Shaper Chip question

[Ueee]

Hi,
I made a start on a new front wiper for my mill today (i used the front on one the back of the knee) I wanted to use 40x5mm but only had some 50x6. No worries, Freddie will handle that in no time! I got a bit adventurous with the DOC and went to the 1/4" that caused the vice bump early one. She absolutely ate the steel and showed no signs of any problems.
The chips however, intrigue me greatly. They should be 12" long, a bit more than 1/4" wide and .020" thick. However they are much shorter than 12" (they are a bit stiff to flatten out easily and measure), the right width but .050" thick:oo:

I'm guessing the cutter is compressing the chip as it comes off making it shorter and fatter. Is this normal, or a problem with my cutters angles? These are the kind of chips that go "clunk", not "ping" when you drop them on the floor.....

http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0801Large.jpg

[jhovel]

PLEASE make a short video - I'd love to see these chips being made!
Joe

[pipeclay]

Normal.

[Steamwhisperer]

Gees Ewan, why don't you flatten them out and put them back on the rack as stock.:D:D:2tsup:

Phil

[Bryan]

Same here. I think the compression hypothesis is reasonable. I can't think of another one.

[Col2310]

Explained very simply here::U:U:U


http://me.emu.edu.tr/me364/ME364_cutting_mechanics.pdf

[Dave J]

Just like everyone else said it's normal. You will get some nice curls, but not long lengths.

Dave

[Bryan]

Explained very simply here::U:U:U

Very clear and useful document. Thanks Col.

PS: More good stuff here, especially section 5: http://me.emu.edu.tr/me364/lecnotes.html

[Ueee]

PLEASE make a short video - I'd love to see these chips being made!
Joe

O.k, it was soooooo hard to sacrifice a bit of steel just for the sake of using the shaper but..........heck what am i talking about? It was easy....:D

Keen eyed veiwers may notice the table dipping and then springing back up at the end of the cut. I really need to make the support bolts better, bigger washers etc as the support was pushed down by the force involved. Luckily the chips are heavy enough not to go too far. These things won't just ruin your shoes, they will ruin your feet too:o

24" Queen City shaper 1/4" deep cut - YouTube

I'm glad the compression of the chips is normal. I'm about to read the link Col supplied.

Mmmmmm chippies......
http://i1151.photobucket.com/albums/o622/ueee84/IMAG0805Large.jpg

[Ueee]

Explained very simply here::U:U:U


http://me.emu.edu.tr/me364/ME364_cutting_mechanics.pdf

Thank you Col.
That makes it so easy to understand and should be read by all!

[bwal74]

Nice vid once again Ewan.
Was the work piece hot when you picked it up?
Also, do you move your vice around for that cut? I mean do you rotate it 90 degrees so the cut was along the length of the piece?

Ben

Obviously you did move the vice, but can you cut the shorter face of the work piece?

[Ueee]

Nice vid once again Ewan.
Was the work piece hot when you picked it up?
Also, do you move your vice around for that cut? I mean do you rotate it 90 degrees so the cut was along the length of the piece?

Ben

Obviously you did move the vice, but can you cut the shorter face of the work piece?

Hi Ben,
The piece was not hot at all, the chips get pretty hot, as you can tell by the colour, but i think the vice is a big enough heat sink for the piece itself.
Yes my vice rotates, i have left it as shown for most of my cuts so far, not sure if this is "correct" technique or not, for instance the 11" square piece of plate i surfaced (the one the chips are sitting on in the pic) could have been done either way, but i did it with the vice as it is above.

[jhovel]

Thanks Ewan, very impressive!
Joe

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi Ben,
The piece was not hot at all, the chips get pretty hot, as you can tell by the colour, but i think the vice is a big enough heat sink for the piece itself.
Yes my vice rotates, i have left it as shown for most of my cuts so far, not sure if this is "correct" technique or not, for instance the 11" square piece of plate i surfaced (the one the chips are sitting on in the pic) could have been done either way, but i did it with the vice as it is above.

Serious bit of chip work Ewan. You are using the vice in the right orientation for a shaper. Please don't ask me whyas I will have to make something up:D.

Phil

[Bryan]

Because it's more efficient to cut along the axis of the workpiece. It's not spelled out like that in the TAFE book, but I believe that's the inference. Imagine cutting that same piece the other way, with a lot of very short strokes. It would take longer and be harder on the machine. If the part is squarish it doesn't matter.

PS: I guess you could put the part longways but the vice the other way. If you were adventurous.

[Steamwhisperer]

Because it's more efficient to cut along the axis of the workpiece. It's not spelled out like that in the TAFE book, but I believe that's the inference. Imagine cutting that same piece the other way, with a lot of very short strokes. It would take longer and be harder on the machine. If the part is squarish it doesn't matter.

Thanks Bryan,
I just learnt something:2tsup:

Phil

[Ueee]

Makes sense Bryan.
I guess for those with smaller machines cutting things the other way may be the only option with longer pieces. The strain on the whole drive train is huge when the ram changes direction, especially when returning due to the speed. It is really amazing with that big cut that the only signs of her being under load is some belt squeak and slightly raised gearbox whine. I bet the crank pin isn't thinking thats all though!

If you got adventurous you would want to to try it with thin bits just to add some more risk....

[MuellerNick]

Here's one making nice chips!
DOC 8 mm, feed 0.2 mm
NOT mine!

YouTube

But your chips are still nice and curly.


Nick

[Ueee]

Here's one making nice chips!
DOC 8 mm, feed 0.2 mm
NOT mine!


But your chips are still nice and curly.


Nick

Thanks Nick,
Thats a very interesting cut, using both the angled edge and shoulder. I know it was not meant as a challenge but how could i resist?:D
I know this is starting to border on showing off, but there is really nothing like turning good steel to shavings with her.
The table support once again moved, the table actually seems to be rocking diagonally, not flexing. The vid is much longer than i anticipated as due to the chatter i got from the lack of table support i went down a gear with good results. The bottom line is though that the 1/4" deep .020" cut is removing more material per stroke than this deeper but smaller feed cut.

Lastly, does anyone know of a good free video editor? I tried the windows one but it won't support the 3gp that my phone records in.

24" Queen City shaper .350" Deep Cut - YouTube

[MuellerNick]

I know it was not meant as a challenge but how could i resist?

Real sportsmen take every challenge. :2tsup:


Nick