Need Ideas for Where to Market my CNC Plasma Cutter

[beefy]

Hi Everyone,

I've built myself a cnc plasma cutting table and I'm wondering where I can look to make myself some pocket money from it to help pay for the fortune it's cost me to build. The thickest I've cut so far is 16mm but the torch is supposed to be able to pierce and cut 19mm, and cut even thicker with an edge start.

I've got both artistic cad and 3d mechanical cad software for the design side of things.

Edge quality cannot compete with laser of course but then the price won't be as high.

Anybody know if welders periodically need steel profile cutting doing ??

Cheers,

Keith.

[Retromilling]

The average guy has a real problem nowadays with marketing any new invention.
You can present it to a prospective buyer or manufacturer only to have them say no , and then six months later your invention is on the market in a slightly different form .
If you patent a new idea it only protects you for certain ways and materials to make it in. So it costs big money to patent an idea and if it fails and don't sell you are living in your car.
Plasma cutters are already out there and in an array of materials and designs so patenting would be very difficult .
Most inventors nowadays approach a manufacturer and get an expression of interest in the basic idea but no specs and plans . Then you get a industrial contract lawyer to draw up an agreement between you and the manufacturer that says they can not use your idea if they decline to market it.
Only thing is this does not stop the idea from finding it's way to China .
Unless an idea is totally new and you have a reputation for designing new cutting edge technology ( pardon the pun) few manufacturers will even talk to you , or even less will sign an agreement .
If the product does not have a truly mass market potential and even some of the big ideas fail , I think it may be better to make and market it yourself , starting in a small way to test it out . That way you don't get it stolen straight up and by the time someone takes notice of your design you have made some money and may have a niche market that a big manufacturer can not compete with your personel custom service and lower prices .
They may well steal your idea in the end but you were on the market first and have some local reputation .
It is real easy to sell stuff right on this type of forum and I would suggest you come up with a prototype that you can offer up for interested potential customers . Don't do it until you can actually make some for delivery but it is quite ok to offer something and say I am not ready to deliver just yet but am asking for expressions of interest and from that you can make a few and then advertise for sale and giving first prefernce to those who expressed interest .
You have E bay , Gum tree , forums , markets , all kinds of potential outlets that can expose your product , while keeping the overheads down .
It is not a good market out there at the moment , the economy is in trouble all over the world and at home people are afraid of rising costs at the moment .
However a good product that people need , supplied at a reasonable price is always welcome on the market , especially if it is Australian made.
If you were to make a dent in the market you could then offer the idea to a local machine shop to manufacture and sell with you just getting a royalty on each sale.
That way it frees you up to invent something else.
I wish you luck .

[Dave J]

I might be wrong, but I think he wants work plasma cutting steel for people.

Dave

[Retromilling]

I might be wrong, but I think he wants work plasma cutting steel for people.

Dave

After re-reading it you are right Dave . I thought he wanted to also market the idea , silly me .

[beefy]

Ha ha

yes it is plasma cutting work I am looking for, but still, your lengthy writeup is very much appreciated. I actually do have quite a few ideas that given time and money I would like to try and make something of. So the effort in your reply has not gone to waste.

Thanks very much,

Keith.

[Dave J]

As Retromilling said above there are a lot of sharks out there that will take your idea and run with it.
I sold some gear to a guy 10 or so years ago, and while he was here he spotted the small crane on my ute. He said business was slow at the engineering firm he co owned and asked about buying the rights off it for them to build them.
I was a sceptically of this guy and ended up I was right, he asked me to go over to the work shop and show the other owner where they took measurements and details of where to get parts etc and said they would get back to me. They moved not long after and of course I never heard a thing and who knows, they might or might not be making them now.

I am not sure if your looking for full time or part time work, but your going to need a fork lift or crane to move the steel around and onto it.
My local steel place has a guy on the plasma cutter sectioned off in one part of the work shop. It is his own machine and they do not run him, but he does all there plasma cutting and is able to pick the steel using there over head crane.
I am not sure how it all works out, but I think he rents the space and quotes work they need and buys the steel from them. I do know he owns the sell in his bay as I have bought some off him over the years and it has nothing to do with the main building.

I am not sure if something like this would suit you, but even if you did it say 2 days a week and set it up with your local steel place in a corner somewhere. It would benefit them because you would be buying you materials off them.
I think this is the only way it would work out, because you need materials on hand and the customers ringing ordering it.

Dave

[beefy]

Hi Dave,

that's excellent information and something I might work towards.

It has been mentioned that a lot of fab shops don't have their own cnc cutting gear. Even if they could afford it, understanding and running cnc plasma is not as straight forward as many think, so many variables in it to get a good quality cut.

Thanks a lot,

Keith.

[Dave J]

Hi Keith.
My local steel place just sells steel out of a big shed, and the only machinery they have is a bandsaw to cut stuff to length. Every time I am over there they might be walking around with not much to do, but the plasma guy is always busy.

I am going to convert my medium size mill over to CNC and have bought all the ball screws, so I know what your talking about with the drawing and programing as I have looked into a bit, but there is so much to learn I have only scratched the surface.

Dave

[jatt]

My local steel place has a guy on the plasma cutter sectioned off in one part of the work shop.

Seen this kind of thing before except it was an orb forming machine, instead of a plasma cutter.

I do like the small set ups around the traps for buying small offcuts. Not unusual for me to be scooting around the scrap bin behind the guillotine. If the guy could be bothered he might charge me a few of bucks for beer money, otherwise its just a case of its going to scrap anyway. Know the feeling, at work there is only so much offcuts you can keep. Unfortunately for the most part, there is no scrap market for what we chuck.

Good luck with it

jatt.

[beefy]

Thanks for the good luck wish Jatt.

Dave - wow, so the plasma guy is always busy, eh, that's good to here. I wonder if he's doing cuts for fabriction work or artistic style cutting. Artistic is supposed to have better profit per item BUT if it's a one off, the time spent on the art side of things can negate the better profit. I get quite fuzzy at the thought of cutting a zillion identical nested parts out of one sheet of steel, as opposed to 20 different pieces that you had to do artistic cad on before they could be cut. Many people resent paying for cad work too, they associate a dollar value to the part alone, not what was involved in producing that one part. Ah the joy of business.

I wish you the very best with you quest to convert your mill to cnc. The learning road can be testing but once you get there and think wow I did that, it feels pretty good. If you ever want to ask me anything, feel free. I'm fortuneate to be an industrial sparky by trade with a bit of electronics experience chucked in. If you are using stepper motors I highly recommend Gecko drives, good price and great performance. Guess you've heard of cnczone, if not check it out.

Keith.

[Dave J]

Hi Keith,
I know I have seen lots of circles off cuts there, along with base plates for sheds etc.
I have been a member on CNC zone for a few years now. I will be using DC servos from Kellings in the US, 850 oz from memory.
Thanks for the offer of help if I need it. The way I am buying stuff is pretty well plug and play, until something goes wrong and the servos need tuning, LOL

Dave

[beefy]

Well you're already doing what I would have recommended. Plug and play is a good way to go. I did things the hard way due mainly to financial constraints, thus buying parts bit by bit. Designed and built my own power supply, protection circuits, etc, purchased everything individually so needed to learn all the technical details of how everything matches correctly, etc. Next time (if), it's going to be a package as much as possible.

Especially so if it's certain to make money (the big IF). The faster time to getting it up and running would compensate for any extra costs.

I have learnt a lot though. Just had a though, you might know more than me if you've been frequenting the zone that long. I might ask you for advice, he he.

Keith.

[Dave J]

I just had a look at my joining date over there and it's Feb 2008,:o I go under Davo J over there.
Even though I have been a member there that long, there is still so much to learn. The mechanical side of things is fine, it's the electrics and the cad/programing that I will have to study up on. I have done a lot of wiring over the years so thats not bothering me.

Money is my hold up, and I will have to build my own 90v power supply as it costs to much to have one shipped from the US with the weight of them.
Kellings have a package where they supply the motors and encoders, but not sure what drives I will get at this stage, as I don't have the money yet and things change quick, so whats great today might not be in 12 months time.

How about posting some pictures of you machine, I am sure you will get a lot of feed back.

Dave

[beefy]

Dave,

my table is not something I'd take photos of at this stage, not pretty enough. Having built things on a budget, as well as time constraints due to running my little excavation business and being a dad, everything was stuck together as I got the opportunity. I'm actually going to rebuild some of it to increase its rigidity for higher speed cutting on the thinner metals.
Here's a description of it though. Cutting area 2.4m x 1.5m. Long / X axis (gantry drive) is done by dual chains on a common shaft, which is driven by a single stepper motor. The Y axis (moves the torch / Z-axis horizontally along the gantry) is chain drive too. Both X and Y drives have synchronous pulley reduction 6.22 : 1 to drive the chain sprockets. The Z-axis which moves the torch up and down is a 5mm pitch leadscrew which I cut on my lathe.
Electronics are Candcnc with digital torch height control (a must for quality cuts) and initial height sensing by touching off on the steel before each cut. Home built power supply and the awesome Gecko drives for running the stepper motors.
The changes I'm going to make are: dump the chains and swap to dual rack and pinion for the X-axis with dual motors and reduction units mounted on the gantry. Change the Y-axis to rack and pinion too. Build another gantry with a different linear bearing design which will dramatically increase rigidity. I'll also be lowering the height of the gantry to increase rigidity too and stop it being so top heavy. I've got a water table tray ready but still has to be installed.
The table is functioning perfectly and has good accuracy but for cutting thinner metals at higher speeds the chains bounce and cause oscillation which produces a blunt "sawtooth" edge sometimes. Thicker materials and therefore slower cut speeds are fine. The initial touch off is where the torch wizzes down to a preset height then moves down slowly the rest of the way until a floating head microswitch is tripped. This tells the system where the top of material is. The torch is then raised to pierce height and is switched on for a set time before moving down to cut height. After a slight delay the cut height is monitor via arc voltage and the torch moves up or down as necessary to precisely maintain the cut height.
At present I'm busy designing a new business card and redoing my excavation website www.excavationtech.com.au (http://www.excavationtech.com.au) (once I upload it) because work has been terrible this year so need to get some heavy duty marketing underway or I'll be looking for a job. Very frustrating because my interest is with my little engineering shop and plasma cutter but lack of finances and looking after this present business keep getting in the road.
Regarding drives for your servos. I've got no experience with Geckos servo drives but their stepper drives ALWAYS come highly recommended. Before Geckos I tried Leadshine, and I think they should have been called Leadshite. My poor quality stepper motors would stall so easily with the Leadshine drive (which cost more) but with the Geckos they run the table great and the motors run very cool. Gecko support is also excellent. Homan Designs in Australia is now selling Gecko drives for the same price as what they are sold in the States. I'm not sure but I think Homan Designs stepper motors are also Kelings, but not sure if they sell servo motors too.

Keith.