Veritas or Lie Nielson?

[section1]

I want to buy some hand planes it's either veritas or lie nielson which are better. Also should I choose the standard or low angle, not ever used one other than a block plane which is veritas I'm really unsure which to choose

[Tools4Me]

Veritas - direct from Canada Lee Valley Tools - Woodworking Tools, Woodworking Supplies, Woodworking Books for Woodworkers (http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/index.aspx)

No doubt the LN is good, possibly the best there is. But the Veritas stuff is faultless and more affordable.

[elanjacobs]

The Veritas vs LN discussion is a tricky one; people on both sides will swear that one is better than the other, but there are some key differences in the products.

Price. Veritas is generally (always?) cheaper
Style. LN is staying true to the older style of planes; essentially re-manufacturing the Stanley line with much higher quality and precision. Veritas has taken a different approach by adding extra innovations such as set screws to help keep the blade aligned and to regulate the mouth opening and using more "exotic" materials such as rust resistant cast iron and stainless steel.

Personally I prefer Veritas as I think they are better value for money, but the best way to decide is to go to Carba-Tec and try both to see what works best for you.

I also recommend the low-angle option where available as it provides extra flexibility - put in a low bevel blade for end grain or a high bevel for curly/reversing grain.

[Groggy]

The answer will depend on the timbers you expect to work and the plane types you would like.

[Claw Hama]

Hi have some of both, when I need a plane I look at the pros and cons of both brands and choose the one I think will do the best job. Generaly I love the feel of the LN over the LV but I realy love the LV Low Angle Smoother (Not the Bevel Up Smoother) I do like the LN Low angle Jack over the LV version but they are both very different planes. I keep the low angle blade in the LN and the 50deg blade in the LV otherwise I would sell it off. I realy like the LV spoke shaves over the LN as they have easy adustment. In short I think LN is worth every cent you pay for them. Mind you I also have a lot of other LV tools also

LV on the left, LN on the right.

[section1]

It's hard to try both at carba tec since they only stock veritas. LN is in Adelaide plus they are much more expensive than they are in the US. I know it all boils down to actually taking them for a test run but since that ain't an option I have it's going to be a difficult decision. Whatever I choose I plan on buying once I don't want to be disappointed which I'm sure I won't.

[NZStu]

Tsunesaburo (http://www.toolsfromjapan.com/store/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=339_514_515) :wink:

[GraemeCook]

I want to buy some hand planes it's either veritas or lie nielson which are better.


Which is better - Mercedes or BMW? And does it matter?

Fair Winds

Graeme

[section1]

There is a big difference between the two you mentioned, the thing is it's not an everyday item they're both expensive admittingly LN is more pricey than Veritas but still their not cheap so like anything and like anyone we do want the best of the best so which one will perform better or are they equal to each other. To get what I want will cost about $1000 with veritas and alot more if I took LN so is it worth spending that extra with LN over Veritas.

[Christos]

I have some LV but no LN. So I am a little bias in that respect. I will not offer one over the other as I have not played with both to really give an opinion.

I would suggest to at least try both before making a decision. The Brissy show was last month so not able to try there but who knows maybe a forum member near by?

It will be a big investment and could be only be a one time investment as you would expect this to last for several generations.

As you have asked this question I think you are keeping your options open.

[section1]

I truly understand how difficult this question is let's face it not many of us can afford the luxury of owning a set of LN planes but having said that knowing that veritas is best known for its innovative skills and also not diverting too much from the classic look sounds very inviting to me.

I've read some articles on blogs from overseas on veritas handsaws and they all gave very positive opinions but I haven't found anything as yet on LN stuff. I do own some LN products like a set of mortise chisels, scraper, sharpening stones, hammer and even an apron. Every one of them is just fantastic and their hammer that I waited over two months for because they make them on order is one of the best and well balanced I have ever owned. So I'm sure their hand planes is just as good but it all boils down to the price tag in the end and I'm sure that neither Veritas nor LN would let me down in respect to quality.

So since I don't have anymore time to wait I think I will jump into bed with Veritas. Two main reasons,
1. They're cheaper
2. They're innovative

As for the classic look well they've still retained much of it without too much compromise. I think as my business grows and real dollars start coming in I will purchase a 7 or 8 and even a 4 1/2 from LN and this way I'll have the best from worlds and if I see that LN planes are better well I can sell my veritas ones here on the forum.

I appreciate you guys spending the time to help me out but I think I just need to bite the bullet and take the plunge.

[Wongo]

LV is better value for money by a long way and many reviews actually rated LV better than LN.

[section1]

Do you have any links to where I can read these reviews

[Wongo]

I read many of them from woodworking magazines. Try google it.

[section1]

I did but nothing really informative

[John Saxton]

I want to buy some hand planes it's either veritas or lie nielson which are better. Also should I choose the standard or low angle, not ever used one other than a block plane which is veritas I'm really unsure which to choose

I have a fair amount of both LN & LV planes and do not necessarily think that I should influence you one way or the other as planes become a personal choice .There has been a lot written (within this forum) over time about the merits of both but your decisions will lie in what you want to do over all as well as what your budget allows.

As far as LN & LV are concerned they both make a good solid quality tool and I would suggest taking your time about making your decision.

LN here in Australia attend all the woodworking shows as well as the tool events they run if you can get along to one of these then the planes are readily available to try out .

With LV get along to Carba-Tec and ask to try out similar planes for your own comfort to use.

Cheers:)

[chook]

I have no idea which is better. But can tell you that if you get a Veritas low angle smoother you will be very glad you did.

[section1]

I've spoken to LN last night there next show will be two months from now and I have five orders to complete and deposits have been paid. So you can understand why I'm in a such a hurry. I'm off to Carba tec this morning to get their opinion I understand it may well be a biased opinion as veritas is all their selling, if they had both they would most probably say the best value for money would be veritas but the rolls royce is LN. So getting unbiased opinions from salesmen is rare and the best place are forums. The only problem with this are locating these threads.

[Wongo]

Mate, don't make it sound harder than it is. Both LV and LN make good quality tools. No one can argue with that. One is a bit more expensive (and more classy to some) and the other is just as good. It is that simple. You have 5 orders so money should not be an issue am I right? Just go to CT and pick whatever you are happy with. Nothing can go wrong. Trust us...

BTW, carbatec sells LN too. http://www.carbatec.com.au/lie-nielsen-handplanes_c6580

[Ironwood]

I remember reading some comparisons done by Derek Cohen, he is a member here. I think they are on his website or blog, a link may be on the bottom of one of his posts. When I read them, I thought they were good honest comparisons and opinions. Worth the read.

I have a bevel up jack from LV, am very happy with it. I dont have any LN planes so cant comment on them. But I think you couldnt go wrong with either brand.

[Groggy]

You simply cannot compare these planes unless you know what tasks they are intended for. For smoothers I'd recommend the LV but for jointers the LN. Scrubs would be another matter as would specialty planes.

In very general terms the LNs look better and have a flashier appearance, they also work very well. The LVs are well made to exacting tolerances, cheaper, and have some very unique features.

If I were buying planes for a business the LVs would generally be the better cost proposition.

[nick_b00]

There are many things to consider, like budget, aesthetics, ease of use, application to your style of woodworking, etc etc. What projects to you need them for? Which planes are you thinking of buying?

I agree with all above, and agree you will be happy with either at the end of the day. For me because both are close in performance (even a finely fettled, scraped Stanley with a replacement blade may be adequate!) it doesn't come down to which is "better", it comes down to your priorities.

For me, I like the classic styling of LN, and don't like the LV / Veritas styling. Price may be the top reason to choose one vs another. Being able to get a plane from Carbatec, or the TWW shows another.

Whatever you choose, I'd just add that it's a long term investment and you need to be happy with it whether others like it or not.

Happy hunting!

Nick

[Da bunny lover]

I love my LNs......the one you should be asking is your grandson...he will be using them until his late 70s:D

[section1]

Well your all correct so I went to CT and they were very helpful and truthful in their comparisons. A few of the veritas stuff like the scraper they said LN version is better. Anyway I bought a low angle jack and a bevel up smoother and a few other things as well. I had to run as I started to drool and I started think with my desires and not with my head. I am waiting for a router plane to come in and a plow plane as they sold out. Well that's it for a little while for me I did forget to mention I gripped the veritas dovetail saw and I fell in love with it. I think you have more control in your cuts with that saw than you do with the dozuki I got.

[Col]

I tried the LV Veritas planes but did not like the handles. The Lie Nielsen planes fit in my somewhat smaller hands far better. I have purchased a fair swag of them over the years mainly on ebay from the USA but have purchased a few new here in Australia. I purchased the Veritas large router as it was better than the Lie Nielsen and the Veritas spokeshaves. I have a few Lie Nielsen block planes but to be honest the original Stanleys I once had felt better in the hand than the Lie Nielsens. Get what feels right in your hands as there is nothing worse than tools that just don't feel right. You will waste good money and they will sit unused in the drawer. They will both produce great results as do the original older Stanley versions. It all depends on your skills as a user and your sharpening ability. Don't believe the Lie Nielsen 'can be used straight out of the box" because they need proper sharpening before you will get the best results.

Col.

[Wongo]

Don't believe the Lie Nielsen 'can be used straight out of the box" because they need proper sharpening before you will get the best results.Col.

I made that assumption once and how wrong was I. :doh: You would think $120 for a chisel should at least be sharp enough to cut wood, but no you need to sharpen it yourself. Maybe its something they can learn from pfeil. Their chisels are scary sharp out of the box. :roll:

[section1]

On the honing MKII jig there is no 38° mark so I have to use 40° can anyone tell me setting the bevel angle to 40° will it smooth just as well or should I go high as 50° I know this is for difficult grain but wood it smooth even better non difficult grain. The timber I'm smoothing is camphour and pine.

Also should I round edges on the blade on the jack plane as well or leave them staright.

[Wongo]

Another microwoodworker. Sorry mate. :D :D :D

I am sure 40 degree is fine.

[section1]

Please don't make feel ashamed to ask.

[Wongo]

If I did then I am sorry. (Seriously) :)

[section1]

It's all good mate

[section1]

An update on this topic is overdue after spending a good three days with these two planes I have to say they are wonderful. The bevel up smoothing plane I reckon is more like a 5 or 51/2 and is comfortable to my hand. It has the mass to push it through the work with ease. The low angle jack plane is gorgeous as well it flattens boards with ease, the A2 blade are thicker than the LN version they sharpen very nicely I've honed them to a very fine edge which slices the surface like butter.

I'm hooked I don't know if I will need any more planes but if I do I would like to try LN versions for a comparison. I also want to note the MKII jig doesn't have a 38° angle so therefore I had to put a 40° bevel which I was told is fine and truly I've had no issues with it as I planed with both angles and I can't see any difference between the two but I wanted to mention I did purchase a KING waterstone 300 grit from CT to help me achieve the new bevel quicker and I'm not impressed with it at all. It took me two days to regrind that bevel I eventually gave up and switched to my Norton 1000grit and within an hour or less I finished it. I also had trouble getting a decent looking camber but now after practising for a full three days on sharpening alone I perfected it and am able to get a really nice looking camber. So I'm ready to start my projects.

BTW I bought a set of LN bevel chisels and honed them beautifully. I really do have some beautiful tools now,

[Christos]

Thanks for the update. It would be good to see what projects you complete. :2tsup:

[section1]

I design and make clocks, I also change the design of some clocks made in the 19th century and add featue to it I think looks better. Anyway thats what I do.

I really want to learn how to make period furniture these clocks would really compliment it, I'm not much into modern style furniture for me there's no real character it's not something you can stand there and gaze at it's beauty and admire the skilled artisan craftsmanship involved in making it. The fact that the old skilled craftsmen used purely hand tools to achieve such high quality work without having access to any machinery is just pure skill. I'm currently working on my hand tool skills, I prefer using hand tools over machinery there is a certain charisma and connection you get with the piece your working on than I can ever get with machinery. Just creating a tenon with my japanese hand saw is much more rewarding and faster than setting up a jig on the table saw and just ripping it, or using a molding plane as oppsoed to the router even cutting dadoes by hand I personally think it's much more accurate than a router plus it's more quiet you ony get shavings and chips and no dust, masks, ear protections and saftey glasses to wear. Sure machinery in most cases will get the job done faster like ripping on your table saw but use your jointer and thickesser and you think you your boards flat well guess what you'll be reaching for that hand plane guess and that's what i've learned.

I still have a long way to go to get to the level I want to achieve and yes it will take thousounds of clocks and furniture and years of practice but it's an adventure of a lifetime and every projects you have ever made will linger around long after you are gone.

[Christos]

I agreed it does take time to develop hand skills, weather that's with wood working or just about anything.

This hobby for most including myself is all about the making. Get an idea in your head to make this and develop a path to achieve that. And above all have fun in the process.

[Christos]

I should add for some it is a living and sometimes can be a little hard to make a living. But I truly believe that something created by a person and not a machine is worth more to the next generation.

[section1]

Absolutely I totally agree with you, I do try and make a humble living from this work but it's more than that for me. The day I have to rely on a cnc machine to make carvings for me or a laser to do scroll work is the day I'll close shop then it's all about the money and not about working with wood.

I saw on YouTube a cnc machine shaping the back of an exotic looking chair for a company in Italy. They advertise fine furniture, they pride themselves on something thats machine made its like taking credit for someone elses work and passing it off as your own For me personally it's lost it's value.