only thing that was not good about the machine (and most "handy man" welders) is the leads are a little light and way to short. But that can easily be fixed by buying longer and heavier leads.
I would suggest you spend some time doing some home work looking at whats on offer

[BobL]

. . . . The only thing that was not good about the machine (and most "handy man" welders) is the leads are a little light and way to short. But that can easily be fixed by buying longer and heavier leads. . . .

Over the last 30 years I have owned/used a variety of cheap (ie $100 - $200 welders) and the length and quality of the leads, electrode holder and earth clamp have been dogs on all of them. After getting frustrated with these items, about 5 years ago I spent almost as much replacing them, on my latest cheap welder as I did on the welder itself, but nothing could fix the crappy duty cycle - 4 continuous rods and the it was cuppa coffee time.

Recently I obtained a CEA Rainbow 150 welder on a more or less permanent loan I can now see the difference between them is chalk and cheese. The Rainbow is a fantastic little machine but it does cost ~$1000, but maybe you don't quite need to spend that much.

In a thread where I asked about the Rainbow there is a link to a review of 13 welders (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f160/rainbow-150-a-144125/#post1405611) which could help you out.

[distractor]

BOC 130A inverter. $360 at your local BOC gas & gear.
Second best could be a Cigweld 130A toolbox inverter with less duty cycle though.

[RustyArc]

BOC 130A inverter. $360 at your local BOC gas & gear.


+1 for the BOC Smootharc 130 - I've had one for years and have never heard a bad thing about it.

Note that for 6mm section, if not welding both sides you are going to want a bevel or root gap to get full penetration.

[1canetoad]

I have cig weld skill 170 which does all I have needed it to however if I was buying it again I would probably go with the 130 simply for the fact that I has a ten amp plug rather than a 15. Finding a fifteen amp socket is not always practical. I haven't used one but they probably handle a 1/8" rod ok.
Ben

[rod1949]

...for the fact that I has a ten amp plug rather than a 15. Finding a fifteen amp socket is not always practical.
Ben


Ya file the earth pin down to suit the 10amp outlet, works a treat:2tsup:. Thats what I did to my welder and never had an issue... but now I do have a 15amp out let and it still works a treat.

[AxelVK]

Ya file the earth pin down to suit the 10amp outlet, works a treat:2tsup:. Thats what I did to my welder and never had an issue... but now I do have a 15amp out let and it still works a treat.
I can't believe that there still people out there that not only does this but also admit to it in a public forum.:doh:

[Jarh73]

No more filed down pins for me:

http://i638.photobucket.com/albums/uu104/Fuzzy_bear_au/2177ace0.jpg

Cheers

Justin

[RustyArc]

I can't believe that there still people out there that not only does this but also admit to it in a public forum.:doh:

Meh. It's been shown that 15A outlets typically have the same capacity connections as 10A outlets, and that the wiring to any 10A outlet is protected against overheating by the breaker in the switchboard (a fundamental of our wiring scheme). The use of a dedicated 15A outlet seems to be more about avoiding nuisance tripping than safety as such.

That said, anyone who does this must do so realising the risks involved, the most likely being that the 10A outlet might be some dodgy Chinese version used by the sparky to save money, and you might someday be in the situation where you finish a long weld only to see the wall outlet smoking and burst into flame. There's also the risk that poor terminations behind an outlet might overheat, leading to a fire inside the wall cavity.

My conclusion? If you're going to do this, be aware of the risks and have a fire extinguisher at hand. In fact, if you're doing any kind of welding, or if you have any kind of workshop, make sure you have a dry powder or CO2 extinguisher nearby.

[1canetoad]

I don't know about the safety side of it but I know the sparky who tags my tools every 3 months wouldn't tag it with a filed down earth pin.
Ben

[AxelVK]

A 15A outlet is dedicated so you'll know that the wiring won't catch alight, that is what the breaker is for. There will be nothing but your welder on that circuit. That is if its wired properly but there are probably people out there who simply replace a 10A outlet with a 15A on a shared circuit. The same type of brainiacs who file the earth pin.
I can't be bothered arguing about it, its been explained numerous times here before and I still come across people who say "I've filed the earth pin for years and I've never burnt down any houses yet".
Oh yeah, smoking doesn't affect your health either BTW.

[inverter_weld]

Meh. It's been shown that 15A outlets typically have the same capacity connections as 10A outlets, and that the wiring to any 10A outlet is protected against overheating by the breaker in the switchboard (a fundamental of our wiring scheme). The use of a dedicated 15A outlet seems to be more about avoiding nuisance tripping than safety as such.

That said, anyone who does this must do so realising the risks involved, the most likely being that the 10A outlet might be some dodgy Chinese version used by the sparky to save money, and you might someday be in the situation where you finish a long weld only to see the wall outlet smoking and burst into flame. There's also the risk that poor terminations behind an outlet might overheat, leading to a fire inside the wall cavity.

My conclusion? If you're going to do this, be aware of the risks and have a fire extinguisher at hand. In fact, if you're doing any kind of welding, or if you have any kind of workshop, make sure you have a dry powder or CO2 extinguisher nearby.

Hi Rusty,

Spot on, I would also like to add that the issue is more of a concern when plugging into an extension cord. A 10 amp extension cord is typically made with 0.75mm^2 - 1.0mm^2 conductors. A 10A GPO has a 2.5mm^2 conductor going into it. Filing the earth pin down enables use on extension cords never designed to handle the currents drawn by a 15A plugged welder and a fire is almost certain in some circumstances.

Regards
Pete (Tokentools (http://www.tokentools.com.au) Welding (http://www.tokentools.com.au/category28_1.htm))

[rod1949]

Jeez a few of you got off you bikes here eh. I did this in 1987, and you know what else I ran power through a 10amp extension lead for about 30 metres (from the builder pole to the house site). Like I said nothing happened. The welder still welds and I still use the welder. Its such a beautiful unit to use.

[AxelVK]

Just as I predicted....
And I rode a dirtbike with no helmet, crashed a few times and I'm still here.
Doesn't mean that its good practice.

[dubman]

My turn
here we go here we go here go
:)

[Boringgeoff]

A lot of mucking around filing the pin down, much quicker to slice the edge of the pin off with your tin snips.

Geoff.

[BobL]

A lot of mucking around filing the pin down, much quicker to slice the edge of the pin off with your tin snips.

Geoff.

I don't like to mangle plugs so I made myself a 15A socket/ 10A plug adapter. Only for use in emergencies of course!

[Vernonv]

A lot of mucking around filing the pin down, much quicker to slice the edge of the pin off with your tin snips.Don't mess around with that, just cut the whole pin off. That way even if you move to the US you can also plug the welder into their "two vertical pronged" sockets by just straightening the pins on the plug.

Oh, I just had a though ... messing around with electrical stuff without knowing the full story, the legalities, or what the standard says, could be dangerous ... might be better to just cut off all the pins ... it's sure to be safe then.

:U

[Jarh73]

Maybe just use some jumper leads with nails at one end........

Cheers

Justin

[AxelVK]

A lot of mucking around filing the pin down, much quicker to slice the edge of the pin off with your tin snips.

Geoff.
Let's just solve the issue once and for all; replace the breaker with a solid metal bar so there will be none of those inconvenient trips.
I can easily imagine those 'filed-the-earth-pin, never-had-a-problem' type people doing that.:doh:

[Boringgeoff]

As we approach the first anniversary of my joining this Forum I reflect on the huge amount of valuable information, handy hints and time saving tips I have received.
I don't know how I got by for so long without you.
Thanks guys,
Geoff.

[drsed]

We've been through this a thousand times before. Wouldn't it be nice if the sparkies installed 15 amp wiring and sockets as standard, and charged the extra. Then when we buy some appliance that needs 15 amps we wouldn't have to pay another $200 just to run one line to an new outlet.

My golden rule is to abide by electrical laws completely when it comes to the home and the kids and so on (ie., call a sparkie to install a new power point), and to slightly bend laws (I have a 15 amp adapter, and I wire my own plugs and power points and so on) down in my shed (which is well away from the house).

What I do, with ALL power hungry machinery, is to constantly feel the leads to gauge how hot they're becoming. But this isn't for everyone. You can shoot me for my attitude if you want, but it ain't gonna change. I've worked with sparkies doing lots of re-wiring, and they've always been happy with what I do.

[BobL]

We've been through this a thousand times before. Wouldn't it be nice if the sparkies installed 15 amp wiring and sockets as standard, and charged the extra. Then when we buy some appliance that needs 15 amps we wouldn't have to pay another $200 just to run one line to an new outlet.
this makes no sense at all.

15A wiring is generally no different to 10A wiring. The only difference is that 15A sockets use a dedicate line back to a dedicated circuit breaker. If you want 15A sockets for all your fittings then every single 3 pin socket would need it's own breaker so you will have a breaker box that fills a wall and 100's of metres of cables running everywhere.


My golden rule is to abide by electrical laws completely when it comes to the home and the kids and so on (ie., call a sparkie to install a new power point), and to slightly bend laws (I have a 15 amp adapter, and I wire my own plugs and power points and so on) down in my shed (which is well away from the house).
Unfortunately magistrates don't see laws as bent - just broken or unbroken.

[drsed]

this makes no sense at all.

15A wiring is generally no different to 10A wiring. The only difference is that 15A sockets use a dedicate line back to a dedicated circuit breaker. If you want 15A sockets for all your fittings then every single 3 pin socket would need it's own breaker so you will have a breaker box that fills a wall and 100's of metres of cables running everywhere.

Unfortunately magistrates don't see laws as bent - just broken or unbroken.

I was under the impression that the dedicated line was heavier. But it's much the same thing, anyway. The point is not to overload the supply line and overheat it. I've made it clear that I'm not a sparkie, but it would seem to me to be pretty obvious that if heavier wire was used throughout the shed you could install 15 amp power outlets. Bit like three phase.

So far as the magistrate is concerned, I'd plead guilty to installing my own power points and plugs in my shed and so on. I understand that. But I'm still gonna be doing it, Bob, and so will a whole bunch of other members reading this but remaining silent.

I don't want to get into a tired old debate over this. No more from me on this issue. :)

[RustyArc]

I was under the impression that the dedicated line was heavier.

Generally it's not - a standard 10A GPO circuit is commonly run with 2.5mm2 cable protected by a 16A or 20A breaker (there are variations to this which a spaky makes based on the particular installation). A dedicated 15A socket would typically also be run with 2.5mm2, and again could have a 16A or 20A breaker.

One of the key rules of house wiring is that the breaker is there to protect the cable - ie. no matter what load or short circuit is put on an outlet, the breaker's job is to cut the power before the cable to the socket overheats.

It's worth noting that you can quite legally plug in 2 x 2400W blow heaters into a double GPO - that's 20A worth of load, and on a 16A breaker (C curve), it won't trip for maybe 20 minutes or more.

But as mentioned, while the internal wiring might be up to dealing safely with whatever loads you plug in, extension leads and other components may not handle the excessive current so safely.

[rod1949]

Why don't you all go back and answer the bloke's original question intead of all this gobbledeegook you have gone on with:D

[Boringgeoff]

Why don't you all go back and answer the bloke's original question intead of all this gobbledeegook you have gone on with:D
Well Rod, you started it. Foccacias original query was answered in the next six posts, then you opened the door to the zoo and I, along with some other chimps, got out.

Regards,
Geoff.

[AxelVK]

Why don't you all go back and answer the bloke's original question intead of all this gobbledeegook you have gone on with:D
With all due respect, you were the one who advocated illegal elctrical practices. And please don't give me that tired old "I've filed earth pins for 40 years and never burnt down a house yet". There are plenty others who have and it comes across as ignorance of electricity in general.

[Anodyne]

My sparkie took off the 10A gpo and replaced it with a 15A. Said wire thickness was adequate, like expressed in tthe above posts. You can get away with some mods. but the insurance company can refuse to pay out if there is damage caused by an illegal modification, and you would be legally liabe if someone was injured
Thanks to the forumites for some great information

[azzrock]

if you keep in mind not to use the welder full tilt. what would be the problem with using the 15amp welder in a 10 amp plug.


I can't believe that there still people out there that not only does this but also admit to it in a public forum.:doh:

[AxelVK]

if you keep in mind not to use the welder full tilt. what would be the problem with using the 15amp welder in a 10 amp plug.
That may work. But what small stick welder could you use at less than full song and still achieve good penetration at say 6-8 mm?

[Karl Robbers]

That may work. But what small stick welder could you use at less than full song and still achieve good penetration at say 6-8 mm?
It depends on what electrode size you are using.
Penetration has more to do with joint access than outright power. Welding 6-8mm at full penetration requires the use of a single vee prep or similar no matter what amperage you run, (submerged arc welding excluded).
From memory an inverter welder with a 10A plug are usually rated up to around 130A. That will really cook along with a 3.2mm electrode and even a 4mm would run. I have personally run 4mm E4818 electrodes down to 90A using DCEP when doing certain positional work
Running 3.2mm electrodes on 6-8mm will weld the joint quicker and with less passes than 2.5's but the resultant joint will be just as strong no matter which size is used, in fact when welding to code, 2.5mm electrodes are very often used for the root pass due to the superior control and access to the root gap offered by their more compact dimensions.
As a point of interest the specs below are for the Cigweld Transarc 141VRD and 161VRD welders respectively. They both specify the same size wire fuse despite the difference in their capacities. Leaving legalities aside, I would find it highly improbable that the larger unit would damage a 10A power circuit given that the same size fuse is specified.

Recommended Wire Fuse Size 16 Amp Wire Fuse
Recommended Power Point 10 Amp Power Point
Maximum kVA at Rated MMAW Weld Current 2.4
120A @ 18% Duty Cycle 140A @ 35% Duty Cycle

Recommended Wire Fuse Size 16 Amp Wire Fuse
Recommended Power Point 15 Amp Power Point
Maximum kVA at Rated MMAW Weld Current 3.6
120A @ 42% Duty Cycle
160A @ 50% Duty Cycle

[Gerbilsquasher]

Small stick welder question turns into debate about filing down earth pins on 15 amp plugs and making adaptors....... again!!

Of course it is always more convenient just plug your welder in and go for it. However, have you considered getting yourself a engine driven welder or a genset with welder output? You don't have to muck about with 15 amp sockets, you will get better weld current, and you can run your beer fridge off it during power outages, which will become more common as foreign owned utility companies siphon more money from failing electricity infrastructure.

Yes there are laws out there which are meant to make it safer by preventing unqualified persons from wiring power points. Unions such as the ETU have had too much influence on regulation and have even tried to make supply of power points and plug tops from Bunnings etc. illegal to the general public and you could only buy these things by showing your electrician's credentials.

At the same time that electricians have been given all this power (pardon the pun) government regulation and testing of electricians is very slack indeed. Recently I witnessed a house relocated (in two halves) which was given a Certificate of Electrical Safety with only one working batten holder and five out of ten power points not working. This was a house that was originally designed to be transported and had common connection points to join the two halves electrically. Needless to say the new owners soon cracked it when they discovered the problem was bare, live wires floating around in the common wall and ceiling which hadn't been connected back into the junction boxes. They fixed it themselves. They complained about the electrician to the Chief Electrical Inspector who of course did nothing. On the grapevine this is not the first time this 'sparky' has done this.

My usual course is to run the cables, dig the trenches, make the holes in the plaster etc if I want electrical work done. Then the sparky only has to strip a few wires and tighten a few screws. This saves money on labour, you can put heavier cables than specification (I usually do- nothing succeeds like excess!) and the sparky is a lot less likely to stuff it up.

The situation in Australia is over-regulation where it is technically illegal to even back off the screws on a power point to paint around it, and yet government departments are paper tigers that fail to protect consumers from shonks. Common sense reigns in other countries such as the UK and US where you can wire your own house but you have to have it signed off by an electrician.

I can't accept authority which is defective. Just because "six months ago I couldn't spell electrician now I are one" doesn't mean you are a protected species. There are a lot of laws and regulations which are simply designed to keep people in a job that shouldn't be there. What is required is better testing and training for existing electricians- say, an exam before they are re-issued with their licence- to keep them abreast of changes in legislation.

However, just because there is a competence vacuum in the electrical trades and government this does not give you a green light to file down an earth pin or make an adaptor. You may have gotten away with it to now, but one day you will get caught- not by the law, but someone will get hurt. Want a 15 amp socket in your shed? Get sufficient 6mm twin and earth cable and run it yourself, nail the clips (no nails through the cable OK?), dig the trenches, make the holes in the wall - all the jobs an apprentice could do. Cover your backside by getting a good sparky to strip the wires and put the breaker in the meter box. You will save money, and it will be done properly.

Generally a good sparky will let you dig trenches and crawl under houses and will tell you how to do it properly because it save them time and effort while you are saving yourself money.

I don't see why an interested person couldn't go to Tafe in the evening and get some form of electrical accreditation.... but that comes down to protectionism again doesn't it? People WILL attempt these things themselves, so why can't they be trained to do it properly?

[BobL]

Good Post GB!

[azzrock]

great post. Maybe this is because a lot of great electricians don't work in the wiring houses field.
there keeping our factory's, cranes and elevators working.
you know your can do the NREL national restricted electrical license courses at tafe.that allows you to do some electrical work. ive done it but never bothered to get the license.
aaron

[Marc]

Hi all
I know that this question has been asked before but does anyone have a recommendation for a small stick welder. It will only be welding up to 6mm. I have a small gasless MIG but it spatters. Any positive suggestions would be appreciated.

I wonder is Mr foccacia is still around and I am surprised that none of you grumpy old men has criticized the spelling of his name.

As far as recommending a small stick welder, my suggestion is to buy a large stick welder and a transformer not an inverter.

Small soon turns into ineffective and later into useless as you found out with your MIG welder. Transformer welders are cheap because they are last century technology. yet they work like a charm.
Stay well above 150 AMP possibly 200 AMP and stay clear of Chinese $45 machines.

The debate about 15 amp power points is cute yet counterproductive and mostly ill informed.
A welder needs power in relation to the work to be done. If you have he best machine yet the wiring can not deliver full 240/15 amp you are wasting your time and a 15 amp or a 32 amp outlet will not help unless it is wired to the correct size cable.
Generalizations about the size of the cable does not help either. If the run from the main to the outlet is 20 meters and allowing for 5% voltage drop you get away with 2.5 mm if the cable runs for 50 meters you need 4.5mm ... and I would rather plug into a 10 amp outlet wired to 4.5 cable than in a 20 amp outlet with a 2.5 mm cable.

On that topic I had an interesting experience when I bought my MIG welder. It is a very nice 250 amp unit yet the lead had a simple 15 amp plug and 2.5mm wire. Simple maths told me this to be wrong since the unit needs a 32 amp line to operate at full power.
I contacted the manufacturer who told me that the lead was adequate for medium jobs but that if I required to use it at maximum power I had to rewire the machine with 6mm cable and 32 amp plug. when I protested that I had bought a new unit that could only be used at half speed before melting the lead and that I am not an electrician and a few ephitet on that line, I recieved the best electronic welding helmet I ever owned in the mail as a shut up present. :roll:

[AxelVK]

I wonder is Mr foccacia is still around and I am surprised that none of you grumpy old men has criticized the spelling of his name.

As far as recommending a small stick welder, my suggestion is to buy a large stick welder and a transformer not an inverter.

Small soon turns into ineffective and later into useless as you found out with your MIG welder. Transformer welders are cheap because they are last century technology. yet they work like a charm.
Stay well above 150 AMP possibly 200 AMP and stay clear of Chinese $45 machines.

The debate about 15 amp power points is cute yet counterproductive and mostly ill informed.
A welder needs power in relation to the work to be done. If you have he best machine yet the wiring can not deliver full 240/15 amp you are wasting your time and a 15 amp or a 32 amp outlet will not help unless it is wired to the correct size cable.
Generalizations about the size of the cable does not help either. If the run from the main to the outlet is 20 meters and allowing for 5% voltage drop you get away with 2.5 mm if the cable runs for 50 meters you need 4.5mm ... and I would rather plug into a 10 amp outlet wired to 4.5 cable than in a 20 amp outlet with a 2.5 mm cable.

On that topic I had an interesting experience when I bought my MIG welder. It is a very nice 250 amp unit yet the lead had a simple 15 amp plug and 2.5mm wire. Simple maths told me this to be wrong since the unit needs a 32 amp line to operate at full power.
I contacted the manufacturer who told me that the lead was adequate for medium jobs but that if I required to use it at maximum power I had to rewire the machine with 6mm cable and 32 amp plug. when I protested that I had bought a new unit that could only be used at half speed before melting the lead and that I am not an electrician and a few ephitet on that line, I recieved the best electronic welding helmet I ever owned in the mail as a shut up present. :roll:
Your comments about power outlets and wiring makes perfect sense. It is simple electrical logic.
My only comment would be re. "rather plug into a 10 amp outlet wired to 4.5 cable" is that from what I've seen, most 10A circuits almost always wired with 2.5 and not being dedicated...well you're smart enough to know about the current load on that circuit.

Interesting about your MIG. All of my 15A devices has 6 mm leads so I cannot claim a freebie helmet.

[jemijona]

Unfortunately magistrates don't see laws as bent - just broken or unbroken.

Same as the insurance company that you are trying to get to pay out on your burnt down house or shed.

While your local 10 amp wall socket might not feel warm, the 10 amp wall sockets are daisy chained on the way back to the switchboard, the warmest wire will usually be the one between the socket closest to the switchboard and the switchboard, due to other devices plugged in along the chain.

AND, you may not get an immediate problem. Anyone that knows about heat and expansion may be able to relate to the wire, screwed into the socket, will heat up. The screw will stop the wire expanding against it, so the wire will expand sideways. When the wire cools, it cools and retracts in all directions, causing the screw to now be loose. With this loose connection, you'll get arcing and a possible internal wall fire. This loose screw might not be the one at the wall socket. It could instead be, or as well as, the screw at the switchboard.

If you don't believe me about loose screws, ask any sparkie that has worked on houses that are 10, or maybe 20 years old, and ask them if the screws are always tight on GPO's and switchboards.

Please play it safe guys. Electricity doesn't often take prisioners!

Cheers.

[jemijona]

if you keep in mind not to use the welder full tilt. what would be the problem with using the 15amp welder in a 10 amp plug.

Ok for you, when you remember. But when you need full output, are you going to get a different machine, or just turn this one up?

And what about when you lend the machine out and forget to tell the borrower, not to use full power?

I'm thinking this is similar to lending someone your V8 powered car, but still using a straight 6 diff. One day, it will go bang!!

Cheers

[jemijona]

As far as recommending a small stick welder, my suggestion is to buy a large stick welder and a transformer not an inverter.

Small soon turns into ineffective and later into useless as you found out with your MIG welder. Transformer welders are cheap because they are last century technology. yet they work like a charm.
Stay well above 150 AMP possibly 200 AMP and stay clear of Chinese $45 machines.


I guess the tradeoff is the weight. But if it doesn't go out of your shed/shop, then I guess transformer welders are ok.

Are there any brands that stand out as being better, or are they all pretty much the same?

I'm just looking at hobby welding. Maybe, but rarely, up to 10 to 12 mm but in multiple passes. Doubt I could do it in one pass. Typical, as I see it, would be 3 to 6 mm.

Cheers

[RETIRED]

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[dubman]

Unimig,weldmaster and kemppi all have machines that come rated for and fitted with a 10amp plug
The kemppi is 110 amp and the other 2 are around 130 amp
No need to change anything just plug and play
expect to pay around a grand for the kemppi and anything between $300.00 and $400.00 for the other two

[jemijona]

Unimig,weldmaster and kemppi all have machines that come rated for and fitted with a 10amp plug

While I can't specifically comment on that, I have seen pressure washers offered on ebay fitted with 10 amp plugs when they legally should come with 15 amp plugs.

Makes it hard to know what's legal and what's not. :(

Cheers

[AxelVK]

Unimig,weldmaster and kemppi all have machines that come rated for and fitted with a 10amp plug
The kemppi is 110 amp and the other 2 are around 130 amp
No need to change anything just plug and play
expect to pay around a grand for the kemppi and anything between $300.00 and $400.00 for the other two
I had a 130 amp MIG with a 10 amp plug and it was pretty useless. Not necessarily due to low capacity but because of an awful wirefeed. Got rid of it luckily enough and bought a decent unit instead.
It taught me to 'buy bigger and better than I think I will ever need' and it will be just right as my capabilities grow.

[Karl Robbers]

I had a 130 amp MIG with a 10 amp plug and it was pretty useless. Not necessarily due to low capacity but because of an awful wirefeed. Got rid of it luckily enough and bought a decent unit instead.
It taught me to 'buy bigger and better than I think I will ever need' and it will be just right as my capabilities grow.
Apples and oranges here.
Agreed, a 130A mig is a somewhat limited tool, particularly as most are fitted with poor wire feeds and short gun leads, however a stick welder, particularly an inverter, with a genuine 130A is a very good tool, capable of performing in an industrial application let alone a home environvent.
We seem to be hung up on the 10/15A debate somewhat in this thread. If a reputable machine comes with a 10A plug, then it is suited for usage on a circuit rated at that level, likewise for a 15A.
Some people will make the call that they can file plugs, make adapters and the like. That is their call and no one can/will tell them that it is ok officially. Just as someone may choose to plug two double adapters into a double 10A power outlet and load it up to 40A. This situation is compunded when heavy loads are run on long extension leads.

[Jarh73]

Apples and oranges here.
Agreed, a 130A mig is a somewhat limited tool, particularly as most are fitted with poor wire feeds and short gun leads, however a stick welder, particularly an inverter, with a genuine 130A is a very good tool, capable of performing in an industrial application let alone a home environvent.
We seem to be hung up on the 10/15A debate somewhat in this thread. If a reputable machine comes with a 10A plug, then it is suited for usage on a circuit rated at that level, likewise for a 15A.
Some people will make the call that they can file plugs, make adapters and the like. That is their call and no one can/will tell them that it is ok officially. Just as someone may choose to plug two double adapters into a double 10A power outlet and load it up to 40A. This situation is compunded when heavy loads are run on long extension leads.

I wonder how many times each and every day on countless bench tops across the country a toaster and kettle are on at the same time on a standard 10 amp GPO connected to a bunch of other GPO's.

Cheers

Justin

[jemijona]

Apples and oranges here.
Agreed, a 130A mig is a somewhat limited tool, particularly as most are fitted with poor wire feeds and short gun leads, however a stick welder, particularly an inverter, with a genuine 130A is a very good tool, capable of performing in an industrial application let alone a home environvent.

And with a fairly good stick welder, is there even a need for a backyarder to need a MIG as well or instead of a stick welder?


Some people will make the call that they can file plugs, make adapters and the like. That is their call and no one can/will tell them that it is ok officially.

But when they rabbit on to others about doing such they neglect or forget to advise others that not only is it illegal, but it can potentially cause fire and/or death, now or down the track. It could be that they sell the house, and it burns down on the new owners, who never did anything illegal, maybe killing one of them.

Some hazards are obviously risky, like walking on a rope across the Grand Canyon. So you wouldn't need a law to make such illegal, because the danger is obvious. However, with electricity, the dangers are not obvious, as has been proved in this thread. So because of the lack of obvious dangers, there are laws that prohibit anyone from modifying/tampering with wiring etc.


I wonder how many times each and every day on countless bench tops across the country a toaster and kettle are on at the same time on a standard 10 amp GPO connected to a bunch of other GPO's.

Cheers

Justin

Which is why there wouldn't be as many GPO's hanging off the kitchen circuit as there would be on other circuits. Basically, each GPO gets nominated points, depending on its location and likely use, and that determines how many get hooked up to each breaker.

Cheers

[Vernonv]

And with a fairly good stick welder, is there even a need for a backyarder to need a MIG as well or instead of a stick welder?Stick welders don't perform well on thinner sections and sheet (eg car panels). MIG has the advantage in that space.

[Jarh73]

Stick welders don't perform well on thinner sections and sheet (eg car panels). MIG has the advantage in that space.

Agreed.

I think you will find that the MIG is the great all-rounder welder especially when you consider that it does not take long to get the hang of it and produce good quality work.

ARC has its place but for general home use with predominately mild steel I don't think you can beat a MIG.

My old MIG I paid $600 odd back in the early 90's and it lasted me 20 years and paid for itself 100's of times over. Only half a dozen times I wished I had an ARC welder instead.

Cheers

Justin

[Jarh73]

Which is why there wouldn't be as many GPO's hanging off the kitchen circuit as there would be on other circuits. Basically, each GPO gets nominated points, depending on its location and likely use, and that determines how many get hooked up to each breaker.



I donno I'm skeptical. :wink:

Cheers

Justin

[jemijona]

Whenever I've needed to weld something so far, I've either dragged the gas axe out, or gone to the neighbour.

My most recent gas axe task was butt joining 1.6 mm wall thickness 50 mm RHS. While a mig could have done that easily, I'm not sure if a stick welder could have, with my ability anyway.

Of course a mig or stick welder is tied to the shed, but for the projects that I am likely to do in the next few years, that isn't an issue.

Thanks for the replys guys. :)

Cheers

[kiwioutdoors]

If your doing occasional home use stuff i.e 10 cm runs in up to 6mm then a cheap
$200 140amp should be fine as I find i rarely use more than 2 rods before stopping and cleaning and setting up the next run. I have yet to find the occasion or need to run it to the duty cycle limit. I have repaired trailers and made mobile machinery bases etc and have never had an issue. But given that if I tried to weld a I beam then I would have an issue :)

A Gas shielded mig would be nice but for the amount of times i use it the cheap arc is more economical. As the mig cost and the bottle rentals are a killer for mig

Andrew