simonl 26th May 2012, 08:15 AM Hi there,
I have a dial indicator that must be reasonably old. It's a 0.1 with a nice big face and i'd really like to use it but I have found that it has a fair amount of backlash and it sometimes sticks, giving erratic and non repeatable results.
Are there any ways to give it a spruce up, or adjustment, clean that may help bring it back to a useable state. Anything that is a no no in terms of cleaning?
I will never part with it even if I can't improve it as it was my Dad's and it has sentimental value to me and besides I like using old stuff. I have a micron digital DI that I bought from CTC tools and it's OK but I can't warm to it!
Here are some pics.
Cheers & Tanks
Simon
Dave J 26th May 2012, 09:11 AM You are supposed to use a clock oil on them for lube, but I never have. I use sewing machine oil as I have it around.
That bezel could be cleaned up, I have done a few. I use a loose leaf mope on the bench grinder with some white of green stick on it and they come up like new and it takes all the scratches away. You have to just do a little at the time so you don
t heat it up.
Also works great for CD and CD games the kids scratch, I am always doing the grand kids when they wont work.
Dave
NCArcher 26th May 2012, 10:12 AM I use a loose leaf mope on the bench grinder with some white of green stick on it.... I am always doing the grand kids when they wont work.
Dave
:o My kids are pretty lazy but I would never shove them into a grinder....:D
Sorry
If it is sticking it may need a clean first but I'm not sure what you would use. Some Contact cleaner maybe. Something that will dissolve the old lube that has gone hard.
Peter McBride would be the one to talk to.
Dave J 26th May 2012, 10:26 AM LOL, I reread it and laughed myself.:D
I should have put CD's after grand kids.
Dave
simonl 26th May 2012, 10:35 AM Ha!
Very good and well picked up. I was thinking of a circuit board cleaner? I have shot off an email to B.C. AMES for some info too. Not sure if they will help but it's worth a try.
Thanks,
Simon
Anorak Bob 26th May 2012, 10:50 AM Simon,
I used acetone to remove the gummy oil from one of my Mahr indicators. More here -
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/mahr-zentimess-oil-change-132563/
Bob.
simonl 27th May 2012, 09:08 PM Thanks Dave & Bob,
OK I've taken the plunge, good or bad time will tell. I've taken most of it apart and I can see very small amount of dirt & grim, especially on the rack. This excites me because if I play my cards right in the cleaning process it may end up really smooth and good as new! :U
Pretty much the only part not removed is the dial and the next gear which has the smallest spring I have ever seen. There's no way I'm messing with that!
OK tomorrow it gets cleaned in acetone.
Simon
Anorak Bob 28th May 2012, 08:29 AM Simon,
When I used acetone it removed all traces of lubrication, locking up the mechanism.
I applied the watch oil with a pin to all the pivot points. Be careful. Don't get oil on the rack shaft
Bob.
simonl 28th May 2012, 12:39 PM Simon,
When I used acetone it removed all traces of lubrication, locking up the mechanism.
I applied the watch oil with a pin to all the pivot points. Be careful. Don't get oil on the rack shaft
Bob.
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the info mate. I have had a false start with this, I bought some nail polish remover from the shops. That's not an easy task anymore, most of the stuff is all acetone free now! Anyway I managed to get some nasty stuff with acetone but it had built in vitamins and moisturiser (apparently for the cuticals and stuff) and it's left a residue. Damn them, why does nail polish remover have to get so fancy these days! I will venture out to the hardware store to get the proper stuff. Last night was a half arsed attempt at cleaning it as TV was boring me ####less! That will teach me.
No oil on the rack shaft? That's good to know as it would have been one of the first things I would have thought to oil! Assume it's because it just attracts dirt to the insides?
Cheers,
Simon
Anorak Bob 28th May 2012, 01:09 PM Have a look at post no.83 here Simon - http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/dial-gauge-addiction-150270/index6.html
Big Shed 28th May 2012, 01:20 PM Have a look at post no.83 here Simon - http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/dial-gauge-addiction-150270/index6.html
Bob, if you want to direct someone to a specific post in a thread you can do that by clicling on the post no. in the post heading, then copy the URL in the URL bar of your browser.
Like so
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/dial-gauge-addiction-150270/index6.html#post1469661
Ueee 28th May 2012, 01:36 PM Bob, if you want to direct someone to a specific post in a thread you can do that by clicling on the post no. in the post heading, then copy the URL in the URL bar of your browser.
Like so
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/dial-gauge-addiction-150270/index6.html#post1469661
Or just right click on the post no and go to "copy link location". Then you can just paste it.
Off topic, Nev got his arbors on Friday, have you got yours? I guess they do have a fair way to go.
Anorak Bob 28th May 2012, 01:45 PM Or just right click on the post no and go to "copy link location". Then you can just paste it.
Off topic, Nev got his arbors on Friday, have you got yours? I guess they do have a fair way to go.
The closest I get to copy link location is copy shortcut.:no: I will ask my wife to patiently help me with this tonight along with posting a YouTube vid. Should be a challenge.
Nothing has rolled up yet Ewan. I will let you know when it does so we can sort out payment.
Bob.
simonl 28th May 2012, 05:57 PM Well armed with some proper acetone and some quality"Singer" oil i had another crack!
Dismantling the second time around presented no chance of unexpected surprises! A second bath in acetone saw even more dirt left behind. A small (really not that easy to drop a small amount of oil) amount of oil in each of the bearing points where the gears move on and back together it went. Trickiest part was to get just the right amount of preload on that fine clock spring. Too much and you risk damage at full travel and it also requires too much spring force to move the dial. Too little and its hesitant to return and you can create backlash. I hope i got it just about right but hard to know until i actual use it. It certainly feels smooth, doesn't. Bind and the needle seems to travel freely. Its definately the best its ever going to be which is all i could hope for! The plastic face is still average at this stage but i can live with it for now. Ill have a go at polishing that when i get an appropriate wheel.
Thanks for everyones help.
Simon
Dave J 28th May 2012, 09:40 PM Hi Simon,
You are better off taking it out to polish it. I should have taken pictures off it when I have done it, but you can do that now, LOL
This might help you and others if you need to remove the needle, it was posted on Home machinist last year and would be easily enough made.
Repairing Calipers - The Home Shop Machinist & Machinist's Workshop Magazine's BBS (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t=28659)
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210014&stc=1&d=1338201373
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210015&stc=1&d=1338201373
http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210016&stc=1&d=1338201373
Dave
simonl 28th May 2012, 10:13 PM Hi Dave,
Yea I did try to ease it out after removing a locking type circlip but it wouldn't move and I didn't want to force it. It's pretty badly damaged, I may be better off making a new one out of thin polycarbonate or something similar.
At this stage I will be happy if it is useable.
Cheers,
Simon
Michael G 29th May 2012, 08:08 AM Simon, the crystals on indicators are apparently slightly oversize and a special tool is used to insert them. However, the oversize bit means that they get a nice domed look when popped into the ring. I did think about it but got to the point where it was getting too hard to work out how to do it without getting complicated.
That tool that Dave posted looks interesting, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to put a pin in the end of a SHCS. However, if you did work out how to replace crystals, remove pointers and generally clean up indicators you might have discovered a nice little side line as I think we all have indicators that could do with some attention.
Michael
Anorak Bob 29th May 2012, 08:35 AM Thanks for posting that link Dave. My 8 inch Mitutoyo dial caliper stopped functioning correctly after a fall off the lathe and onto the concrete floor. I bought a 6" version yesterday but it measures 0.200" per revolution rather than the easier to see 0.100" of the 8". I tried to pop apart the 8 yesterday but 2 screws will not budge. I will have a go at entry through the dial. I have a hand remover.
Bob.
Anorak Bob 29th May 2012, 08:39 AM Hi Dave,
Yea I did try to ease it out after removing a locking type circlip but it wouldn't move and I didn't want to force it. It's pretty badly damaged, I may be better off making a new one out of thin polycarbonate or something similar.
At this stage I will be happy if it is useable.
Cheers,
Simon
Simon,
Have a look on Ebay in the States. Often people sell spare parts including crystals, mainly for Starrett indicators, but you might be lucky.
Bob.
simonl 29th May 2012, 09:04 AM Simon, the crystals on indicators are apparently slightly oversize and a special tool is used to insert them. However, the oversize bit means that they get a nice domed look when popped into the ring. I did think about it but got to the point where it was getting too hard to work out how to do it without getting complicated.
That tool that Dave posted looks interesting, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to put a pin in the end of a SHCS. However, if you did work out how to replace crystals, remove pointers and generally clean up indicators you might have discovered a nice little side line as I think we all have indicators that could do with some attention.
Michael
OK so that domed looking front is created by inserting under tension. That makes sense, also gives it more strength to resist being accidently pushed in.
Dave,
If I pulled the body away from the front, the needle would have come off but then I would have ended up with the needle floating around in the front panel, I still need to find away to get the front glass off and I don't feel at all confident with my cock fingers to do that!
Cheers,
Simon
Michael G 29th May 2012, 10:11 AM Crystal insertion -
233 : Crystal Insertion for indicators and calipers (http://www.longislandindicator.com/p233.html)
Michael
MacPuddock 29th May 2012, 11:02 AM I replaced a crystal a few years ago.
I found a discussion on a metalcraft site and sort of followed the method suggested by DoN Nichols.
I saved a copy of the relevant post.
Good Luck,
Findlay.
Dave J 29th May 2012, 11:08 AM Simon, the crystals on indicators are apparently slightly oversize and a special tool is used to insert them. However, the oversize bit means that they get a nice domed look when popped into the ring. I did think about it but got to the point where it was getting too hard to work out how to do it without getting complicated.
That tool that Dave posted looks interesting, although I'm not sure how easy it would be to put a pin in the end of a SHCS. However, if you did work out how to replace crystals, remove pointers and generally clean up indicators you might have discovered a nice little side line as I think we all have indicators that could do with some attention.
Michael
Thats not a pin, it is the bolt turned down to that size.
If you follow the link he explains how he did it under the first photo.
Dave
Michael G 29th May 2012, 02:36 PM Thanks Dave. I thought it might be turned from the photo you posted but as I've never had much luck turning SHCS so if I were going to make one I'd probably try inserting a pin rather than turning one down.
The link to the Don Nichols item was interesting too. Makes it sound simple, although as he comments getting the crystal out is a trick in itself.
Michael
Stustoys 29th May 2012, 02:44 PM Hi Simon,
All this is on my to do list as well.
Pick the oil up with a pin.
Stuart
simonl 30th May 2012, 01:26 PM Hi all,
I just received a reply email from BC AMES about the DI.
Here's their reply:
There has been an update to several features, but most of the parts are still available and the 312 remains in our product line.
The one problem we may have is the dial. I hope your dial is acceptable for use, it's tough to tell from the pictures. If it a cup dial we can not directly replace it. The new dials are flat and that requires changing the bezel which changes the look of the old indicator. With luck the damage is all to the crystal. If it is a cup dial the crystal usually can be inserted from the back with out any tools. New bezels have a retaining groove to keep the crystal from moving back (that is what the cup on the dial does in the old style) making the crystal very hard to insert without a cupping press. We use the cupping press even for the old style as it assures fast insertion without scratching the new crystal.
If there is backlash and sticking the only thing you can do is to disassemble and clean the parts. Reassemble the indicator making sure there is no damage to any of the parts and that the bearings are not worn. Adding most oils will make the indicator sticky as the oils dry out. You need a high quality clock oil that will not dry if you are going to oil the indicator. It does have brass bearings so it may will run dry better than with any of the common oils.
If you would prefer we can do the work here. A new 312 is currently priced at $267.00, repair and a calibration check can cost as much as half the cost of new, but if all it needs is a cleaning it would be less. Depending on what you want, I can have my repair department clean the indicator and not replace parts even if it does not fall in calibration specifications. I would let you know if we found damage that would keep the indicator from running well, replacement of parts would them be up to you. In this situation the cleaning, including replacement crystal and any small parts we need, would be $50.00. If you do decide to send it in, just make sure you pack it very carefully to avoid any shipping damage and send it to my attention at the address below.
Regards,
Anyway, I'm contemplating sending it for a crystal replacement, clean and hopefully a minor repair. At $50 it's probably not bad value. Just need to get a quote for sending it which I can probably do on line with Aust post.
Cheers,
Simon
Anorak Bob 30th May 2012, 01:46 PM You could not ask for a better response than that Simon.
Dave J 30th May 2012, 01:55 PM Sounds good to me Simon.
Dave
Greg Q 30th May 2012, 02:01 PM Wow, that is indeed a great response.
In the meantime, you can improve the crystal a long way by polishing it with brasso or whatever other polishing compound you have, and a rag. I think I remember being caught using an electric toothbrush on such a chore once, come to think of it. :)
Greg
simonl 30th May 2012, 03:55 PM Thanks guys. I thought the same thing. No wonder they are still in business producing fine products. There is no substitute for good quality products and great service!
The Aus Post online calculator has quoted me as low as $16.90 for a parcel up to 2 Kg with registered international post requiring a signature in receipt.
How good is that?
Why do ebay USA sellers charge so much? :~:~:~
Simon
Dave J 30th May 2012, 04:12 PM I didn't realise it was a US company, for some reason I thought it was a Aus company.
That might bring it up around the $100 mark with postage both ways, but being your Dads it would be worth it and will last you out if you don't drop it.:o.
Dave
Stustoys 30th May 2012, 06:10 PM Hi Simon,
Are you sure about that postage? I come up with $23.25 + $9(if its over 500g)
Still its certainly great service.
Stuart
simonl 30th May 2012, 08:42 PM Hi Simon,
Are you sure about that postage? I come up with $23.25 + $9(if its over 500g)
Still its certainly great service.
Stuart
I'm pretty sure. If you click on the $13.20 service you will see that the service includes max. 2Kg. Price goes up to $16.90 if you want a signature.
Unless I've read it wrong?
Cheers,
Simon
.RC. 30th May 2012, 08:59 PM I killed the crystal on a Mitutoyo dial indicator by washing it with acetone..... it made the plastic it was made out of get all these crazed cracks in it...
Stustoys 30th May 2012, 09:05 PM Hi Simon,
The only price I can find that matches $13.20 is for a DLE envelope(114x225mm). Unless you squeeze the gauge down to 20mm thats not going to work. You need a parcel.
Stuart
Big Shed 30th May 2012, 09:20 PM I killed the crystal on a Mitutoyo dial indicator by washing it with acetone..... it made the plastic it was made out of get all these crazed cracks in it...
I would have thought Isopropyl Alcohol would have been a better solvent for cleaning an instrument like this.
simonl 31st May 2012, 11:34 AM Hi Simon,
The only price I can find that matches $13.20 is for a DLE envelope(114x225mm). Unless you squeeze the gauge down to 20mm thats not going to work. You need a parcel.
Stuart
Oops yes you are correct!
Hi Big shed. Well when it comes to the crystal and particularly the face, anything is better than acetone. I think acetone will lift paint and dissolve certain polymers.
Simon
| |