A question for the Shaper Owners

[Anorak Bob]

Given the abundance of shaper owners on this forum raises the question as to what you boys use your shapers for. I imagine there may be a few forum members wondering why there is so much interest in these machines and their acquisition.

Photos of completed work might illustrate their usefulness.

BT

[Dave J]

Hi Bob,
Mine does not get a lot of use, but is worth it's weight in gold for the odd job. I think Bryan would be king of the shaper projects, as I think he uses his a lot not having a milling machine.

The main thing mine gets used for is cleaning up rusty plate I have picked up to save milling cutters and getting the rust all over the mill. I have done a few splines and key ways over the years for ride on mowers. I have also used mine as a surface grinder (using a bench grinder) last year, I told Stuart about it and he prompted me to post, but the results where nothing to right home about so I never bothered posting.
I really think it was the wheel choice for cast iron even though I tried a few, but it cleaned up my lathe compound and vise jaws.
The only reason I did it was a tec screw in the roof decided to leak right on my compound, and since I had not been in the shed for a couple of months at that time, the rust ate into it. Still it cleaned it up good enough.

Once I get the DRO fitted to the Douglas shaper (that getting some mods done) I am sure it will get a lot more work, it's makes it hard working with no graduated dials and the strange down feed set up that you modified. The larger shaper has them but after finding wear I decided to just convert it over to a slotter and wait for another large one that I am waiting for.

As for pictures I don't have any, it was only when I started posting on this forum a few years back that I started taking pictures, as before that I was lucky to take a picture of a machine in the shed.

This latest shaper I bought will be mounted on the large Alba shaper to make a vertical slotter for key ways and splines which will make it much easier to see and do. Doing them on the shaper is like working on a horizontal mill, a pain in the neck.

Dave

[RayG]

Hi BT,

Josh has been using it to flatten blocks of machinable wax, man, you should see the size of the chips... :)

Regards
Ray

[Stustoys]

I'm not sure if this counts but I'm currently using my shaper as a scrapping bench as my work benchs are far to high.
It has four things going for it that I can think of.
1. great vice
2. adjustable height
3. doesn't move
4. I stand in the same place, do four cycles with a different face against the fix jaw, swivel the vice 45 degrees and go around 4 more times.

Other than that is gets used more because I like to than I need to. Things like cutting square tube length ways or cutting mitres on tube




Josh has been using it to flatten blocks of machinable wax, man, you should see the size of the chips... :)


Ok I'm stealing that one. It should make catching the swarf much easier than on the mill.

Stuart

[Dave J]

Pull it down and mod it as per Bobs mod.

Dave

[welder]

I bought my shaper when I was 14 because I read how useful they were. I never have really used it the tool feed is way to course.

[pipeclay]

What ranges of feed do you have.
You should be able to advance 1 tooth/notch at a time upto several at a time.
You are reffering to the table feed arent you and not the down feed of the cutting tool.

[Anorak Bob]

Andre,

You have an Atlas from memory. How come the tool feed (downfeed) is too coarse? I thought it would depend on how aggressively or how delicately you turned the feed screw.

BT

ps. Peter's question covers the table feed.

[welder]

The downfeed screw on the atlas is a 1/2 x 13 unc I would like to replace this with a unf. The table feed seems coarse but that may just be me.

[Gerbilsquasher]

Mine is currently being used to attract dust....:(

....but it's not for sale!

[Anorak Bob]

The downfeed screw on the atlas is a 1/2 x 13 unc I would like to replace this with a unf. The table feed seems coarse but that may just be me.

13 TPI makes no sense neither did Douglas' 12 TPI. The 20 TPI 1/2" UNF does. Will it require a lot of fooling about Andre?

If you decide to make a new graduated collar and if you don't have a way of scribing the 50 graduations, I'll do it for you.

BT

[welder]

It does not require much work all I need to do is machine a new screw and a new nut. Thanks for the offer I don't have a way to scribe the divisions. After I finish the down feed mod I am going to build a vise to suit the shaper.:U:U:U

[bwal74]

Hi AB,

I use my shaper to flatten out already flat surfaces. It's much more interesting than watching tennis as well.

Cheers Ben.

[Bryan]

Well I dunno about the king :B but I use my shaper for pretty much everything I can't do on a lathe or a drill press.
The people who don't use their shapers own mills.

[calala]

I am at the moment lost without the use of my shaper, I retired 2 years ago and had to let my rented shed go, thus my shaper is sitting idle at my home. One of my hobbies is Blacksmithing and I used my shaper to make tooling, dies,etc. Its a funny thing but I never think of taking photos of things I make it looks like I should, but I seem to get side tracked by the item just produced. However, I love my shaper and the things you can do with them, simplicity itself. If you can think of something a shaper can do it. :roll:

[Gerbilsquasher]

Hi AB,

I use my shaper to flatten out already flat surfaces. It's much more interesting than watching tennis as well.

Cheers Ben.

Maybe not some of the European girls...

[Gerbilsquasher]

I am at the moment lost without the use of my shaper, I retired 2 years ago and had to let my rented shed go, thus my shaper is sitting idle at my home. One of my hobbies is Blacksmithing and I used my shaper to make tooling, dies,etc. Its a funny thing but I never think of taking photos of things I make it looks like I should, but I seem to get side tracked by the item just produced. However, I love my shaper and the things you can do with them, simplicity itself. If you can think of something a shaper can do it. :roll:

I know how you feel... creating the item is the name of the game, and then what I feel is 'self promotion' comes a distant second.

At the end of the day, by providing a photo, you are sharing knowledge, innovation and most importantly, INSPIRATION, as well as your own blood, sweat and tears.

Too often 'old school' knowledge is dismissed as 'fear of the unknown'. We live in a 'CNC culture' where people think they can make stuff with the press of button, without rolling up their sleeves and getting their hands dirty.

So please post as many photos as you can- I want to learn.

[rodm]

I am a bit of a contradiction spending the last seven or so years building CNC gantry routers, CNC lathes and CNC mills. I have tried my hand at blacksmithing in the 70's and went to night school to learn the finer points. I have primarily been a woodworker doing cabinetry and wooodturning. Due to raising a family I made my machines where possible and as I had more spare cash I began buying fancy blue coloured Taiwan and China replicas of real machinery.

In my transition to CNC I brought a metal lathe and a mill as I had fond memories of doing lathe work in Metalwork at High School. Once I had learnt how to use them I questioned their value in the workshop as you don't use a lathe and mill much in woodwork. Wasting time on the internet at night I came across CNC machines and having an understanding of programing I found a new niche for my idle hands. The experience I had in machine building, the capability of metal shaping and computer knowledge amalgamated into my CNC adventure.

This of course has nothing to do with Shapers yet.

Being a bit of an old tart for ancient iron I go weak at the knees when I look at a Herbert or any of the work dogs of previous years. I brought a hand shaper many years ago and thought that was as close as I was going to get to real machinery.
In Perth there are not many opportunities for old iron and a Douglas came up a couple of months ago on Gumtree and the planets were aligned. I had the machine in my shed and running very soon after. I have yet to really acquaint myself with the Lassies quirks but look forward to an adventure with her that will reshape all the iron I can feed her.

This forum will hopefully provide the knowledge and inspiration needed to do that with precision.

[Anorak Bob]

I've got some nice Herbert and Ward photos that might tide you over until our real machine viewing rendezvous tomorrow Rod.:U

[rodm]

Stop tempting me. :)
I have taken SWMBO to work, replied to the post and have to get out to the shed - I just love working with MDF (not) but I need to get it done.

[Gerbilsquasher]

When you have worked for a while with CNC you start to see the 'assumption' that the computer is going to do everything for you... press that green button, switch brain off.

While CNC can do some exceptional things it is someone with a 'pre-CNC brain' that gets the most out of it.....

I propose, something along the lines of the 'scraping classes', maybe a group setting where old school machinists could teach the youngsters (those who care enough to learn) some of their knowledge, and vice versa?

A lot of this knowledge is being lost, and I as one of the (40 year old) 'youngsters' would like it to be recorded for prosperity.

[rodm]

Gerbinsquasher
I agree with what you are saying and in fact if you don't have the fundamentals of machining you are not going to operate a CNC machine well.

CNC does things you can't do on a manual machine and I view both as complimenting each other.

[Bryan]

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else who owns a shaper but no mill, or am I an orphan? (It's not a religious thing - I'd have a mill too if I could afford it.)

[Anorak Bob]

I know how you feel... creating the item is the name of the game, and then what I feel is 'self promotion' comes a distant second.

At the end of the day, by providing a photo, you are sharing knowledge, innovation and most importantly, INSPIRATION, as well as your own blood, sweat and tears.

Too often 'old school' knowledge is dismissed as 'fear of the unknown'. We live in a 'CNC culture' where people think they can make stuff with the press of button, without rolling up their sleeves and getting their hands dirty.

So please post as many photos as you can- I want to learn.

Gerb, a few photos.

When I bought my first Hercus, I was given a photocopy of an old Hercus brochure for their 9 inch lathe. There was an illustration of the vertical milling attachment. I liked it. Then a while later I happened to see the attachment in a bloke's workshop. He suggested contacting F W Hercus to find out if any of the parts for the attachment were still available. They were except for the slotted slide. I measured the slide and had two goes at making it. The first attempt ended in tears when I didn't realise the clapper box wasn't sitting fully closed and when I commenced my finishing cut , the tool removed a chunk of cast iron. I learnt a lesson that day. The dovetails were cut on the shaper, the tee slots finished on the lathe. I bought a boring table from Hercus to do that job. I've used the table 3 times in ten years.

I needed a vice for the milling attachment. Except for the final milling of the slots on the lathe, the body and jaw were cut on the shaper.

The tool and cutter vice body was an Ebay purchase from Hercus. The jaw was again cut on the shaper.

The Tough drill I bought for 50 bucks was in a poor state. The base was cleaned up on the Douglas. Sadly my Waldown bases are too big.

The slotting head, whilst not really a shaper project, benefited from the shaper's ability to remove metal rapidly. It needed to, I was getting bored by the time I made the second body. I won't go into why the second came about.:doh:
Most of this stuff was made before I was aware of a forum and before I had a useful digital camera.

BT

[Anorak Bob]

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else who owns a shaper but no mill, or am I an orphan? (It's not a religious thing - I'd have a mill too if I could afford it.)

I had only a shaper and one lathe for a few years Bryan and I had more room in my shed. The good old days.:U

[Gerbilsquasher]

Gerb, a few photos.

When I bought my first Hercus, I was given a photocopy of an old Hercus brochure for their 9 inch lathe. There was an illustration of the vertical milling attachment. I liked it. Then a while later I happened to see the attachment in a bloke's workshop. He suggested contacting F W Hercus to find out if any of the parts for the attachment were still available. They were except for the slotted slide. I measured the slide and had two goes at making it. The first attempt ended in tears when I didn't realise the clapper box wasn't sitting fully closed and when I commenced my finishing cut , the tool removed a chunk of cast iron. I learnt a lesson that day. The dovetails were cut on the shaper, the tee slots finished on the lathe. I bought a boring table from Hercus to do that job. I've used the table 3 times in ten years.

I needed a vice for the milling attachment. Except for the final milling of the slots on the lathe, the body and jaw were cut on the shaper.

The tool and cutter vice body was an Ebay purchase from Hercus. The jaw was again cut on the shaper.

The Tough drill I bought for 50 bucks was in a poor state. The base was cleaned up on the Douglas. Sadly my Waldown bases are too big.

The slotting head, whilst not really a shaper project, benefited from the shaper's ability to remove metal rapidly. It needed to, I was getting bored by the time I made the second body. I won't go into why the second came about.:doh:
Most of this stuff was made before I was aware of a forum and before I had a useful digital camera.

BT

May I say..... WOW!

I sometimes get a little disconcerted with day to day dealings with the 'masses', and it's nice to be reminded that there IS intelligent life on this planet.:D

The standard of finish, the complexity of the projects and even the cleanliness of your equipment are all places I am trying to reach in my own workshop. No doubt I will make more mistakes too, but they are there to teach you something valuable.

[Dave J]

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else who owns a shaper but no mill, or am I an orphan? (It's not a religious thing - I'd have a mill too if I could afford it.)

They guy selling that latest Douglas near me has just bought a mill so he is getting rid of his shaper.

On here I think your the only one.

Dave

[RayG]

May I say..... WOW!
<snip>
The standard of finish, the complexity of the projects and even the cleanliness of your equipment are all places I am trying to reach in my own workshop.
<snip>


Welcome to the club Gerbilsquasher, BT's work is an inspiration for many (myself included) to try and do better. I notice it's effect on Joe H's work is becoming more pronounced... :)

On the subject of mill versus shaper, I think it's good to have both... the shaper is more fun to use however... that powerfull, quiet, and relentless simple bit of magic :2tsup:

Regards
Ray

[bwal74]

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else who owns a shaper but no mill, or am I an orphan? (It's not a religious thing - I'd have a mill too if I could afford it.)

I don't have a milling machine. If I had the room and money I'd get one. I am hoping that the shaper and lathe will do for now.

On an interesting side note, I'm seriously thinking about using my shaper to do much of the work on my MLA cross slide casting, especially after seeing AB outstanding work. I just need to learn how to use the shaper accurately.

Ben.

[Ueee]

Hi BT,
I am unfortunate in that i have not been a member here long enough to see much of your work. Wow! now i feel i need to go back through all your posts just to see your work.

Ewan

[Dave J]

It would be a worthwhile search Ewan, Bob does do some nice work.

Dave

[Steamwhisperer]

I'm just wondering if there's anyone else who owns a shaper but no mill, or am I an orphan? (It's not a religious thing - I'd have a mill too if I could afford it.)

Same as you Bryan. No mill just a shaper and lathe and loving it.

Phil

[Dave J]

It seems your not alone Bryan. One good thing is it's a lot cheaper on tooling. When you buy a mill thats only half of it as the tooling soon adds up.

Dave

[Bryan]

Nice to know there are others. Ben you will find there's not much you can't do with a lathe and a shaper. You just need a little patience and imagination. But I guess you need those for any kind of machining.

[Anorak Bob]

I'm not wanting to upset the apple cart but my most used machine prior to the arrival of the 13 was my little Hercus mill. The lathes were used to make the round bits for my milling projects. The shaper was used to rough things to shape more often than not. The mill was used with a slitting saw for cutting off before I bought a bandsaw.

The mill is small so the projects needed to be suitably small but then all my machines are small.

If I was starting out and had the opportunity to purchase either a mill or a shaper of similar capacity and quality, I would opt for the mill.

BT

[Abratool]

I'm not wanting to upset the apple cart but my most used machine prior to the arrival of the 13 was my little Hercus mill. The lathes were used to make the round bits for my milling projects. The shaper was used to rough things to shape more often than not. The mill was used with a slitting saw for cutting off before I bought a bandsaw.

The mill is small so the projects needed to be suitably small but then all my machines are small.

If I was starting out and had the opportunity to purchase either a mill or a shaper of similar capacity and quality, I would opt for the mill.

BT
Bob
Same here
Bruce

[Anorak Bob]

Bob
Same here
Bruce

A few months before I bought the 13 I was at Ron Mack Machinery in Osborne Park. I used to drop in there every couple of months to check out the second hand machines. On that occasion there happened to be a pristine Elliott 14" shaper stowed amongst a ragtag collection of beaters. The machine was close to flawless. Ron Mack said I could have it for a large. I said I had a shaper and would dwell on it. I guess if I had bought it, trying to justify the need for a second mill to my wife may have been problematic.


The reality is that there's every chance that I might find another shaper, something larger than the Douglas and little chance that I would find another Schaublin, let alone one in the condition mine is in.


I would like a larger shaper along with a larger shed. As you well know, it does not end.


BT

[Stustoys]

If I was starting out and had the opportunity to purchase either a mill or a shaper of similar capacity and quality, I would opt for the mill.

The prices are normally so different that I'm not sure we are compearing apples with apples, cart or not:D. Most the guys on here have picked up shapers* for less money than I've spent on tooling for the mill. All up I'd say the mill has cost me ten times the shaper............. but I cant make up my mind which one I would choose. Not because I use the shaper more, but for some reason I get more enjoyment from using it.

*a mates father calls them "lazy mans file"

Stuart

[Anorak Bob]

The prices are normally so different that I'm not sure we are compearing apples with apples, cart or not:D. Most the guys on here have picked up shapers* for less money than I've spent on tooling for the mill. All up I'd say the mill has cost me ten times the shaper............. but I cant make up my mind which one I would choose. Not because I use the shaper more, but for some reason I get more enjoyment from using it.

*a mates father calls them "lazy mans file"

Stuart


You are correct Stu, I'd glossed over the considerable price difference. Buy both.

[Anorak Bob]

Ray's saw. This is hand work, not hand wheel turning.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/KenyonDT04.jpg

[Dave J]

The prices are normally so different that I'm not sure we are compearing apples with apples, cart or not:D. Most the guys on here have picked up shapers* for less money than I've spent on tooling for the mill. All up I'd say the mill has cost me ten times the shaper............. but I cant make up my mind which one I would choose. Not because I use the shaper more, but for some reason I get more enjoyment from using it.

*a mates father calls them "lazy mans file"

Stuart

Your not wrong there, a cheap face mill with inserts will set you back $150, thats half the price of a cheap shaper.
The measuring gear and most accessories used on a shaper can be used on a mill when you do decide to change over. Milling is just so much quicker, though more expensive.

If I had to pick one on a tight budget, I would pick the shaper. Saying that all of my milling gear has been built up over the years bit by bit because I just cant afford to go out and buy it all (or even half) at once. Everybody complains about the Chinese tooling, but without the cheap Chinese tooling I would still not have much and without it around the prices of quality gear would be driven higher than what it is now.

Dave

[bwal74]

Hello,

I thought I do something different AB (other than turn flat material flatter).

Its not much, but I'm still learning about the shaper. All done by Mark I eyeball. Had lots of fun this afternoon. On the second picture is the first part of a spring centre I'm making for the fun of it.

Cheers Ben.

ps Sorry about the picture quality, all photo's taken from my phone.

[4-6-4]

Greetings chaps I might as well stick my ore in on this one. As a bachelor and unattached childless body I can afford a mill and a shaper The shaper is a Gordon Institute of Geelong machine and it sits there forlornly waiting for some action. It is a three speed three phase beastie. Probably 12 inch stroke but could be more. The previous owner used it to cut Key ways. Now the other day I got my Arno Mill to go. The Arno has every thing you could want on a Mill. It almost talked to me the other day when I was making some Tee nuts on it. The material used was 4140 and doubt if a high speed tool would have done the job. The material started a round bar. Fair dinkcum it was almost as good as sex. I have also access to a large shaper that has 93 stroke a minute on is gear box no name in this beastie. This one is also idle.
Yours 4-6-4

[pipeclay]

Ben that vice you are using appears to be a milling vice,to keep most of the swarf away from the thread cut a piece of milk bottle up to cover the opening,put a tongue on the front to fit under the sliding jaw.