Newbie woodworker - dovetail jig question

[Ozziespur]

Hey guys,

I have some cash from a birthday to buy some woodworking gear. I'm interested in getting a dovetail jig and making some boxes and the like with some nice looking dovetails.

My problem is perhaps my router. My wife bought me an ozito router last year and it's been good (see pic). I've used it for mainly rounding edges and dado's, never dovetails.
http://mccallum.assets2.blockshome.com/assets/ozito/ozito-clean-pics/2P70082CaEFgO60/ROUTER-PRR-1200.jpeg (http://mccallum.assets2.blockshome.com/assets/ozito/product-pics/3KOzn8Nv8Hf4BjV/1200-watt-router.jpg)

It's only 1200w and has a 1/4" collet. Will this be a problem working with a leigh jig ? Maybe a cheaper (taiwanese) jig is more my go given my experience ?
Please excuse my ignorance as I'm new to woodworking and am perhaps wanting to run before I can walk ....

Any advice from more experienced folk appreciated.

[Gunnaduit]

I've got a Leigh D4R and I don't think you'd be better off getting a cheaper no-brand one, if you think you'll use it over a lifetime then buy quality, so you don't just end up buying the better one in 5 year's time anyway.

Some say you can cut by hand with practice (even if you didn't start at 14), that's the other way to go -- why not see if you're a natural at that first? There was a particularly good FWW article about it (Dec 2008 "A Trip to the Dovetail Doctor") by Rogowski that went into more detail than the usual explanations about it. On the FWW archive DVD.

All the Leigh prices came down a fair bit since I got mine, so you'd be lucky. On the Leigh website there's a long list of routers and the collets they need to work with the jig. Can't comment on the power.

[groeneaj]

Have a look at the Gifkins dovetail jig. Australian made and owned and it's excellent! Plenty of guys on the forum own one including myself.

Andy

[Just George]

For the Gifkins and the Leigh, you need a 1/2" router. They need a longer/stronger bit than you can generally get from a 1/4" bit.

Spend the extra on the Super 12 Leigh, I have the use of one and they are great for though, blind and sliding dovetails. Get yourself a Triton JOF 1010w router, these are a good router for the Leigh as they have good bit changing through the base of the router, it's 1/2" and it's light enough for easy use. It also had adjustable dovetails to accomodate different width timbers which the Gifkins had difficulty with.

[malb]

The Leigh Superjigs come in 3 lengths, 12, 18 and 24 inch. The 18 and 24 inch units can use different templates to achieve decorative dovetail style joints. The only template set for the 12 inch is the basic dovetail set. I wanted to get the D1600 unit at about the time that they were being cleared because it could use the fancy template sets, but due to stock issues ended up with the 12in SJ without being aware that the other templates would not be available.

The Leigh kits come with 8mm shank bits and a 1/2 in to 8mm reducer, so a 1/2in or 8mm router is the way to go. 8mm is rare in Oz, but some of the smaller Makita's, the Aldi Taurus, and some Festool routers are equiped for it. Alternative bits with 1/4 shanks are available, but the shanks are significantly less rigid and may be more likely to chatter.

[Ozziespur]

For the Gifkins and the Leigh, you need a 1/2" router. They need a longer/stronger bit than you can generally get from a 1/4" bit.

Spend the extra on the Super 12 Leigh, I have the use of one and they are great for though, blind and sliding dovetails. Get yourself a Triton JOF 1010w router, these are a good router for the Leigh as they have good bit changing through the base of the router, it's 1/2" and it's light enough for easy use. It also had adjustable dovetails to accomodate different width timbers which the Gifkins had difficulty with.

Carbatec stock the Triton JOF001 router but it's AUD279.00 which is the bet part of my spending money ! I'd have to get the router and then get a jig at a (much) later date ....

Any cheaper router options ?

[ian]

Hey guys,

I have some cash from a birthday to buy some woodworking gear. I'm interested in getting a dovetail jig and making some boxes and the like with some nice looking dovetails.

My problem is perhaps my router. My wife bought me an ozito router last year and it's been good (see pic). I've used it for mainly rounding edges and dado's, never dovetails.
http://mccallum.assets2.blockshome.com/assets/ozito/ozito-clean-pics/2P70082CaEFgO60/ROUTER-PRR-1200.jpeg (http://mccallum.assets2.blockshome.com/assets/ozito/product-pics/3KOzn8Nv8Hf4BjV/1200-watt-router.jpg)

It's only 1200w and has a 1/4" collet. Will this be a problem working with a leigh jig ? Maybe a cheaper (taiwanese) jig is more my go given my experience ?
Please excuse my ignorance as I'm new to woodworking and am perhaps wanting to run before I can walk ....

Any advice from more experienced folk appreciated.don't go the route of the cheaper (chinese) jigs.

I'm fairly certain that the Gifkins jig Gifkins Dovetail Jig (http://www.gifkins.com.au/) (with a bit of ingenuity) can be used upside down like the Leigh R9 Plus jig Leigh Industries - Joining Tradition With Today (http://www.leighjigs.com/r9.php) .
Your router should work fine with the Gifkins (used upside down) or the Leigh R9

[Ozziespur]

don't go the route of the cheaper (chinese) jigs.

I'm fairly certain that the Gifkins jig Gifkins Dovetail Jig (http://www.gifkins.com.au/) (with a bit of ingenuity) can be used upside down like the Leigh R9 Plus jig Leigh Industries - Joining Tradition With Today (http://www.leighjigs.com/r9.php) .
Your router should work fine with the Gifkins (used upside down) or the Leigh R9


Hey Ian, thanks for the feedback. I've seen the Leigh R9 and it looks interesting if a bit fiddly with the beam set up. Although once set up I'm sure it would be good. Whilst I'm inexperienced now you don't think I'd be limited by the R9 pre-set spacings down the track ?

[ian]

The R9 is Leigh's version of a number similar DT jigs -- google "keller jig" for one example.

Personally I think the Gifkins is a more versitile jig -- plus there's a variable spacing option available. http://www.gifkins.com.au/VARIABLE%20SPACE%20UPGRADE.pdf

[groeneaj]

And you only need a 1/4" router. This will cover stock up to 13mm (which is ideal for box making). Also as Ian mentioned you can change the layout of the dovetails with the variable space upgrade.

Andy

[chook]

By all means get a dovetail jig. But for relaxation and satisfaction there is much to be said for learning how to make these sorts of joints by hand. Yes the skill involved takes some time and practice and you will certainly have quite a few fails along the way. But the advantages well outweigh the difficulties.
Cutting the joints by hand gives you unlimited freedom to design the joint any way you like.
The cost of the equipment required is very small and any tools you get can be used in lots of other applications
There is a satisfaction of craftsmanship that comes with a developing skill.
Lastly, the old hand tool skills have mostly disappeared from commercial construction. But they survive partly because they are kept alive by amateur craftsmen. There are few things more relaxing on a Sunday afternoon than to go out into the shed, put the footy on the radio and quietly and peacefully cut some timber.
If time, speed and repeatability are important then a jig is the way to go of course.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

And you only need a 1/4" router. This will cover stock up to 13mm (which is ideal for box making). Also as Ian mentioned you can change the layout of the dovetails with the variable space upgrade.

:yes:

To be fair, using a 1/4"er is less than ideal... but it will do the job. For now.

You just need to work more carefully, letting the router cut at it's own pace and not forcing the work into the bit. (Then again, this is true for any router whether it be a 1/2" or even a 1" shaft! The difference is that with a 1/4"er you're far more likely to have a serious brown pants moment from... "over-eagerness" than with the larger shafts. :; )

[SAISAY]

Carbatec stock the Triton JOF001 router but it's AUD279.00 which is the bet part of my spending money ! I'd have to get the router and then get a jig at a (much) later date ....

Any cheaper router options ?

Bunnies have started carrying the AEG Routers.
http://www.aegpowertools.com.au/products/images/large/RT1350E.png
RT1350E
http://www.tradecounterdirect.com/custom/images/products/hires/aeg-router.jpg

The MF14KE 1/2" one with both a plunge and a fixed base was $369.- and the RT1350E 1/2" plunge router was $199.-
Both have variable speeds.
I am quite happy with them although I only needed the motor part for my CNC machine.
Cheers
Wolffie

[Ozziespur]

Hmmm I could possibly stretch the budget and buy a new 1/2" router ($200.00 for an AEG ... thanks the heads up Wolffie :2tsup:) and still buy the Leigh R9 jig .....

Incidentally, assuming the above comes to fruition, is it feasable to set up the 2 routers and cut the pins with the more appropriate 1/2" dovetail bit and cut the tails with the 1/4" straight bit ?

I know the sensible thing to do is buy the 1/2" router and wait til I can afford a Gifkins jig or a Leigh superjig, but I have some projects that have been on the backburner for months .... :;

[SAISAY]

If you don't use the same router for both parts, you are going to run into trouble because the bits will be slightly different and the tails and pins will not mate.
The Leigh jig comes with Leigh bits anyway.
Cheers
Wolffie

[ClintO]

By all means get a dovetail jig. But for relaxation and satisfaction there is much to be said for learning how to make these sorts of joints by hand.

I am trying to figure out if you are a sadist or a masochist at this suggestion :D:D:D:;

[ian]

Incidentally, snip is it feasable to set up the 2 routers and cut the pins with the more appropriate 1/2" dovetail bit and cut the tails with the 1/4" straight bit ? most production users of dovetail jigs do precisely this

Dovetail cutter in one router
Straight cutter in another

JUST got to remember to pick up the right one -- this is where having routers from different makers and hence with different colours helps

[chook]

I am trying to figure out if you are a sadist or a masochist at this suggestion :D:D:D:;

Both probably.

I must be a bit mad I suppose because I had a dovetail jig years ago and I sold it!

My wife is learning to paint and sometimes she says just how hard it is. But that is part of what makes it worth doing. My most developed skill, the thing I do best (probably better than nearly everybody else) is to sit on my bum and do nothing. But I don't get as much satisfaction from it as I had hoped.

I am not a naturally talented or skilful person. There is a strong line of craftsmen in my family. My great grandfather and my uncle were cabinet makers. My father restored antique clocks for a living. But the manual dexterity gene skipped my generation and all I was left with was the desire. So I have had to struggle for every skill I have gained. But when, occasionally I do make progress in my hobby, the pleasure I get is very great because of it.

The other reason I like using hand tools is just because they are slow and quiet. Every day I work to somebody else's rules, deadlines and performance criteria. People pay big money for what we offer and much is at stake. But in my shed there are no deadlines and the only standard is my own. I have just about every machine known to mankind and I like them too. But sometimes it is nice just to slowly and quietly shape a bit of timber using nothing more than your own hands and the skills you are learning.

[Ozziespur]

My last question, I swear ! :D

Besides the extra templates you can purchase and the bigger stock that can be routed of course is there any difference between the Leigh 12" and the bigger 18" and 24" ??

[Gunnaduit]

Sorry can't answer your question.

But did you see that Leigh have a new type of dovetail jig, their R9

Leigh Industries - Joining Tradition With Today (http://www.leighjigs.com/r9.php)

A lot less cost involved and looks pretty interesting all round.

[RicB]

My wife bought me an ozito router last year
:2tsup:

[malb]

My last question, I swear ! :D

Besides the extra templates you can purchase and the bigger stock that can be routed of course is there any difference between the Leigh 12" and the bigger 18" and 24" ??

Not really, but the width is handy. Because you can lay out custom patterns, it is common to lay out for one corner at one end of the jig and the opposing corner at the other end of the jig. Then a 12in jig can cope with a 6in max side, while the larger ones can handle 9 or 12 inch. The alternative is to set out for one corner, cut all parts for that layout then rejig the unit for the opposing corner and cut all of those parts. The issue is that if you need to recut a part for the first corner, the original layout has been lost, so it's hard to get a perfect match with a rejigged layout.

I originally mentioned the other template sets because I got the impression that you were interested in getting away from run of the mill stuff, and the one disappointment that I found with the 12in SJ was that I locked myself out of the other patterns unless I start again with a new jig. Depends on what you want to work with.

[ian]

Hi Malb

I think Ozziespur is more interested in the K9 jig than the Super jig

[Ozziespur]

Hi Malb

I think Ozziespur is more interested in the K9 jig than the Super jig

I was interested in the R9, but after researching the jig I'm not sure I like the idea of having to replace the backing after every project (the backing to prevent tearout I;m referring to). Plus I've read quite a few (somewhat) negative reviews, I know each review is subjective ...

I need to think about it further and do some more research I think. Besides, the longer I wait the more money i can save ...

Really appreciate all the feedback I've received on here though :2tsup: Very informative.

[ian]

I was interested in the R9, but after researching the jig I'm not sure I like the idea of having to replace the backing after every project (the backing to prevent tearout I;m referring to). Plus I've read quite a few (somewhat) negative reviews, I know each review is subjective ...

I need to think about it further and do some more research I think. Besides, the longer I wait the more money i can save ...

Really appreciate all the feedback I've received on here though :2tsup: Very informative.I'm not going to comment on the reviews
However, as I mentioned above, the K9 is similar to the Keller and a number of other jigs. As I recall the backing board only needs changing if you change the cutter size and/or material thickness.
If you're making boxes or drawers, you'd mostly be using a consistent material and dovetail shape (i.e. the same cutter most times) -- on that basis I don't think the replacable backing board is an issue.

However, it's your call :)

[tdrumnut]

I'm with chook on this one

[Ozziespur]

* Update * Hi Guys, put my order in for a 24" Leigh Superjig yesterday taking advantage of a 10% discount currently on offer. The Brisbane store have zero in stock so it's on order. The person I spoke to was very blaise' when asked how long it would be and said it would be "at least a month" before i could expect it !!

I wait ages to accumulate the necessary funds & then I have to wait another month ? :doh:

Oh well from the research I have done it's a unit I will likely have for a very very long time so waiting a few weeks won't kill me.

[rustynail]

Dont waste the time waiting, have a bit of practice cutting them by hand. Never tried never mastered.
The good thing with hand cutting is you can adjust the pitch to suit the timber. Some timbers are far more fragile than others and pitch adjustment can often be the difference between chipped and clean joints.
Dovetail cutting isnt masochistic, its therapeutic.

[Ozziespur]

Dont waste the time waiting, have a bit of practice cutting them by hand. Never tried never mastered.
The good thing with hand cutting is you can adjust the pitch to suit the timber. Some timbers are far more fragile than others and pitch adjustment can often be the difference between chipped and clean joints.
Dovetail cutting isnt masochistic, its therapeutic.

I will do that. I made a storage box on wheels with leftover mdf for all my offcuts & until i filled it I didn't realize how much timber I had lying around. I'll use the time practising with the offcuts. :2tsup:

[Ozziespur]

ok i have my leigh jig arriving in a couple of weeks (or so Carbatec tell me). I've waited 6-7 weeks thus far :( and have been (as rustynail suggested) attempting handcut dovetails in the meantime with mixed success.

My question now is what router to buy that will be a good fit for the leigh jig. BGS has an AEG 1.8hp router but it doesn't appear on leigh's list for compatiable routers (not that it wouldn't work with an adapter ... maybe ?). This is AUD199.00. Anyone use this ?

There is also at Carbatec triton JOF001 not quite as powerful but should be compatible ? It's a more pricey than AEG at AUD279.00. Out of reach ($$wise) is the Triton TRA001 at AUD399.00

I guess if anyone has a different make/model router that they use on their leigh jig (with or without an adapter) can you please let me know as I'd like to save some money on my router if possible after taking the plunge on the leigh 24" jig !

Muchos gracias

[Superbunny]

ok i have my leigh jig arriving in a couple of weeks (or so Carbatec tell me). I've waited 6-7 weeks thus far :( and have been (as rustynail suggested) attempting handcut dovetails in the meantime with mixed success.

My question now is what router to buy that will be a good fit for the leigh jig. BGS has an AEG 1.8hp router but it doesn't appear on leigh's list for compatiable routers (not that it wouldn't work with an adapter ... maybe ?). This is AUD199.00. Anyone use this ?

There is also at Carbatec triton JOF001 not quite as powerful but should be compatible ? It's a more pricey than AEG at AUD279.00. Out of reach ($$wise) is the Triton TRA001 at AUD399.00

I guess if anyone has a different make/model router that they use on their leigh jig (with or without an adapter) can you please let me know as I'd like to save some money on my router if possible after taking the plunge on the leigh 24" jig !

Muchos gracias

I have the D4R Pro and I love it, the super jigs are much the same as the D4R. I went to ebay and got me an old Black and Decker router that takes the eBush as is. It was one in as new condition the old type made of aluminum about 40 years ago and it does perform very well. I have set this up as a dedecated router for my D4R. What ever you buy it does not need to be the most powerful router on earth, the bits cut without much effort and if you don't use it much maybe not one too expensive. The small Triton router would be fine to use. 2 cents worth.:D:D

SB

[ian]

ok i have my leigh jig arriving in a couple of weeks (or so Carbatec tell me). I've waited 6-7 weeks thus far :( and have been (as rustynail suggested) attempting handcut dovetails in the meantime with mixed success.

My question now is what router to buy that will be a good fit for the leigh jig.

snip

I guess if anyone has a different make/model router that they use on their leigh jig (with or without an adapter) can you please let me know as I'd like to save some money on my router if possible after taking the plunge on the leigh 24" jig !

Muchos graciasI suggest a router that takes an 8mm collet
If I remember correctly, many of the Leigh cutters come with 8mm shanks

[Ozziespur]

Thanks SB & Ian :2tsup:

My biggest fear is I buy a router with an 8mm collet and it doesn't fit the Leigh bush and I have to wait 2 months for Carbatec to order an adapter !!

SB what is the model of your Black & Decker router out of interest ?

If anybody else has a router that works with the Leigh guidbush (with or without an adapter) please let me know.

Mthks.

[Wizened of Oz]

Hello Ozziespur

Just to throw some more confusion into the argument, I have had absolutely no issues using 1/4" shank bits with a Leigh Jig cutting up to 16mm material, softwoods, admittedly.

[Superbunny]

Thanks SB & Ian :2tsup:

My biggest fear is I buy a router with an 8mm collet and it doesn't fit the Leigh bush and I have to wait 2 months for Carbatec to order an adapter !!

SB what is the model of your Black & Decker router out of interest ?

If anybody else has a router that works with the Leigh guidbush (with or without an adapter) please let me know.

Mthks.

It is a 1 HP 1250 which states in the hand book that no adapter required. It is a fixed base router and thats all you need as a dedcated router for the jig. I just did a serch on gumtree by typing in black and decker router and there is one available right now the same as mine.:D:D

SB

[ian]

Thanks SB & Ian :2tsup:

My biggest fear is I buy a router with an 8mm collet and it doesn't fit the Leigh bush and I have to wait 2 months for Carbatec to order an adapter !!

SB what is the model of your Black & Decker router out of interest ?

If anybody else has a router that works with the Leigh guidbush (with or without an adapter) please let me know.

Mthks.I'm sorry Ozzie, I should have been clearer
your jig comes with a set of 1/2in dovetail cutters and a 1/2mm to 8mm reducer (I think it's for the 5/16th straight bit).
for some 1/2in routers you can get an 8mm collet

[Ozziespur]

I'm sorry Ozzie, I should have been clearer
your jig comes with a set of 1/2in dovetail cutters and a 1/2mm to 8mm reducer (I think it's for the 5/16th straight bit).
for some 1/2in routers you can get an 8mm collet

Thanks Ian, after posting I read up on Leigh's site and saw this : Shank Size
Every Leigh dovetail jig is shipped with 8mm shank router bits. They are considerably stronger and stiffer than 1/4" shanks, allowing smoother cuts and faster feed rates with a greater margin of safety. Routers with 8mm or 1/2" collets are required to use 8mm shank bits. A Leigh 1/2" to 8mm collet reducer, supplied with all Leigh dovetail jigs, allows 8mm shank bits to be used in 1/2" collet routers.

Thanks !
:2tsup:

[GraemeCook]

Hello Ozziespur

Just to throw some more confusion into the argument, I have had absolutely no issues using 1/4" shank bits with a Leigh Jig cutting up to 16mm material, softwoods, admittedly.

:2tsup: http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/smilie%20signs/iagree.gif






It might be worth trying your old router on the new jig before you race out and buy a new one. Perhaps it is more than adequate.

Fair Winds

Graeme

[Ozziespur]

:2tsup: http://www.woodworkforums.com/images/smilies/smilie%20signs/iagree.gif






It might be worth trying your old router on the new jig before you race out and buy a new one. Perhaps it is more than adequate.

Fair Winds

Graeme


Old router has 1/4" collett. I can certainly try it out and will probably do so.