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Scott
19th Jul 2012, 03:14 PM
Over the last few years I've enjoyed, no, loved every second on the lathe and recently I've taken my turning to a different level by investing in some serious sharpening equipment in the form of a Tormek thanks to a great deal from Carrolls (http://cws.au.com/).

Now my attention has turned to the type of tools I'm using and I'm interested in what you think is the 'Gold Standard' in turning tools (Gouges, skews etc). Not that I'm sick of my Sorby's, it's just that I think there maybe some better steel out there.

What do you think?

nz_carver
19th Jul 2012, 03:29 PM
well I use sorby and love them to bits
I have sorby,P&N,thompson, and the new vicmarc bowl gouge

but at then end out the day its what you like and what $ you have to spend
and how much you use them

I find the tools I use most I buy the best there is on the market as I use them all the time i,e bowl gouges as 95% of my turning is bowles

its one of them things ask one wood turner what he thinks is the best brand to buy it may not be the same as what the 2nd wood turner will say:;

Scott
19th Jul 2012, 03:42 PM
its one of them things ask one wood turner what he thinks is the best brand to buy it may not be the same as what the 2nd wood turner will say:;

Agreed however is there anything that makes your Sorby's, P&N, Thompson or Vicmarcs stand out from one another? Does one hold an edge better than the other?

nz_carver
19th Jul 2012, 04:27 PM
Vicmarc holds the edge better then any bowl gouge so far
I'm using Sorby bowl gouges as well and looking at a p&n in the next week

Saying that I myself like the p&n Skews more then anyone's
My parting tool is a sorby

Detail gouges are a Thomson Sorby and p&n
I like the Sorby and p&n = saying that thay have 2 different grinds

Scrap is a mc jings monster

I like crown as well but there hard to get

tea lady
19th Jul 2012, 05:13 PM
I think its more about the profiles and shapes of the gouges. Some round bar spindle gouges are a bit weird. Especially cheaper sets. I like "v" shaped thompson bowls gouges. But that is really just for a particular cut I do across the end grain of the solid stools we turn. Parabolic bowl gouges are better for bowls. :shrug: I like the "traditional" shaped spindle gouges cos I use them at work. Others seem not right now. :doh: Although where you get 1 inch round bar spindle gouges from I don't know. :rolleyes::U

Kidbee
19th Jul 2012, 06:25 PM
I am a big fan of my P & N tools especially the 25mm skew and the 32mm roughing gouge. I have turned a lot of old grey ironbark without any difficulty, which proves their suitability for hard Australian timbers.

Paul39
20th Jul 2012, 03:03 AM
Although where you get 1 inch round bar spindle gouges from I don't know. :rolleyes::U

Buy a 1 inch high speed steel drill blank from an engineers supply, make a handle and grind to suit.

sjt,

Not too long ago there was a thread here that went into great detail about the various turning tools.

There was also a long discussion about sharpening, Tormek VS everything else.

Do a search. Someone may find them and post.

I have one 5/8" Crown, one 5/8" Thompson, and one 1/2" Chinese Bodger bowl gouge. All HSS. The Crown and Thompson are about equal, Bodger not far behind.

I have bunches of Sears Craftsman high speed steel scrapers, skews, and spindle gouges. I have a few sets of cheap Chinese that do as well as the craftsman, but the tools and handles are smaller. Set of 8, barely used, marked HSS for $25 - I'll take a chance.

I do mostly bowls. The big tools in a big handle are what is most important to me. My favorite scraper for the final skimming of a bowl is an unhandled slab of 3/8 X 2 X 12 inch high speed steel that was a planer blade. I have a slightly smaller Bodger half round scraper that works fine. The Bodger scraper and 1/2" bowl gouge above were $35, barely used, for the pair.

For the harder more abrasive AU timbers, the powder metal tools will probably give you longer time before sharpening. For equal size tools in appropriate handles, the price is probably more indicative of quality than the brand name.

You will pay more for a "famous turner" brand. I don't think the premium for "famous turner" grind is worth the $. One can always buy the equivalent tool and put the grind on yourself, a little at a time as you resharpen.

Cliff Rogers
20th Jul 2012, 08:58 AM
I love both of my Henry Taylor 5/8" Superflute bowl gouges, I have 2. :2tsup:

tea lady
20th Jul 2012, 03:59 PM
Buy a 1 inch high speed steel drill blank from an engineers supply, make a handle and grind to suit.

:C was kind of a rhetorical question. I like the traditional spindle gouges for bigger widths. :cool:

chuck1
23rd Jul 2012, 11:37 PM
I have P&N spindle bowl and roughing gouge, henery Taylor skews and roughing gouge. But my favorite skew is Boliher S600 its 12mm by 12mm. And the cheapie no names I ground into parting tools

hughie
24th Jul 2012, 09:41 AM
The gold standard, hmmm, this is a very subjective value. There are those who swear by this and that make and model and yet when you have ago with them you dont find it the same. :?

One thing I do know is that the hardwoods we here will and do give, all wood turning tools a run for their money and most will come off second best. :C :o

For example, I have a 1/2" Thompson bowl gouge U shaped. I know something about the process and appreciate what it will do to the tool steel and that is the reason I have several Thompson gouges.

But just recently I turned a piece of Deadfinish that came from Cliff , it came from around Longreach. It gave the Thompson gouge a hard time, a real hard time. I made mulitple trips to the grinder, far more than I would have imagined. The vase was small less than 6" in height and about 3.5" in diameter.

Absolutely nothing wrong with the Thompson gouge :2tsup: or the grind, we just have some very hard timber and often with some silica thrown in for good measure. As was the case with this piece. In contrast to this I turned another piece of Deadfinish from different part of Queensland and my Thompson gouge performed superbly, a real joy to use. :2tsup:


My collection has Hamlet 2060's, P&N, Thompson, McJings, Sorby and a few DIY from Silver Steel. This is no reflection on other brands or makes, I just havent got around aquiring them yet :U

I find at the end of the day the best tool steel for the real hard Aussie timbers is Tungsten Carbide for roughing anything down and mass removal. Then to my favourite what ever it is to do the finishing. Some times with the absolute mongrel timber its sandpaper:U

NeilS
26th Jul 2012, 12:20 AM
The gold standard, hmmm, this is a very subjective value. There are those who swear by this and that make and model and yet when you have ago with them you dont find it the same. :?


+1

I attempt to carry out objective tests on edge cutting durability, etc., but in the end it comes down to working style and personal preference.

My current personal preferences are Thompson and D-way bowl gouges. The Thompsons are real work horses and the latter gives a very nice finishing cut.

Also quite fond of my Pro-PM Ellsworth sig bowl gouge for finishing cuts, but not so fond of the steel in another Crown Pro-PM gouge that I have.

Have used lots of P&Ns in the past and still have and use many of them. They are good value. Their large roughing gouge is bliss.

One of these days I'll splurge on a Glaser Hitec 15V Bowl Gouge. An indulgence as I doubt that I am ever going to wear out all of my current gouges, so why do I need another gouge that might have even more durability? Maybe it is the gold standard or maybe just another good gouge that is twice as expensive as its close rivals. I guess I won't know until I try one.

Looking forward to trying out a Vicmarc vanadium A11 steel with V gouge profile, if and when they bringing one out in that profile.

I'm also yet to try out a Henry Taylor Superflute bowl gouge. I have no doubt it would be as good as my other HTs.

Old Croc
26th Jul 2012, 02:30 PM
+1


One of these days I'll splurge on a Glaser Hitec 15V Bowl Gouge. An indulgence as I doubt that I am ever going to wear out all of my current gouges, so why do I need another gouge that might have even more durability? Maybe it is the gold standard or maybe just another good gouge that is twice as expensive as its close rivals. I guess I won't know until I try one.

Looking forward to trying out a Vicmarc vanadium A11 steel with V gouge profile, if and when they bringing one out in that profile.


Scott, Neil and all others,
I use a mix of all brands, and have an early model Glaser Hitec Bowl Gouge :2tsup: which is the best on abrasive timbers. Would love to try the Vicmarc vanadium A11 steel and the new Glasser "Crucible 305" now available on these timbers. The Glasser website is impressive, but as a weekend amateur, I cant justify the cost,
My $00.20 worth,
rgds,
Crocy.

NeilS
26th Jul 2012, 07:47 PM
Yeah, it will take a lot of $0.02 to buy one of those Cauldron 305 gouges!

I have read that they claim their new steel hardens to 68 Rockwell, compared to 'only' 62 Rockwell for their CPM 15V steel. That sounds like a big difference, however, I have found in practice that tools in use don't always reflect their theoretical advantage. For example, I find in practice I can hardly notice a difference between 10V and 15V CPM steel, which is surprising given Crucibles Steel's claimed comparative wear resistance (http://www.glaserhitec.com/shop/cpm-steels/) for these two steels.

I'm still waiting for someone whose opinions/experience I trust to report on their everyday use of the Cauldron 305 steel and any noticeable increase in durability. Rockwell 68 is way up there on the hardness scale but that could be at the expense of its toughness... it may be just too brittle, especially on our v. hard Australian woods. Maybe Glaser-Hitec would like to send me one for a test run on some buloke (Allocasuarina luehmannii with a Janka rating of 5060)...:rolleyes:

Scott
26th Jul 2012, 08:52 PM
Thank you for your input gents, my query was more about what you guys use and what works for you. Seems as though the Thompson's are used by many of you and worth some further investigation. I notice Thompson doesn't stock any oval skews. Anyone hazard a guess?

robo hippy
27th Jul 2012, 04:05 AM
I will agree with Tea Lady that the particular shape that works for you is the most important. Other than that, I prefer the powder metals as they can get just as sharp, and have much longer edge durability. The durability of the steel like the D Way tools gouges are made of is similar. I do prefer to buy blank shafts, and make my own wood handles, mostly because none of the commercial handles fit my big paws.

I talked to Doug Thompson about the V 15 steel. His comment was that it was considerably more brittle than the V 10, and considering the extra cost, maybe not worth it.

As far as him not making the oval skews, I would guess it is because the steel he uses is so hard to mill. I have asked about a few things that I would like to see done, like rounded edges on the scrapers, and he said that the V 10 really eats up the abrasives and milling bits. He does work from large blocks which he then mills to size.

robo hippy

artme
27th Jul 2012, 09:36 AM
An old chestnut, this question.

I started out wth Hamlet tools and find them exce3llent for most work.

I like my Henry Taylor Superflutes. They , in my opinion are a step above the Hamlets.


The Robert Sorby tools I have are larger Bowl gouges. I find that if not ground just so I can't get a good cut with them. They also seeem to dull more quickly.

P&N are as good as anything but normally they have some maching marks in the flute. These can lead to marking on the turned item.

NeilS
27th Jul 2012, 09:40 AM
I talked to Doug Thompson about the V 15 steel. His comment was that it was considerably more brittle than the V 10, and considering the extra cost, maybe not worth it.



That's the opinion I came to. Perhaps not such an issue with softer woods, but our harder woods quickly shatter a fine cutting edge if the steel is too brittle, especially if you are also turning some air.... thunk....thunk...thunk...thunk... :(

hughie
27th Jul 2012, 09:49 AM
[That's the opinion I came to. Perhaps not such an issue with softer woods, but our harder woods quickly shatter a fine cutting edge if the steel is too brittle, especially if you are also turning some air.... thunk....thunk...thunk...thunk... :(


Been there and done that. :U

Old Croc
27th Jul 2012, 02:14 PM
I notice Thompson doesn't stock any oval skews. Anyone hazard a guess?
Scott, I dont want to start an argument, but I have a Henry Taylor Oval Skew, and have never been any good at spindle turning. 2 years ago, gave me some lessons at the Prossie Turnout, :2tsup: using his standard flat Skew, I went out and bought a P&N (P@N) flat Skew, and have never looked back, actually look forward to picking it up and doing fine planing spindle cuts,
but thats my experience, others will probably say the Oval Skews work for them,
Crocy

artme
27th Jul 2012, 06:14 PM
:aro-u: Oval skews are a gimmick! I have one and can't see that it has any advantages over a flat skew. In fact a flat skew is a much better tool.

A Sorensen spindle tool is a good tool, if you are interested.

Mobyturns
29th Jul 2012, 09:01 PM
The gold standard is the tool that works for you. If only turners would spend time actually learning how to sharpen & how to use the tools they have more efficiently. Then there's all the variations in cutting edge "shape" & grinding angles - never ending combinations & permutations with timber hardness etc. But life would be boring if we didn't have choices and something to discuss over a beer at the end of the day.:U