Machinable Wax Experiments

[RayG]

Hi All,

I had a go at making some machinable wax, and here's a bit of a run down on how it went.

First attempt, I thought I'd try polystryene foam, since I had plenty of package foam laying about.

Didn't work, the polystyrene didn't mix with the wax..

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1929.JPG

Second attempt.. I followed what this guy did.. pages:machwax [Dale Short] (http://daleshort.cc/doku.php?id=pages:machwax)

Melted some wax, and added a bit of layout blue for colour

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1933.JPG

So now , off to the supermarket to try and find some polyethylene (shopping bags) These were $2.50 per roll I think..

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1932.JPG

These passed the polythene test, burns with a blue flame with yellow tip, smells of paraffin, drips when burning.. it has a filler of some kind to make it opaque white, but I can live with that.

Each roll is 400grams, so I put a full roll into 3 liters of wax, I might try and add more on the next mix to see what happens..

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1934.JPG

Now you get out the IR thermometer and try and get the temperature stabilized at around 280-320 degrees F, 450 degrees F is the self ignition temperature for the wax, so you probably want to keep under that.. :)

I noticed that if the wax started smoking it was getting too hot. But you have to be above the melting point of polythene 230F and keep it there for a couple of hours while the polythene mixes into the wax. You need to stir it a fair bit as well..

It starts to thicken and goes "goopy"

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1936.JPG

Finally pour into a mold, this is 300x200x50
http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1941.JPG

A few blocks later..

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1942.JPG

I notice white blobs here and there through the mix, and I'll break these up and remelt them to try and get all of the polythene mixed in a bit better, might add a bit more layout blue to get a darker blue colour.

Machines nicely for the little bit I tried.. :)

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

Hi Ray,
Firstly, why? what makes it better than just wax? Just a stronger mix?
Secondly, do you think the checkout plastic shopping bags polythene?( have a small mountain of them I collect for another reason)

I guess its really something for the CNCers amongst us?

Best part would be I can melt the swarf down and start again when I stuff up:whistling:


Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Stuart,

The check out bags are polythene, and would be perfect I just didn't have a whole heap of them..

I've found some plastic foam packaging that seems like polythene that I'll try later.

The idea is to make the wax harder and machine better.

Regards
Ray

PS... why are you collecting shopping bags, the South Australian black market perhaps? :D

[RayG]

Hi Ray,
I guess its really something for the CNCers amungst us?



Hi Stuart,

As to the why?

I'm making some patterns for an aluminium casting, and currently using blocks of MDF, and the MDF dust is something I'd like to get rid of.. so I'm hoping machinable wax will do the trick

This is what machining MDF looks like..

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1943.JPG

Regards
Ray

[rodm]

Hi Ray,
Here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/machinable-wax-69171/index2.html) is a thread on machinable wax. There is a couple of PDF's worth reading in the thread. I have included them below.
I believe plastic milk bottle lids make a good mix and I got hundreds by asking at work and family. Seems people want to recycle and I ended up with heaps more than I needed but unfortunately they ended up being recycled in a more conventional manner.

[RayG]

Hi Rod,

Thanks for that, I'd forgotten about that thread. :2tsup:

Remelting those blocks seems to have gotten the remaining polythene mixed in as well. :)

Regards
Ray

[marty989]

Hi Ray, where did you source your wax from?

Thanks

[RayG]

Hi Marty,

I got it years ago, for sealing the ends of green timber, so I can't recall the exact supplier, it might have been this one Paraffin 60J Slabs - All Australian Candle Making (http://www.candlemaking.com.au/epages/candlemaking.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/candlemaking/Products/ww60slab/SubProducts/ww60j-0028&ChangeAction=SelectSubProduct)

But since reading that thread that RodM linked to, someone there suggested that it might be a good idea to ask Neil ( the owner of this forum, and the maker of Ubeaut wax) he probably buys the stuff in 10 tonne truckloads... :)

Report back on how you go.

Regards
Ray

PS.. If you choose to use layout blue for the colouring, add it before you start melting the wax, the stuff I've got uses acetone as the solvent, and you don't want to go adding acetone to hot wax, it will bubble up and possibly overfow. :)

[Graziano]

This is interesting reading Ray, thanks for the tip. I need some wax like this as I'm running out of my older stuff.

[Stustoys]

Hi Ray,
Tried anything else yet?
I'm thinking of the first batch being 5kg wax, 600-700g plastic bags.
I have 50g of chrome yellow pigment that I was going to mix up for spotting but as I have some CanodeI might tip some pigment in and see what color I get.(or does that sound like a bad idea?)
Also have you tried "gluing" blocks together to make larger ones? I'm wondering just what size to make the model, I'd be thinking about making some sort of slipform form to make multipour blocks but I think that would be a little over the top if its easy enough to stick two blocks together with a little extra melted wax.

Also does the melting/mixing smell much?

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Stuart,

Experiment and see... :) I thought about using canode, but the bottle of layout blue was closer... the canode blue (or yellow) might not mix with the wax, but try it and see..

I haven't tried "gluing" blocks together, but I don't see why not.

I made a box out of MDF, but I think the teflon coated baking trays are a better bet, if you can get ones that are the right size that is..

The smell is that burning waxy smell, so it's best done outside, as far as I can tell none of the stuff is toxic or gives off toxic fumes, but allow for something to cover the pot if the stuff catches fire.

I think the more polythene you can get in there the better (the harder the end product will be) , but it takes time to mix, at least 2 hours I guess.

Regards
Ray

[azzrock]

dont tell me paraffin wax is useful and expensive
aaron.

[Graziano]

Hi Ray,
Tried anything else yet?
I'm thinking of the first batch being 5kg wax, 600-700g plastic bags.
I have 50g of chrome yellow pigment that I was going to mix up for spotting but as I have some CanodeI might tip some pigment in and see what color I get.(or does that sound like a bad idea?)
Also have you tried "gluing" blocks together to make larger ones? I'm wondering just what size to make the model, I'd be thinking about making some sort of slipform form to make multipour blocks but I think that would be a little over the top if its easy enough to stick two blocks together with a little extra melted wax.

Also does the melting/mixing smell much?

Stuart

Isn't green Chrome oxide a polishing abrasive?, it might be like tipping a fine abrasive into your wax that could dull, or at least polish your cutters as they machine the wax. I have an old jar of sodium fluorescein powder which I think is solvent soluble, would make the plastic a dishwashing detergent fluorescent green.

[Stustoys]

Hi Ray,
Sorry I think I confused you. I meant adding some chrome yellow powder pigment for mixing with oil(?) to make paint.
The only eletric elements I have are inside...... might just have to wait until the boss is at work and the weather is fine so the doors etc can be open.

I might try putting the bags through a paper shreader(though I dont hold out much hope for that idea)


Hi Aaron,
There is a guy in Bentleigh or Port Melb selling parraffin, $100 for 25kgs

Hi Graziano,
I dont think its really chrome oxide(I can only find green and black chrome oxide).
Earth Pigment 50g Chrome Yellow / Bright Mars Yellow | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm//130337060778) This is the stuff


fluorescent green would be great! lol

Stuart

[Stustoys]

Well here is my first effort.
The yellow was working great until I started to add the bags. I was expecting to loose some color but not all of it. Maybe if I'd added enough yellow it would have worked but I'm fine with grey. Maybe next time I'll sort the bags by color lol.
5kg wax
710g bags.
I gave it over two hours at about 320F and there was still the odd little lump. I gave up and poured it through a sieve.
Not sure how to go about testing it?
In a "drop a knife into it" test it seems to only go in about half as far and the lefts over's "snap" more like hard plastic than wax.

The block is 340 x 200 x 70mm with a 13mm drip in one side from shrinkage.

With luck I'll get a minute tonight to drop it on the mill.

Stuart

[Abratool]

Hi Marty,

I got it years ago, for sealing the ends of green timber, so I can't recall the exact supplier, it might have been this one Paraffin 60J Slabs - All Australian Candle Making (http://www.candlemaking.com.au/epages/candlemaking.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/candlemaking/Products/ww60slab/SubProducts/ww60j-0028&ChangeAction=SelectSubProduct)

But since reading that thread that RodM linked to, someone there suggested that it might be a good idea to ask Neil ( the owner of this forum, and the maker of Ubeaut wax) he probably buys the stuff in 10 tonne truckloads... :)

Report back on how you go.

Regards
Ray

PS.. If you choose to use layout blue for the colouring, add it before you start melting the wax, the stuff I've got uses acetone as the solvent, and you don't want to go adding acetone to hot wax, it will bubble up and possibly overfow. :)
Ray
How is this for a coincidence.... I was just visiting "All Australian Candle Making" an hour ago, They are at Arcadia NSW out in the bush, about 15 mins from where I live.
I was getting some more beeswax & soy wax & wicks. Just finished pouring 50 candles. The mix I use is 80% beeswax & 20% soywax.
Not related at all to your experiments,but I make the candles to fit into some wood holders I also make.
Good to have a bit of variety in life.:2tsup:
Now back to scraping metal.
regards
Bruce

[RayG]

Hi Bruce,

How about machined candles? :D Just out of interest is there some standard colouring material for candles?

Looks good stuart, :2tsup: I'll be interested to hear how it machines, I found it took ages to cool down too..

Regards
Ray

[Abratool]

Hi Bruce,

How about machined candles? :D Just out of interest is there some standard colouring material for candles?

Looks good stuart, :2tsup: I'll be interested to hear how it machines, I found it took ages to cool down too..

Regards
Ray
Ray
There are colouring for candles available from the same place. My wife purchased a few colours, to use in larger candles.
regards
Bruce

[Anorak Bob]

Ray
How is this for a coincidence.... I was just visiting "All Australian Candle Making" an hour ago, They are at Arcadia NSW out in the bush, about 15 mins from where I live.
I was getting some more beeswax & soy wax & wicks. Just finished pouring 50 candles. The mix I use is 80% beeswax & 20% soywax.
Not related at all to your experiments,but I make the candles to fit into some wood holders I also make.
Good to have a bit of variety in life.:2tsup:
Now back to scraping metal.
regards
Bruce

You tackling the Churchill already Bruce? Impressive.:U

Ha Ha
BT

[Abratool]

You tackling the Churchill already Bruce? Impressive.:U

Ha Ha
BT
Bob
Have spent some time staring & thinking :rolleyes: about my Surface Grinder & have the feeling that the error in it may be coming from a minute distortion from its base, not being levelled. Until I sort that part out first, not game enough to tackle the job.
I have been tempted by your purchase of the Machine Reconditioning book from the USA. Looks like you are getting serious :o
regards
Bruce
ps Have been scraping the 6th end face of our "students cast iron block" Just want to get it finished.

[Michael G]

If you guys want to colour wax, have you ever thought about using kid's crayons in your mix? They are coloured wax and will dissolve in other wax. (I've used them for wax colouring before)

Michael

[Stustoys]

billet candles! I have some 18" drills for the wick hole;)

Had a quick play.
1720rpm
20mm 2 flute cutter
powerfeed maxed out(never checked it speed)*edit* oops I think the pictures are with the powerfeed at 5(what ever that means) about 1/2 speed. Though I couldnt see much difference to the runs at 10)
1mm DOC (as I figure that it would make a lot of difference to the heat)
climb milling(on the corner picture)

Seem to work just fine to me.

Stuart

[RayG]

I've been busy assembling stuff for a project the last few days, and happened to spot what Josh was up to on the little cnc machine, machinable wax looks the goods.

This is after the roughing pass, and next pass is a ball nosed 3mm cutter that will smooth it out. It could be the pattern for a casting... :)


http://www.backsaw.net/pics/Misc/DSCN2008.JPG

The next re-melt on that block will get rid of those white lumpy bits..

Regards
Ray

[eskimo]

Hi Bruce,

How about machined candles? :D Just out of interest is there some standard colouring material for candles?

Looks good stuart, :2tsup: I'll be interested to hear how it machines, I found it took ages to cool down too..

Regards
Ray

you can get wax dyes. I have some I got from Commission Dyers in Adelaide. They sell lots of dye stuff for all sorts of stuff...spirit based, water based etc etc...dont know if they are in other states but I guess some one would have it

[eskimo]

I have been tempted by your purchase of the Machine Reconditioning book from the USA.

its available as pdf Bob

[Anorak Bob]

Hi Stuart,

As to the why?

I'm making some patterns for an aluminium casting, and currently using blocks of MDF, and the MDF dust is something I'd like to get rid of.. so I'm hoping machinable wax will do the trick

This is what machining MDF looks like..

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN1943.JPG

Regards
Ray

Hello Ray,

Are details of your desktop CNC mill covered in another thread? I'd love a little machine for engraving graduated collars etc. Even more, I'd love to know how to use something CNC. Going around to RodM's is still a bit like visiting Cape Canaveral for a Ludite like me.

BT

[Abratool]

Bob
I think a basic CNC course would be something I would be interested in attending, & guess there would be a lot of others interested.
regards
Bruce

[Big Shed]

Bob
I think a basic CNC course would be something I would be interested in attending, & guess there would be a lot of others interested.
regards
Bruce

As would I.:2tsup:

[Anorak Bob]

its available as pdf Bob

I know. You sent me a copy on a CD. I had it printed then a discussion erupted about copyright.:no:. I posted off the Officeworks copy to Bruce on Tuesday. I feel better having the real thing. It's a bit like Moore's Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy. I had a scanned and photocopied version then I found and purchased a reasonably priced 1970 edition of the book on Amazon. No comparison. The original photos are stunning, the scanned and copied versions sadly lack the definition and impact of the originals. The original book is a work of publishing art.

Still, the copy I sent to Bruce will look good next to his collection of Man Junior magazines.

BT

[RayG]

Put me down for the CNC course as well, Josh is the expert around here... :)

BT, Have a talk to Rod, about this one it's a 4 axis version of the machine I've got, for engraving cylindrical dials, it think it would be ok, but ask Rod's advice..
4 Axis CNC 3020 ROUTER ENGRAVER DRILLING / MILLING MACHINE , With Claw Chuck | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Axis-CNC-3020-ROUTER-ENGRAVER-DRILLING-MILLING-MACHINE-Claw-Chuck-/390390623824?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae5182e50)

Regards
Ray

[Graziano]

Hi Ray, that setup is pretty good, I can see the advantages of making your patterns that way, especially for accurate thin walled patterns like tubes and elbows. There's no way you'd easily hand make complex patterns for items like gears without a lot of machining. Is the machinable wax stable over time?, I vaguely remember seeing photos of the stuff shrinking after a few years.

Bob: Without trying to sidetrack this thread (a bad habit of mine)....."Man Junior?", for a second I thought that was a Saxton Hale reference (fictional CEO of MANN corporation). What's the title of the machine rebuilding book you're referring to?.

[Anorak Bob]

Hi Ray, that setup is pretty good, I can see the advantages of making your patterns that way, especially for accurate thin walled patterns like tubes and elbows. There's no way you'd easily hand make complex patterns for items like gears without a lot of machining. Is the machinable wax stable over time?, I vaguely remember seeing photos of the stuff shrinking after a few years.

Bob: Without trying to sidetrack this thread (a bad habit of mine)....."Man Junior?", for a second I thought that was a Saxton Hale reference (fictional CEO of MANN corporation). What's the title of the machine rebuilding book you're referring to?.

Mark,

Edward Connelly's 1955 book, Machine Tool Reconditioning. Machine Tool Reconditioning for Machine Tools by Machine Tool Publications (http://www.machinetoolpublications.com/)

Bob.

[RayG]

Here's the finished test part..

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN2010.JPG

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN2011.JPG

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/MW/DSCN2012.JPG

You can see a bit broke away on the center, maybe for one-off patterns I can see it being useful, but I think the real advantage is to be had for checking cnc programs,
and then the actual patterns can be machined out of something a bit more durable. Some kind of plastic perhaps?

The big plus with machinable wax, of course, is you keep the swarf and melt it down for another go... :)

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

Nice work Josh/Ray. Does/can the cnc move three axes(spellnig?) at once or does it do all the X and Y on one level then step the Z down?

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Stuart,

Yes it does all three axes at the same time, where it needs to. Interesting to watch, but it does these weird helical lead in tool paths at different places in the program... The finish on the teeth could be better, I think the step-over could be smaller, but, I guess, that's the whole purpose of doing a trial run from machinable wax so the program can be refined.

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

Hi Ray,
Sorry I was typing when you posted your last.
Would you be game to melt the wax out of the mould and then pour? I know its done but I've not seen it done with sand.
Would save a lot of time making the mould if you didnt have to split it to get the pattern out. You also wouldnt have to worry about draw on the pattern etc.
I wonder if the broken piece may have been a little piece of unmelted bag?

Does the cnc keep track of the run time for that part?

Stuart

[RayG]

Hi Stuart,

I must have a go at lost wax casting one day, the procedure would be, make the part out of machinable wax, then use that to make a silicon mould, then make wax parts, could be a different wax if required. Then coat with plaster gunk and build up a thick layer, cure the plaster stuff, melt the wax out and bake the plaster, finally pour the bronze or aluminium, and smash the part out of the mould..

Not sure what the plaster gunk is, or what sort of wax would be suitable, there must be some on-line suppliers, I'm sure it would be easy enough to find.

It's supposed to be good for complex parts with re-entrant shapes and lots of detail.

Regards
Ray

[Anorak Bob]

You will find it all here Ray. KerrLab - Jewelry - Home (http://www.ormco.com/index/KerrLab-Jewelry-Home)

From memory ( 3 decades ago ) the investment plaster crumbles off in water after the casting process.

BT

[Stustoys]

That plaster investment casting I have seen needs(?) a vacum chamber to remove the air from the plaster when it is poured around the pattern.

I'd been hoping you could just melt most the wax out of a sand mound(and maybe burn the rest out?) then pour as normal.

I really must get to work on my furance.

Stuart

[rodm]

I think Stewart is on the right track and the chips are as a result of imperfections in the wax mix. The fellows over in Perth gave up on plastic bags and went the path of Pet 2 milk bottle tops - the plastic bottle type. If you look inside the lid there should be a recycle symbol with the number 4. They mix better in the pot and also provide the the colour without additional dye and blue tops being the best in my opinion. Asking family, friends, work mates or a local kindy group will provide ample supplies. Recycling is good and lots want to do it but there aren't convenient opportunities.

BT I'm not sure if you are a having a semi-seniors moment thinking about a CNC machine. :)
Happy to discuss the pros and cons of a Chinese machine like Ray has - they are good value but there are a few traps if you base your decision on price only.

If anyone is interested in a CNC demo or introduction to CNC I can arrange something for the Perth members. Numbers would have to be limited to six or so at a time as viewing space is limited.

[Anorak Bob]

That plaster investment casting I have seen needs(?) a vacum chamber to remove the air from the plaster when it is poured around the pattern.

I'd been hoping you could just melt most the wax out of a sand mound(and maybe burn the rest out?) then pour as normal.

I really must get to work on my furance.

Stuart

Here is a YouTube vid. Not your typical home shop set up unless you are Ray Gardiner but it does show how it's done. And the casting is bashed out.:doh: There is a profusion of clips on YouTube on the subject of lost wax casting.

How does Investment casting work? by www.ops-uk.com - YouTube

[Stustoys]

I hadn't even thought about the expansion of the wax being an issue :(

Thanks

Stuart

[Graziano]

or what sort of wax would be suitable, there must be some on-line suppliers, I'm sure it would be easy enough to find.

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray, I believe investment casting wax is actually a low melt point polystyrene. I have a large tin of the stuff originally used for blocking up plastic lenses before CNC milling the surfaces. My stuff melts at about 60 degrees C.

Cheers,
Mark

[Ueee]

Hi Ray, I believe investment casting wax is actually a low melt point polystyrene. I have a large tin of the stuff originally used for blocking up plastic lenses before CNC milling the surfaces. My stuff melts at about 60 degrees C.

Cheers,
Mark

HI,
As far as i know you can use nearly any traditional wax.....Lost wax has been done for thousands of years, normally with a clay/straw/dung? (my memory may be hazy on that last one) mix that is fired and the wax is lost in the firing process. Actually they believe that King Arthur pulling the sword from the stone is actually a story based on the casting of bronze swords, and "pulling" the sword from the "stone" (clay)
Making a latex mold of a machined part or hand carving is pretty standard in making sword furniture.

Ewan

[Michael G]

My understanding of the process is that the mould is made around the wax, once dry the wax is melted (low temperature) and poured out, then the mould is fired.
Styrene foam is used for investment casting but is basically burnt out by the hot metal (stinks too).
The vacuum is just to get air bubbles out. If you can live with the odd defect, then a vacuum is not essential. I've seen air bubbles removed from mixes just by holding the container the mix is in on a vibrating surface (like a linisher motor). That's usually enough to shake the bubbles out.

Michael

[jhovel]

Could you script your course a bit and get someone to video it when you do it?
That way us Easterners could take part in the CNC 101 as well.
OTHOH - Harty69 might be convinced to run such a course of us Mexicans perhaps? Peter????
Cheers,
Joe

[harty69]

Could you script your course a bit and get someone to video it when you do it?
That way us Easterners could take part in the CNC 101 as well.
OTHOH - Harty69 might be convinced to run such a course of us Mexicans perhaps? Peter????
Cheers,
Joe

if there is a few people interested and they want to come to the center of the known universe I am sure we can organise something

cheers
Harty

[Graziano]

HI,
As far as i know you can use nearly any traditional wax.....Lost wax has been done for thousands of years, normally with a clay/straw/dung? (my memory may be hazy on that last one) mix that is fired and the wax is lost in the firing process. Actually they believe that King Arthur pulling the sword from the stone is actually a story based on the casting of bronze swords, and "pulling" the sword from the "stone" (clay)
Making a latex mold of a machined part or hand carving is pretty standard in making sword furniture.

Ewan

That's entirely true Ueee, there's a lot of materials that can be used "wax", I've even use melted shellac as a hard wax. It's my understanding that the properties required for commercial investment casting wax is satisfied by a type of styrene.

Sword furniture?, is that like the basket and ornamental bits round the handle?. I've helped with the pour of a pair of ceremonial bronze swords for a Chinese temple round this area. It was an interesting job as supplied pattern really shouldn't have worked, but it did. They ended up being way too heavy to lift easily, I hope they lightened them up a lot. The temple priest said the bronze came from Tibet where it had been prayed over for two years and we were not to let any women touch the bronze.

[RayG]

The temple priest said the bronze came from Tibet where it had been prayed over for two years and we were not to let any women touch the bronze.

Nah, i've got projects that have been prayed over ( and sweated over) longer than that, and I don't let the wife touch the parts either... :D

[Graziano]

Nah, i've got projects that have been prayed over ( and sweated over) longer than that, and I don't let the wife touch the parts either... :D

Bwahahahah :U, I hope the missus doesn't read this forum.

The foundry guy was sure it would have shrinkage problems, but the priest lit three candles and it was all fine.....now round here the difficulty of a job is now rated in "Candles", as in a bad job might be rated as "Definitely a three candle job". The swords got to ride home in the front passenger seat of the Datsun while the wife had the back seat for the two hour journey.

[jhovel]

Now you are talking!
What I guess is that some of us have been doing a lot of reading, watching Youtube videos and caught a glimpse of a machine here or there - but haven't quite got the bigger picture yet. Where do you start - after dreaming about making bits you can't now? what hardware is available and affordable? what software skills are needed? what are the risks and pitfalls? where can I get help if things go wrong? how is the operation of a CNC router different to a CNC mill? What's the point of a CNC lathe?
Can I build a CNC machine myself? Should I start with a small machine? or gamble on my skills and build or buy one that does everything I ever dreamt of doing? what is available secondhand? is it possible and sensible to consider modifying an industrial CNC machining centre? etc....
Covering that sort of quiestions while demonstrating the several CNC machines you and Jayson have there would be brilliant! It may even take a weekend to do!
I would guess if you and Jayson teamed up and split the group and the topics covered, you could accommodate 12 or more people - and I'm sure that many would come.
Perhaps a fee-paying event might be needed to take that much of your time though.
Food for thought.....
Cheers,
Joe

PS: time for a new thread, me thinks..... this isn't about lost wax anymore.... sorry.... Do you want to start it Peter or will I collect the relevant posts together from this thread and copy them across? or ask a moderator to move them?
Ray, this started as your thread - let us know what to do with this new topic.

[Graziano]

Oops :rolleyes:

I was thinking one of those "Rapid Replicators" might be a good beginner's machine. I understand you can even route circuit boards with one.

Anyone have experience with them?.

http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRap

[harty69]

hi Joe
maybe start a new thread to gauge interest so we dont hjack ray's waxing antics :)

cheers
Harty

[RayG]

I think a thread on CNC classes at the center of the universe, would be a great idea...

Over to Harty...

Regards
Ray

PS Nothing sticks to a wax thread.... :)

[Big Shed]

I think a thread on CNC classes at the center of the universe, would be a great idea...

Over to Harty...

Regards
Ray

PS Nothing sticks to a wax thread.... :)

In the CNC forum perhaps?

I know the Metalwork Forum is the centre of the universe for you guys but....................:D

PS Didn't know you were in to waxing Ray:;

[jhovel]

New thread started here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f170/cnc-101-beginners-course-just-idea-so-far-152062/#post1483347
GIve me a few minutes to copy of few relevant posts from here then feel free to post.
Joe

[Ueee]

That's entirely true Ueee, there's a lot of materials that can be used "wax", I've even use melted shellac as a hard wax. It's my understanding that the properties required for commercial investment casting wax is satisfied by a type of styrene.

Sword furniture?, is that like the basket and ornamental bits round the handle?. I've helped with the pour of a pair of ceremonial bronze swords for a Chinese temple round this area. It was an interesting job as supplied pattern really shouldn't have worked, but it did. They ended up being way too heavy to lift easily, I hope they lightened them up a lot. The temple priest said the bronze came from Tibet where it had been prayed over for two years and we were not to let any women touch the bronze.

Hi Mark
Yes sword furniture is the cross guard and pommel etc.
As for the wax i was thinking more along the lines of home casting than commercial. I guess blow molding styrene and casting would be quick and easy for production. The only lost wax i have had any experience with has been using um, brain fade....the wax Ray used with his bags...um.

Nice work on the gear too Ray/Josh:2tsup:

Ewan

[Ueee]

New thread started here: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f170/cnc-101-beginners-course-just-idea-so-far-152062/#post1483347
GIve me a few minutes to copy of few relevant posts from here then feel free to post.
Joe

I'm a bit concerned, should i view this thread or is it about Rays CNC waxing machine....:D

[Graziano]

Hi Mark
Yes sword furniture is the cross guard and pommel etc.
As for the wax i was thinking more along the lines of home casting than commercial. I guess blow molding styrene and casting would be quick and easy for production. The only lost wax i have had any experience with has been using um, brain fade....the wax Ray used with his bags...um.

Nice work on the gear too Ray/Josh:2tsup:

Ewan

Hi Ueee, the styrene wax isn't blow moulded and doesn't really handle like a plastic either....it's just that it melts at convenient temps and goes reasonably hard too. The only hassle I have is using it in summer when it gets too soft. I use it for masking off metals for etching.

[Ueee]

Hi Ueee, the styrene wax isn't blow moulded and doesn't really handle like a plastic either....it's just that it melts at convenient temps and goes reasonably hard too. The only hassle I have is using it in summer when it gets too soft. I use it for masking off metals for etching.

Ok, i would have though that for production runs lots of patterns would be molded and then cast.
I have only used wax or a circuit board resist pen for etching resist. On thinking, i think polystyrene is injection molded not blow molded...hang on where's wiki.....
Yeah, i'm getting my molding mixed up.....blow molding is for hollow plastic parts:doh:
Ewan

[jhovel]

I'm a bit concerned, should i view this thread or is it about Rays CNC waxing machine....:D

Now there is an idea! Ray, I think you should get Josh to start writing the G-code for a Brasilian....
I think your machine should henceforth be called "Ray's CNC waxing machine" :roflmao:

[Ueee]

Now there is an idea! Ray, I think you should get Josh to start writing the G-code for a Brasilian....
I think your machine should henceforth be called "Ray's CNC waxing machine" :roflmao:

And of course it just happens to be called G-code......:q

[RayG]

And of course it just happens to be called G-code......:q


Can you take it as read, that, I replied with a suitably witty response, without me having to actually type anything..... :D The ones I'm thinking of are the most obvious...


Regards
Ray

[Oldneweng]

On the subject of Machinable wax, I have been doing some research on plastics, for other reasons as well. Polythene is also known as Polyethylene (PE) –" Wide range of inexpensive uses including supermarket bags, plastic bottles." Then there is LDPE and HDPE. Both forms of Polyethylene.

I have been wondering about other sources for polythene. We shop in South Australia and don't have many shopping bags any more. I wondered if a supply of plastic from some other bulkier source such as containers, chopped fine would also work. I guess the deciding factor would be the melting point.

Poly tanks are made from polyethylene. I have lots of stuff such as 25 litre containers, 200 litre containers, 3 tonne grape bin liners and various bits of all of these lying around. May be yet another thing for me to do. Test some out.

The other day I found a local souce of HDPE offcuts of various sizes. Make an offer. I got a piece 16mm X 145mm X 600mm for $5.00. This souce gets it sent in batches as they run out and we saw it near the end with not much left. There was some 25mm diam about 300mm long and some bigger diam but only very short. I hope to catch them with a better choice in the future. This was the other reason for plastics research. So I know a bit more about it.

Dean

[Metalman]

Some more information on PE
PE is a member of the Polyolefin group of plastics. The other main member is Polypropylene (PP). Both float in water, are made up of Hydrogen, Oxygen and Carbon and are related to candle wax. To tell the difference use the following rule of thumb: take your thumb nail and try and put a permanent mark in the sample plastic. If you can mark the sample it is PE. Low Density PE, for example most OTTO bins will mark easily, High Density PE will be harder to mark. If you cannot mark the sample it is probably PP. Most plastic kettles are PP as an example.
Hope this helps.
Mm.