HM50 Can 'O' worms.....

[Ueee]

Hi,
Firstly, its all Stuarts fault......:D (joke) Without his saddle thread i probably wouldn't have even looked.

A coolant change and cleanout has lead to a clean......and dismantle.....and OMG what have i done????? Other than to clean all the Chinese muck out, the reason i dismantled the mill was to adjust the height of the X screw nut, split the X and Y nuts and make sure the lube grooves where up to scratch.

Unlike Simon's i my machine needed very little work to get the lube channels O.k Just minor things like opening up the channels so the feed hole actually fed them......
Like Simons there is no provision to get oil into the dovetails in either axis. The knee is not off (yet) but i expect it to be the same. Thats the easy bit....

While there i decided to blue the table and knee ways and spot the female (short) haves of the dovetails. The Y way scraping looks pretty good, no flaking though and a few VERY rough patches. The X is flaked but has some wear and all the scrapping looks to be done with an axe.....or maybe a big hammer......
The ground/milled surfaces of the table and knee show almost no signs of wear, so i am thinking that spotting off them should be o.k.

The table and Knee ways:

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0780Large.jpg

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0781Large.jpg

The spotting on the 2 ways....not good.....but it could be a lot worse

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0776Large.jpg

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0777Large.jpg

Finally i spent some time with a mic and measured the.....don't know what to call it....saddle? The number in the 4" range is from each way, i aimed to mic off the high spots. The other 2 numbers on each side are of the other machined surfaces to see if i could get an idea of which axis the error is on, but none of the surfaces seems to be in the same plane as the ways. The other thing is the .0003" error in the "saddle" could be there to compensate for a badly machined knee..... All i can think of is RC.'s plan, plan plan.......to be honest i almost just want to put it all back together and ignore it but i don't think i can.....:C

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0774Large.jpg

[Stustoys]

Hi Ewan,
And here I was thinking my thread would serve as a warning :D

"see if i could get an idea of which axis the error is on" What error? Is there something you are looking to fix?

I assume you dont have a surface plate?
You cant be sure the ground/milled surfaces of the table and knee are any flatter than the saddle. Trying to use them as a master could give you problems(says a guy that is doing just that, but I have tried to be sure they are "pretty" flat and will likely one day revisit them anyway, infact I am only scraping the saddle:bed ways to be sure I get consistant readings when squaring the cross-silde)


Stuart

[Ueee]

Hi Ewan,
And here I was thinking my thread would serve as a warning :D

"see if i could get an idea of which axis the error is on" What error? There something you are looking to fix?

Stuart

Hi Stuart
The Saddle is .0003" thicker on the LHS. whenever i have trammed the machine head for vertical with the quill, it is out when you use the Z axis (does that make sense?) In other words the table is not perpendicular to the Z ways.

I only have a carbatec granite plate, 300x250, so making a master to check the ground ways is a bit hard, so is measuring the saddle for parallel with a DTI. The .0003" error is off repeated measuring with a mic.

[Dave J]

Hi Ewan,
You will be amazed at the crap left in these mills. My first mill had the Y axis ways just milled like yours, and this was one of my complaints to H&F because they are advertised as precision ground slides?
It looks like that accordion cover has held swarf under it like you said and that has caused those scratches in the ways.

It still amazes me at the variety of castings these mills have. With your 4th picture, the first and second mill I had the surface was just flat, where the mill I have now they save the cast iron by hollowing it out like yours (my picture below). It doesn't have much affect on the strength, but it just goes to show the corners they cut to save money and this cant be seen until you pull it apart.
The same with your third picture where mine has ribs where your's doesn't.

So anyone reading this thread and thinking of buying one, there are many inconsistencies with these mills and you will never now what your going to get until you pull it down and look.

With splitting the nuts for backlash I cut through mine all but about 5-7mm as seen in the pictures below and then used 2x M4 grub screws in each corner. For adjusting them because the X is so far it, I just drilled the end of a piece of 10mm round bar and tack welded a cut off allen key in it for adjusting it. On the other end I welded a small piece across to make a T handle to turn it.

Dave

[Ueee]

Hi Dave,
Looking at your pics it just occurred to me that you have a 52 so you have a swivel table. My knee has both X and Y dovetails on the one piece of cast. Is that scraping original? It looks like a much better job than mine, almost like the person knew what they were doing.....having said that i think 2 different people scraped mine, one for the x and one for the y, the y is much "neater" than the x but still not mating very well.

Also, are your bronze nuts bolted on? my y one has a screw and washer from the top side of the casting but the x one was only pressed in place.

I got some 1.5mm rubber from clarks yesterday so the accordion cover is in the bin, where it belongs......:D

[Stustoys]

Hi Stuart
The Saddle is .0003" thicker on the LHS. whenever i have trammed the machine head for vertical with the quill, it is out when you use the Z axis (does that make sense?) In other words the table is not perpendicular to the Z ways.

I only have a carbatec granite plate, 300x250, so making a master to check the ground ways is a bit hard, so is measuring the saddle for parallel with a DTI. The .0003" error is off repeated measuring with a mic.
No not really ;) Yeah I see the 0.0003" error, but thats over want? 12". How did you pick that up with the Z?

Can you fit the saddle on the plate? (I guess not?)

Hi Dave,
You have the swivel table.

Stuart

[Dave J]

I haven't touched the scraping, but I have never had it on a surface plate either, LOL
My X nut is just pressed in as well and the Y is bolted in like yours. I was not happy with it but it is a press fit, and rather than mod it for the original nut I thought I would leave it until I fit the ball screw and double nuts and fix them properly.
In the picture below you can see the shim I needed to add to bring the Y nut down into alignment.
I would recommend taking the knee off just to check, in the pictures below you can see what I found in the oilers and holes.

The rubber will make a huge difference, I never have to clean under mine for swarf and only lift it up to oil it. 2 drilled and tapped holes in the collar on top of the column will allow you to mount a bit of 25x5mm flat bar to hang the rubber from and I used a bit of 10x3mm on top of the rubber and then sandwiched the rubber between them with pop rivets. I think from memory mine is around 75-100mm out either side and this also covers the DRO scale from anything.
It also makes the coolant flow strait down into the tray instead on on the knee. For the brackets to go onto the way wipers I used a bit of angle sheet metal around 1.2mm thick as I had a stack laying around.

Dave

[simonl]

Hi guys,

Can someone please explain or show me how you fit a wiper to the saddle when the gibb strip and the head of the adjustment bolt sit proud of the saddle by a good 1/2"? Do I have to wait for another 10 years of wear until the gibb slides in further? :roll:

Hi Ewan,

how did you measure the differences in the saddles height and spot the saddle? I have one of the carbatec surface plates too and it's too small to sit the saddle on let alone the DI and base!

Cheers,

Simon

[Dave J]

With you getting into scraping and being early days for the mill, I would just make the way wiper around it. Who knows in the future you might end up scraping it in and need that extra bit.
Saying that you could just scrap the gib for a better fit with whats there. Nick has a video showing the bluing of the gib and taping it in and then scraping it, this could be done with nothing else being done and would seat the gib in better.

Dave

[Dave J]

Just another thought, while it's apart put the gib into position and see what the maximum adjustment is. Anything over hanging after that is useless anyway and can be cut off.

Dave

[simonl]

Hi Dave,

thanks for the reply. I figured they were my options. I think I will cut around it at this stage as you don't have to take much off the gibb strip for it to require it's full insertion and I think I would be mad to cut off anything at this stage. I have made the front wiper plate today and have opted to work around not only the gibb strip but also the adjustment bolt as its' proud as well. It certainly won't be in the future!

Anyway, this is Ueee's thread so enough from me!

Cheers,

Simon

[Ueee]

Hi Ewan,

how did you measure the differences in the saddles height and spot the saddle? I have one of the carbatec surface plates too and it's too small to sit the saddle on let alone the DI and base!

Cheers,

Simon

Hi Simon,
The measurements were micrometer readings from each way. I also used a DI on each corner of the saddle x ways off the Knee Y ways.

I don't know if you have your Y screw off but if you do i hope you don't have my problems getting it back on "right". (see below)

I will also have the same problem with the back of the Y gib and a wiper, but being the back i can just cut the gib down a bit......

[simonl]

Hi Ewan,

I see. Not sure what problems you mean in relation to the Y screw? were you supposed to attach a pic?

I had a few other problems that I sorted shortly after I got the mill. Mostly the preload on the X thrust bearing was non existent allowing a few mm backlash. Also the Y nut in the leadscrew was mis-aligned and was binding when brought fully forward and closest to the thrust bearing. It turned out that the nut was not only sitting too high but the bearing mount housing the thrust bearing was also not parallel. I had to machine the Y leadscrew nut and then take a bit off the thrust bearing housing. Both leadscrew nuts are pretty crap. I'd love to replace them but I can't see myself cutting an internal ACME thread anytime soon!

Cheers,

Simon

[Ueee]

Hi,
After Stu's comment about a surface plate the first thing i did today was run my small plate over the ways to see how it compared to the spotting of the ways.

Lets just say my can is now a bucket.....The milled ways are clearly not very good, not in the same plane as each other and clearly i was very lucky to repeatedly get mic readings to 1/10 000".......There is no way i will be touching anything, the milled ways clearly need a lot of work.
With a straight edge across the saddle y ways the non gib side looks pretty good, certainly no space for a 1thou feeler. The gib side however leans up enough to get a 1.5 thou feeler in. After finding this i just didn't bother checking the X way, the spotting says it all.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/Ywayspotcomparison.jpg

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/Xwayspotcomparison.jpg

I then put the saddle back on.....easy right? firstly i cleaned and re-assembled the thrust bearings in the y screw. They were pretty sloppy so a little machining and some shim made them firm and the handle spun nicely. Here was me thinking, "hey i've just get rid of some of my backlash".....yeah right!
Then i put the screw in and tightened up the retaining screws. The handle is as tight as a fishes a#####e.......Turns out either the journal or seat (or probably both) are not machined perpendicular to the screws axis and the slop in the bearings allowed the journal to sit skewed.....To top it off the natural sitting point of the journal is way off the pin location.....

I should not be surprised, but i'm pretty of at the whole thing right now.....just the fact that to fix bad machining they have left slop in bearings goes right against everything i have ever been taught! So Simon......i hope yours is not like this!

To top it off i pinched a nerve between my shoulder blades and i just now i'm not going to sleep well tonight:((

[Ueee]

Hi Ewan,

I see. Not sure what problems you mean in relation to the Y screw? were you supposed to attach a pic?

Cheers,

Simon

Sorry Simon,
Got caught on Daddy duty.....wasn't supposed to be such a delay between posts. Sounds like yours is already sorted anyway.....

[MuellerNick]

You cant be sure the ground/milled surfaces of the table and knee are any flatter than the saddle.

Rest asured, they are not!
I got a mill to scrape in, and the owner told me, that the saddle (how's it called? X-way:Y-way connection piece) was already scraped in. Unfortunately, he used the saddle (the plane was ground) as a master to scrape the dovetail of the table. To "get flatness", he measured the thickness of the table to dovetail. But oh, the table's surface is warped by about 0.1 mm. So he copied that error into the table's dovetail.

I was .


Nick

[simonl]

Rest asured, they are not!
I got a mill to scrape in, and the owner told me, that the saddle (how's it called? X-way:Y-way connection piece) was already scraped in. Unfortunately, he used the saddle (the plane was ground) as a master to scrape the dovetail of the table. To "get flatness", he measured the thickness of the table to dovetail. But oh, the table's surface is warped by about 0.1 mm. So he copied that error into the table's dovetail.

I was .


Nick

So many pitfalls! This machine rebuilding game can really bite you on the #### if you only know half the picture and decide to "try" to fix things!

Simon

[simonl]

Ewan,

Trying to look after your kids and at the same time work out and fix a machine is near mission impossible! :doh:

In relation to your machine woes, I have everything you have, and probably more! Like I said earlier, The Y leadscrew thrust bearing housing was not aligned in height or parallelism! And, yes because (as most would know) when you take up the preload on the bearing it causes the whole thing to bind up so the solution is so so simple: Leave it loose! :~

Needless to say I had all sorts of apparatus set up trying to work out some sort of datum point for the leadscrew and work out where the nut should sit in relation to the saddle. Turning the leadscrew when the bearing has preload didn't help as it had a certain amount of "wobble" so I had to perform a version of RDM to work out the datum height as well as determine if the leadscrew was running diagonal in height front to back.

I think that by fixing that little problem all I have done is attempt to polish a ####!

Good luck with your leadscrew. It's probably the easiest of all the fixes you will need to do!

Simon

[Ueee]

I was determined to get the leadscrew and nut alignment right without removing the pre-load from the bearings. (yes i am stubborn) I bolted the journal back on with the nut out of the saddle and checked the height alignment.....the pic tells the story.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0785Large.jpg

No wonder it was binding! After machining 2mm off the nut (which was no mean feat to set up as the nut is still un-machined after casting on 5 sides and kind of a trapezoid shape) I then drilled the mounting bolt holes out to 3/8 and replaced the socket head screws with hex heads and washers. I'm at least half the alignment pin holes out but i won:hooray:. Nice and smooth and no change to the bearings pre-load.
The X nut also needed 1.5mm taken off it but it is yet to be tested.

Simon i think the difference is i'm not scared to hack at my machine cause its 8 years old but yours is only new.....p.s don't tell anyone but i used the angle grinder to fix the lube channels in the ways:o

[simonl]

I was determined to get the leadscrew and nut alignment right without removing the pre-load from the bearings. (yes i am stubborn) I bolted the journal back on with the nut out of the saddle and checked the height alignment.....the pic tells the story.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0785Large.jpg

No wonder it was binding! After machining 2mm off the nut (which was no mean feat to set up as the nut is still un-machined after casting on 5 sides and kind of a trapezoid shape) I then drilled the mounting bolt holes out to 3/8 and replaced the socket head screws with hex heads and washers. I'm at least half the alignment pin holes out but i won:hooray:. Nice and smooth and no change to the bearings pre-load.
The X nut also needed 1.5mm taken off it but it is yet to be tested.

Simon i think the difference is i'm not scared to hack at my machine cause its 8 years old but yours is only new.....p.s don't tell anyone but i used the angle grinder to fix the lube channels in the ways:o

Ha! yes but it's a bit like a new car, the first stratch always hurts the most. Im getting more game. I drilled and taped 5 M5 holes today to attach the front wiper. I'll do the same at the rear. I'm slowly turning it into swiss cheese!

I also had the same issue when I machined down the leadscrew nut. A completely rough casting with not a simple machined surface to use as a reference. I ended up screwing some all thread into the single bolt hole, then put the other end of the thread in the drill chuck on the TS. I then used it as some sort of reference to tighten it up on the 4 jaw. I then removed the all thread and went to town. It worked OK.

Cheers,

Simon

[Ueee]

I ended up screwing some all thread into the single bolt hole, then put the other end of the thread in the drill chuck on the TS. I then used it as some sort of reference to tighten it up on the 4 jaw. I then removed the all thread and went to town. It worked OK.

Cheers,

Simon

I had a mate round today who suggested the same. All was going peachy till i noticed the bolt hole was clearly not drilled straight.....:doh: Even the internal thread and the spigot are not in line with each other so i had to make sure it went in the right way round.

When i first looked at buying the mill the owner of the place i got it from showed me one they were using in there toolroom and said to me, "See, its a lot of mill for the price" (about 4K back then) now i know its a lot of cast iron roughly shaped like a mill. Like you i had new machine syndrome and i didn't even realize its problems for many years.

[Dave J]

I was the same with all my mods on the first machine back in 2006, then when I got the new replacement one I took it apart almost strait away after checking the travels etc where true enough.

With the nuts I cleaned them up on the outside and gave them a light polish, it was only because I wanted to and I thought it would make cleaning easier. I never had to machine any off my nuts as both mine needed a shim to pack it up more.

Dave

[Dave J]

When i first looked at buying the mill the owner of the place i got it from showed me one they were using in there toolroom and said to me, "See, its a lot of mill for the price" (about 4K back then) now i know its a lot of cast iron roughly shaped like a mill. Like you i had new machine syndrome and i didn't even realize its problems for many years.

I was originally going to but the same as Simon's mill, then looked at the HM50 with all the accessories which I would have to buy anyway and thought the HM50 would be a better buy. Then when I got down there I thought it's only an extra $600 for the HM52 so I stepped up to that.
I did look at the BM20 back them which was like a Bridgeport, but then I would have lost the horizontal and paid $2000 more, so I left it. If I had to do it again I would have paid the extra $2000 for the Bridgeport style as these HM series mills are not much really. More like a glorified drill press, but saying that they do mill fine and are a good combination machine, they just need some refining.

Dave

[simonl]

If I had the ability I would make 2 new ACME nuts out of a nicely machined piece of brass or bronze. The X nut is held quite well with two M8 cap heads but the Y is held with a single bolt. If I made another Y nut and made it long I could make it so that it sandwiches the X and use the same two bolts. You have to draw the line somewhere though otherwise you spend all your hobby time working on machines that where supposed to help with your hobby!

Hey Dave, Ewan, wood fast is looking at buying a mill: http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/buying-milling-machine-154865/
Perhaps you could pass on some words of wisdom........

Simon

[Dave J]

Thanks Simon, I answered earlier.
One thing the mill drills have better is the head head design because the quill is supported with more cast iron around it. They do make a HM series mills in China with a mill drill head instead along with a Bridgeport style head fitted to them.

Dave

[ELM6061]

G'day guys, struth you have scared the be-jevers out of me with your HM50/52 issues.

I also have a HM50 and originally planned to pull the whole thing apart for a check-re-build where needed and convert to cnc (cnc not happening now). I had to pull the head and table off to load/transport then get it into the garage, where I hoped to transfer it still in pieces to a rear shed. Problem was the rear shed roof was a tad lower than originally thought, so the mill has been put back together while I decide where to put it. I do think it is out, but for the little I do, it's not a concern. Backlash does annoy me though.

I note that you have said your machines are made in China. Mine is Taiwanese for memory, definitely not Chinese and have heard these are slightly better quality; Do you know anything like that? Also mine is the belt drive not gear head and am curious how to lube/check the spindle bearings?

Simon, I think it was you that also mentioned a video of someone scraping? I would love to see that, do you have a link by any chance?

Anyway, best of luck with your builds guys and will keep an eye on your progress.
Ed

[Dave J]

Hi Ed,
For the last 20 or so years all the HM50 and 52 mills from H&F are made in China, so not sure whats going on there.
My mill head is the same as yours and all the bearings are sealed for life, but I went though and replaced all mine with SKF bearings. A lot of people have trouble with the idler pulley bearings, so they will probably be the first that need replacing.

Dave

[Ueee]

He Ed,
Nick Mueller's scraping vids are the best to watch. He does make it look far too easy though! Kanal von MuellerNick - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/MuellerNick)
Like Dave I would be supprised if your machine was not made in China, this is what i have M160 | HM-50 Turret Milling Machine | machineryhouse.com.au (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M160)
There are all sorts of problems with them, Dave has some good write ups for fixes including fixing the spline knock you get when you lock the quill and replacing the top bearing.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/hm-52-quill-slot-121511/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/changing-top-quill-bearing-taper-one-hm52-126514/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/another-idea-bad-fitting-splines-mill-126490/

[simonl]

G'day guys, struth you have scared the be-jevers out of me with your HM50/52 issues.

I also have a HM50 and originally planned to pull the whole thing apart for a check-re-build where needed and convert to cnc (cnc not happening now). I had to pull the head and table off to load/transport then get it into the garage, where I hoped to transfer it still in pieces to a rear shed. Problem was the rear shed roof was a tad lower than originally thought, so the mill has been put back together while I decide where to put it. I do think it is out, but for the little I do, it's not a concern. Backlash does annoy me though.

I note that you have said your machines are made in China. Mine is Taiwanese for memory, definitely not Chinese and have heard these are slightly better quality; Do you know anything like that? Also mine is the belt drive not gear head and am curious how to lube/check the spindle bearings?

Simon, I think it was you that also mentioned a video of someone scraping? I would love to see that, do you have a link by any chance?

Anyway, best of luck with your builds guys and will keep an eye on your progress.
Ed

Hi Ed,

Sorry I didn't get back to you in time. Ewan beat me to it. Looks like I've caught this bug that the GW and billy lids had a week ago. I must be crook because I can't even be bothered with my project or reading the forum ATM. :C

Simon

[ELM6061]

Hi Ed,
For the last 20 or so years all the HM50 and 52 mills from H&F are made in China, so not sure whats going on there.
My mill head is the same as yours and all the bearings are sealed for life, but I went though and replaced all mine with SKF bearings. A lot of people have trouble with the idler pulley bearings, so they will probably be the first that need replacing.

Dave

Dave, being made in Taiwan is only what I was told so could be wrong. I bought mine at auction not H&F but it is probably from them originally. As for bearings in the quill, I do get a little noise from up in the spindle when it is running and the noise changes when I tighten the quill lock. Were the SKF bearings very expensive and how many are there?


He Ed,
Nick Mueller's scraping vids are the best to watch. He does make it look far too easy though! Kanal von MuellerNick - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/user/MuellerNick)
Like Dave I would be supprised if your machine was not made in China, this is what i have M160 | HM-50 Turret Milling Machine | machineryhouse.com.au (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/M160)
There are all sorts of problems with them, Dave has some good write ups for fixes including fixing the spline knock you get when you lock the quill and replacing the top bearing.

http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/hm-52-quill-slot-121511/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/changing-top-quill-bearing-taper-one-hm52-126514/
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/another-idea-bad-fitting-splines-mill-126490/


Ueee, thanks for all the links, will enjoy looking through them all and yes yours looks to be the same as mine. Seams the Taiwanese theory is blown out the water, "Made in China"!!! Apart from some damage to the table (was there when I bought it) and the small amount of noise in the quill, I am pretty happy with mine, but I am yet to try and do anything with .005 accuracy.


Hi Ed,

Sorry I didn't get back to you in time. Ewan beat me to it. Looks like I've caught this bug that the GW and billy lids had a week ago. I must be crook because I can't even be bothered with my project or reading the forum ATM. :C

Simon

Simon, no need to apologize, heck I only posted last night and as you noticed, plenty of other reply's with the info I was after.
Sorry to hear you are crook, young'ns love bringing all the new bugs and sniffles home, it's like bringing pictures home to hang on the fridge only more personal. Get well soon.

Ed

[Dave J]

Hi Ed,
They are not bad mills once you go through them and clean them up and do a few mods. Saying that they will still do the job the way they are, but will work better/smoother and more accurate with a good going through.
Taiwan was probably a good sales pitch as even the next step up in mills are now only Taiwanese heads and Chinese the rest. They used to be all Taiwanese years ago but our importers are cutting costs these days even with the dollar being up, anything for them to make a dollar.

With the quill bearings there are only 2, one tapered at the bottom and one deep groove at the top. If your going to replace them I would recommend doing the conversion I did and change the top quill bearing over to a taper one like in my thread Ewan posted above (and also below). You will need to make a new nut up, but I think the time taken to do that is worth while and so do a few other members that have done it as well.
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/changing-top-quill-bearing-taper-one-hm52-126514/

With your noise when doing up the lock a nylon or Delrin sleeve will fix that like I did in the link below (that Ewan also posted above). The problem is once you do up the quill it pushes it out of line making the splines to run on the side of the housing. It also fixes the noise on interrupted cuts from the loose fitting splines.
http://i702.photobucket.com/albums/ww21/1top720/HM52millnoise600x358.jpg
http://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/another-idea-bad-fitting-splines-mill-126490/




As for bearings and numbers here is a list I did up a while back for another member, just double check with yours to make sure, but they should be the same.

The manual can be found in the link below which is a grizzly one, and while there are some slight differences in things like the quill down feed, it's basically the same machine.
http://cdn0.grizzly.com/manuals/g3617_m.pdf

I have added the prices I got from my local SKF bearing place for you to compare with others.

Top quill bearing is a 6009-2RS deep groove (replaced with a taper 32009X/Q x1) = $16.52
Bottom quill bearing is a 32010-X/Q x1 = $16.73
Quill pulley 6009-2RS x 2 (x2) =$28.51
Idler pulley 6003-2Z/C3 x 2 (or if doing the horizontal as well x 4) (x 4) = $15.05

Down feed worm shaft 6002-2RSH x 2 = $8.21
Motor 6205-2RSH x 2 (or if doing the horizontal as well x 4) (x 4) = $20.59

These are not needed for yours but I will leave them up for others with a HM52.
Horizontal front 32011-X/Q x 1 = $25.55
Horizontal rear 30308-J2/Q x1 =$24.39
Horizontal 2nd idler 6005-2Z x 2 (x 2) = $9.11


Total is $147.93 which is not bad for every bearing in the machine.



For taking the quill apart I also wrote this up a while back


I am not sure if yours has it (my old mill didn't) but if you have a machined groove down the left hand side of the quill (extend it and have a look) to stop it rotating you need to remove the 2 screws holding the alignment pin on the left hand side.

Lock up the quill lock.

Place a block of wood on the table between the quill and table, wind the knee up until the block touches the quill to stop it dropping when it is released.

Undo the chrome cover on the left hand side of the head that covers the quill spring return. Under this there is a round cast iron piece that the spring sits in. Under the left hand side of the head their is a small screw or grub screw, undoing this will release the collar but be careful as it is tensioned to keep the quill up (wear a glove) it will want to spin round about 1 turn. The collar has a few holes around the outer edge were you can put a small screw driver or something to stop it for rotating, they are also helpful for tensioning it when you reassemble.

Undo the 3 bolts on the right hand side of the head that hold the quill handle/fine feed to the head and slide the whole lot out.

Remove the quill lock the wind the knee down to with draw the quill from the housing.Be careful as it has a bit of weight in it.

Once you have it out you will see on the top of the quill there is 1 or 2 nuts that have a metal tab under them that is bent up, just bend these down and undo the nuts.After that you need to press the quill out of its housing. I found that a soft face hammer worked and it came out without much trouble.
There is a plain bearing on top and a taper bearing like a car wheel bearing on the bottom.

I also went through the spindle pulley bearings at the front of the head as they were a bit rough sounding as well. They are not part of the spindle, the only connection is with the quill spline, that runs through the middle of it.

Dave

[simonl]

Thanks Ed,

Well I woke up this morning with a fever of 40.5 deg. Been feeling like I'm gunna die! The GW has been looking after me bless her soul!

Tomorrow's another day.......

Simon

[Dave J]

Thanks Ed,

Well I woke up this morning with a fever of 40.5 deg. Been feeling like I'm gunna die! The GW has been looking after me bless her soul!

Tomorrow's another day.......

Simon


I sorry to hear you and your family are crook. The flu went around up here a few weeks back and lasted about a week and then another week getting over it. The nieces kids have had a vomiting virus, but they can keep that one to themselves, LOL
Get well soon so we can see your updates on your mill,:D

Dave

[Steamwhisperer]

Thanks Ed,

Well I woke up this morning with a fever of 40.5 deg. Been feeling like I'm gunna die! The GW has been looking after me bless her soul!

Tomorrow's another day.......

Simon
Plenty of rest Simon and plenty of honey and lemon drinks.
Suddenly I sound like my mother.:D

[ELM6061]

G'day all

David, thanks for the heads up and prices, big help though the timing is a little out now. Darn cars and 120'000km service $868.00 bucks later thank you very much:~.

After Ueee gave me all those links, I started trolling through all the mods, info and video's (who needs sleep and youtube is a bottomless minefield). So after all that, I need to machine a grove, make a new nut and go buy some bearings. :doh: Thanks, that's all I need to keep me busy for a while. I was thinking to machine the grove (no horizontal), I may be able to do it on my lathe, something for me to chew on for a while.

Simon, we got a tropical fish tank here at home. You could come take a dip to lower your temp and I could unplug the heaters for a while to lower our carbon footprint. It's a win win :;

Ed

[Dave J]

Hi Ed,
The slot is not really a big deal, the main thing it's good for is when I fitted a glass scale to the quill I no longer needed my bracket to stop it rotating slightly as the glass wont allow much.

Dave

[simonl]

G'day all

David, thanks for the heads up and prices, big help though the timing is a little out now. Darn cars and 120'000km service $868.00 bucks later thank you very much:~.

After Ueee gave me all those links, I started trolling through all the mods, info and video's (who needs sleep and youtube is a bottomless minefield). So after all that, I need to machine a grove, make a new nut and go buy some bearings. :doh: Thanks, that's all I need to keep me busy for a while. I was thinking to machine the grove (no horizontal), I may be able to do it on my lathe, something for me to chew on for a while.

Simon, we got a tropical fish tank here at home. You could come take a dip to lower your temp and I could unplug the heaters for a while to lower our carbon footprint. It's a win win :;

Ed

Thanks Ed. I was actually waiting for phil to come and tuck me in!

Since mill is still apart I had to do some basic milling on my lathe. What a PITA that is. I can't believe I was going to purchase a milling attachment for the lathe inleu of a proper (well should I say a form of) mill.

Simon

[ELM6061]

Hi Ed,
The slot is not really a big deal, the main thing it's good for is when I fitted a glass scale to the quill I no longer needed my bracket to stop it rotating slightly as the glass wont allow much.

Dave
Dave; What the heck is a "glass scale to the quill"??? Is it a half empty, or half full glass of red and did you add a shelf to the quill to sit it on???

Simon; I have looked at how I could/would mill on the lathe and agree, it looks to be a bit of a pain. On the other hand, even if I have to buy some gear, I think it will still be cheaper than getting someone else to do it for me. Bonus is, I get to go shopping and get more gear (not that I can afford it or have any other use for it).

Ed

[Ueee]

Dave; What the heck is a "glass scale to the quill"??? Is it a half empty, or half full glass of red and did you add a shelf to the quill to sit it on???
Ed

I think Dave drink Coke in the shed......
He means a DRO scale, like this: Q659 | 70-659 Vertical Digital Scale | machineryhouse.com.au (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Q659)

[Big Shed]

I think Dave drink Coke in the shed......
He means a DRO scale, like this: Q659 | 70-659 Vertical Digital Scale | machineryhouse.com.au (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Q659)

A glass scale is a bit different to that one

D719 | GS30 Easson DRO Scales | machineryhouse.com.au (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/D719)

[Ueee]

Hi,
The table is back on now, damn there is actually some weight in the thing! I had no helper today to lift it with me and the place is too much of a mess for me to think about pulling the crane out.......what do they say about young and dumb???
I got the leadscrew back in, only to find it binding at one end still:((. The opposite end to where i measured the height of the nut from. To be expected i guess but the ends of the table were not pinned on at the same doh:. So now one end has no pins, it looks to be lower than it was by .5mm or so. With the nut split and all the muck cleaned out i know have very minimal backlash-.1 or so, much better than the .4 i had.

I also got the rubber on behind the table, it is still a bit long at this stage but i will live with it for a while and see how it goes. I ended up making it 440mm wide. This looks to be the widest i can go with any coolant running off it still being caught by the tray.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0799Large.jpg

[Dave J]

Dave; What the heck is a "glass scale to the quill"??? Is it a half empty, or half full glass of red and did you add a shelf to the quill to sit it on???

Simon; I have looked at how I could/would mill on the lathe and agree, it looks to be a bit of a pain. On the other hand, even if I have to buy some gear, I think it will still be cheaper than getting someone else to do it for me. Bonus is, I get to go shopping and get more gear (not that I can afford it or have any other use for it).

Ed

Sorry ED, I was meaning a digital readout glass scale like Fred posted. When I bought my DRO I bought 4 scales as one was for the quill.
With these glass scales they don't recommend much (if any) movement in any direction, so the quill slot helps to stop any rotation.
With the mill before this without a quill slot I had a 22x22mm square bar vertical off a collar on the quill with 2 rubbing blocks to stop any rotation.

Dave

[Dave J]

Nice job Ewan,:2tsup: you have done it pretty well identical to what I did mine.

Dave

[Dave J]

I think Dave drink Coke in the shed......
He means a DRO scale, like this: Q659 | 70-659 Vertical Digital Scale | machineryhouse.com.au (http://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Q659)


You got that right, coke or coffee, no grog in my shed.
When I used to drink I would always down tools when grog came out. If I had a beer I just found I don't want to work and sit back and enjoy it, a good thing I suppose.

Dave

[ELM6061]

You got that right, coke or coffee, no grog in my shed.
When I used to drink I would always down tools when grog came out. If I had a beer I just found I don't want to work and sit back and enjoy it, a good thing I suppose.

Dave
Smart thing downing tools, I actually had to give it up all together a few years ago, been one of the best things I have done in a long time. Darn site safer that is for sure.

Ed

[Ueee]

Nice job Ewan,:2tsup: you have done it pretty well identical to what I did mine.

Dave

Hi Dave,
I used the mill for the first time this arvo, and as i lifted the knee an immediate problem arose- the rubber gets caught and pinched between the knee and column. the gap in the middle is just the wrong size. Did you have this problem? I'm thinking a simple flat bar to cover the gap should fix it.

[Dave J]

Hi Ewan,
Even though my material is thinner I don't have any problems like that as my gap is only around a couple of mm, and I didn't think your rubber would fold over that much to get caught..
Your picture doesn't show the bottom of the rubber, but did you attach it to the back of the saddle like mine below? I thought I posted picture of my set up in the last week or so, but just had a look in this thread and cant see them, maybe I am imagining it, LOL

http://www.woodworkforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=214869&stc=1&d=1341613993

[Ueee]

Hi Dave,
I think you posted that pic in the "HM50 way cover" thread. That pretty much what i did, although i only have the rubber tucked under the wiper for now until i'm happy with the length of rubber i used.
My gap between the knee and column is more like 4 or 5mm, no wonder i've got issues and you don't! i think i can fix something to where the rear of the concertina cover was attached to the rise and fall wiper.

I finished the front wiper today, just need to cut the felt and put it in place with the front rubber cover. Although i didn't do a whole lot, the x and y feeds feel a lot better and without the backlash i had climb milling is much less scary. I cut the dovetail to 60 deg without checking it. Turns out it is closer to 55 deg :doh:

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0806Large.jpg

[Dave J]

Do you have a picture of where it's going down and getting caught. I thought with the rubber folding over it would be a large enough radius and not be able to get caught in a gap that small.

That wiper turned out good, does it over hang on the sides? With the knee wiper you only really need the outside ones as in my picture above. The inside ones do nothing at all, as that surface is not used for anything.

Talking about your knee, do you have a screw at the top and bottom of the knee gib? If not I copied Chich's idea on my first mill by making a bracket and adjusting screw for the bottom of it where there was none. If yours is like this let me know and I will post pictures of the mod.

Dave

[Ueee]

The gap in between the knee and column is huge compared to yours, see pic.

I have noted now that the china muck is cleaned out of the Z ways the gib floats in the backlash of the top screw. So no, i have no bottom screw and yes, some pics of the mod would be great.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0823Large.jpg

[Stustoys]

Hi Ewan,
That scraping where the rule is sitting. Does anything run on that?

Stuart

[Dave J]

Hi Ewan,
That scraping where the rule is sitting. Does anything run on that?

Stuart

Only the Y axis sheet metal cover for the screw, looks pretty though.

Dave

[Ueee]

Bought a piece of delrin today for the spline knock fix. Just as Dave's machine i had to machine out the bore of the sleeve first as it was way out of whack. Pretty straightforward otherwise except the male spline is not a consistent size, it has a fat end......only about a thou but enough to grab the delrin bush:(( I don't know if locktight works on delrin, i have a 1 thou interference fit on the bush but the spline still pushes the bush out if i drop the quill too far. Not sure what to do really:? I think i may machine it out some more and just see if i can get it loose enough but with no knock with the quill right up.

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0837Large.jpg

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0838Large.jpg

[Dave J]

Looks good,:2tsup:
Try oiling or greasing it first as the spline needs to be a firm fit in it to work. I would file or sand down the outside of the spline that bit to make it the same size, the bit you take off wont hurt anything.
You could mount the spindle in the lathe and use a bit of emery on it until it was all one size.

I found mine loosened up a little after being in there for a while, it still works fine but it's something to keep in mind as the spline will settle into it.

Dave

[MuellerNick]

Basically, you cant glue Delrin.
It works a bit if you flame the surface or etch it in phosphoric acid (I think to remember).
If you cut groves, it will grab the Delrin mechanically.


Nick

[eskimo]

If you cut groves, it will grab the Delrin mechanically.


Nick

there's always another way to skin a cat :2tsup:...great tip Nick