motor shaft dilemma

[morrisman]

ok

Looks like I will be buying a new motor for the Hendey , the preliminary report on the old motor from the motor people isnt good :C

Problem is:

The original motor shaft is 1.125" diameter , so the bored hole in the Hendey pulley is the same size.

A new 3 hp motor has a 28mm shaft .... this is .58mm smaller in diameter than I need .

So whats the best option ?

Bore out the pulley and fit a sleeve, then bore it to 28mm

MIKE

[Anorak Bob]

Sleeve.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/pulley-modification-130493/

BT

[PDW]

ok

Looks like I will be buying a new motor for the Hendey , the preliminary report on the old motor from the motor people isnt good :C

Problem is:

The original motor shaft is 1.125" diameter , so the bored hole in the Hendey pulley is the same size.

A new 3 hp motor has a 28mm shaft .... this is .58mm smaller in diameter than I need .

So whats the best option ?

Bore out the pulley and fit a sleeve, then bore it to 28mm

MIKE

Get a new taperlock pulley with 28mm bushing and forget about it would be my first choice. If you're good enough you could bore out the pulley for the taperlock bushing, assuming there was enough meat. Don't know that I'd want to try that myself though. If it's a steel pulley then you can bore it out and weld in a taperlock hub. I've done this a lot but always done the welding first then the turning concentric afterwards.

Get a bigger motor with a 30mm shaft & bore out the pulley to suit.

Depends on what you have more of - time or money. As I said I'd just buy the pulley & move on.

PDW

[morrisman]

OK thanks

There is a 1/4" keyway in the pulley . I dont have any broaching tools so I will have to think about what to do.

The shaft length on the new motor is 60mm long , this is about 25mm shorter than the pulley bored hole , which is about 85-90mm long .

Mike

PDW thanks but the pulley is very wide to take 3 B section V belts

[RayG]

Hi Mike,

What's the story on the original motor?

Regards
Ray

[pipeclay]

If you intend to do the mod you would need to consider the keyway in the motor,doubt it would be 1/4".

If the pully is Cast it may be better to bore size to size for a bush or maybe .0005"

interference,press it together and scotch dowel 2 or 3 places,same if its steel unless you have a press and then,maybe give it .001" to.0015" interference and scotch dowel.

One of the Shaper players should be able to cut the key for you,if not you may have to do it on the lathe,very slow process.

If the original pulley has a boss on it you may need to remove that so that all your belt loading is on the motor shaft,even if you dont you will still have 2 grooves over the motor shaft.If you do remove a boss you would then need to relocate the motor for correct alignment.

You may even find you cant get the same foot print and have to move the motor anyway.

As an after thought if the pully ig going to be bushed you could use a piece of Brass or Bronze,easier to cut the keyway,or you could use Aluminium I dont think corrosion would be a big problem.

[morrisman]

Yes I see what your saying pipeclay

I do have a small shop press , ok a aluminium bush would be easier for me to make , it will be 60mm long

It is made from cast iron

A couple of pics

Ray , they recommend a new motor . I havent spoken to the technician yet , but I will ask for a detailed report. I want my monies worth .

MIKE

[Dave J]

Are you buying a single phase or 3 phase motor ? I only ask because I am pretty sure the motor I got off Bryan/Eskimo is around 30mm shaft, (but would have to double check) If so you might be able to get one like that since your going to have to buy it.

Dave

[morrisman]

Are you buying a single phase or 3 phase motor ? I only ask because I am pretty sure the motor I got off Bryan/Eskimo is around 30mm shaft, (but would have to double check) If so you might be able to get one like that since your going to have to buy it.

Dave

3 phase. Yes a 30mm shaft would be ideal :2tsup:

I've looked at Crompton Greaves brand , they jump from 28 to 38 mm shafts .

maybe CMG will have a 30 mm one . These things always turn up when you are not looking for one :~ When you need one, its impossible to find .

this would be oK maybe , but its a long way from here !!!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/3-hp-220-volt-3-phase-AC-motor-/230783301789?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item35bbc1b89d

[pipeclay]

If you end up taking the boss off drill down through the flat at the bottom of the Vee for your grub screw.

[Ueee]

Hi Mike,
Was the original motor only 3hp? I seem to remember it was 5. You really won't need 3 belts for 3hp so a twin a section taper lock would be the easiest way out. Should only be $20 or $30. No messing about and a guarantee the pulley will run true. I'm sure you just want to get the lathe going at this stage without too much messing about.

Ewan

[pipeclay]

What about the B section driven pully or did you want him to change that or just run A's in B's or B's in A's.

[morrisman]

Hi Mike,
Was the original motor only 3hp? I seem to remember it was 5. You really won't need 3 belts for 3hp so a twin a section taper lock would be the easiest way out. Should only be $20 or $30. No messing about and a guarantee the pulley will run true. I'm sure you just want to get the lathe going at this stage without too much messing about.

Ewan

Hi Ewan

yes definately 3hp .. says so on the old motor ID plate

Whats this twin A section taper lock ?? what does it look like .. I' m a newbie at this

The upper pulley would need B section belts ... its on a clutch arrangement ..not easy to change it to another belt size

MIKE

[pipeclay]

Do a search for taper lock pullies and taper locks,that will show you what the pullies look like and the tapered hub they use to retain them.

[morrisman]

What about the B section driven pully or did you want him to change that or just run A's in B's or B's in A's.

thats what I am wondering . If I use a A section pulley on the motor , can I retain the B section driven pulley ?

[Machtool]

thats what I am wondering . If I use a A section pulley on the motor , can I retain the B section driven pulley ?
Thats not going to work Bro. The A section belt will just bottom out in the B section driven pulley.

Phil.

[Dave J]

HI mike, sorry to lead you astray, I checked the motor and it's only 28mm. Not sure why I thought it was 30, maybe because mine in 25mm I thought it was bigger.

With my motor and postage, when Bryan sent me the motor to Newcastle it cost me around $60 and was delivered by Star track form memory, but once it arrived I realised it was only 18kg so it could have come by Aus post (20kg limit) and would have only cost $40-$45, so a little saving. I was not real worried as Bryan gave me the motor so that was the only cost, but it might give you an idea of postage price.

Dave

[morrisman]

Thats not going to work Bro. The A section belt will just bottom out in the B section driven pulley.

Phil.

Yes thats what I was thinking . So I have to stay with B section ....

As I don't have broaching tooling , whats wrong with loctite ? One the pulley is on, I'm not likely to take it off again for XXX years . MIKE

[Ueee]

thats what I am wondering . If I use a A section pulley on the motor , can I retain the B section driven pulley ?

It depends. I said A's cause that's all I have seen twin belt taper locks in. An a belt should go unto a b pulley, as long as the b pulley is machined deep enough. However the pcd changes so you have to allow for that in pulley size. I can have a look when I get home to see what the pcd difference is between a and b in the same pulley. Otherwise you could go a mi lock with 2 pulleys on the one hub. These can be a or b.

Ewan

[Dave J]

thats what I am wondering . If I use a A section pulley on the motor , can I retain the B section driven pulley ?

No, as said above it will not work.

Back to the original plan of sleeving it I think. Unless you can but a 28mm B section pulley.

Dave

[Bryan]

it was only 18kg so it could have come by Aus post (20kg limit) and would have only cost $40-$45, so a little saving.
Dave

Get out. Sorry about that Dave. I would have weighed it on my old 50lb spring scale which is all I have in that range. :-

Back to your regular programming.

[Anorak Bob]

Yes thats what I was thinking . So I have to stay with B section ....

As I don't have broaching tooling , whats wrong with loctite ? One the pulley is on, I'm not likely to take it off again for XXX years . MIKE

I would have thought that you would be able to have someone broach the keyway for you. Over here there was a bloke who would broach a standard* size keyway for ten dollars a pop.

Sounded appealing when I was making the spindle for my dividing head. Then I found out the spindle diameter and corresponding gear, bush and indexing ring were certainly not standard for the keyway required. I bought my own broach and turned and milled a guide bush to suit.

I guess you could glue the thing on but consider the 250 degrees C required to remove it if you put it in the wrong place.:o

*standard - common motor shaft sizes.

BT

[Dave J]

Get out. Sorry about that Dave. I would have weighed it on my old 50lb spring scale which is all I have in that range. :-

Back to your regular programming.


Not a problem Bryan and please don't take that toward you at all as it was not meant to be, it was just a idea of postage prices for motor.
It was a great score in my eyes and very generous of you to give up a motor.:2tsup: So no complaints here.

Dave

[Machtool]

Are any of these an option. Scroll down to page 13.

http://www.naismith.com.au/catalogues/polyv/vpulley.pdf (http://www.naismith.com.au/catalogues/polyv/vpulley.pdf)

Looking at the ruler up there at post #7, I’d call that about 5 ½” or close to 139mm. I’d be guessing that’s a pitch circle of 132mm That would be the SPB132 x 2 or SPB 132 x 3 on page 13.

Couple of options there in 2 and 3 groove, and both of them take a 2012 taperlocks. They come in all sizes between 5/8 – 14mm to 1 7/8 – 50mm.

Fenner do the exact same thing, their part numbers would be 0906 2900 & 0906 3006.

Phil.

[morrisman]

Excellent Phil

I will ask the local retailers EG BJ Bearings to see if they are distributors

MIKE

[Machtool]

BJ Bearings should be able to get anything from Naismith. Lots of bearing companies go to them. They (BJ) have a division somewhat close to me in Campbellfield. They are fairly good operators.

Not sure if you can go direct to Naismith, they don’t tend to retail. I have an account with them, if you get desperate.

Phil.

[pipeclay]

If you are thinking of going to the trouble of loctite why dont you just put a key in the shaft that dosent stick above the shaft and just use a grub screw,you could even put 2 seperate grub screws or you maybe able to put 2 in the same hole if theres enough meet.
Would be just like the setup used on the broken shaper throw out housing.

[morrisman]

If you are thinking of going to the trouble of loctite why dont you just put a key in the shaft that dosent stick above the shaft and just use a grub screw,you could even put 2 seperate grub screws or you maybe able to put 2 in the same hole if theres enough meet.
Would be just like the setup used on the broken shaper throw out housing.

Yes I could do that :2tsup: I just grabbed the pulley , and it fits in my Burnerd reverse 4 jaw on the Sherarton OK .... so machining it is no problem . Its rather weighty so spindle speeds would be low .

I go into the local BJ Bearings fairly often , so I will ask them re those pullies . Depends on how much they are and the distance between the V centres . I went in there the other day and bought $1.50 worth of lock nuts , a dozen . I fitted them on the old peerless power hacksaw , the adjustment nuts on the main sliding ways are always working loose on that thing , drives me crazy.

I have asked that guy selling the motor on EBAY , what shaft size it has . If I can buy that motor cheap enough , then its worth TNT moving it down here . door to door

Mike

[bollie7]

the Fenner online catalogue is not working this morning but this one is

http://www.taperlockpulleycoupling.com/industrial-pulleys.html

indian company but it will give you an idea of what is available

bollie7

[PDW]

No, as said above it will not work.

Back to the original plan of sleeving it I think. Unless you can but a 28mm B section pulley.

Dave

You can get taperlock B section pulleys. We used them all the time. Not sure what a 2 groove B section is worth but the bushings run about $15 each for the sizes I use, up to 40mm shafts.

Taperlocks are the fastest & simplest way to go. If you ever need to swap anything in the future for a new motor shaft size, it's the cheap bushing to suit. I use type 1610 and 1615 weld-in hubs all the time for making up drive flanges etc, all my boat steering gear is fabricated this way. It will *not* slip under any sane load. I've spun a 40mm shaft in the Monarch lathe chuck when I had a dig-in machining the face of a big flange running out of true, and that was with no key fitted, just the taperlock onto the shaft.

As I said in the first place, it all depends on what you have more of, time or money.

PDW

[morrisman]

This may be my answer ..........MIKE


Royce Cross Australia - B Section Pulleys - Taper Lock Cast Iron - 3 Belt - Pulleys, Cast Pulleys (Taper lock) (http://roycecross.com.au/product_list/pages/product.php?Operation=SetSessionVariable&Variable%5BProductCodeID%5D=PowerTL3B)

[.RC.]

B section belt with 3hp you would get away with one belt... A, B section belt will transmit nearly 5hp over a 5" pulley @ 1400rpm.

I personally would just bush it, loctite the bush in and you have the grub screw to help hold it as well... It is only 3hp...

[azzrock]

hi i have a 1.125" shaft 3hp single phase motor with a twin vee belt pulley all ready on it.
is that any help?

[morrisman]

hi i have a 1.125" shaft 3hp single phase motor with a twin vee belt pulley all ready on it.
is that any help?

Ok, ta for that .

I am working on a few options . Thanks ... standby .

[Greg Q]

If the old motor really is junk, salvage the business end of the shaft to make your bushing...cut it off and bore it to fit your new motor. Locktite it on, and you'll have your keyway and be able to use your old sheaves.

[morrisman]

If the old motor really is junk, salvage the business end of the shaft to make your bushing...cut it off and bore it to fit your new motor. Locktite it on, and you'll have your keyway and be able to use tour old sheaves.

I like that method .

It is definately a sneaky way of getting things up and running :)

[morrisman]

I managed to buy the new 3hp motor for 40 bucks :2tsup:

Now some matching of shaft and maybe a new taper pulley , or a sleeve for the old pulley

MIKE

[azzrock]

wow thats great. how?

[morrisman]

wow thats great. how?

Just the luck of the draw . EBAY is like that ...sometimes very cheap, and sometimes very expensive .

MiKE

[Ueee]

Hi Mike,
Good job, i can't wait to see that old girl making chips

Ewan

[Dave J]

Good to see it went to a forum member,:2tsup:

Dave

[morrisman]

The new motor is on its way down

Have had problems organising a courier . TNT and IPEC won't deal with private individuals , you have to be a business before they will speak to you .

For one off jobs , you do it through a broker . Lots of stuffing around , no wonder things are bad in manufacturing, You cannot get a simple thing moved across the country without a lot of red tape and so on.

Mike

[Dave J]

Was it over 20 for Aus post, or did the seller not want to post it?
It's a pain not being able to use there services without a business account.

Dave

[morrisman]

Was it over 20 for Aus post, or did the seller not want to post it?
It's a pain not being able to use there services without a business account.

Dave

Hi Dave

It's close to 30kg . I've run into this problem before. It helps if you know somebody who has an account with them and can get it moved under their account . If you don't have a ABN number your stuffed . You see TNT vans on the road everywhere .Is there a secret handshake to it :? or a exclusive password ?

MIKE

[Michael G]

I use these guys
Courier Australia, Interstate Couriers, Freight Service Australia, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Courier Delivery, Australian Courier Company, Perth, Adelaide, Hobart, Darwin, Canberra - Parcel Courier Service - Door to Door Anywhere in Australia! (http://www.transdirect.com.au/)
You pay via credit card and email a cart note to the seller who sticks it on the item.
I think they are part of Allied express. Not quite as reliable as DHL, but the goods get there despite the occasional delay.

Michael

[morrisman]

I use these guys
Courier Australia, Interstate Couriers, Freight Service Australia, Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Courier Delivery, Australian Courier Company, Perth, Adelaide, Hobart, Darwin, Canberra - Parcel Courier Service - Door to Door Anywhere in Australia! (http://www.transdirect.com.au/)
You pay via credit card and email a cart note to the seller who sticks it on the item.
I think they are part of Allied express. Not quite as reliable as DHL, but the goods get there despite the occasional delay.

Michael

Small world. That is the company I ended up using :2tsup:

They do PAYPAL as well , which is handy .

They give you multiple quotes from various couriers and you pick one .

Mike