Woodworking for Women

[bitingmidge]

I found a magazine today called Woodworking for Women, and it's associated site http://www.woodworkingforwomen.com/ which looks like any other woodworking site without any blokey stuff.

A question for the girls:

Is this a patronising way of providing a genuine service or a cynical attempt at separating a growing market niche from its disposable cash? (One of the tabs is "Shopping," but of course it's not aimed at anyone in particular! :D )

I can't see the gender relevance, woodworking is woodworking and techniques are the same (with some different techniques required for dexterity due to different sizes and strengths).

Reminds me of a group formed many years ago "women in architecture" which attempted to cash-in on supposed gender gap in design skills. My opposition group which was not gender based, "Persons with moustaches in architecture" was dismissed as a folly.......Perhaps there is a market for persons with moustaches in woodworking???

Now where was I???

P :D

[silentC]

I found a magazine today called Woodworking for Women
Is there something you want to tell us, Midge?

[bitingmidge]

Well I am trying to get in touch with my inner self.

Mrs Midge and I are having troubles deciding on a pattern for the doylies on the new bench.

P :D

[Tikki]

When I started out some years ago, the area in which I had most difficulty was being taken seriously by retailers - men. Had a run in with a jerk in Bunnies tool shop back then, no other customers, totally ignored me (perhaps I was too well dressed :D ). He was "relocated" to another department after I suggested he had a problem with women in a man's domain. Bought a SCMS there recently and their attitude has changed considerably. Some retail outlets now have woodworking demos aimed at the female market, not before time, they've finally figured money is money? I am comfortable being a female woodworker and can match it with the guys in my chosen craft. Maybe some women would prefer to mix it with their own. As for the forums, I like this one! :) The advice is good, and I can disregard the "blokey" stuff if it doesn't suit me.

Tikki

[Sturdee]

I found it's associated site http://www.woodworkingforwomen.com/ which looks like any other woodworking site without any blokey stuff.


Saw that site ages ago and first thought it might be something for Allana to visit :D but it is too nice for her. :D :D :D

BTW men also post to that site , but so booooring. :D


Peter.

[ozwinner]

I liked the peice by Feral Cheral best.

How to clean hog prints from your dirt floor.
And the other one,......... how to love a man, who isnt your kin....

Al :D

[jackiew]

had a look at that site some time ago but didn't bother to go back, this one is more interesting.

Whether a site or a magazine aimed at females is a good or a bad idea depends I think on who set it up and what they are providing. I would think that a women's woodwork or motorcycling or money site/magazine would have 95% non advertising content that was unisex. It would be the adverts and the other 5% which would determine whether it was worthwhile purchasing /browsing it.

I think there can be a place for "sexist" groups where women or men are in the minority in a particular career or interest. It can feel very lonely when you're a minority ( 1 female out of 100 in one department I worked at ) and even lonlier if you get treated like **** when you go to the local motorbike shop / tool shop etc and you're not sure why. Sometimes an all female group can answer those questions like - what are the best bikes if you've got short legs, or what is the best trade off between performance and weight for a circular saw or a router. But then again there are short men and guys who aren't particularly strong who might also benefit from that sort of information.

I wouldn't be bothered with any organisation which was so women-centric that men are excluded from all of their activities and similarly I tend to take a very dim view of those organisations that restrict committee positions and voting rights to men but are quite happy for wives and girlfriends to do all of the work.

[DanP]

Some retail outlets now have woodworking demos aimed at the female market, not before time,


Why :confused:

[ozwinner]

Surely woodwork is woodwork, no matter what you is, male or female, I cant see the relevence in targeting women, except for the dollar value.

BTW, I have some nice timber for sale, suit females only.

See how stupid it sounds??

Al :confused:

[bitingmidge]

So those of us who can't cut through a hardwood bearer holding a 10" power saw while balancing on one Volley-clad foot on the raking top plate of a cantilevered pole house, can find out another way to do things!


Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[DanP]

Precisely my point Al. Just a bit more long winded. ;)

[Tikki]

Why :confused: asked Dan:

Scenario: Your fly got ripped out of your strides when you fell from the top of the cantilevered pole house :D. You go into a sewing machine shop and ask what machine you'll need to sew it back in. The assistant sells you an overlocker :p.

I'm quite sure if you decided to take up dressmaking you'd like to see demonstrations of the equipment you need to do the job before you buy.

Half of the equipment in my shed is totally useless to me because I have purchased with little/no knowledge of their capability. I have had to rely on the salesperson and his knowledge of the product/s to match it/them to my needs.

When I went to school boys did woodwork, girls did needlework, there was no choice in subjects. With the growing interest in woodwork and home maintenance amongst women why not appeal to and cash in on that market.

And the winners are: Women with more knowledge and confidence to try woodworking, etc and the retailer who sells more of his product.

Why "not before time"? If I was walking around with my fly done up with safety pins, I'd be asking "when's the first demo?". :D

[DanP]

I'm quite sure if you decided to take up dressmaking you'd like to see demonstrations of the equipment you need to do the job before you buy.
Why "not before time"? If I was walking around with my fly done up with safety pins, I'd be asking "when's the first demo?". :D

Probably. But what would the response be if I demanded, or even asked for, a men only sewing class? I'm tipping it wouldn't be favourable. What I'm saying is that there has been nothing stopping women from joining these demo's and classes except themselves.


Half of the equipment in my shed is totally useless to me because I have purchased with little/no knowledge of their capability.

You should research any product before you buy it and know what you want when you walk into a store. This is not gender specific. I have had salesmen try to sell me a dowell jointer when I wanted a biscuit joiner. If you know what you are looking for you can't be given the wrong thing.

Dan

PS :p :p :p :p :p :p

[Tikki]

Persistent little bugger, aren't you. :D Ever thought of joining the Dog Squad? :p :p

Women have not asked for/demanded these demos, the decision has been made by the retailer based on the increasing interest by women. If enough interest was shown in dressmaking by men, in my opinion it would also be in their best interest to cater for that market too.

Bear in mind I'm talking about someone who has little/no knowledge of a particular craft, it's virtually impossible to research a product when you have no idea what you require to perform a specific task in the first place. You then have to rely on the advice of the retailer. I refer you to the scenario in my previous post :) .

Tikki

PS Hope the safety pins are holding up :D

[Woodlice]

Whats wrong with safety pins?

J!

[bitingmidge]

Whats wrong with safety pins?

J!
They're ok if your stapler has run out.

P
:D :D :D

[Christopha]

Them flamin' sheilas will be wanting us to do dishes and stuff next!!!! I say don't let 'er outa the kitc'n 'cept on Satdee night if I feel like a quicky!

Now that I have that off my my chest.... one of the little girlies who works in my wifes pharmacy is a carpenter by trade, she is a very competent tradeschick. She is also very feminine... if that matters... Working with U and Beaut at the woodshows I have talked to many WWWs' and have found them on average to be more astute than their male counterparts.... ifd you want a really dumb question it will usually come from a bloke and usually one who reckons he knows it all!

[Termite]

Bear in mind I'm talking about someone who has little/no knowledge of a particular craft, it's virtually impossible to research a product when you have no idea what you require to perform a specific task in the first place. :D

Tikki, as far as I'm concerned regarding this forum you are a member in very good standing, and should you ever in the future make a purchase without consulting the members of this forum first, then I shall be personally insulted. :D

[Christopha]

Tikki, as far as I'm concerned regarding this forum you are a member in very good standing, and should you ever in the future make a purchase without consulting the members of this forum first, then I shall be personally insulted. :D

Tikki, do whatcha like becausecwe have been "personally insulting" the flamin' white ant since he arrived here and he seems to thrive on it....

By the way, I was despatched by my god wife to buy some crochet hooks a couple of months back, the women in the sewing, knitting, cloth stuff shop were very helpful, not condescending and should I have requested a "Demo" then I am sure one would have been forthcoming. Two way street ????

[lacewood]

Whats wrong with safety pins?

J!

Nothing as long as you remember to close them properly... ;)

[lacewood]

I had the delightfull experience of fronting up at the counter of a hard ware store (which will remain nameless but it does not use dogs in its adds), not so long a go, with a "top of the line for them" down the list for most woodworkers ( I was desperate) chisel in hand. "If you are just going to open a paint tin or something there are some $3.00 ones in the bin over there" said the man behind the counter. :(

Bet the blokes don't get thaaat sort of comment! :))

[ozwinner]

Tikki, do whatcha like becausecwe have been "personally insulting" the flamin' white ant since he arrived here and he seems to thrive on it....

By the way, I was despatched by my god wife to buy some crochet hooks a couple of months back, the women in the sewing, knitting, cloth stuff shop were very helpful, not condescending and should I have requested a "Demo" then I am sure one would have been forthcoming. Two way street ????
Come on Chris, fess up.
You are crocheting a willy warmer, arnt you.

Al :D :p :eek:

[ozwinner]

Whats wrong with safety pins?

J!They must have been invented by a girl, I mean to say, they are safe.

Al :p

[Christopha]

Come on Chris, fess up.
You are crocheting a willy warmer, arnt you.

Al :D :p :eek:

Al, maaaate, there just ain't that much wool.......... actually I was making a beany, my wife called it a "Wally Warmer" :o

[Tikki]

Thanks guys :)

And if any of you need assistance with dressmaking, knitting, crochet, etc, ask away :D

BTW Christopher My husband does the dishes at our place. It's a two way street ;)

Tikki

[RufflyRustic]

I think I bought the first or second edition of the Woodworking for Women magazine and was highly unimpressed with it in the areas of price and content. Not a magazine for me, but other friends love it.

As for Bunnies/Mitre 10, I simply ignore the ignorant sales people who ignore me and deal with ones who realise I'm always there, whether it be browsing or buying. I've ended up making some good buddies at these shops and occasionally a good discount or heads up comes my way.

I've stunned a few people when they realise how passionate I am about wood working and that I'm actually not too bad at it. Then they actually become very supportive and willing to talk, teach and learn themselves even. Very Cool :)

I'm pretty used to working in a "man's" field so don't find the wood working arena too difficult to handle.

Cheers
RufflyRustic

[gatiep]

Tikki, Lace & Rusty,

I was in Bunnies a few months ago in the plumbing department. I was looking for some gear, but it soon dawned on me that they do not have what I require as a single unit/pack. The young guy had no idea what I was on about and I asked if there was someone with knowledge about plumbing on their staff. He vanished and I heard one of the cashiers calling for some assistance in plumbing. Next minute this chic came down the isle.......to be honest I thought " Oh well, just more bull....... to listen to". Great was my surprise when this chic said, grab this, cut there attach to this, bent there etc etc etc and hey she was spot on!
I have seen here around the isles before and always thought....yeah ok, just another shelfstacker........... how wrong I was.
Guess the moral of the story : Do not judge a persons capabilities on their gender. I get a fair % of ladies in the woodturning classes, sometimes accompanied by husbands, partners etc. and mostly the knock the pants off their partners, maybe because they are keen, don't have an I know better attitude and most importantly : They listen and do what and how they are told!

Great to see female woodworkers out there!

[silentC]

Do not judge a persons capabilities on their gender
Spot on, Joe. I guess we all are guilty of that at times (and it goes both ways too, believe you me).

It takes a brave woman to stand up and be counted in the 'traditionally' male arenas - mostly because there will always be a few blokes who want to see them fail. My wife has been on the board of directors at a local club for a little while now and it's amazing how the daggers come out from both men and women because they don't believe she's up to it.

Recently a couple of the male directors resigned because they didn't get their way on a motion. If anyone is not up to it, I'd say it was them.

[RufflyRustic]

My washing machine needed repairs - again - and this time we had a female technician fix it. I was so impressed. Yep, she listened to me explain about the intermittant noise, found it and fixed it. Very Very Cool.

Cheers
RR

[echnidna]

... one of the little girlies who works in my wifes pharmacy is a carpenter by trade, she is a very competent tradeschick. She is also very feminine... if that matters... Working with U and Beaut at the woodshows I have talked to many WWWs' and have found them on average to be more astute than their male counterparts.... ifd you want a really dumb question it will usually come from a bloke and usually one who reckons he knows it all!

Have to agree with stoppers, the female chippies I have encountered have all been better than average tradies. Maybe the klutz's drop out because of the male banter in the workplace.

[Sturdee]

My wife has been on the board of directors at a local club for a little while now and it's amazing how the daggers come out from both men and women because they don't believe she's up to it.


As you probably know I used to work at a golf club for many years. Originally women were not even considered real members only associates :eek: . Then equal opportunity arrived and they became real members and after a few years some women became members if the committee, like Silent's wife.

Originally they were treated by some male members as not worthy of being members let alone serving on the committee. However they soon proved to everyone that they were better at that job then most of the fuddy, duddy has been males that were on the committee.

They earned the respect of the staff and most sensible committee members. The club became better because of their involvement. Tell her to hang on in there Darren.


Peter.

[silentC]

She was in the car park yesterday and saw one of the guys who resigned. She went across to talk to him and he waved his arm at her and turned his back. I told her it's his loss. :mad:

[dan_tom]

Okay, I am "outting" myself now, but I guess signing my name off as Dan doesn't leave many to think that I could be DanIELLE. Yes, another lady woodworker over here. I do get called Dan, so it's not entirely deceiving! :rolleyes:

I love working with timber and am slightly amused by the reaction from the guys in woodworking places (actually Carbatec have been great, it Bunnies that have more of a problem - but once you go in with more of a clue than the tool guy, it soon puts them in their place and you get the respect that you should have got if you'd turned up with a beard).

I don't quite fit the "delicate lady woodworker" mould though - I'm 6 foot 1, ride a hog, work with slabs, wear steel cap boots and am a fellow at a university (academia in medicine is predominately male...) so I have been holding my own professionally for some time. I have an interest in feminist issues, (which by the way doesn't make me a lesbian)- my interest is in improving health literacy in rural areas and empowering women to reduce health inequities and inequalities (particularly across different cultures). When I am not doing the above, I wear dangly earrings, pink dresses, arrange flowers and get clucky as hell around my nieces! :D

I personally HATE :mad: seeing seminars etc devoted to "ladies only" - it means that the instructor talks to you slowly (I don't have a learning disability!) and you could potentially be surrounded by ladies with acrylic nails fearful of chipping their polish.. :( I avoided the seminar at the recent working with wood show here in Brisbane that was specifically for the ladies. I went to the others and had a good time.

I was disappointed last year when I signed up for a subscription of a reputable woodworking magazine, only to receive my first issue addressed to DEAR SIR :eek: . That nearly made me choke! I believe they have since revised their stationery to be DEAR CUSTOMER (and I think the editor is female :eek: ). I don't get it anymore.

Will check out the website - but if it is too light on and is not supportive and fun like this BB, then I'll give it a miss!

Cheers
Dan... i...e...ll....e

[RufflyRustic]

Hi Danielle,

I too chose not to attend that workshop at the Bris WoodShow - too many other things to do and hats to spot - shame I missed you and Tom there.

However, I'll be down your way at least once between now and Christmas (I kinda have to be torn away from my weekends of wood :D ) and hope we can meet up then.

Cheers
Wendy aka RufflyRustic

[bitingmidge]

I personally HATE :mad: seeing seminars etc devoted to "ladies only" - it means that the instructor talks to you slowly (I don't have a learning disability!) and you could potentially be surrounded by ladies with acrylic nails fearful of chipping their polish.. :( I avoided the seminar at the recent working with wood show here in Brisbane that was specifically for the ladies. I went to the others and had a good time.

Dan,

I guess that's where the question came from in the first place! (Although I find that acrylic nails hold up pretty well if you put a bit of insulation tape over them before doing anything heavy!)

Cheers,

P
:D :D :D

[Stylesy]

I reckon I'm the luckiest guy around - my girlfriend made her own jarrah bed (pictures yet to come when I can get the camera back from her) among other pieces, and we both love working with wood.

She recently made the comment "don't you love it that I encourage you to spend money at Carbatec, Timbecon etc - plus it means more toys for me to play with as well". What answer can you give to that but "YES"!! :D The instructions given for the choice of my next house exists of solely "it has to have a big shed" :D Think I'll stick with this one :p

[silentC]

My missus is into wood and metal too. She likes all the woods: the 3, 5 and 7. She enjoys her 5 and 7 irons. Also a lover of driving, she has been known to go +180m and is working up to 200.

[Jack E]

I'm 6 foot 1, ride a hog, work with slabs, wear steel cap boots

Jeez Dan,

You could have told me this when we were arguing over tax, I'm a little scared now :D :D :D



Carbatec have been great, it Bunnies that have more of a problem - but once you go in with more of a clue than the tool guy, it soon puts them in their place and you get the respect that you should have got if you'd turned up with a beard).

It doesn't matter who you are, I often get the same reaction and I think most people have more of a clue than the tool guy!


Cheers, Jack.

[dan_tom]

Jack E, I had a big chuckle at your last post. It's actually quite amusing to be a tall woman and see the reaction of folks around you. A particularly funny incident comes to mind - went to another uni last week to meet a visiting international Professor - he was about 5 foot 6, so I was quite a bit taller (mind you, I wasn't wearing heels - as I get a nose bleed at that altitude :D ). He shook my hand and then spent the next few minutes puffing his chest up and nearly hyperventilating just to try to be taller than me (I dunno, a hierarchy thing??)! I had to sit down so that he could compose himself and not fall over due to lack of oxygen to the brain.... the conversation then really started to get somewhere.

I never really think of myself as being "that" tall, until I stand in a lift and realise that the people next to me aren't that tall! Always been tall, played basketball and netball, so used my height and now I am lazier and not playing sport, I use my height to get that last can of baked beans off the top shelf in the supermarket for old ladies! :D

By the way, my "hog" is an orange Honda scoopy scooter. It's more of a "piglet" than a hog (it's only 50cc), but I ride it like I was "born to ride". The weather of late has been just beautiful, and only a ten minute scoot to work. Gotta love SE QLD - we moved here from Rozelle (inner city west Sydney) last year and haven't looked back!

Stylesy, I'm with you - I encourage Tom to go to Carbatec and sent him off the other week to get a new tungsten router bit. Now just to find time to use it this weekend....got my niece's 4th birthday party (of which I just made 30 buttefly shaped bikkies with pink and purple icing for...they smell great!). Make that 29 bikkies....

Cheers
Dan

[Ashore]

I'm 6 foot 1, ride a hog, work with slabs, wear steel cap boots
And to think I was going to say that theres always a place for women in my workshop the floor always needs sweeping.
No way now if your 6'1" imagine how big your husbant must be to keep you in line Like jack e im a little scared to say that.




My wife and I differ over religious beliefs. I think i"m God and she doesn't.

[Jack E]

I just made 30 buttefly shaped bikkies with pink and purple icing for...they smell great!

Aha!!!

I'm not scared any more :D :D :D

Cheers, Jack.

[Dendot]

Just thought I'd mention, reading this, that I am taking a break from sewing some tea-towels for my wife. She never realy learnt to use a sewing machine although we have had five daughters, (one of whom, incidentally now runs her own dressmaking business), so I do all the sewing at home.
Am I being sexist? Good! Because I believe that the idea of Political Correctness is a malignant tumour on the concept of Free Speech!
There's my twopennorth. What do others think?

[gatiep]

Dendot:

I figure that it is OK to do sewing at 76! The threaded needle at least works all the time! :o

[RufflyRustic]

And to think I was going to say that theres always a place for women in my workshop the floor always needs sweeping.

Careful Ashore, we might just sweep you out of the workshop :D :D :D :D

cheers
RufflyRustic

[shaunburgess]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Being 6ft 3 and of large build i walk in to Bunnies etc.. and i'm supposed to know what it is i want to buy, i don't think the people in these stores are sexist just plain stupid. They have no concept of selling a product, the idea is to sell the product a customer wants to buy not a product a salesperson wants to sell, this not the way to get repeat business. In trying to get a salesperson to help my wife at the working with wood show in Sydney on the weekend i actually had to walk away from the sales person otherwise they directed the answer's to my wife's question to me! This idiot didn't reliase i have no idea how to use a lathe but my wife is fully qualified in working on one. Therefore he didn't get the sale or any ongoing but "we" now love the two guys from Robert Sorby and the guys from Trend Timber and Tekna Tools as my wife is a proud owner of a Nova midi chuck and will direct all of her future purchases to these people.

As to myself, Carbatec which is about 10 minutes from my office won't be getting any sales, I imagine the Veritas dovetail jig isn't the best in the world but saying it's crap and directing me to their $98 show special really isn't that good also not showing me a table saw is going to hurt you guys cause after spending 20 minutes with the guy from Timbecon, if i can get over the orange colour, i will buy a table saw from them and the drill press, and the thicknesser, and the router table and the......

Being a professional sales person and watching how some people attempt to sell like i said before not sexist just stuppppid.

P.s. P&N you should really look at who you let sell your chisels, if they weren't Australian made we wouldn't even look at them again after the way the moron from some Tymba place treated my wife.

[namtrak]

......... It's actually quite amusing to be a tall woman and see the reaction of folks around you..........

C'mon Dan for crying out loud - your delusional!! Your not a tall woman - your a short giant!!

:eek:

And as for the Woodworking for Women magazine - that's not particularly sexist, however the Women for Woodworkers magazine - now thats something all together different. :)

How's the new job? ;)