Is it worth milling timber for sale??

[Mitchell Jack]

G'day All

I have quite a bit of spoted gum I could mill and would like to know what the market is like?? looking at getting a lucas I realise it is a lot of work but i have the use of a good loader tractor and i am young and fit... I also have some use for the timber my self to start off....

We are i Centrl Qld and would like to no if this would be a good busness?
I would be wonting to make a lot beta money than wages in the long run if i was to take this on.

Cheers Mitch

[whitewood]

Mitch,

You may not get a reply from the small millers as there are too many variables that impact on the return you will get. All I'll say is that there is a considerable outlay to set up and it will take several years before the timber dries and you get the best price for it. In my opinion milling timber is not a 'get rich quick deal'.

Whitewood

[jenno]

Where abouts in Cntrl Qld mate?

[rustynail]

There are much easier ways of making a dollar. The most important thing, is to have a good supply of timber and a ready market. It is a bonus if you have the ability to use the timber yourself. Only trouble here is, you havent time to do both. Buying a mill wont get you any of these situations automatically. You need to research your options and then make a judgement based on your findings.

[Bushmiller]

Mitch

Welcome to the Forums and in particular the timber milling section.

I can relate to your situation as it was a freak storm that blew down quite a few spotted gums that brought me into timber milling.

However........Rusty Nail has suggested issues that you should consider very carefully. Certainly being young and fit puts you ahead of the game and the use of a mechanical loading vehicle is another advantage, but if you wanted to go down this track I might look at running it in conjunction with a "day" job.

I don't think very many millers would describe themselves as wealthy, although they enjoy what they are doing and they have carved out a lifestyle for themselves.

If you are just looking for timber for yourself, as we have suggested recently to several prospective millers, look at getting in a portable miller to cut logs to your specifications.

How much you can make? Well some simple sums: depending on your mill you might cut between one and two M3 in a day. More likely one M3. But you can't cut all day long. You have to fell a tree and prepare it for milling. You have to position it. Once you have cut the timber you have to move it.

Others may be able to give a better estimate of what it is worth, because there are a huge amount of variables and I have been away from this side of things for too long.

Part of the story is cutting timber. The greater part is handling timber.

Regards
Paul

[Mitchell Jack]

Thank you

Yer i dont no yet i still have to work out a deal with the owner on how much I will have to pay for the trees..... I would have to just start by milling on weekends and stock piling... I was thinking at looking at markets like decking ect

[Sigidi]

Mitch, its not worth it mate, I'll find a home for ya spotty :D

[Stopper]

Mitch,
Don't listen to Allan. Go for it yourself. If nothing else you'll learn a lot.:) Who knows you might make some money as well. Jut don't put your house on it.

cheers
Steve

[Bushmiller]

Mitch,
Don't listen to Allan. Go for it yourself. If nothing else you'll learn a lot.:) Who knows you might make some money as well. Jut don't put your house on it.

cheers
Steve

Steve

I think Al was a bit tongue-in-cheek there:wink:. You are right about the house though and Mitch should be aware of exactly what he is getting in to.

It is the same with anybody working for themselves: No paid holidays, no paid sick leave and no employer contributed superanuation as everything is provided by the owner.

Regards
Paul

[chambezio]

just another observation to think about. I regard sawn green hardwood as a "perishable" item to a certain extent. If you were cutting scantling for house construction (4 X 2, 3 X 2, 4 X 1.5 etc) you would not want them stock piled too long because as they dry out they become harder to use. With decking though you would/should leave it season for a while before you lay it down.(Otherwise you end up with huge gaps between the boards as they dry). I suppose what I am saying is that you really need to be cutting for a "real" order rather than just cutting and hope that you will find a buyer.
It won't be an easy decision to make but do think it all through.

[Sigidi]

Mitch, I've found, if the sawmill runs u make money,the sawmill needs logs to run, I'll leave the rest up to you ;)

[Stopper]

Steve

I think Al was a bit tongue-in-cheek there:wink:. You are right about the house though and Mitch should be aware of exactly what he is getting in to.

It is the same with anybody working for themselves: No paid holidays, no paid sick leave and no employer contributed superanuation as everything is provided by the owner.

Regards
Paul

My comment was also tongue in cheek. We all know what Al is like when he gets a wiff of some good spotty. :U

Mitch probably needs to know a bit about the problems with spotted gum before buying the mill and striking a deal on the log royalty. eg. recovery rates when the logs have a wide sap band etc.
Might be worth discussing here.

cheers
Steve

[BobL]

.
Part of the story is cutting timber. The greater part is handling timber.
.


Like any business the greatest part is dealing with clients (buying and selling). I don't know what it is especially about timber, but it seems they want to sell logs for a fortune and buy sawn timber nothing. My guess is they have no idea of the effort involved in generating it.

[Bushmiller]

Like any business the greatest part is dealing with clients (buying and selling). I don't know what it is especially about timber, but it seems they want to sell logs for a fortune and buy sawn timber nothing. My guess is they have no idea of the effort involved in generating it.

Bob

Good point. The trees are not really worth very much. I think when I was milling (I never bought logs, but I was working with a bloke who was selling them to a commercial timber mill) they might have been about $40 a cube. I would expect that would be a little more now as that was twelve years ago. The cost of sawn hardwood at the time was around $500 to $600 direct from a mill.

When dealing with a property owner it may be neccessary to explain that only half (or possibly less if the trees are small) of those logs will be recovered in useful timber. As Steve has pointed out, this is especially true of spotted gum which can have sapwood up to 40mm thick.

Also you need to be clear about what level of clearing up he is expecting. Do you have to "clear up" the heads or is the property owner happy for you to leave them where they fall?

Regards
Paul

[Bushmiller]

My comment was also tongue in cheek. We all know what Al is like when he gets a wiff of some good spotty. :U

Mitch probably needs to know a bit about the problems with spotted gum before buying the mill and striking a deal on the log royalty. eg. recovery rates when the logs have a wide sap band etc.
Might be worth discussing here.

cheers
Steve

Steve

I know what a sensitive bunch we are at times so no harm in clarifying things:D.

Spotted gum is, for me, one of the interesting timbers and in some ways very under valued. Back around the fifties it was used extensively for house framing, but fell from favour with the advent of radiata pine, which was so much easier to work.

I don't really think either were/are suitable as they are not white ant resistant. I believe all radiata framing is now "blue pine" for that same reason.

Spotted gum's more recent claim to fame is being the preffered australian timber for tool handles. There are others, I am told, that are suitable, but they are not available in commercial quantities. Spotted gum's impact resistance is the quality that makes it suitable for this purpose.

My experience is that spotted gum with a diameter less than 600mm is problematical for milling. Once the bark and sapwood are removed the dimensiona are significantly reduced. The sapwood can be up to 40mm thick. (It is the thick sapwood that makes them suitable for pressure treatment and their use as power poles). There is a lot of tension in spotted gum which is a problem for a portable sawmill. Small trees will result in cutting bananas:(.

Having said that, when I was cutting for tools handles they were more than happy to take sapwood too. In fact they welcomed it. I have never been able to get my head around that one as it seems to fly in the face of everything I hold true.

The sizes required for tool handles are unusual (with the exception of 50 x 50) and it is impractical to cut conventional sizes at the same time.

The timber for tools handles has to be defect free. Perfect. One problem I had was that after the storm knocked down the trees (probably forty or fifty, I can't really remember now) they sat for a year while I organised things and the lyctus beetle got into them. That was ok as it was primarily in the sap only, but the pinhole borer was in the heartwood too.

Spotted gum needs to be milled fairly soon after it is felled.

So why do I have this thing about spotted gum? Partly because it is what I have as well as grey gum and forest red gum. I happen to think that the grain is particularly beautiful, but in this age where so many people (customers) want red timber it does not rate so highly.

Spotted gum is corymbia maculata, but in QLD lemon scented gum (c.citriodorus) is marketed under the same commercial name. It has similar properties, but my experience (limited) is that it does not have such an attractive grain and is really rather plain. However, it could be that it is my spotted gum that is "special.":).

Spotted gum is often included in the so-called royal species although it is not white ant resistant. It is very strong and resiliant. I make my cant hooks from it. I have attached a pic of some chisels I made up for my son quite a while back. You may be able to get an idea of the grain quality from the handles, but it is subtle:wink:.

Regards
Paul

[Mitchell Jack]

Thankyou for all the posts!! And good to hear some positives:B!!

I would be interested in any info on spoted gum as a timber and also mountain ash??

I do have to admit the idea of making trees into timber is pretty exciting even if all i do is build myself some sheds ect then if i cant find a good market well guess i could always sell the mill at a later date...

Thanks for all the info!

[Mitchell Jack]

just another observation to think about. I regard sawn green hardwood as a "perishable" item to a certain extent. If you were cutting scantling for house construction (4 X 2, 3 X 2, 4 X 1.5 etc) you would not want them stock piled too long because as they dry out they become harder to use. With decking though you would/should leave it season for a while before you lay it down.(Otherwise you end up with huge gaps between the boards as they dry). I suppose what I am saying is that you really need to be cutting for a "real" order rather than just cutting and hope that you will find a buyer.
It won't be an easy decision to make but do think it all through.

Yer that is true i guess but if the timber needs to be seasoned i guess they would,t be wonting to wait months for an order.... I guess that is where a kiln would come in to play..?

[Bushmiller]

Other uses for spotted gum, which I previously omitted, are floorboards and lining boards.

Regards
Paul

[weisyboy]

there are 4 things you need to make a living milling.

1. a mill

2. logs

3. skill

4. a market

some are harder than others to get

#1 requires only cash so is pretty easy

#2 not so easy unless you have money to spend and a few big farms around. one of the hardest things to do is secure a reliable supply of logs.

#3 now this is something that is very important. i would recommend cutting timber for a year for yourself before selling any, that is if you are good at self learning and pay attention to what the log is doing. otherwise go work for someone with a mill that knows what they are doing (about 10% of mill owners) for 6 months that way you will have some idea.

#4 there is a market waiting that will take semi loads a week of sawn timber at a reasonable price

as for log price round here its siting about $150-200/cube for first grade logs on teh stump, once you get about 100km from Brisbane the price drops, some places as log as $50 a cube on stump but id say average is about $80-100 a cube.

there is good money to be made milling if you get the #### together

where abouts in central Q are you?