American Rock Maple

[rsser]

The seppos on this forum sometimes post envious comments about Aus timbers but it's my turn to repay a compliment.

This stuff is fab. Think of a cross btwn Ash (Fraxinus) and Tassie myrtle in terms of texture. Distinct growth rings and it cuts like cold butter. Click (http://www.carbatecwa.com.au/Timbers/AMERICAN_ROCK_MAPLE.htm)

The outside of a bowl refined with a burrless scraper (top honed at #1000) shows a hint of sheen and needs no sanding.

This blank came from AFT (http://www.afttimbers.com/home.htm)

(No connection other than as a customer).

[Pat]

Ern, were's a pic of the bowl?:?

[Scott]

Ern, were's a pic of the bowl?:?

Ditto!

[rsser]

Um, why do you want a pic?

[Scott]

Um, why do you want a pic?

I've never seen a pic of Rock Maple expertly turned by a person such as yourself. :D

[rsser]

Well, I'm just down the road from you Scott (in Reservoir) so feel free to drop in and look at the finish. PM me if you want to accept the invitation.

It would take skilled photography to capture the finish. That's not my field. Eyes and fingers tell me enough.

[Scott]

Well, I'm just down the road from you Scott (in Reservoir) so feel free to drop in and look at the finish. PM me if you want to accept the invitation.

It would take skilled photography to capture the finish. That's not my field. Eyes and fingers tell me enough.

An invitation I cannot refuse.

[rsser]

Sorted. Look forward to meeting you Scott.

K, some pics.

This is the first bowl I'd let out of the shed without sanding.

Outside is fine. Inside is a bit iffy re toolmarks. I need to kit up with scrapers with a range of radiuses to do better without resorting to the 60g tool. With this job the Munro tear-drop scraper was the main tool inside and a straightish edge scraper outside, but reading Raffan's piece in the latest AWT mag re insides it may be that older is gooder ;-)

I only got onto this no-sand jag cos the wood was so good and NeilS showed me a fine bowl off the tool a while ago and it pricked my interest. Neil's was much bigger though; this is only 19cm diam.

[Skewturn]

Looking good :2tsup:

Really cant tell you didnt sand it great job.

Cheers happy turning:U

[Scott]

Same Ern, see you then.

Lovely piece of timber Ern. To think I hand on a piece of Rock Maple the other day and opted for a piece of spalted Sycamore. I think you're heading in the right direction with this though, can't wait to touch it. Do you intended to apply a finish?

As a matter of interest what angle is the scraper against the work? I've been attempting this sort of thing with a Sorby scraper with varying degrees of success.

[dr4g0nfly]

Having been lucky enough to get my hands on a slab of Rock maple big enough for a couple of fruit bowl on stands (sold as wedding gifts) I can say his description of the woods properties is correct.

However never tried to consider my work done straight off of a scraper - maybe I'll have a play sometime.

[rsser]

Scott, the Munro was run at a shear angle. I played with a shear angle with the conventional scraper on the inside but found it too hard to get a good result up towards the rim. It cut more cleanly but left ripples. I took those out with the scraper flat on the tool rest with the lightest touch possible since the rim is a danger zone normally.

The bowl in the pics had been finished; n/c sanding sealer and wax.

[rsser]

Scott's coming down for a shed session on Wed. afternoon. I'm in Reservoir.

PM me if you want to join us.

We'll have a play with scraper presentations and edge treatments.

[jimbur]

Looks good Ern
cheers,
Jim

[rsser]

Thanks Jim.

Tomorrow (open arvo) we'll do some more rock maple and try combinations of scraper presentation and edge treatment. Scott, bring down your Sorby if you like. I have one too and we can do a controlled 'speriment ;-)

One interesting outcome of this work is that there is minor rippling in the bowl inside (btwn growth rings) and I'd always taken that as an unwanted side effect of sanding. Sanding makes it worse probably. Live and learn.

[FenceFurniture]

.... bring down your Sorby if you like. I have one too .....

Does that mean you're going to cross sorbs?

[rsser]

No, we'll get on edge.

[FenceFurniture]

You've got the stones for that haven't you?

[rsser]

Yep; rock solid.

(The rubber hits the road when you take a tear-drop scraper top like the Munro from a #1000 to a #3000. Quickly learn that with lapping flat must mean *flat*! May be time to get out the LV diamond film).

Declaration: no financial or social connection with the makers/sellers of any of these products.

[hughie]

.


Outside is fine. Inside is a bit iffy re toolmarks. I need to kit up with scrapers with a range of radiuses to do better without resorting to the 60g tool.




Yeah found the same thing with my DIY set up using an old cold saw. [ HSS blade ] Ended up with 1/2 dozen plus round initially and then grind them as per.

I guess the beauty of the coldsaw blade is that I could end up with 20-30 orbs over time and that it was a freebee. As it had split in half and would have been thrown out.

For those who are not familiar with cold saw blades. They are around 300mm in dia 3 mm thick HSS used in the accurate square cutting of steel. Often employed in the food industry for stainless for square cuts for TIG welding

[Scott]

Thanks for a very informative and enjoyable afternoon Ern, the Rock Maple turned a treat. Not hard to figure out what I've been doing tonight, honing some scrapers. Thanks also to John and Peter for the relaxing company.

[rsser]

Pleasure Scott.

What emerged with this lump of Rock Maple was some grain raising on the outside after a few hours (the treatment had been with a straight edge scraper honed to #3k). I redid it and got a reduction but it's still there. Hard to explain. Doesn't challenge the value of honing though as a few passes with #180 abrasive would knock it back.

[rsser]

For those interested in scraper edge treatments, take a look at NeilS's informative post: click (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/brief-history-burr-131073/)

[letzzzgo]

Great afternoon Ern. As always, extremely interesting and informative. Like Scott, I think I will be honing some scrapers.
By the way, I loved the rock maple.

[Scott]

For those interested in scraper edge treatments, take a look at NeilS's informative post: click (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/brief-history-burr-131073/)

Ok, I'm getting a little deeper into this and after a few experiments today I can categorically say my "off the tool" finishes with scrapers have improved markedly. Not having the tools to hone like Ern does, I glued a few sheets of wet and dry to a polished piece of granite I picked up ages ago and honed my Sorby teardrop. Until I have a better option, this is the way I'll go from now on.

One question though Ern, could you explain "the hook" and how to achieve it?

[Scott]

One question though Ern, could you explain "the hook" and how to achieve it?

Answered my own question: Click (http://www.leevalley.com/fr/html/05k3501ie.pdf).

[Skewturn]

Answered my own question: Click (http://www.leevalley.com/fr/html/05k3501ie.pdf).

Checked out the link interesting stuff will have to give it a go
Cheers

[Scott]

Checked out the link interesting stuff will have to give it a go
Cheers

No probs, however I'd check out this thread (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/brief-history-burr-131073/) that Ern has contributed to before heading in this direction.

[Sturdee]

I also had a great time yesterday afternoon at Ern's, although I was a later starter then the others as I had to drop my wife of at the airport.

Of course that had the advantage that it was on the way back from the airport and she didn't mind being dropped of early so I could go and meet the guys. :2tsup:

It's great when we can meet others in a nice and relaxed atmosphere and learn some more as well. Ern was as usual a gracious host and Scott and John are always great company. A great afternoon well spent.:2tsup:


Peter.

[rsser]

Your Corian work was inspiring Peter. Thanks for bringing it along.

Thanks letzzzgo. Let us know how you go.

Thanks for that link Scott. Those instructions weren't available when the V. burnisher washed up in my shed.

As for turning a hook on a scraper, AFAIK it was known to turners in days gone by who used high carbon steel and could get the effect off a HSS drill bit shank used freehand. If you had a carbide rod doing the same shouldn't be hard (but the V. tool makes it p*ss easy). (Burnisher synonym: ticketer).

...

Well this arvo, working on a lump of Silky with a student we used the straight edge honed scraper (#3000) to refine the outside line of a bowl. (It's less demanding on tool control than a bottom to top pass with a bowl gouge). But it raised the grain something chronic (v. diff. from the Rock Maple). We knocked that back with the straight edge side of a Sorby tear-drop scraper with a burr off a #46 dry grinder presented in 'shear' mode. Worked well but the burr was cactus after about three passes.

Live and learn.

...

Re honing tops, without being systematic about it I'm not noticing much diff. between #1000 and #3000.

[NeilS]

Ern – you have achieved quite a high level of finish off the scraper with that rock maple. As mentioned, I have also experimented with getting a finish off the scraper to the point where the piece was ready (by some people’s standards) to go straight to a wax or oil finish.

One of the reasons some of us experiment with trying to eliminate sanding is the time that it takes as a percentage of the overall woodturning process and most of us agree that it is the boring part of woodturning. So, does spending more time scraping to a fine finish eliminate or reduce the time required to sand? Not much, if at all, in my experience. Scraping down to a fine finish is also time-consuming and like everything else it is a skill that has to be developed, however, you might find it more enjoyable. And, as Ern has indicated, it works better on some woods than others.

Another aspect to consider is the aesthetics of leaving tool and other making marks on our work. It’s a whole topic in itself, so to avoid hijacking this thread with that I have started a separate thread titled To sand or not to sand; that is the question, here (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f8/sand-not-sand-question-151810/#post1480689).

[NeilS]

Re honing tops, without being systematic about it I'm not noticing much diff. between #1000 and #3000.

I expect you wouldn't get much benefit by going to the higher grit unless you are matching it with a similar grit finish on the bevel.

Using a burnisher to raise the burr does in effect push the grit size up to a higher number by reducing (consolidating) the abrasion ridges. I suspect that is one of benefits of raising a hook with a smooth burnisher. Raising a burr with a fine diamond card doesn't give the same benefit, but it does both sharpen and raise a burr at the same time which is in its favour.

As with most things, scraper preparation time is a trade-off. Yes, you get a better cut which last longer by investing more time in scraper preparation, but it's a case of diminishing returns and each of us has to decide where the sweet spot is for us. And, if we are going on to sand at what point do we stop one process and start the other. It depends to some extent on what you enjoy doing the most.

[rsser]

No argument Neil.

I think there is value in practising tool control and refining your tool edge so the minimum of sanding is required.

It's easy to cover sins with the 80g gouge and I've done a deal of this and will do more to get the best out of a piece of good wood.

It's not only turning, it's turning for a purpose and whatever that takes.