Carba-Tec .... Oh Dear!

[TORB]

In many cases, it is far less expensive to buy direct from the US. Goods (not even on special) are frequently half the price that are charged by Oz woodwork retailers. I know we don't have the economies of scale they have in the US, but something is seriously wrong.

Add poor customer service to the pricing disparity and its no wonder so many of us are buying from overseas more and more.

I am becoming increasingly more frustrated in my dealing with Carba-Tec. We are all aware of their legendary out of stock situations. You walk into the store with a list of products you want to purchase and walk out without a significant proportion of them. It's happened to me a number of times, although I must say, recently the out of stocks have not been as problematic.

I can't say the same about their computer systems. Calling their software badly designed, antiquated and disjointed is probably a compliment. And this rubbish is used to run their business. They have customer software information in multiple databases that don't talk to each other. This was a major problem in business 20 or 30 years ago, but in the last 15 years, most companies have got rid of the problem. Not Carba-Tec!

They are also terrible at communicating, especially Head Office. In my experience, getting a phone call returned takes far to long. Speaking of taking to long, they always have excuses about why things take too long. The classic example are:
We are having a sale and are very busy.
We are very busy.
We have staff away and are very busy.
The guy you need to speak to is away.

Also, I am yet to hear an apology from a staff member for either something taking too long or something going wrong. Their attitude seems to be "you are lucky to have the privilege of shopping with Carba-Tec."

When you place an order on line, or by phone, log into your account try and look at the progress of the order. To make matters worse, their system doesn't generate updated emails to the customer stating progress, something most other sells provide. Its a black hole.

Carbi-Tec, you are doing well for two main reasons.
1. Your shop floor staff are good.
2. You have a good product range.

One major reason you are short staffed is because your systems are so woeful and that buggers up productivity. So fix your systems and you are half way there.

Also, it may be a good idea to let the people on the phones in Brisvagas know that without those pesky customers, they wouldn't have a job. The excuses just don't cut it any more and a bit of empathy from staff will go a long way.

There is so much potential for increased business for places like Carba-Tec in Oz its not funny, but unless Carba-Tec get their act together, they will not only risk not getting the incremental business, they will go backwards.

[cookie48]

Well written.

[LGS]

So..you're not going to the Christmas party then?:)

[veloaficionado]

Yes - their head office to branch communication sucks the proverbial. They can't update their stock holdings and communicate them between branches at all. I bought their horizontal borer (eventually) and Bris couldn't tell me whether Syd still had the only one in stock in the country. Syd couldn't tell me either. And when I got it, it needed some major tweaking and greasing. After about 20 x 12mm mortises in PINE, i am starting to hear the occasional squeal from the motor bearings! AAAGH! I'm shopping with WWWH from now on.

[Da bunny lover]

For a business that has a loyal market so to speak they should look after them more, forget selling el-cheapo stuff trying to play games with bunnings and masters...stick to high quality stuff and look after "their" market, it seems they are trying to attract both markets..after all who else sells the high end stuff?....i get frustrated when i go there its like they are missing the mark.

[Ozziespur]

In many cases, it is far less expensive to buy direct from the US. Goods (not even on special) are frequently half the price that are charged by Oz woodwork retailers. I know we don't have the economies of scale they have in the US, but something is seriously wrong.

Add poor customer service to the pricing disparity and its no wonder so many of us are buying from overseas more and more.

I am becoming increasingly more frustrated in my dealing with Carba-Tec. We are all aware of their legendary out of stock situations. You walk into the store with a list of products you want to purchase and walk out without a significant proportion of them. It's happened to me a number of times, although I must say, recently the out of stocks have not been as problematic.

I can't say the same about their computer systems. Calling their software badly designed, antiquated and disjointed is probably a compliment. And this rubbish is used to run their business. They have customer software information in multiple databases that don't talk to each other. This was a major problem in business 20 or 30 years ago, but in the last 15 years, most companies have got rid of the problem. Not Carba-Tec!

They are also terrible at communicating, especially Head Office. In my experience, getting a phone call returned takes far to long. Speaking of taking to long, they always have excuses about why things take too long. The classic example are:
We are having a sale and are very busy.
We are very busy.
We have staff away and are very busy.
The guy you need to speak to is away.

Also, I am yet to hear an apology from a staff member for either something taking too long or something going wrong. Their attitude seems to be "you are lucky to have the privilege of shopping with Carba-Tec."

When you place an order on line, or by phone, log into your account try and look at the progress of the order. To make matters worse, their system doesn't generate updated emails to the customer stating progress, something most other sells provide. Its a black hole.

Carbi-Tec, you are doing well for two main reasons.
1. Your shop floor staff are good.
2. You have a good product range.

One major reason you are short staffed is because your systems are so woeful and that buggers up productivity. So fix your systems and you are half way there.

Also, it may be a good idea to let the people on the phones in Brisvagas know that without those pesky customers, they wouldn't have a job. The excuses just don't cut it any more and a bit of empathy from staff will go a long way.

There is so much potential for increased business for places like Carba-Tec in Oz its not funny, but unless Carba-Tec get their act together, they will not only risk not getting the incremental business, they will go backwards.

Well said mate. I couldn't agree more. :2tsup:

Any Carbatec employees on here ?

[_fly_]

I don't think I have seen veneer softener there since I got some veneer there to try and use. That was 18 months ago.
I get really annoyed when I go to their website and the prices are different in Brisbane to Melbourne (I clear my cookies and it always defaults back to brisbane).
They had the little groz block plane for 29 or 39 bucks or something. In melbourne it was NO, here its 79. Same company?
I ordered a tool roll, that only took 4 months to get here (think I was waiting for the calf to grow a bit bigger in india).
I tried to buy some wood and staff standing next to me said 2 pieces for 13 or 14 bucks. When I got to register the guy said 26, OK I'm thinking 2x13. No he wanted 26 each. When I told him the other guy said 13 or 14 he went and checked. Came back and said 20 each. I told him he could replace it (He's gone now).
And where is Lindsey in Melbourne, He was the only staff member I would buy from ( 1 other sometimes). The other 2 I don't like dealing with. I think they hate their jobs and it shows in their face and attitude.

[Old farmer]

I am sorry to disagree but my wife collected an order worth about $1 000 today and told me she was treated very courteously by the counter staff and the cove in the delivery dock went out of his way to load the car for her.

In the days leading up to this, Norah in email Enquiries in Brisbane was very courteous to me and ever-helpful, replying within minutes.

At the beginning of the month, Jason in Brisbane, also in Enquiries, helped me greatly by e-mail.

[Ekim]

Ric,


We all know this, although, to be fair, the staff at Carbatec Perth do make an effort most of the time.


I suggest that you send your well written comments to the CEO/Chairman of Carbatec HQ.


Regards,
Mike

[SAISAY]

In many cases, it is far less expensive to buy direct from the US. Goods (not even on special) are frequently half the price that are charged by Oz woodwork retailers. I know we don't have the economies of scale they have in the US, but something is seriously wrong.

We do, however, have the problem with 120 versus 240 volts.
Got caught once and that was once too often :((
Cheers
Wolffie

[_fly_]

I am sorry to disagree but my wife collected an order worth about $1 000 today and told me she was treated very courteously by the counter staff and the cove in the delivery dock went out of his way to load the car for her.

In the days leading up to this, Norah in email Enquiries in Brisbane was very courteous to me and ever-helpful, replying within minutes.

At the beginning of the month, Jason in Brisbane, also in Enquiries, helped me greatly by e-mail.
Thats great to hear. I'm glad someone is being treated nicely.

[Scott]

This is a problem because they have a country wide monopoly in what they do. I've had the same problem as you and nothing has changed. I swear the Melbourne store is going out of business for the last 4 years because their stock holdings are pee poor.

We need another player in the market to keep them honest. Be great if a Lee Valley or Rockler set up shop here in Australia, that'd force the big C to lift their game.

Great post.

[TORB]

We do, however, have the problem with 120 versus 240 volts.
Got caught once and that was once too often :((
Cheers
Wolffie

True, but that segment of the market is only a small percentage of the market that Carba-Tec services. The majority of their catalogue is filled with accessories and hand tools, not power tools as such.

[Superbunny]

I've had good and bad service from them in Brisbane, but mostly bad service. I often check overseas online prices first with post then decide if I will buy at Carba-Tec. I find myself buying online. I must say I had a bum electronic depth gauge from them and when I phoned they sent me a replacement no questions asked so they do some things right.:D:D

SB

[Whit68]

Great post, I totally agree!

I only ever shop there as an absolute last resort.


Regards
Anthony

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[wun4us]

And that is if they will answer the phone!

It seems from trying to get parts for powered machinery that if the product is not quite recent, the part/s are no longer available.

[snowyskiesau]

I recently had a couple of queries about the Triton router so I sent off email to Kinchrome and Carbatec.
I got an answer from Kinchrome the next day but it took 11 days to get an answer from Carbatec by which time, I'd already bought the router.

[chambezio]

I can relate to the comments offered. I have varying degrees of service from good to....Anyway my thoughts are that this is a serious complaint in terms of Carba-Tec continuing to service our market. They have had the reputation of sourcing and selling stuff which otherwise is near impossible to find else where. I for one would not like to see them disappear from the scene because I think we would be the real losers. As some one had suggested in an earlier thread the original thread should be brought to attention of the man in the driver's seat who may not be aware of the situation.
In the present climate of economics no business can afford "bad business" with their customers who are the ones who make them their money.
As I say it would be a sad day if this business were to disappear

[wun4us]

I can relate to the comments offered. I have varying degrees of service from good to....Anyway my thoughts are that this is a serious complaint in terms of Carba-Tec continuing to service our market. They have had the reputation of sourcing and selling stuff which otherwise is near impossible to find else where. I for one would not like to see them disappear from the scene because I think we would be the real losers. As some one had suggested in an earlier thread the original thread should be brought to attention of the man in the driver's seat who may not be aware of the situation.
In the present climate of economics no business can afford "bad business" with their customers who are the ones who make them their money.
As I say it would be a sad day if this business were to disappear



Ain't that the truth:C

[labrat]

Yes - their head office to branch communication sucks the proverbial. They can't update their stock holdings and communicate them between branches at all. I bought their horizontal borer (eventually) and Bris couldn't tell me whether Syd still had the only one in stock in the country. Syd couldn't tell me either. And when I got it, it needed some major tweaking and greasing. After about 20 x 12mm mortises in PINE, i am starting to hear the occasional squeal from the motor bearings! AAAGH! I'm shopping with WWWH from now on.
It is now June 2012 and at the recent wood show in Brisbane I decided to upgrade my old 200mm (actually 170mm now)Tormek with a T7 and the two kits , the wood turners and the hand tool sharpening kit that are available for it. When I asked about the drill bits that were on offer when buying the T7 , I was told "don't have any here and they are crap any way" by the sales rep from carba tec, no offer to send me some or give somthing else in lieu of the drills that was not "CRAP". That did annoy me after spending around $1300- $1400 with them.
Today I decided to buy the black silicon carbide stone for the T7 and a planner blade sharpener. The lady I spoke with made me initially believe I had been transsfered to a call centre in the Philippines. She spoke English with a very strong American accent & I had trouble understanding what was said. When I asked for a price on the" black silicon carbide stone SB-250 for use on a Tormek T7 wetstone grinder" she had no idea what I was asking and was not able to give me a price, she was also not able to put me onto the staff on the shop floor. She suggested I call back next week. From now on Carba-tec is only a last resort.
Fortunately my wife is off to the US on business in a couple of weeks and she will pick up the stone for me and it is only $198 delivered to her hotel. I'm waiting for a price on the planner blade sharpener I am also after. I would expect it would also a lot less than carba-tec. A much nicer gift than a fifteen year old bottle of single malt.
It is a shame that Carba-tec can't get their act together as I would prefer to buy locally but it is just too difficult, from now on I will be checking for other suppliers on the internet before dealing with carba-tec again. The up side is the big difference in price.
Previously Carbatec had the 10 x 4 inch DMT duo sharp stones listed at $230 each, then in subsiquent editions of their catalogue had them listed at $159 each. A suprising drop in price. While the price was at $230 I found a clearence warehouse that had some for sale and bought two duosharp stones from them. One was a fine/extra fine and the other a coarse/extra coarse stone, both the 10 x 4 inch size, and the seller threw in a plastic support base for free. The all up cost for both stones and the stand, landed in Australia was Au$140.00. Less than half of the present price and less than a third of the previous exploitive price.
There is somthing wrong with service from Australian companies when it is not only cheaper to buy overseas but is just easier and simpler and only takes a couple of days longer to arrive.

[Grandad-5]

I find a lot of the above posts quite sad.
I haven't been to the CT store for many, many years since I moved "Bush". In fact, they were in Richmond in those days. It was a joy to walk in there.
Knowledgeable staff, high quality products, good service.
I had cause to order some specialty glue from them recently. I ordered online and received an email that it had been put on backorder.
I was concerned this would seriously hold things up but within a week another email arrived to say my item had been posted. Perhaps I was lucky.
I agree with all that have said we would be the losers if CT went belly up.
This should definitely be brought to the attention of whoever is at the top of the food-chain there.
Jim

[TORB]

I have just sent the following email to Carba-Tec via their online contact page.

"IMPORTANT - Please pass this on to the chief executive.

Dear Sir or Madam,

I recently posted my thoughts about Carba-Tec on the Australia Woodwork Forums. No doubt you understand that these particular forums are the very heart of your target customer base.

There have been quite a few follow up posts by other Carba-Tec customers detailing their own experiences and thoughts. A few of the contributors felt that the thread should be brought to your attention, hence this email.

The thread can be found here. http://www.woodworkforums.com/f11/carba-tec-oh-dear-153491/

I would like to invite you to respond to the comments in this thread, either by registering yourself, or by emailing me and I will post your comments on your behalf.

Yours sincerely,
Ric Einstein"

Hopefully we will get a response as I, for one, would be very interested in both their reaction and their thoughts, as I am sure many other readers will be too.

[Scott]

I've tried this before Ric and their response is no response at all.

[jimbur]

Well put Ric, no abuse just a polite request.
Cheers,
Jim

[Pat]

Try adressing the email to Geoff Lowe

[olas]

Have to agree with you mate!
Am pretty new to woodworking and have had similar experiances with carba-tec, ended up getting my 2nd choice marking knife as it was taking forever (8 weeks) for my prefered choice.
Have recently bought 'Understanding Wood' online for $36. Carba-tec had it for $93.
Would normally prefer to buy from a local retailer but can't justify spending 3 times more for the same product.

[Tools4Me]

I think most of my experiences with Carba Tec have been covered in earlier posts. I only wanted to chime in to swell the ranks. :2tsup:

[Zedicus]

Last night I also sent a message to Carbatec via the online contact page pointing them to this thread. I wonder if anyone else has and it will be interesting to see if anything happens now that more than one person has done so.

[RicB]

I only buy machinery from CT as it is obviously to hard to get it online. Otherwise it is cheaper and faster to get it delivered from an online purchase.

What really urks me though is when you get a catalog for specials at CT they don't have any of the specials in stock.......:~

[wun4us]

I only buy machinery from CT as it is obviously to hard to get it online. Otherwise it is cheaper and faster to get it delivered from an online purchase.

What really urks me though is when you get a catalog for specials at CT they don't have any of the specials in stock.......:~


maybe when the cattledog was printed?:?

[andrewwong]

Apparently the reason why I got such poor service was that 99% of enquiries at the counter are people "who want help with their garage projects" and the fact I was asking about a large Dust Extraction unit required a reply from the polite guy at the counter of "are you sure you actually want to buy one ?".

I had to wait 20 minutes while he went to find someone who did know something.
I had to leave.
I didn't find out what I wanted to know.
I felt compelled to not shop there again.

There is some truth in 'you get what you pay for'.

[wun4us]

So what's the matter with "garage projects" CT?

One could be mistaken for thinking that those who undertake these projects would have no need for any of the items sold by CT; of course that is presuming that stock is available to a prospective purchaser.

[_fly_]

So what's the matter with "garage projects" CT?

One could be mistaken for thinking that those who undertake these projects would have no need for any of the items sold by CT; of course that is presuming that stock is available to a prospective purchaser.

I think what they mean is "our stuff is to expensive for garage people" You need a business to write of the prices we charge".

[andrewwong]

I guess they meant people who say I want to build "XYZ" and I know how to do "ABC" - Can you please tell me how to go from C to X while I buy a $3 part ?

I could imagine that some people go to Carbatec like Bunnings.. I discovered other places to get service, and other places to get good deals.

[johnredl]

I think most of my experiences with Carba Tec have been covered in earlier posts. I only wanted to chime in to swell the ranks. :2tsup:

Ditto. I've taken to calling them, getting exact price & having them put it behind the counter (not just on the shelf) before I make the drive.

[wun4us]

I guess they meant people who say I want to build "XYZ" and I know how to do "ABC" - Can you please tell me how to go from C to X while I buy a $3 part ?

I could imagine that some people go to Carbatec like Bunnings.. I discovered other places to get service, and other places to get good deals.

Certainly no "good deals" at either of the aforesaid mentioned establishments, Andrew!

[TORB]

Apparently the reason why I got such poor service was that 99% of enquiries at the counter are people "who want help with their garage projects"


Interesting Andrew. I don't doubt what you were told, but I have trouble with it as an excuse for poor service.

Product enquires are a normal part of doing business, and to be blunt about it, any retailer who thinks otherwise is a poor business person.

As far as (garage) project advice is concerned, if people are coming in and asking for it, any business that thinks this is a problem is run by inadequate management. Its an opportunity to sell something!

Any business should love it when people come and asked for advice because if the staff is well trained, it frequently leads to a sale. Not always as there will always be a percentage of enquiries that fall into the 'tyre kicker' category, but it is just a matter of quickly working out which is which. Well trained staff can do that, and it leads to increased sales and higher productivity. Training and looking after staff so they stick around pays big dividends. Any business manager/owner who says they can't do it or doesn't know how to achieve it, doesn't know how to run a good business that will survive in the long term.

They may be lucky and get away with it for an unquantified period of time, but as soon as the chips are down, their business will be in serious trouble. All sectors of industry are littered with the carcasses of business that have closed their doors because have ignored the points made above, and the critical importance of listening to, and looking after their customer base.

[FRB Design]

Have you ever heard of " you can't please 100% of the people 100% all of the time". Carbatec,have a very LARDGE,HAPPY customer base, they certainly do not deserve this Carbatec bashing thread.If anything threads like these only put a blight on these forums. This has turned into a small whinge fest that will achieve nothing. Business's love people who construct their complaints in constructive ways, this way is very poor form.




Frank.

[Sturdee]

Have you ever heard of " you can't please 100% of the people 100% all of the time". Carbatec,have a very LARDGE,HAPPY customer base, they certainly do not deserve this Carbatec bashing thread.If anything threads like these only put a blight on these forums. This has turned into a small whinge fest that will achieve nothing. Business's love people who construct their complaints in constructive ways, this way is very poor form.

Frank.

I agree.

I've learned to live with their limitations and ring beforehand prior to going there. The staff at Melbourne are always willing to help if they can and give unbiased advice.

We would be a lot worse of they are no longer there, just ask any one in Adelaide or Tasmania where they don't have a store.

And hoping that another one would come in its place if they fold is wishful thinking as the market is not really here for a specialised woodworking chain catering in the main for hobby woodworkers.

Peter.

[snowyskiesau]

Carba-Tec do have a store in Tasmania (Launceston). The only compliant I've had about shopping there (apart from the fact I live in Hobart) is that low stock levels. They are more than happy to get items in on request but id does stop you just dropping in for a brows and a bit of shopping. The only other store I've visited is the Sydney one and I found the staff helpful on that occasion. Mind you, I did know exactly what I wanted to get.

I see no problem with a thread like this if posters are passing on real experiences, Carba-Tec management should use it to identify areas where service/stock levels could be improved.

[Big Shed]

They also have one in Adelaide, on Magill Rd in the premises where MIK were before they went belly up.

[_fly_]

I'm not saying I want them to go away.
I just want them to have items when I want them or get them in a reasonable time.
I also don't want to be taken to the max on my money.
Why other places in melbourne can sell the same item for 18 and they want 25 also bamboozles me. Thats not just a little, thats a lot. And no its not one has it on special either.
Maybe we want them to have a price matching policy?

Upto 4 cents worth now.

[TORB]

Have you ever heard of " you can't please 100% of the people 100% all of the time". Carbatec,have a very LARDGE,HAPPY customer base, they certainly do not deserve this Carbatec bashing thread.If anything threads like these only put a blight on these forums. This has turned into a small whinge fest that will achieve nothing. Business's love people who construct their complaints in constructive ways, this way is very poor form.
Frank.

Yes, Frank, I have heard that you can't please 100% of the people 100% of time time. However that is no excuse for poor customer service.

If you are correct about all being rosy at Carba-Tec then the organisation has nothing to worry about and can happily ignore "the wingers" on this forum and keep doing exactly what they are doing.

As far as "constructing complaints in a constructive way," if passing on my experiences is considered "poor form" and having a whing, then so be it.




And hoping that another one would come in its place if they fold is wishful thinking as the market is not really here for a specialised woodworking chain catering in the main for hobby woodworkers.

In Answer to Sturdee's above comments many people here (and count me in that lot) sincerely hope that Carba-Tec is around for a long time and does well, but feel that the service level should be improved.

As far as the Australian market is concerned, Carba-Tec has multiple stores that cater for specialist hobby woodworkers, so it is a viable market. If any market in is big enough for one speciality operator, then its big enough for a competitor that thinks it can do better and knock the first one out of the ring.

The face of retailing is changing and is becoming increasingly competitive. That is an unarguable fact. What is also fact is that organisations that do not adapt, change, and improve in this environment will go out business or face a declining market share. Even iconic stores like David Jones are learning this lesson, and look at the latest financial results from Harvey Norman (and Gerry Harvey's comments.) The writing is on the wall for all retail businesses.

[RicB]

maybe when the cattledog was printed?:?mate, that is when the ink is still wet, I kid you not.

[Zedicus]

Whilst 100% of people can't be pleased 100% of the time, surely a company would aim to please 100% of the people at some point in time.

[graemet]

I note that most criticism is of Melbourne and Brisbane. I have been to the Sydney store twice in the last 6 weeks and found the staff there to be both knowledgeable and helpful.

[rustynail]

We have all been very quick to take the company to task, but no one has come up with the crux of the problem and a practicle fix.
Retail and for that matter wholesale are undergoing dramatic changes both in the local market and overseas. Some companies and their management are quick to see the need for change and adaptation, while others are much slower to respond. Why so? I think specialist, one-off type operations with little, if any, direct competition, are often found wanting when it comes to change or upgrade. Call it bad management or apathy if you will but the fact is, their business hasnt been built on the cut and thrust of main stream competition.
When one looks at a Carba tec type operation, one sees a close similarity to a fine furniture manufacturer - limited range of quality products. If he hasnt got one on display, he will happily make one for you. Why do we go there? Because quality is important to us. Otherwise its off to the rabbit shed. One of the problems I can see for Carba tec is the amount of time their sales staff would be spending fielding endless questions on "how to" from "cant do" but "would like to" customers. A solution to this would be having a wise old sage with nothing better to do than chew the fat and let the sales team be exactly that. Stocks can be better monitored, back orders dealt with punctually etc.
One of the most dramatic changes to marketing has been the internet. It has changed both selling and purchasing in a way few of us would have ever imagined only a few years back. This would have to be a contributing factor to Carba tec's difficulty in matching price and to some extent service.
Having been in the trade, one way or another, for a little over 40 years, I have seen several specialist woodworking equipment suppliers come and go and feel that it would be to no ones advantage should Carba tec follow suit. There is nothing wrong with presenting examples of less than perfect service or
regaling us with tales of lack-luster performance, provided these sprays are applied constructively, otherwise it is just a whinge fest.
I have shopped at the Sydney stores since the company first opened. Not on an exclusive basis but there are products they carry I happen to like. I usually know what I am after but, when I dont, I have found the staff to be helpful. Stock control seems to have been an issue at times but not to an extent where I have been directly effected, so I have never questioned why. All in all, my dealings with the company have been to my satisfaction. I hasten to add, most of my purchasing these days is on the net for the sheer ease of it.

[_fly_]

Its a comparison thing. We have over a dozen sponsors in the forums. Can anyone say they had issues with timberbits? Pops shed? or any of the others that sponsor here.
I think what people here are saying is that Carbies is not up to the service we are getting regularly from other suppliers.

[FenceFurniture]

One of the problems I can see for Carba tec is the amount of time their sales staff would be spending fielding endless questions on "how to" from "cant do" but "would like to" customers. A solution to this would be having a wise old sage with nothing better to do than chew the fat and let the sales team be exactly that.

They have a Sponsor's forum here that they could use for exactly that, and satisfy countless enquiries of the same nature with a few posts. The last entry in their forum was when it was created - 3 years ago IIRC. You'd have to think that at least 50% of their potential regular customer base would be members here.

EDIT: This (lack of forum use) is not what you would get from an internet savvy company. Fer cryin out loud - we're a captive audience being ignored!


One of the most dramatic changes to marketing has been the internet. It has changed both selling and purchasing in a way few of us would have ever imagined only a few years back. This would have to be a contributing factor to Carba tec's difficulty in matching price and to some extent service.

Agreed Rusty, with a caveat. Good service is good service, regardless of the medium it is applied (or not) through. Some companies understand it, some live and breathe it, others have XXX (but no doubt demand it in their private lives).

[jimbur]

One problem is the very nature of the business - specialist woodworking tools.
It's a matter of surprise and pleasure if/when we encounter enthusiasistic and knowledgeable help at places like Burnnings. We set the bar much higher for the speciality shops. Most of those in my experience take a pride in satisfying the customer and imparting a little knowledge along with the transaction.
Cheers,
Jim

[rustynail]

They have a Sponsor's forum here that they could use for exactly that, and satisfy countless enquiries of the same nature with a few posts. The last entry in their forum was when it was created - 3 years ago IIRC. You'd have to think that at least 50% of their potential regular customer base would be members here.

EDIT: This (lack of forum use) is not what you would get from an internet savvy company. Fer cryin out loud - we're a captive audience being ignored!



Agreed Rusty, with a caveat. Good service is good service, regardless of the medium it is applied (or not) through. Some companies understand it, some live and breathe it, others have XXX (but no doubt demand it in their private lives).

Hence my comment regarding the slow embracing of the internet by some companies. Of course we realise this is at their peril but with time, dissatisfied customers and falling sales, they too will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
Woodworking can be theraputic and at the same time frustrating. Particularly for the lesser skilled artisan. The unforseen sudden need for a certain tool or device and the inability to procure instantly from a supplier all add to the drama. What started out as a pleasant interlude with wood, has now become a life and death struggle. As much as it is important for retailers to adapt, so to should we. Not to the extent of becoming submisive but at least have the ability of stepping down off our high horse and trying to see things from our offenders point of view.

[wun4us]

Hence my comment regarding the slow embracing of the internet by some companies. Of course we realise this is at their peril but with time, dissatisfied customers and falling sales, they too will be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
Woodworking can be theraputic and at the same time frustrating. Particularly for the lesser skilled artisan. The unforseen sudden need for a certain tool or device and the inability to procure instantly from a supplier all add to the drama. What started out as a pleasant interlude with wood, has now become a life and death struggle. As much as it is important for retailers to adapt, so to should we. Not to the extent of becoming submisive but at least have the ability of stepping down off our high horse and trying to see things from our offenders point of view.


But what is the "offenders" point of view? Perhaps we would all be the wiser and maybe more tolerant if we knew what the real problem and CT's point of view is. As it stands as I see it, there is nothing being said to the contrary from CT to explain any of the problems that have been explained on this forum.
To know is to understand, to not know is to foment bad feelings. I don't believe that this is a track that any of us here want to go down. It does not bode well though that there has not been any reply from CT to the emails sent them as mentioned in earlier posts. As far as stock problems go, there is the age old problem of carrying sufficient to meet the needs of all comers. From the posts here, it would seem that the stock levels are at times low. Perhaps it is a problem with a franchised operation? The posts here don;t seem to reflect the same issues with the company operated Brisbane store.
A timely answer rom CT maybe would help to assuage the general unsettled feeling here.

my tuppence worth.

[FenceFurniture]

The Sydney franchise was recently brought back under the CT umbrella.

[AlexS]

As far as (garage) project advice is concerned, if people are coming in and asking for it, any business that thinks this is a problem is run by inadequate management. Its an opportunity to sell something!

Any business should love it when people come and asked for advice because if the staff is well trained, it frequently leads to a sale. Not always as there will always be a percentage of enquiries that fall into the 'tyre kicker' category, but it is just a matter of quickly working out which is which. Well trained staff can do that, and it leads to increased sales and higher productivity. Training and looking after staff so they stick around pays big dividends. Any business manager/owner who says they can't do it or doesn't know how to achieve it, doesn't know how to run a good business that will survive in the long term.
Quite so!
I was in a shop the other day browsing, realised that they may have sold something I could have used on a recent project (wish I'd thought of it then). Asked the attendant, told him I wasn't buying, just curious, he gave me chapter & verse on the product, how to use it etc. If I need it in future, I know where I'll go. At the same time, another attendant was helping a bloke buying stuff for his daughter's school project. She was extremely helpful, and in the process sold him much more than he would have bought, and would probably have had to come back for. Result: Happy customer, happy shop owner, and hopefully commission for attendant.
Of course, this means staff have to know their stuff.

[FenceFurniture]

Of course, this means staff have to know their stuff.

Indeed Alex. I had a remarkable experience last week when I thought I might get a specialty cheese from the local Fish shop. The young lady attending to me would have been about 20, but she had the nouse to leave me alone whilst I perused their various other offerings. When I settled in front of the cheeses, she went into "sell" mode, and her knowledge of these cheeses was fantastic. The result was spending more money than I had intended to, due to her excellent skills.

Employees like this are a very rare breed, and I thoroughly enjoy the experience when it happens. I've gotta say that a Fish shop was the last place I expected this!

[rustynail]

But what is the "offenders" point of view? Perhaps we would all be the wiser and maybe more tolerant if we knew what the real problem and CT's point of view is. As it stands as I see it, there is nothing being said to the contrary from CT to explain any of the problems that have been explained on this forum.
To know is to understand, to not know is to foment bad feelings. I don't believe that this is a track that any of us here want to go down. It does not bode well though that there has not been any reply from CT to the emails sent them as mentioned in earlier posts. As far as stock problems go, there is the age old problem of carrying sufficient to meet the needs of all comers. From the posts here, it would seem that the stock levels are at times low. Perhaps it is a problem with a franchised operation? The posts here don;t seem to reflect the same issues with the company operated Brisbane store.
A timely answer rom CT maybe would help to assuage the general unsettled feeling here.

my tuppence worth.
At this stage the "offender" may not have a point of view. Or may not feel inclined to air their dirty laundry on the forum. Often, companies receive "hate mail" from customers and take it upon themselves to act upon same, rather than going to print on the matter. How CT run their business is their business. Discussions on this should be reserved for the boardroom and sales meetings. At best, a note of appreciation and acknowledge could be forthcoming.
Changes in company structure are often painfull affairs. Both for the company and their customers. The art is keeping those affairs as pain free as possible. Into-franchise then out-of-franchise would be but one example of this. If the truth be known, the employees, at the moment, are probably not much happier than us.
Change takes time. Good management makes it take less time. It isn't CT alone having trouble coming to terms with a changing market place.
There are other ways of making a point than just bleating. There is crticism and constructive criticism. The key word here is constructive. After all, isnt that what we are supposed to be - constructive? Able to make something out of almost nothing? See the beauty within? Maybe we should be looking at incorporating our talents in this area to help us understand what difficulties may be befalling the likes of Carba Tec.

[TORB]

At this stage the "offender" may not have a point of view. Or may not feel inclined to air their dirty laundry on the forum.

Hi Rusty,

Agreed. How CT run their business is their business. Discussions on this should be reserved for the boardroom and sales meetings. At best, a note of appreciation and acknowledge could be forthcoming.


Agree with these points. How they run their business is their business, not ours but ignoring customers is suicidal for any business. With that in mind, and call me old fashioned if you want to, but when a customer politely corresponds with a business it is common courtesy to acknowledge that communication. To ignore it is plain rude.

All they have to do is to say thanks for the feedback; we appreciate it (even if they don't,) we have taken note of your concerns and are considering it.

By doing that, they have acknowledged the concern and committed to nothing, but most importantly, have not ignored the customer.

I have not received any acknowledgement of my communication to Carba-Tec last Sunday. Not good form! To me, that indicates they either don't care about their customers, or don't understand the basic fundamentals of customer service.



There are other ways of making a point than just bleating. There is crticism and constructive criticism. The key word here is constructive. After all, isnt that what we are supposed to be - constructive? Able to make something out of almost nothing? See the beauty within? Maybe we should be looking at incorporating our talents in this area to help us understand what difficulties may be befalling the likes of Carba Tec.

I agree with some of this, but not all of it.

As we have already agreed, it is not our job to tell Carba-Tec how run their business.

As customers, some people here have aired their/our concerns and reasons why we are dissatisfied as customers, which is perfectly reasonable. Customers keep a business alive. Without them, there is no business.

It is not up to the customer to be all warm, fuzzy (my words) and be understanding of the retailers difficulties. This is even more so when the retailer doesn't even have the courtesy to acknowledge customers communications.

Concerns have been brought to the attention of the management of Carba-Tec by the customers that help keep them in business. What they do now is up to them. If they choose to be rude to customers and/or ignore serious feedback from people who genuinely want to see them thrive and prosper, then frankly they deserve the inevitable result.

This thread is a glorious opportunity for Carba-Tec to get closer to their customers.

[Sturdee]

Agree with these points. How they run their business is their business, not ours but ignoring customers is suicidal for any business. With that in mind, and call me old fashioned if you want to, but when a customer politely corresponds with a business it is common courtesy to acknowledge that communication. To ignore it is plain rude.



Call me old fashioned too, but it's common courtesy to contact them direct first before getting into print. Something you only did after prompting in this thread.

But you seem to do this regularly as your post are peppered with whinging about service from various stores, mainly Carbatec.

You appear to be what I would call a serial whinger and a retailers nightmare, maybe that's why they are ignoring you. Learn to live and forgive if the service is not to your liking or don't shop there.

Vote with your wallet if you want to but your continual whinging does no one, including you, any good.


Peter.

[FRB Design]

Call me old fashioned too, but it's common courtesy to contact them direct first before getting into print. Something you only did after prompting in this thread.

But you seem to do this regularly as your post are peppered with whinging about service from various stores, mainly Carbatec.

You appear to be what I would call a serial whinger and a retailers nightmare, maybe that's why they are ignoring you. Learn to live and forgive if the service is not to your liking or don't shop there.

Vote with your wallet if you want to but your continual whinging does noone, including you, any good.




Peter.


Well put Peter.

[TORB]

But you seem to do this regularly as your post are peppered with whinging about service from various stores, mainly Carbatec.

You appear to be what I would call a serial whinger and a retailers nightmare, maybe that's why they are ignoring you. Learn to live and forgive if the service is not to your liking or don't shop there.


I don't understand why anyone should have to accept (and forgive) poor service. Put simply, I refuse to put up with second rate, poor service from any establishment. The reason that so many Australian retailer have such poor service levels is because many customers are prepared to let them get away with it.

As far as being ignored is concerned, as you can see from other contributions to this thread, its not just me that they are ignoring and I am not the only one dissatisfied. So I guess we must all be wingers. :roll:

[Sturdee]

I don't understand why anyone should have to accept (and forgive) poor service. Put simply, I refuse to put up with second rate, poor service from any establishment. The reason that so many Australian retailer have such poor service levels is because many customers are prepared to let them get away with it.



Whether you put up with what you call poor service or not is your business, but I don't think these forums where set up for you to continually whinge about your pet hates.

As I said vote with your wallet and only shop where you get perfect service on time and every time.

If you can find one let us know but meanwhile I'll shop at retailers that may not be perfect, make mistakes and try to correct them, for they are humans and have failings. But I have them also so I'm prepared to work with them rather than whinge.




Peter.

[rustynail]

Rick, ignoring all customers is suicidal, but ignoring some can sometimes be necessary. On the surface it may not seem to be good policy, but bleating has always got my back up. "Warm and fuzzy" does not come into my character profile. If I have a problem with someone I go straight to them (or send the Missus.) The idea of drumming up numbers on the forum is not my style. This is not to say you are wrong in contacting CT, quite the opposite. To expect an answer within a week or so is pushing it.
If your complaint was to be taken seriously by CT and they were to notice the ground swell being shared by others on this forum, I would think senior management would want to take the time to consider their response. Admittedly, an acknowledgement of receipt would be nice but hey, kick someone in the shins for long enough he is going to do one of two things; Smack you in the mouth or turn his back and walk away. Drumming support is shin kicking, forum before company contact is shin kicking, non constructive criticism is also shin kicking.
It is interesting to note, that on other occasions where you have used this tactic it has produced similar results. Maybe its time for a change of strategy. But I know, old habits die hard.

[Big Shed]

Thanks everyone, I think most of the things have been said at least once, time to close this thread.