Shoulda known

[Steamwhisperer]

I think it is generally accepted that if you buy a machine from H&F then first thing to do is pull it apart and clean it. Because of the great advice from this forum, (and a not nice noise beginning to emanate) I finally got a 'roundtoit'. The book says to change the oil after 3 months anyway. I took the top off the headstock and as usual found the obligatory casting sand:( and swarf:((.
After going back over the appropriate threads on how to clean it all out and what oil to buy I went shopping. I drained the oil and cleaned and flushed and removed the sealing compound from the headstock and cork gasket. I refilled the headstock with the new oil and away i went. Not nice noise has gone and I feel much better. Thanks guys. One thing, The oil level sight glass held the same amount of oil in it after I emptied the headstock:-. It now reads correctly:2tsup:
One other thing I noticed is the overspray on the gears under the oil fill plug. I guess they couldn't be bothered to cover the hole when they sprayed it. Pffft.

Phil

[steran50]

HI:),
Yeah I have been thinking that I should pull My finger out and getaroundto pulling My DM-45 Mill/Drill apart that I got of Standaco as I do know that the Oil got dirty quicker than it should have. You would think that the Chinamen would have come up with a bath to put the casting through to get rid of the Sand or perhaps they do already but just don't change the bath water often enough.

[Michael G]

If you go to the arc eurotrade web site (Engineering Tools | Lathe | Milling Machine | Model Engineering | arceurotrade.co.uk (http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk)) , it's interesting to see that they offer a preparation service for their machines. At least they are prepared to admit that the machines are coming out semi-finished. Will H&F ever do that?

Michael

[Dave J]

Hi Phil,
I am glad you got to it before it did any damage, it's unbelievable they would let these expensive machines out the door like that.
Even though the dollar is down the prices have sky rocketed up, but the quality stays the same? If they don't want to pay the Chinese guys to do it, whats wrong with hiring young guys here to flush head stocks etc as a pre delivery check over.
I was lucky to find a grain of sand in mine from Gasweld and it came strait out of the crate from china full of oil, so they must pay for this service or just a better quality supplier than what H&F is using.

I was having a close look at the inside of your gear box and was surprised to see all the ribs instead of solid cast.

Here are some pictures of mine I took about a month back when measuring the spindle outside diameter for Lather.
I know yours is the next size up, but you can see there are no ribs to save weight.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210644&stc=1&d=1338606812

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210645&stc=1&d=1338606812

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=210646&stc=1&d=1338606812

Dave

[Steamwhisperer]

It is astonishing knowing the amount of sand etc. in these machines that a service isn't available. Am real glad I did it now. The ribbing has two purposes from H&F. One is for strength, the other is as a shelf for the casting sand to sit on lol.

Phil

[Dave J]

I am not knocking your machine, so please don't think that. I am just amazed they are cutting cast iron that way, I wonder if this is a new thing they are doing on this model? It would be interesting for someone with an older 340 to put up pictures or have a look at there headstock casting to see if it was always done this way.

I noticed with the different manufactured mills I got that there where places where you could see one had cut corners to save cast iron, so it does happen.


Dave

[Steamwhisperer]

I am not knocking your machine, so please don't think that. I am just amazed they are cutting cast iron that way, I wonder if this is a new thing they are doing on this model? It would be interesting for someone with an older 340 to put up pictures or have a look at there headstock casting to see if it was always done this way.

I noticed with the different manufactured mills I got that there where places where you could see one had cut corners to save cast iron, so it does happen.


Dave

No worries Dave,
I don't mind taking a 'ribbing' now and again. Get it...'ribbing'....ahh come on fellas, this is champagne comedy. Gees, where did those crickets come from.

Phil

[Ueee]

No worries Dave,
I don't mind taking a 'ribbing' now and again. Get it...'ribbing'....ahh come on fellas, this is champagne comedy. Gees, where did those crickets come from.

Phil

Crickets??? all i heard was a baby crying......The boilers your used to working with would probably be chortling away by now though!

[Dave J]

No worries Dave,
I don't mind taking a 'ribbing' now and again. Get it...'ribbing'....ahh come on fellas, this is champagne comedy. Gees, where did those crickets come from.

Phil


LOL,:2tsup:

Dave

[simonl]

Hi all,

Some time back after taking possession of mt Dad's lathe I took the headstock apart too.I never intended to but after removing the top to look at the oil (to see what state it was in) I saw all the sand, metal and grit. So one thing lead to another. I ended up completely striping it until it was a bare cast iron box. After cleaning it with a heavy duty degreaser, some of the paint started coming off. So I totally striped it of paint inside and out, jet washed it and repainted the inside with POR15 machinery paint. The POR15 paint is a pain in the butt as it requires meticulas preparation for it to work but the results are great.

Glad I did. It's as clean as a whistle! :U

Oops. Last pic should be the first. Yes all the stuff in the bottom is sand and grit. Imagine this being passed through the "precision bearings" over and over again!

The pics taken where for my own benefit as I was not a member when I took them. I have pics at various stages of disassembly so that I knew how it all went back together.

Good work Phil. At least you know it's right now!

Simon

[simonl]

That was a knee slapper phil!:roflmao2:

[rusty steel]

Simon,
Are you sure that's sand? It looks like gold dust to me. Probably worth more than the lathe.:roflmao2:
Russell

[Bryan]

The ghost in the machine?

[artme]

Glad I read this!!!!:):)

When and if I get a machine guess what will happen first?

[4-6-4]

Greetings Chaps all this talk of gear boxes reminded me of my first lathe it was called a Shenwah. It was a belt driven beastie. One night I needed to engage a back gear screw. Do you think I could get it to go in. Finally I blew a fuse and dismantled it. All it needed was a champher on then hole and there was no more trouble after that but when I looked at the front pulley I discovered the cuttings from when the bronze bushes for the back gearn were still in the pulley. This meant that the bloke who machined it had carefully placed it in a crate for shipment to a bloke who was equally careful when he assembled the machine no to disturb the cuttings. No wonder we model engineers called the Taiwanese Terrors. I eventually started to covert it into a Pattern making lathe but discovered the underside of the head had been machined by an angry mouse and had been finished with an Angle grinder. You live and hopefully learn, Yours 4-6-4

[Ueee]

Greetings Chaps
I eventually started to covert it into a Pattern making lathe but discovered the underside of the head had been machined by an angry mouse and had been finished with an Angle grinder. You live and hopefully learn, Yours 4-6-4

:roflmao::rofl: LOL, i like that one! I think the same mouse got to parts of my mill. And here i was thinking the sand came from a trip to the coast!

[Steamwhisperer]

Was just wonderin'
should I do the quick change gearbox and the apron as well...actually thats a no-brainer really. At the very least they will get an oil change and I will be assured that the oil level is correct and not completely rely on the sight glass which has now become part of the 'total loss system' that has developed in the head stock:rolleyes:. No leaks anywhere...just the sight glass, at least it reads the correct level though.:D

Phil

[Ueee]

Was just wonderin'
should I do the quick change gearbox and the apron as well...actually thats a no-brainer really. At the very least they will get an oil change and I will be assured that the oil level is correct and not completely rely on the sight glass which has now become part of the 'total loss system' that has developed in the head stock:rolleyes:. No leaks anywhere...just the sight glass, at least it reads the correct level though.:D

Phil

Hi Phil,
If your in the QC gearbox could you take me a few pics and give me a rough idea of D.P and no of teeth? As i sit here with my man flu i have been pondering the problem of making a gearbox for my little lathe, and the biggest problem i have is what D.P gears i should use.

[lather]

Phil,
cleaned out the QCGB which had nowhere near the crap as in the headstock,
needed to replace bearings and guessed they just bang them in damaging the bearings.
once the bearings were replaced it wasn't a struggle turning the change gear by hand.
also pulled apart the apron and tailstock which contained grit as well.
It's made a big difference in the feel, compared to how it was new.

as for the headstock, the only way to make sure that all the sand is out is by completely stripping it, as there are many places it gets into that cant be cleaned out.
had cleaned the headstock before running it, which was useless, as there was sand in between the 2 brass bushes of the change gear shaft, the shaft caps, threaded holes e.t.c.

[lather]

Simon,
How soon can the headstock be filled with oil when using POR15 ?

[Dave J]

Hi Phil,
If your in the QC gearbox could you take me a few pics and give me a rough idea of D.P and no of teeth? As i sit here with my man flu i have been pondering the problem of making a gearbox for my little lathe, and the biggest problem i have is what D.P gears i should use.

I just come up from the shed, I will grab my manual from down there tomorrow and let you know, it lists all the gears in mine.

Dave

[simonl]

Simon,
How soon can the headstock be filled with oil when using POR15 ?

Hi,

To be totally honest, I can't remember. I'll find the instructions and let you know. Actually I just found it online. I think I waited about 24 hours even though it says 2 - 5 hours.

It's bloody good stuff. When it dries it's like glass. As you can see I got the black stuff. I was hoping to get the grey but when it turned up it was black. :doh:

Cheers

Simon
http://www.por15.com/Data%20Sheets/POR15ApplicationInfo.pdf

I used the starter kit. It comes with the marine clean, etch primer and just enough paint to give the headstock two coats.

[Metmachmad]

Are you blokes sure it is sand in these gearboxes?..... maybe it is course lapping compound.

[simonl]

I don't know enough about the manufacturing process to make comment on that.

All I know is that there was loose stuff in the bottom AND stuff (sand, grit) that had to be scraped and chiselled out before I was left with a clean cast iron box.

Simon

[Michael G]

Actually Simon, using the POR15 is probably a good move. At least you shouldn't have problems any more with barnacles growing in the headstock :U

When I first got my shaper (before strip down) I couldn't engage a couple of the gears. The seller was associated with a TAFE in QLD and it was a 1960's vintage machine that had been used so I was confused why this would be so. The answer came when I took it apart - there was a mud wasp's nest in there. Apparently the machine had been stored for a while and some mechanically minded wasps decided it was a good thing...

Michael

[Ueee]

I just come up from the shed, I will grab my manual from down there tomorrow and let you know, it lists all the gears in mine.

Dave

Thanks Dave,
I have reverse engineered the plaque off a 960b so i know what ratio's i need, but i really don't know how big to make the gears, i'm thinking 16 or 18 dp, but the gears get big quickly.

Sorry to hijack your thread Phil, i hope when i get a box made it won't somehow magically fill with sand......

[Ueee]

Actually Simon, using the POR15 is probably a good move. At least you shouldn't have problems any more with barnacles growing in the headstock :U

When I first got my shaper (before strip down) I couldn't engage a couple of the gears. The seller was associated with a TAFE in QLD and it was a 1960's vintage machine that had been used so I was confused why this would be so. The answer came when I took it apart - there was a mud wasp's nest in there. Apparently the machine had been stored for a while and some mechanically minded wasps decided it was a good thing...

Michael

Must be a shaper thing, i knocked a couple of old nests out of Freddie too!
Damn little buggers will build anywhere they think is a good place, when i lived down the coast they where everywhere, when we moved i even found a nest between 2 books in my bookshelf!

[Dave J]

Are you blokes sure it is sand in these gearboxes?..... maybe it is course lapping compound.


When I cleaned my mill up there was all black casting sand in it, and I don't think they lap anywhere on the mill.
I don't think the blast the castings, or at least not good enough if they do.

Dave

[Dave J]

Thanks Dave,
I have reverse engineered the plaque off a 960b so i know what ratio's i need, but i really don't know how big to make the gears, i'm thinking 16 or 18 dp, but the gears get big quickly.

Sorry to hijack your thread Phil, i hope when i get a box made it won't somehow magically fill with sand......


Here you go, sorry I forgot to rotate the picture before uploading it.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/members/16121-dave-j/albums/lathe/9112-picture-1615-large.jpg

Dave

[Ueee]

Here you go, sorry I forgot to rotate the picture before uploading it.



Dave

Thanks Dave,
They are a much bigger Module than i expected. I guess for manufacturing the less teeth to cut the cheaper it is.

[lather]

Simon,
purchased an aussie made paint system comparable to POR 15.

RustSeal by KBS Coatings - Stop Rust with our Paint / Sealer (http://www.kbs-coatings.com.au/kbs-rustseal)

finished prepping the headstock and waiting for it to completely dry.

should the bearing surfaces be cleaned before painting, as some flash rust is appearing, or is it better to paint first and clean the surfaces when dry ?

[Dave J]

I would clean them before and put a light coat of oil on them, that way if you do get a bit of paint on them it will just wipe off easily.

Dave

[matthew_g]

I checked
My al340 the day I got it home. I think I must have had the only free of sand and crud lathe they sold.

[shedhappens]

Jeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzus, I wasn't lookin' for another job !

My AL336 gearbag was a little noisy from new so I sucked some oil out and tipped in a bit of 80w90 gear oil in, it shut it up and made it sound sweet, hahaha I think won't look in there :U yet

[Steamwhisperer]

I checked
My al340 the day I got it home. I think I must have had the only free of sand and crud lathe they sold.

HI Matthew,
I think I know why. Mine is the AL340D which comes with the DRO. They sold this model with a bucket of sand thrown in. I just didn't realise they were going to actually 'throw it in':D
Gees, I'm on a roll here.

Phil

[Ueee]

HI Matthew,
I think I know why. Mine is the AL340D which comes with the DRO. They sold this model with a bucket of sand thrown in. I just didn't realise they were going to actually 'throw it in':D
Gees, I'm on a roll here.

Phil

LOL
Damn, where did all those crickets come from?

[lather]

matthew
What!!!,
"they forgot to include the standard optional extras"

[simonl]

I would clean them before and put a light coat of oil on them, that way if you do get a bit of paint on them it will just wipe off easily.

Dave

Yea. what he said!

It's amazing how things rust really quickly when the're clean! I cleaned my headstock back to bare metal and the next day I went out to the shed and it was coated in rust :)(

You definately don't want anything not even dust or a hair in the bearing seats of the spindle. The other bearing seats are not as critical even though I would avoid any paint on them too. A light coating of oil on them is the go. I know with the POR15, if you get some where you don't want it and it hardens, you need to chisel it off.

The stuff you got looks the goods!

Cheers,

Simon

[Steamwhisperer]

LOL
Damn, where did all those crickets come from?
:roflmao:I actually laughed out loud then Ewan. I sure am getting some strange looks from the missus.

Phil

[Stustoys]

I checked
My al340 the day I got it home. I think I must have had the only free of sand and crud lathe they sold.
See now thats shows how crap their quailty control is......... every now and then they make a good one :D

[Stustoys]

Jeeeezzzzzzzzzzzzzzus, I wasn't lookin' for another job !

My AL336 gearbag was a little noisy from new so I sucked some oil out and tipped in a bit of 80w90 gear oil in, it shut it up and made it sound sweet, hahaha I think won't look in there :U yet
Not that I think 80w90 will give you a problem, but remember the spindle bearings are splash lubricated.

Stuart

[lather]

All went smooth, heres a pic of the headstock.

[Stustoys]

Looks great Lather, I'm starting to wish I'd done mine.
I did change the oil early on, though once I saw the bottom of the bucket I wish I had done it earlier. Here is a picture of the oil that came out. I connected the drain port to a 20 litre plastic drum with a coolant pump and about 15 litres of kero in it. Then just hosed it out and this is what was left in the bottom of the drum.

Stuart

[simonl]

All went smooth, heres a pic of the headstock.

Thats's a great job. I love the colour. So easy to see any foreign material in there. A couple of magnets thrown in for good measure would top of a great job. I put one in the bottom and one on the lid, above the drain hole for the spindle bearing. Hopefully it catches any foreign material before it's flushed into the spindle bearings. Unlike most other peoples lathes, my headstock only has a drain hole for the front spindle bearing. I'm not sure if it's designed that way or if they forgot to do one for the rear. The rear bearing gets enough lubrication without it anyway.

Cheers

Simon

[shedhappens]

I wish I hadn't seen that Stuart, this sort of thing doesn't just happen with chinko machines, In 1982 I bought a new Harley, up until then I had only had pommie bikes, anyway I was giving it a flogging and when I changed from 2nd to 3rd the clutch lever pulled in with no pressure and there was a huge bang, the back wheel locked up and I skidded to a halt. On inspection the gearbox mainshaft nut had come loose and when I pulled the clutch lever in it pushed the mainshaft across and I got 2 gears at once, bang, it even busted the g/box casing. When I pulled it down the primary chain case had what looked like a 12mm deep layer of aluminium/grinding crappola in the bottom of it, the engine had similar but also had swarf, the swarf had nearly parted off the rotary crankcase breather valve.

Thanks for your horrible pic's, I'll have a sticky beak in there now :2tsup:

[Dave J]

I checked
My al340 the day I got it home. I think I must have had the only free of sand and crud lathe they sold.


Don't worry, I have an ice cream container here with about 2 1/2 -3 litres of casting sand and crud, you welcome to it so you feel they never forgot you.:D

Dave

[Dave J]

All went smooth, heres a pic of the headstock.


Really nice job, and like others have said it will be easy to see anything,:2tsup:
Mine still has a good coat of orangy, red colour, so I will leave it as is.

Dave

[Dave J]

Thats's a great job. I love the colour. So easy to see any foreign material in there. A couple of magnets thrown in for good measure would top of a great job. I put one in the bottom and one on the lid, above the drain hole for the spindle bearing. Hopefully it catches any foreign material before it's flushed into the spindle bearings. Unlike most other peoples lathes, my headstock only has a drain hole for the front spindle bearing. I'm not sure if it's designed that way or if they forgot to do one for the rear. The rear bearing gets enough lubrication without it anyway.

Cheers

Simon

Did you ask a question about the oil holes recently on the Yahoo 12 x 36 group? If not there was a guy recently asking about 1 oil hole.

Dave

[Michael G]

Just to be contrary here, realistically what is a magnet in the headstock going to acheive? Having one in a coolant tank yes - it will collect swarf and filings so that they are not recirculated through the pump or dumped back on the work.
However, in a headstock, are you really going to open it up every month and check it? If you do find metal on the magnet what will you do? Replace the bearings? Replace the gears? Clean off the magnet and then continue on? Either way something has worn but you don't know why and probably don't know what.
If you don't check the magnet, then the first sign of trouble will probably be a bearing noise in which case it's too late.

It seems an added device that while nice in theory is not really going to help in practice. I did think about it for my lathe but it takes around 1/2 an hour to open up, check and seal up again. (That's only the headstock box - there are 3 on the lathe and the largest requires an oil drain before the inspection plate can be removed) For a gear box that is low speed and changes only when stationary or turned by hand is there a return there?

My opinion
Michael

[Dave J]

I don't have any magnets in my machines, but I could see if large enough it could be checked at each oil change, and cleaned if necessary. It would stop the metal flakes getting carried around with the oil, and in this splash system it could be flung up onto the cover and into the spindle bearings.

Now we have all these discussions about oil and every one recommends hydraulic oil, which lets stuff sink instead of suspending it like motor oil does. So will the flakes just sit on the bottom anyway?

Either way I think a speaker magnet could be put into the bottom and checked every oil change, you would never get enough shavings to fill the magnet up.
As they say, better to be safe than sorry.

Dave

[Dave J]

Hi Michael
I am just wondering why it takes you so long to take the top off the headstock? I can have mine off in under 5 minutes (as quick as I can undo the 6 Allen head bolts and lift it off)

Mine come without any goo on the gasket and I just put the cover back one and do it up, never a leak yet and still with the factory gasket..

Dave

[Stustoys]

There will be metal in the oil.. things wear out. Having said that they wear out pretty damn slowly so the "pieces" of metal are going to be pretty damn small and on my lathe have lots of time to settle out. How much damage they could do to a tapered roller bearing I dont know, but I would think not much if they were small enough. Having said that I have a few magnets in my headstock..............:D But it only take 5 minutes to get the top off and on on my lathe.
Stuart

[simonl]

Just to be contrary here, realistically what is a magnet in the headstock going to acheive? Having one in a coolant tank yes - it will collect swarf and filings so that they are not recirculated through the pump or dumped back on the work.
However, in a headstock, are you really going to open it up every month and check it? If you do find metal on the magnet what will you do? Replace the bearings? Replace the gears? Clean off the magnet and then continue on? Either way something has worn but you don't know why and probably don't know what.
If you don't check the magnet, then the first sign of trouble will probably be a bearing noise in which case it's too late.

It seems an added device that while nice in theory is not really going to help in practice. I did think about it for my lathe but it takes around 1/2 an hour to open up, check and seal up again. (That's only the headstock box - there are 3 on the lathe and the largest requires an oil drain before the inspection plate can be removed) For a gear box that is low speed and changes only when stationary or turned by hand is there a return there?

My opinion
Michael

Hi Michael,

I'm certainly not going to argue with what you say. But, from my point of view, I invested considerable time and an amount of money in new bearings. Things are in a constant state of wear (as Stuart points out) and so very fine metal particles are constantly being generated. My aim with the magnet was to ensure as practical as possible that each particle will only pass through the bearing once (if at all) and not be splashed though and through and through. I have not intended for the magnet to be a tale tail to mechanical breakdown. I always remove the top cover when I replace the oil for a number of reasons, it only takes 1 minute to remove 6 screws, I can flush it out with some kero if I want, easy to pour new oil in to required level without making a mess and I can inspect my lovely paint job. Oh, and have a quick look at my magnetic phycological metal filter

Cheers,

Simon

[Dave J]

Like I said above I have not got a magnet in mine, but it's just something I have never got around to doing. I do think it's a good idea and lets face it, it surely cant hurt to have 1-2 in there. I have read about guys having them on the drain plug as well, which would make cleaning easy at oil change time.

Dave

[Oldneweng]

I have heard about vehicle sump plugs drilled out to fit a small magnet. Easy way to check with regular oil changes. Cannot see how it would hurt. Would need to be a situation where the oil and particles are going to pass over the plug. After it is removed the only metal the plug will attract is off the floor when you drop it. Sigh. I have been adding more big speaker magnets to underneath the coolant tray of my bandsaw. The total is now 5. Just experimental you realise.

Dean

[Dave J]

I have often toyed with the idea of a pump lubrication for the lathe headstock like some of the better brand lathes, running through a car filter so it would be cheap to replace. I have small gear pumps here, but seeing the lathe is around 8 year old now and still going strong, it probably doesn't need it and I might be a few years to late to be saving anything, LOL
Saying that it might be too late to add magnets to do any good, as the running in process it well and truly over.

Dave

[matthew_g]

Don't worry, I have an ice cream container here with about 2 1/2 -3 litres of casting sand and crud, you welcome to it so you feel they never forgot you.:D

Dave
Thanks Dave,
But just this one time I am going to be an individual and stand out of the crowd and keep my nice clean gear box all to myself:p

[Dave J]

LOL
See we members will even share casting sand.:D It was only last week when I seen it laying around and put in in the garbage, but I think it's still in the shed, I should take a picture of it.

You and I must have got lucky with our lathes.
Maybe you got a new guy trying to please the boss on his first day assembling your lathe.

I have not heard any bad complaints from people buying the Gasweld lathes, but the 12 x 36 lathe is the biggest they have sadly. I should contact a member here that bought one not so long back and see what he thought and if his had any.

Dave

[lather]

Stuart, looks like the crap that was originally painted over in my box, most of it sits in the corners and ledges waiting to drop off,
even though i cleaned the box before running it, the oil looked similar to yours after 30 minutes run time.

Simon
Plan to place magnets in the box, as well as placing small Neodymiums each side of the spindle bearing holes.
don't worry too much about the 1 oil hole, as mine had the special option of 1 and 1/100 oil holes.
lucky it was striped down, as the front bearing hole is literally blocked due to the inner lip of the front spindle oil seal "now that's improved chinese engineering"
checked the front oil hole before replacing the lid, it had taken about an hour for the small amount of oil from the gutter to drain out, "thought it was unusual"
filing a groove in the oil seal lip should sort it out.

The sand may work it's way out of the bearings, though the metal that found it's way into the front taper bearing remained in the bearing, causing an inconsistent jump of 0.04mm on the spindle.
once the bearings were removed the metal particles found on the bearings were flattened like foil, (unless foil in the headstock is the deluxe optional extra)

[Michael G]

The half hour I quoted was a WAG (Wild AR-5E Guess) but given the amount of stuff I have to move and things that have to be uncovered, it's probably not too far off the pace if I was going from a cold start to completely stowed away. I have gasket goo all over things too that will not help.
If it was a simple thing for me to do I might be furiously arguing for a magnet but I can say with some certainty that it's unlikely I'd ever check it when it was in. I have enough trouble remembering to check all of the 6 sight glasses (a couple are hidden) for oil level.

Michael

[Dave J]

The half hour I quoted was a WAG (Wild AR-5E Guess) but given the amount of stuff I have to move and things that have to be uncovered, it's probably not too far off the pace if I was going from a cold start to completely stowed away. I have gasket goo all over things too that will not help.
If it was a simple thing for me to do I might be furiously arguing for a magnet but I can say with some certainty that it's unlikely I'd ever check it when it was in. I have enough trouble remembering to check all of the 6 sight glasses (a couple are hidden) for oil level.

Michael

I made up a timber board for the top of my headstock with 4 small nails protruding underneath that locate in the socket head screws holding the cover on.
This way it doesn't slide anywhere and if I have to get into it I just lift the board with what ever is on it. It's only supposed to be for placings things for the currant job, but always seems to pile up with everything.:rolleyes:

The next time you have the cover off, try putting it back on with no goo, mine seals fine without any at all.

As for checking things like sight glasses, I am the same as I don't fuss over the lathe and it's oil levels. The last time I looked it was fine and that was a while back, and I have not seen any oil leaking, so why bother checking.

Dave

[lather]

Here's a few shots taken before cleaning the headstock when new.
was surprised to see metal on the large spindle gear, never noticed it before.
The amount of metal taken out with a magnet would have easily overfilled a coke bottle cap.

[Steamwhisperer]

I made up a timber board for the top of my headstock with 4 small nails protruding underneath that locate in the socket head screws holding the cover on.


Dave,
I might pinch that idea if that's ok with you. It's nothing short of brilliant.

Phil

[Stustoys]

even though i cleaned the box before running it, the oil looked similar to yours after 30 minutes run time.

It was suggested to me that it some sort of "molly" coating on the bearings (like the stuff you use on cam lobes when rebuilding an engine) that changes the oil color.......... not sure I buy that, but it sounds good.

Stuart

P.S I have one of those plastic desk/draw organiser things on my headstock.

[Dave J]

Dave,
I might pinch that idea if that's ok with you. It's nothing short of brilliant.

Phil

Thanks Phil,
No problem, it's good to get feed back on something you post up, so it's nice of you to reply.:2tsup:
I just used a bit of melamine board for easy cleaning, though I always have a old pillow case wrapped around it and poke the nails though it to hold it underneath. The pillow slip stops stuff sliding and soaks up oil etc.
With the nails I just cut a few down, then use another nail to start the hole, or you could drill it first, but with the chip board once you penetrate the outer the inner is soft.

The board goes full width of the top including the change gear cover, and I find I can leave it there when getting the cover off and on, so you end up with a wider top surface for gear because the top of the cover never gets used for storage as you need to remove it often.

Dave

[Steamwhisperer]

Thanks Dave, especially for the extra info. I had to give a talk on an aspect of lathe safety once and chose the practice of storing loose items on the headstock that can vibrate off into the chuck. Wish I had've thought of your idea back then. I might even put an edge around it.
Thanks again Dave

Phil

[Michael G]

A Board with nails in it? What would Bob think! :roll:

(Actually Dave, are you sure you didn't sneak into my shed and peek under the drop cloths?)
This is the version that I made up -

211035

and to locate in the SHCS,

211036

I can't remember where I pinched the idea from, but it's very handy for holding things that would otherwise be scratching the paint work (it sits up because there are oil filler plugs underneath).

Michael

[Dave J]

An edge would be better, I always have stuff falling down the back of the lathe, not when it's going but when I am reaching for something and have a mound built up there, It always has to fall down the back because thats the hardest place to reach for things, LOL
Just make sure you put something on the base like thin rubber to save stuff sliding around. I find the material works good as I can just shake it off and put it back on to give it a clean from swarf etc. I also find it soaks up the oil good.

Dave

[Dave J]

A Board with nails in it? What would Bob think! :roll:

(Actually Dave, are you sure you didn't sneak into my shed and peek under the drop cloths?)
This is the version that I made up -

211035

and to locate in the SHCS,

211036

I can't remember where I pinched the idea from, but it's very handy for holding things that would otherwise be scratching the paint work (it sits up because there are oil filler plugs underneath).

Michael


Mine is flat with a dish sort of thing in the centre. I am not real worried about the paint, but it hasn't marked it that I have noticed.

I like yours, and takes care of a rounded surface,:2tsup: Nice Job
If I had that on my lathe I would have double decker storage, and then would loose things under the top one because with mine being flat I would store things there as well.:doh:


Dave

[Dave J]

Hi Phil,
I was wondering if the H&F lathes come with a detailed manual like I got with mine. You can see some scans of pages in Ewan's thread that I posted up showing the gear sizes etc, do the H&F lathes come with manuals like this?
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/spur-gear-noise-d-p-153609/

Dave

[Steamwhisperer]

A Board with nails in it? What would Bob think! :roll:


Argh !! Michael Now you have brought Bob into the mix. Me and woodwork pffft. Now there's a combination. Perhaps my old man can make the wood bit. He is in his 80's and just won first prize for a drop deck semi with a JSB excavator on the back. He should be able to handle a plank. I can't. Especially if it is going to be up at Bobs standard.

Phil

[matthew_g]

What are nails?

[Jekyll and Hyde]

What are nails?

I think they're something used by those strange people who work in that horrible and odd metal that grows out of the ground with green sort of leafy things hanging off it....

[Dave J]

Half my shed is set up for wood, comes in handy for the metal side on many occasions.

Dave

[simonl]

A Board with nails in it? What would Bob think! :roll:

(Actually Dave, are you sure you didn't sneak into my shed and peek under the drop cloths?)
This is the version that I made up -

211035

and to locate in the SHCS,

211036

I can't remember where I pinched the idea from, but it's very handy for holding things that would otherwise be scratching the paint work (it sits up because there are oil filler plugs underneath).

Michael

Very neat! Come on admit it, it's really so that you can enjoy tea and scones while you work on the lathe? Or perhaps High Tea! :U

Simon

[Michael G]

I try not to eat or drink in the shed, but I think the original inspiration came from someone with a round top lathe who wanted somewhere to put a coffee cup. Considering the amount of fine swarf that ends up there, I suspect that it was coffee with added iron.

Michael

[Dave J]

My coffee cup or coke can sit behind me on the tool chest, to much swarf gets thrown up on the headstock as you say. The only problem is I forget about it and then go to have a sip and find the coffee has gone cold, but at least the coke is fine, LOL
I always have a drink in the shed because the tablets I am on dry my mouth out.

Dave

[Oldneweng]

211383

I have room for my dial Indicator and a few little bits, but that lever with the red knob is a clutch lever and it sweeps the area in front of it when operated. Two gear levers and an oil filler behind leave very little spare room.

I try not to have drinks on the lathe. Messes up the coolant. My coffee usually lives on the mostly unused cutoff saw just to the left, next to the metal storage area shown.

211385

I have two shelves on the wall behind but the top one is angled so I can see stuff, and my coffee cup falls off there.

Dean

[simonl]

211383

I have room for my dial Indicator and a few little bits, but that lever with the red knob is a clutch lever and it sweeps the area in front of it when operated. Two gear levers and an oil filler behind leave very little spare room.

I try not to have drinks on the lathe. Messes up the coolant. My coffee usually lives on the mostly unused cutoff saw just to the left, next to the metal storage area shown.

211385

I have two shelves on the wall behind but the top one is angled so I can see stuff, and my coffee cup falls off there.

Dean

I never tire of looking at pictures of other peoples sheds! :U

Simon

[Michael G]

Dean, I realise you are busy trying to work out your depth stop, but looking at that clutch lever, have you considered making an extension piece up (and putting a straight arm on) so that the lever doesn't sweep so low? Having a flat surface at the headstock is very useful for keys, rules, tools etc. After I made mine up it was one of those "I wish I'd done this earlier" things.

Michael

[Oldneweng]

Those are old pictures. That length of stainless steel 1 inch pipe which I nearly succeeded in cutting a BSP thread on has actually been moved now. (Trust me to start with an easy one.) There is also a lot more stuff on the floor now, but I did not say that. I feel the same way. I rarely have people into my shed as we are a bit isolated and I think some people get the impression I am a little strange.

Actually I reckon the locals think that I am only a recent import (12 years of farming life) from the town and that I could not possibly have any idea about mechanical things. I think only one neighbour knows I have a lathe but he is an exceptional person, not a long term local and too stuborn I think, to ask for help from me. He is about 68 years old and still farming alone.

One of the reasons I share stuff on this forum.

Dean

[Oldneweng]

Dean, I realise you are busy trying to work out your depth stop, but looking at that clutch lever, have you considered making an extension piece up (and putting a straight arm on) so that the lever doesn't sweep so low? Having a flat surface at the headstock is very useful for keys, rules, tools etc. After I made mine up it was one of those "I wish I'd done this earlier" things.

Michael

Hmm. I hadn't really thought about it to be honest but I will give it some thought. I actually tend to think that it is better to put that sort of stuff elsewhere rather than on top of the machine so I would guess that I would decide against the idea. That is one of the reasons for the two shelves at the back. I don't really know where that attitude came from to be honest but at some point I think I was taught not to do it.

About 30 years ago I worked for JP Engineering in Adelaide. While there I did a lot of time on centreless grinders. If you know anything about them they have a flat top surface above the control wheel (ours did) which invited junk. If that junk then fell into the machine then bang and the boss was not happy. This is probably why? We only kept a mic there occasionally.

What I need is a situation where I can store stuff on a shelf to the left of the lathe in easy reach. Just need a bigger shed, or build sheds faster that aquiring shed filling stuff.

Dean

[lather]

finally finished the headstock.
here's a few pics

[simonl]

That's a really nice job. It's a great colour, you can easily see if there is any foreign particles in there.

Simon

[Dave J]

That came up great.:2tsup::2tsup:

Dave