Neanderkid

[Groggy]

I was chopping up some firewood when my 12 y.o. son asked for a piece of wood "to play with" - "sure, no problem". Off he goes to the shop and pulls out the Disston 7 tpi crosscut, clamps the log in the vice and proceeds to do a rip cut down the 10-12" length of it. At this point I am restraining myself and think "take thyself inside", which I do.

Watching through the kitchen window, I see him cut four roughly square sides then stop, seemingly unsure of what to do next. By now, unable to restrain myself, I rush out and grab the highly polished and scary-sharp #4 bailey. He looks daunted now, the shiny plane is one of dad's prize possessions - and he knows it. I explain how to use it, "go with the force young Doug" I say, and he does. Little wispy trails begin to appear and I watch his confidence build. Firmer strokes, long sweeping strokes that produced nice even shavings; here I go back inside to watch again.

He now has a sweat up and is still experimenting with the plane, adjusting the depth of cut here, trying against the grain there, getting the thinnest possible shavings and feeding them to shop-dog. He bevels all the sides at 45 deg then flattens the block again, stopping to go inside the shop and get a square to test his work. This continues until he's left with a 3/4 inch dowel that is hard to clamp in the vice. What a way to spend an hour, just watching.

I saw his first steps as a baby, but I think most parents could have described that feeling to me and I would have understood what they meant. It's a much more select audience that could describe, or understand, the feeling of watching their child get 'hooked' on a hobby that gives them pleasure too. That look of being totally absorbed while he planed, up to his knees in curlies, will be a moment I won't forget in a hurry, and it's nice to know he appreciates the hand tools - not just the pow-whirrr tailed stuff.

When I put away the plane later on I noticed a few scratches from the vice where he'd obviously got a bit closer than intended. Normally this would not be a good thing, but today I figure it's better than having a photograph. My tool now has an indelible memory of a special moment of my son's life engraved into it, something I will recall each time I use it and look at the marks.

Most of my tools tell a story of some kind, from a dark bloodstain on a chisel, to missing chunks in my workbench. These scratches will now have a special meaning to me, able to be "read" only by me, a photo would not convey the full memory like the scratches will - does this make sense?

We need moments like this, every now and again, to make the world right.

[RETIRED]

It was a lousy joke. :D

[Groggy]

It was a lousy joke. :D
It seems you know where to put it, so no further comment from me is required!

Filing was never my forte anyway...

:p

[Redback]

So your saying it might not be so bad having kids after all...

My wife and I still aren't convinced.

We intend to have one oneday, we assume the parental instincts will kick in...

At the moment, when we have other peoples babies and kids around, they seem like an incredible burden on your time and lifestyle.

At the moment, we can pretty much do what we want, when we want. We can afford to go on holidays (ski-ing NZ last year and already booked for this year).
I can afford to buy 'toys' without having too much worry...

Problem is we are not getting any younger, so its probably going to have to be sooner rather than later. It just doesnt seem right too just have kids because of a feel of having too....

Any of you fathers out their have these kind of doubts... anyone out their regretted having kids either too young or too old, or having them at all?.

Interested to hear peoples responses...

Bit off the woodworking track though...

[Wood Borer]

What a great first step. you have done well.

Having kids is a worthwhile experience but of course not without it's moments.

Keep the enthusiasm going.

[Groggy]

So your saying it might not be so bad having kids after all...

My wife and I still aren't convinced.
With time and maturity I found that I get more enjoyment from the kids than my previous pursuits. In my opinion, parents tend to live their lives vicariously through their kids - and enjoy it every bit as much as what they had before.


Any of you fathers out their have these kind of doubts... anyone out their regretted having kids either too young or too old, or having them at all?.

Interested to hear peoples responses...

Bit off the woodworking track though...
I wish I'd had my kids earlier, and I suspect most fathers and mothers would agree. Parental maturity helps with the child's development though, and your own ability to be tolerant of them trying to experiment with all the ideas we did as kids.

[Daddles]

Hmm. My lad's 12. He goes out into the shed to get his fishing gear or to ask if he can go visit one of his ratbag mates seeing I'm too busy building boats to play with him.

Like his Mouseboat. He helped build it, then lost interest. Had to twist his arm to take it up the river. Didn't want to learn to row - too hard or something. Then he climbed into the thing, got the oars working, and spent four hours in it. Ya can't pick em.

I know when my kids are having me on - I can predict them.

Cheers
Richard

[Wongo]

That’s beautiful mate. Just ignore .

Another thing makes me so proud is my daughter thinks I can fix everything. I love it when she says “Daddy can you fix it for me please”. Yes she is right, I am very good at putting Barbie’s head and body back together.
:)

[bitingmidge]

Another nice story Groggy, nearly made the midges eyes water, which is a bit of a bugger if you don't have eyelids!


Any of you fathers out their have these kind of doubts... anyone out their regretted having kids either too young or too old, or having them at all?.

Redback,
When my second was born, my eldest was exactly two years old and I was standing at the hospital with my old man watching this new red moving thing through the nursery window, with the eldest crawling around doing two year old stuff.

I remarked to my old man that having kids was an adventure so far, that there was something new and exciting to observe and feel every day, and I asked him "When does it stop?"

My old man, just looked me square in the eye (and I've got goose-bumps as I type, because he wasn't prone to any sort of emotion - stiff upper lip and all that...) and said "I don't know, it hasn't stopped yet".

My eldest is now 26, and I have to vouch for those sentiments.

Experiences like Groggy's are precious, and you get them all the time....only you can decide how many ski trips that's worth sacrificing, but the 20 years or so they are on your hands doesn't last that long!!

Cheers,

P (who goes all sooky everytime one of his girls walks in)

[rackrussel]

ihmo the earlier you can have your kids the better. my oldest(girl) is now 12 then three boys down to 2. i have had more fun, excitement, pride, heart warming moments, anger, frustration and head scratching then at any other time in my life.and i can only hope that continues as we grow up together.
that is worth more than any vacation to new zealand, dubbo or anywhere

[bitingmidge]

.... well maybe not Dubbo!

P
:D :D :D

[Wongo]

My wife and I still aren't convinced.

Redback,

I think I truly became a real man the day my daughter was born. Being 6 foot 1 and look tough doesn’t make me a real man, being married doesn’t make me a real man. It is the love, patience, sacrifice, being responsible, having to make decisions, working hard for someone make me a real man.

My daughter taught me so much from day one.

She taught me to sacrificial, patience and loving when I had to stay up all night (every night for 6 months) to nurse her.
She taught me to be patience when she didn’t listen to me.
She taught me to how to make decisions and be responsible when her temperature was up to 40C in the middle of the night. Do I take her to the hospital or do I wait or do I just panic.

My family is what I work so hard for.


Do your parents have kids? If so then talk to them and you will be convinced.

[rackrussel]

yeah ............
dubbo is pretty impressive!

[LineLefty]

aww shucks.

It's bloody hard work in the first 6 months I can tell you that. And yes I do have those mometns when I wonder would we have been better off not having our son at such an early (25) age.

But it's just not that simple. You do miss out on a lot of things and as you get older you probably miss the m less but in this early stage, I've given up most of my social life (my mate asked my if we needed 1 or 2 weeks notice before inviting us over fora barbie) I've given up volleyball, my guitar is gathering dust and shed tiem is down to about 2hrs every coupel of weekends. Sex life suffers too! We're flat broke as well, even though I earn OK money.

I work, come home at 6:30 rush aroudn trying to get dinner organised, dishesd ath and feed littlelefty and get him to bed. Sit down at 830 for an hour watching a TV show I dont want to watch and then go to bed. Get up and do it again.

But having said all that, you see people with awful cases of 'deferred happiness' syndrome looking at you wondering when everything will be right for them to have kids. It never will.

So dont let these guys impress thier values on you. IT's boody hard work and if you've got any doubts, then I say dont do it.

[Redback]

But it's just not that simple. You do miss out on a lot of things and as you get older you probably miss the m less but in this early stage, I've given up most of my social life (my mate asked my if we needed 1 or 2 weeks notice before inviting us over fora barbie) I've given up volleyball, my guitar is gathering dust and shed tiem is down to about 2hrs every coupel of weekends. Sex life suffers too! We're flat broke as well, even though I earn OK money.

thats pretty much the impression we get from friends who have young kids. We almost never see them, when it is its for a couple of hours tops. They struggling to keep their heads above water and basically have no life outside of home.

Had a work colleague come around one night after work to help me dig some trenches for soakwells. Had to wait for the wife to return with an extra bit of pipe from bunnings and I said to him, "mate you don't need to hang around, I'm sure you've got better things to do at home". He made some comment like "Yeah, bath and feed the kids and put them to bed". Needless to say he hung around to complete the trenching exercise...

I'm sure at the end of the day you look back through rose coloured glasses. It's just not easy at this stage when life is so cosy to make the kind of sacrifices that you mention.

At the moment ski-trips (believe me, the view from the top of Cardona and the thrill of ski-ing is something amazing!) and complete and utter freedom are too appealling. Maybe in another year or two.

Thanks for all your input people.

[bitingmidge]

At the moment ski-trips (believe me, the view from the top of Cardona and the thrill of ski-ing is something amazing!) and complete and utter freedom are too appealling. Maybe in another year or two..

Yep, it's bloody hard, expensive, frustrating work.

My youngest turned 18 three years ago, and we left home. We have at least fifteen years of skiing left in us (we think), and you don't understand what utter freedom is till you've "got out of jail"!!

Having said that, we hitched through Europe when we only had two (aged two and four) travelled most of Oz in the 18 years after the third was born, sailed to more places than most can imagine, saw the US and NZ, all the while remaining stoney broke.... but they were adventures we wouldn't have had in that form if we were "alone".

But as for Lefty's advice about not letting us impress our values on you.... pppfffftttt!!! If you didn't want our values expressed, you wouldn't have asked!!

At the end of the day, it's your life and your decision to make, not ours!

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[Redback]

Exactly, Im interested in hearing diverse opinions.

I want also want to hear the positives, because I can see the negatives, they are obvious.

Its the stories that started this thread that have a meaning.

Unfortunately, I will never know how my father felt about me as he passed away a few years ago.
I value everyones opinion and I apologise for hijacking this thread :)

[Daddles]

Kids. Early or late.
I had my kids late. In my mid thirties. My eldest is now 12 and I was divorced just after he turned two. He came to live with me and has done so ever since. I did the single dad bit for three years, then I met my second witch ... er ... wife. She brought with her an eighteen month old son who I then raised as my own - I work from home so I was Mister Mum. Four years ago, my daughter was born and the Mr Mum bit continued of course. But about ten months ago, my ex decided to go back to an old boyfriend and my step son, who regarded me as his father (while still seeing his natural father), was forbidden to see me. For the last ten months, I've had my son living with me and my daughter half the time living with me - back to doing the single dad bit (it's a good life actually).

Kids. They restrict your life as far as being a free young person goes, but that's only a state of mind. The birth of my son didn't stop me doing things, it just changed the things I did. The same with raising my step-son. And ditto with my daughter. There are things we don't do or do differently because of the kids (like my choice of boats, swapping the motorbike for an MG), but they haven't stopped me living a full life. Interestingly, they used to stop the ex from doing things, but that was because of the choices she made and not what she did, but how she chose to do them. Now that she's got her boyfriend, when she's supposed to have the kids, she leaves them with grandparents and friends so she can go do things. My kids are always with me and if it's not appropriate for a three year old to be doing something, I modify what that was so she can be involved. We haven't missed out on much.

So I've had basically full responsibility for caring for a child under five, for the last fifteen years. During that time, I've been an active competition aeromodeller, active in competition dog obedience and agility, an instructor in dog obedience and agility, I've built boats and I'm slowly learning how to sail the things. We go fishing, go to sporting events (my son is a keen soccer player - training twice a week has started already, matches start in term two, and he plays cricket as well), motor racing, etc.

Having my kids late meant that I was able to do a lot while younger, yet I think back and with what I know now, probably not much more than I would have had I had the kids. Having my kids late means that I'm not young, fit and agile and my son misses out because of that. I get tired easily, get grumpy, etc. However, I'm also a lot more patient, a lot more wise and he still leads a full life. Having them late means that I won't be free of the kids until I'm sixty five probably, while those who had them early are, at my age, touring alone.

Look, you win and you lose. Have the kids when you are ready. If they are restricting your life, you have the wrong attitude. They restricted my ex's life to the point where she resented them, and now that I'm not there to stop it, she dumps them. I've had kids underfoot much longer and don't feel that I've missed out on much. About the only restriction on my life has been with my writing - I'm a writer and it's bloody hard to write with an under five underfoot. However, I've still managed a lot and feel that I'm probably a better writer for having the kids.

It's your call. You'll know when you're ready, but just make sure you're having kids because you want kids - that's the only reason.

Cheers
Richard

[ozwinner]

Being 6 foot 1 and look tough doesn’t make me a real man, .
Wongo Wongo Wongo, Ive met you and the toughness didnt come through old son, sorry. :D :D :D

Al :rolleyes:

[RETIRED]

That’s beautiful mate. Just ignore .
Another thing makes me so proud is my daughter thinks I can fix everything. I love it when she says “Daddy can you fix it for me please”. Yes she is right, I am very good at putting Barbie’s head and body back together.
:)
You lot must be learning. No comments except for Wongo.

It was posted in Jokes, so I moved it because I thought it made a lousy joke and deserved better. :D

[outback]

I was a s old as Lefty when we had our first (25), the best comment I received whilst SWMBO was pregnant came from a close family acquaintance, not friend just acquaintance,

"heh heh, now you'll know your really alive"

he was right, 12 years later, I can see what all the fuss is about.

I wouldn't want to have had children any later, but any younger, maybe I would be a divorce statistic.

Like everyone else, I wouldn't change a damn thing.

[Sturdee]

You lot must be learning.


Not necessarily . :D :D :D Having spent 3 days on a jury, with 3 more to go, I am too tired to bite. 3 Days without workshop time I'm going crazy. :eek:


Peter.

[bsrlee]

Kids:

O.P.'s are good to practice with - if you make a mistake & they start crying you can give them back.

Advice from a friend with has 2 x 2 lots of kids. Stop at one, at least until #1 is at kindy. 2 kids, whether twins or just a year or 2 apart will drive you more than usually crazy as they will 'tag team' you - One goes flat out while the other sleeps & builds up energy, then they swap. He got out-maneuvered by the missus both times - he's now converted to blank firing (snip!). Still loves kids, just wanted better timing.

[Rusty]

My partner and I had not been together long when we found out she was pregnant, and we were on shaky ground even then. We've stuck it out, though, through nine (actually ten, she just corrected, reading over my shoulder) years and three children but we've been through some mind blowing changes in that time. It happens when you've been delaying the onset of maturity, and then you have to grow up all at once.

Two of my oldest mates and their wives are now expecting their first children. It's been difficult to relate to them all these years; I've found that other fathers simply understand and accept that they as individuals are less important than their families. They laugh grimly when I compare us to soldiers who have no expectations of survival- It's the mission that's important. My friends who have hitherto been childless really seem to have been hung up on concerns that I have had to regard as petty, to be frank. Parenthood drastically changes your values and perspectives. (Understatement of the year)?!

As for age, I know I still had quite a bit to get out of my system, but as old Hank Rollins said: "Regret? **** that guy". But after having given horsie rides to all three of my children at once I'm grateful that I didn't do it on older knees. I'm nearly thirty-four.

My eldest son was given a hammer and nails when he turned four. He regards tools as merely functional things. I made my younger son a toolbox and filled it with assorted hand tools for his fifth birthday. He's a natural and has the bug. He won't listen to anything I say in the house, will not lift a finger to pick up after himself and can throw violent tantrums when upset, but he's attentive, patient and diligent with his tools. My daughter, three, seems to be inclined towards tools as well. They play out side with lengths of 4x2 pine, hardwood offcuts and junk that they won't let me throw away. Add also to the mix sand, water, ****, snot, leaves, old clothes, carpet.....they have an evolving cubby that is a source of harmony and inspiration, as well as bickering and outright conflict. Such is life.

Lately it's felt extremely good to be handed an old grey piece of scrap and be asked to turn it into something. And to be able to do it.

Ah, theres no right answers, or ages, rules to be followed or formulas to apply. Children will arrive when they think we're ready, not when we think we are.

(Phew, second big emotional dump in recent times, must be getting soft. Inhaling too much sawdust, or not enough)?;)

Goodnight, Ladies and Gentlemen.

Rus.

[Shaty40]

I am nearly 46, my eldest is nearly 4 my second is nearly2, l couldn't be happier.Yes l could,it could have been 10 years earlier. But life doesn't work like that!!

I spent year doing what l wanted to do, travelling europe, skiing all over the place and enjoyed every minute. but nothing gives me the joy of my 2 girls.

Tim:D :D :D

[soundman]

That enough of the soppy stuff.
The real question (groggy) is when are you buying him some tools of his own.
Then a serious parental question, "how old should a boy be before he is allowed to use power tools"

[reeves]

great story, ;love it mate and good vibes to u all.

My sone is nearly 14 and today turned a canlde holder by hiself, i just let him go, he has a good eye for turning and have made some drumsticks and a few other things.

I love watching his skils and interest grow and he actually pretty good..

so proud..!

cheeeeeers

[E. maculata]

"how old should a boy be before he is allowed to use power tools"

I'll jump right in here with 3 words, Old cordless tools ;) :D

[ozwinner]

I'll jump right in here with 3 words, Old cordless tools ;) :D
You rang??

Al :D

[Groggy]

That enough of the soppy stuff.
The real question (groggy) is when are you buying him some tools of his own.
Then a serious parental question, "how old should a boy be before he is allowed to use power tools"
That was written a while ago. He has a pretty decent tool kit now, no "kids" tools - all users. While he lives at home he uses most of mine.

Now, "how old should a boy be before he is allowed to use power tools?" Well, it depends on the tool, it depends on the task and it depends on whether the task is supervised and it depends mostly on the boy himself.

I know men who should not be allowed near tools of any description and boys that can safely and productively use heavy machinery. The age is not as important as the attitude and aptitude.

[jackiew]

I didn't mean to have my son when I did but I don't regret having him.

I would say that the later you leave it the more risk there is that it will never happen - biology can be a terrible thing.

The only thing that stops you doing stuff that you really really want to when you are a parent is lack of cash, otherwise everything is possible. Most ski resorts have ski-schools. you leave junior ( and they can be very junior - if they can walk they can ski - go to any European ski resort ) and go off ski-ing for a few hours. After a week he skis better than you do :eek: Having a kid hasn't stoped me doing stuff - I've had flying lessons, had heaps of motorcycling weekends away ( mine was the sidecar outfit with the stroller bungeed to the back ).

Since he was born I've worked overseas ( he was 5 - german kindergarten after english school was a shock but he survived) and emigrated with to a country where I knew virtually no-one ( at least they speak English here - well sort of). Both times I got offered the job despite being quite open about the fact that I was a single parent.

Being a parent also means that you do things you would never have done otherwise.