Not exactly a Big Item,- But a Big Headache !!

[rogerjenkins]

Got a Big problem,- how to successfully make a SMALL Fiddly item without breakage !!

Item;- Wooden Brooches. Not sure where to put the problem,- so choose this forum !!
Order came from a Melbourne Calisthenics Club. I took one look and handed the item onto my inventive Woodturner mate at Murray Bridge, who is also having major problems with them. Dimension required is 50mm.long. They are a miniture version of Calisthenics, " Clubs," done in a Cross formation, with alternating Black & white painted bands along each club. The clip is simply a small brass Safety Pin araldited onto the back of each Wooden Brooch, ( the easy bit ). IF we can work out how to successfully make them, the Calisthenics Club is seeking to place an order of round 800 - 1,000 of the, " little critters. " They have already contacted numerous Chinese, etc., " specialized, Custom made product " manufacturers who never even bothered to get back to the club officials.
I am including a photo of the Wooden Brooch design required, along with an Actual Size Technical Drawing, so you will know what we are trying to successfully work out how to make. ( Mate over at Murray Bridge has a, " Success ratio," of one out of four attempts at present !! )
** Apparently the Calisthenics Club originally bought them from some old guy somewhere, but he's not around no more,- and took his production secret with him,-
just to be difficult !!! ( or should I say, " inconsiderate !! " )
Over to the Brains Department.
Roger

[Christos]

I have not turned enough wood to advise how this might be done consistency so I am really just taking a stab at it. Could this be done in two parts, the ball part and club part using mortise and tenon to join. :whatonearth:

[Osbojo]

If they were in metal, I guess the quickest way would be on an NC lathe. Wouldn't take too long once the toolpath is set up. Might be worth running it past the metalworking forum to see if it's possible to turn timber in an NC lathe.

[tea lady]

:think: Aren't they just like tiny finials? :hmm: Why the failures? Breaking the thin bit cos it has grain run out? What wood have you tried?

[_fly_]

Do they have to be wood?
Make one and make a mould to cast in resin, Good mould of the proper silicone. Not pen casting stuff.

[tea lady]

Do they have to be wood?
Make one and make a mould to cast in resin, Good mould of the proper silicone. Not pen casting stuff.Personally, I think its only worthwhile casting something if it isn't turnable or cuttable, as casting doesn't really save time otherwise. These are just little finials. You just have to get the knack right. :shrug:

[TTIT]

Go for it TL :U I reckon would love to help you fill the order :;

[Reaper]

Personally, I think its only worthwhile casting something if it isn't turnable or cuttable, as casting doesn't really save time otherwise. These are just little finials. You just have to get the knack right. :shrug:

im sure some older member would kill me for saying this but...

i would make a bunch of smaller tool (i have some made out of dentist tool) its really just a way for me to compensate for a lack of skill:B but it works... haven't found a way to make a small gouge yet...

[Reaper]

by older i mean more experienced

[tea lady]

i would make a bunch of smaller tool (i have some made out of dentist tool) its really just a way for me to compensate for a lack of skill:B but it works... haven't found a way to make a small gouge yet...Dare I say it.... but it ain't the size of the tool that matters but how you use it. ::p:D

I thought they were after tips on what to do, not someone to do it instead. Which I could if they wanted. :shrug:

[rogerjenkins]

My mate over at Murray Bridge, ( KBPensandmore ), is S-L-O-W-L-Y being, " driven up the wall, across the ceiling, and down the other side, " by these " critters. " His current success rate is approximately one-in-four, AND the Calisthenics Club in the Melbourne area only requires an order for about 800 - 1,000 of these Brooches, therefore IF you think you have a better idea on how to make them, - Please have a go, and show us, how it is done with success. Maybe you could end up with part of the supply contract, as the Club will gladly pay for the Brooches, and I am quite sure KBpensandmore won't complain, as I am certain your effort/s will save him being," slowly driven up the wall, across the ceiling, & down the other side. As the heading of this reply says, " C'on all you knowledgeable folk,- have a go if you want to !! "

'ave a good day, & happy wood-turning,
Roger

[smiife]

go for tea lady!!!!!!!!!
don't forget we want photos blow by blow:cool:
cheers smiife:2tsup:

[tea lady]

OK! :think:

[fozz]

well, come on come on, show us the progress, and pics as proof too, remember, no pics it didnt happen :)

[tea lady]

well, come on come on, show us the progress, and pics as proof too, remember, no pics it didnt happen :):p Patience grasshopper.

[rogerjenkins]

Just read your personal site. I noticed you like to try out designs, and NEW projects.
Well you've got one now. Well you have a challenge now,- and heaps of photos please to show everyone how good you are at over-coming challenges.
I am NOT a woodturner myself,- had a bit of a go at times, been shown the basics, etc., but prefer more enjoyable challenges as even though lathe work is fascinating, there is a bit of a limit on suitable subjects, as everything has to be some form of, " Round, " whether it be a dish; cup; bowl; finial; leg; foot; sphere, or whatever,- saw an Enormous Dish once,- turned on a Tractor rear axle, which had been jacked up, and a, slightly modified faceplate attached to the wheel hub. tractor engine running, in gear, and the turner set to work. End result looked respectable,- BUT who would use it, and for what purpose ?? ( plate for Giants ?? :U:U )

Anyway show us your handiwork, and, ( who knows ), you could end up with some Dollars in your pocket for your handiwork.

'ave a good day, and happy woodworking, - err, should read, " Woodturning "
Roger

[petersemple]

OK, an idea. I haven't ever done this myself, but have heard of it being done. One of my many hobbies is making timber ship models, and they often have nice turned balustrades holding up various railings. Of course they have to be identical. I personally cheat and buy ready made ones, but some people do make their own. They usually use a miniature lathe, but the principle would apply to a larger one - or even dowel chucked into a drill. They take a section of hacksaw blade, and carefully cut/grind the desired final shape into it. You then use that (carefully) as a scraper, to shape the timber, and each one precisely matches the shape in the blade. No idea how many individual pieces you would get from each blade before you had to make a new one.

Good luck

[Alby123]

Hi Roger, I've just been reading about your situation regarding the brooches. Where the clubs cross are they pinned together or is the front one recessed into the rear one.
Cheers Alby

[tea lady]

whipped these up. A bit small. and a bit rough. But did not really take long. Used a white paint pen and a black texta. "Real" clubs don't have paint on the knob end.

How I did it? Put a length of 10 mm dowel through the head stock held in pin jaws so that an inch or so pokes out. * Turn the knob, and a bit if the top. Stop lathe and pull about 2 inches of dowel out. Finish turning the shape. Don't go back to the knob cos you might break it across the thin part. Sand a bit just with 120#. Do white paint with lathe going. Turn lathe off and do black spiral while lathe slowing down. start lathe again and part off with skew. Hopefully enough dowel is sticking out to do the next ball so you don't have to wast time turning off and on again. Repeat from * till next cup of tea. turns up or you are bored. Or both. :cool::D The stripes would prolly get a lot better. :doh::U

Took 4 or 5 minutes each or so. Exactly how much are the calisthenics people expecting to pay? Prolly have to be $25 to $30 each what with mucking about putting them on pins as well. :think:

[Alby123]

Looks good so far, it would be interesting to see how much they are prepared to pay for them.

[rogerjenkins]

The Club which requires them is the Funds-raising section of, " Emmanuel Calisthenics College," Melbourne, Victoria. The have the small brass safety pins attached to the back of each pair of clubs ( backing must be reasonably flat so the safety pin will also sit flat when attached with Araldite, ( or a similar expoxy ). The completed Brooches are used for Funds-raising Activities so the Calisthenics Students can access the funds for entering into Calisthenics Competitions, etc., therefore I don't think for a minute that ANY parent would spend $25.or $30 on one little Fund-raising Brooch for any child,- unless they are, " filthy-rich," and how many parents are that way, money-wise these days ??
My mate over at Murray Bridge charges $10. Hr. ( KBpensandmore ), and gets heaps of interesting jobs, as he is on a Disability Pension after a road-smash which left him with a bad limp, & a walking-stick.
Myself,- I charge $20. hr for gereral Wood working jobs, Custom Signs, etc. therefore wanting $25. - $30 for ONE tiny pair of Brooches is a, " dreamworld, " attitude. That works out to $100.hr. plus. Who can afford that sorta money ? :o
1,000 brooches at Your estimated price works out to about $25,000 - $30,000
The offer is STILL available,- When I find someone who is reasonable, and sensible with their pricing, That person can have the job,- with guaranteed repeat orders too.( and other referal jobs too. )
As for the paintwork,- with me it has to be Top-of-the-Class, or not at all, as am noted for being a," fussy old so-&-so !! "

over to you,
Roger

[rogerjenkins]

From what I can find out, the Old Guy who used to make them,( before he disappeared with his," secret process, " somehow cut them in One Piece on a Scroll Saw, ( note the word, " somehow ",), then slowly filed, & sanded them to the finished curved shape, which omitted the join where the two clubs crossed. I attempted this idea myself, but it didn't work out, ( Clubs broke at the join ), also too fiddly for me to," play with," as got other more interesting things to design and make as well, and its just a bit difficult to work 24/7, especially when one is getting a bit older, so handed project onto KBpensandmore at Murray Bridge, who has tried without much success, so put article onto Wood-turners Forum in the hope that someone will either come up with the solution to the problem, or have a go themselves, and providing they do a decent job, and supply a fair & reasonable price, they can have the contract, complete with guaranteed repeat work too, along with a few referals from me as well.
I do know as a fact the Calisthenics Club will NOT pay $25. - $30. each Brooch as the brooches are used for Funds-raising and by the time the Club adds on their profit-margin, plus delivery cost/s that would make each Brooch much too expensive for the average parent or child to purchase.
Does that make good sense to you ?
Roger

[Sturdee]

So the club is not prepared to pay the reasonable cost of manufacturing this item and you're not prepared to say what they have offered for this contract.



Not helpful as based on TL experience making them and your insistence that the making and painting has to be Top-of-the-Class it would take a 40 hour week to make a 100 of these completed items.

When you add to this the cost of materials and the use of expensive equipment and the skill and experience of a turner I personally think that $ 30 each is cheap.

Surely you don't suggest that we work as cheap sweat labour.



My 2 cents worth.
Over to you.


Peter.

[Tim the Timber Turner]

I do know as a fact [B]the Calisthenics Club will NOT pay $25. - $30.

Just as a point of interest, what sort of price is the club willing to pay?

The drawing is not much help without dimensions.
It looks quiet big on my 24" monitor.

I would expect that anyone taking on an order of that size would want a substantial deposit.

Cheers

Tim:)

[RETIRED]

The Club which requires them is the Funds-raising section of, " Emmanuel Calisthenics College," Melbourne, Victoria. The have the small brass safety pins attached to the back of each pair of clubs ( backing must be reasonably flat so the safety pin will also sit flat when attached with Araldite, ( or a similar expoxy ). The completed Brooches are used for Funds-raising Activities so the Calisthenics Students can access the funds for entering into Calisthenics Competitions, etc., therefore I don't think for a minute that ANY parent would spend $25.or $30 on one little Fund-raising Brooch for any child,- unless they are, " filthy-rich," and how many parents are that way, money-wise these days ??
My mate over at Murray Bridge charges $10. Hr. ( KBpensandmore ), and gets heaps of interesting jobs, as he is on a Disability Pension after a road-smash which left him with a bad limp, & a walking-stick.
Myself,- I charge $20. hr for gereral Wood working jobs, Custom Signs, etc. therefore wanting $25. - $30 for ONE tiny pair of Brooches is a, " dreamworld, " attitude. That works out to $100.hr. plus. Who can afford that sorta money ? :o
1,000 brooches at Your estimated price works out to about $25,000 - $30,000
The offer is STILL available,- When I find someone who is reasonable, and sensible with their pricing, That person can have the job,- with guaranteed repeat orders too.( and other referal jobs too. )
As for the paintwork,- with me it has to be Top-of-the-Class, or not at all, as am noted for being a," fussy old so-&-so !! "

over to you,
RogerOur labour rates are $80 per hour. In my opinion you have been plain rude with the above paragraph.


From what I can find out, the Old Guy who used to make them,( before he disappeared with his," secret process, " somehow cut them in One Piece on a Scroll Saw, ( note the word, " somehow ",), then slowly filed, & sanded them to the finished curved shape, which omitted the join where the two clubs crossed. I attempted this idea myself, but it didn't work out, ( Clubs broke at the join ), also too fiddly for me to," play with," as got other more interesting things to design and make as well, and its just a bit difficult to work 24/7, especially when one is getting a bit older, so handed project onto KBpensandmore at Murray Bridge, who has tried without much success, so put article onto Wood-turners Forum in the hope that someone will either come up with the solution to the problem, or have a go themselves, and providing they do a decent job, and supply a fair & reasonable price, they can have the contract, complete with guaranteed repeat work too, along with a few referals from me as well.
I do know as a fact the Calisthenics Club will NOT pay $25. - $30. each Brooch as the brooches are used for Funds-raising and by the time the Club adds on their profit-margin, plus delivery cost/s that would make each Brooch much too expensive for the average parent or child to purchase.
Does that make good sense to you ?
RogerWhen you explain the process, they are NOT turned but cut out and then only half is rounded so that they sit flat and the pin attached.

I still couldn't and wouldn't do them for under $10 each.

Get them done on a CNC router would be the quickest way but you would still have to pay the set up costs and then paint them.

[Alby123]

Yes , I think you've got it pretty close to being spot on. Can't say I would be able to do it for less. It would still be interesting to know what they are prepared to pay for them.

[tea lady]

Skilled work done for minimum wage or less? :rolleyes: The hourly rate has to cover all overheads and material costs.Labour costs are around about 25% of the hourly rate. Jewelry pieces for $20 each are cheap. Tell them to get these instead.

https://www.charmshop.com.au/shop_image/product/02b8a3d7c9749366a5623214125a27f9.jpg

they are $22 but perhaps they will feel its worth it since they are silver not just cruddy ol' bits of painted wood glued to a pin from spotlight.

https://www.charmshop.com.au/?page=shop/flypage&product_id=774&category_id=&offset=0&ps_session=6b5076591c18038a4..

[Tim the Timber Turner]

and providing they do a decent job, and supply a fair & reasonable price, .

So let's try again Roger.

What do you consider a fair and reasonable price??

Cheers

Tim

[tea lady]

My small attempts were only R & D to see if it would work. I know the stripes aren't right. And the proportians aren't right.If you think I think they are perfect think again Roger.

Just some quick figures. I could turn 100 little clubs in an 8 hour day if I went hammer and tongs and someone else was making the tea. So do 2000 in 4 weeks. then glue them to their pins. :think: And then how long in the mental hospital? :doh:

[Sturdee]

.If you think I think they are perfect think again Roger.

And then how long in the mental hospital? :doh:

Too much thinking for me already I think. :U Maybe I'm ready to join you in the nuthouse. :U


Peter.

[BobL]

. . . .
I am NOT a woodturner myself,- had a bit of a go at times, been shown the basics, etc., but prefer more enjoyable challenges as even though lathe work is fascinating, there is a bit of a limit on suitable subjects, as everything has to be some form of, " Round, " whether it be a dish; cup; bowl; finial; leg; foot; sphere, or whatever,- , , , , ,

I am also not what one might call a turner yet I find the above some what derogatory. Then follows what sounds to me like a demand for someone to take on your job at significantly less than basic wages. I'm still wondering why the WWF turning fraternity has remained as calm as it has.

[Sturdee]

I'm still wondering why the WWF turning fraternity has remained as calm as it has.


Maybe that is because we can see the world in a different way as we can see in the round rather then in little squares that all the flat wood workers do.


Peter.

[rogerjenkins]

Firstly it's NOT what I think of the price,- It's WHAT the Calisthenics Club is prepared to pay, and being the typical Education system, ( whether Public, or Private ),- they all, " Cry Poverty," as I have personally discovered from my own experience, after tangling with a local Private Church School which is part of the world's weathiest Church.
Also I pay TOP Dollar for quality skilled workmanship, - up to about $9. each for specially designed & treaded 90 x 35mm. Wooden Wheels,- yet other Woodworkers who want to buy these same wooden wheels,- literally, " Freak-out," at the price !!

The Calisthenics Club is ONLY prepared to pay about a lousy $5. per completed, and nicely painted Brooch, including Freight. ( AND I don't get anything out of that either,- simply helping them out. )

** Meantime I have Scored a Pensioner who is looking for a bit of Pocket-money,- long-time Wood turner, and Wood Machinist, and says he's got a fair idea as to how these little," critters," are made as has done similar small miniatures over the years. Know the guy quite well. Never even thought to ask him If there are optional ways to make these brooches. I do know he's got some real expensive machinery, and does beautiful work too,- some very small and delicate, other items large and simple, but still beautiful to view, as he has an eye for grain & texture . He says he's not out to make a profit, otherwise the, " powers-that-be, " will dock his pension, ( fair enough ?? )
YES,- he's already given me a rough quote too, took one look at the picture and the tec-drawing, - Replied, ( I very nearly fell over with shock !! ),- " Yep,- simple enough,- Dollar-Fifty each, or thereabouts,- Do you want me to attach the safety pins too, and get the missus to paint 'em,- she's an artist you know ? Add that on,- 'bout Dollar- eighty, or ninety each. That's in good Aussie timber too. " Might even get the price below the Dollar for you,- see how I go. "
ME;- " I'm still reelin' from shock !! '
Maybe I SHOULD have asked this guy first instead of seeking HELP on this forum,- then I wouldn't have upset anyone.

**** YES,- I DO APOLOGIZE to all & sundry who were insulted by my comments as per pricing,- Happy now??

Roger

[tea lady]

Firstly it's NOT what I think of the price,- It's WHAT the Calisthenics Club is prepared to pay,

The Calisthenics Club is ONLY prepared to pay about a lousy $5. per completed, and nicely painted Brooch, including Freight. ( AND I don't get anything out of that either,- simply helping them out. )

** Meantime I have Scored a Pensioner who is looking for a bit of Pocket-money,- long-time Wood turner, and Wood Machinist, and says he's got a fair idea as to how these little," critters," are made as has done similar small miniatures over the years. Know the guy quite well. Never even thought to ask him If there are optional ways to make these brooches. I do know he's got some real expensive machinery, and does beautiful work too,- some very small and delicate, other items large and simple, but still beautiful to view, as he has an eye for grain & texture . He says he's not out to make a profit, otherwise the, " powers-that-be, " will dock his pension, ( fair enough ?? )
YES,- he's already given me a rough quote too, took one look at the picture and the tec-drawing, - Replied, ( I very nearly fell over with shock !! ),- " Yep,- simple enough,- Dollar-Fifty each, or thereabouts,- Do you want me to attach the safety pins too, and get the missus to paint 'em,- she's an artist you know ? Add that on,- 'bout Dollar- eighty, or ninety each. That's in good Aussie timber too. " Might even get the price below the Dollar for you,- see how I go. "
ME;- " I'm still reelin' from shock !! '
Maybe I SHOULD have asked this guy first instead of seeking HELP on this forum,- then I wouldn't have upset anyone.

**** YES,- I DO APOLOGIZE to all & sundry who were insulted by my comments as per pricing,- Happy now??

RogerGood on him if he can do it for that p[rice. Hope the caslistenics people appreciate his slaving away so they can fly about the world going to comps. .

[Sturdee]

** Meantime I have Scored a Pensioner who is looking for a bit of Pocket-money,-................................................ . He says he's not out to make a profit, otherwise the, " powers-that-be, " will dock his pension, ( fair enough ?? )

Roger


So you're happy with assisting the pensioner in ripping of the taxpayers, and undercutting tradesmen trying to earn a living, by working for peanuts rather then charging a proper price, declaring his income and save the taxpayers.

You may be happy but I'm not.


Peter.

[tea lady]

And the calisthenics people still think that sort of thing is worth that much money. :S

[elderly]

A few weeks ago Roger asked a question in the toy making forum and then turned quite nasty when the aswers he got were not to his liking which resulted in Yonnee closing the thread. He must have decided that it is now the woodturners turn to cop his insults.
Elderly.

[rogerjenkins]

Seems I cannot even ask a sensible question, or supply a decent reply without getting someone upset somewhere,- Why ??

Firstly I am sorry I ever put the thread on this site seeking advice,-
I am NOT out to intensionally upset anyone., whether they are professionals in their trade, or amateurs starting out .

As for the old guy ripping off the system,- He is NOT out to make a profit,- just looking for something useful to do while pottering away in his workshop,- What's wrong with that? Is there a new law somewhere that says one cannot potter away in their workshop, and do jobs for people at cost, or below cost ? If there is, then all the Mensheds groups / Wood groups/ clubs around the country are taking away jobs from the Professional Woodworkers, & Tradespeople.

If you think I encourage people to rip-off the system, during recent times I have reported to Centrelink various labourers, & others who openly admit they are collecting BOTH the Dole, and receiving Cash Money of round $40. - $50 hr , also have heard of people who work at the big mine sites earing $90. - $100 hr,- AND recieving a Centrelink payment as well. YES, I have reported them time, and time again,- even one guy on a Disability pension, who was also openly ripping-off the system,- but nothing ever happens to them, yet myself,- I have been abused, had my home broken into, stuff wrecked, solely because I TRY to do the right thing. Here I am well-known to our local police for ALL the RIGHT reasons, and am classed as a responsible citizen whom is trustworthy, and can be trusted.

The item I asked about on the Toy-makers forum,- ALL I sought was information asking IF anyone knew of Suitable Stickers, or Transfers from an Australian source that can be LEGALLY used on Toy Garages, other than importing them from Hobbies Ltd in England. Being a Toy-designer, and having my own range of Toy plans, I was simply interested in adding suitable Stickers, or Transfers to my two toy Service Station plans, and including them with the purchase price, not as an extra optional addition,- and some got very upset for some reason,- seemed to think I should give away free plans, - one person from this Woodwork forum even tracked me down, by telephone, and verbally abused the hell out of me because he wanted FREE toy plans. Can't remember the name he gave me, but do recall he said he is a member of the Woodwork forum.
I expect someone somewhere will take offence again, and as for my Toy plans,& wood craft designs, they are going off-shore to another country where people will gladly pay me for them.
Roger

[tea lady]

You sound like a lovely person. I don't think I would like to work with you anyway.

[Pagie]

He sounds like a nice person..:doh:

[tea lady]

He sounds like a nice person..:doh:Sarcasm doesn't come across very well written down does it. :doh:

[springwater]

Got a Big problem,- how to successfully make a SMALL Fiddly item without breakage !!

** Apparently the Calisthenics Club originally bought them from some old guy somewhere, but he's not around no more,- and took his production secret with him,-
just to be difficult !!! ( or should I say, " inconsiderate !! " )
Over to the Brains Department.
Roger
:doh::~ with a short arm jab

[Yonnee]

Seems I cannot even ask a sensible question, or supply a decent reply without getting someone upset somewhere,- Why ??
Your reaction to people's responses comes across as conceited and contemptuous.


Firstly I am sorry I ever put the thread on this site seeking advice,-
You are not alone there my friend... and yet, you still do.



Here I am well-known to our local police for ALL the RIGHT reasons, and am classed as a responsible citizen whom is trustworthy, and can be trusted.
I'd like to think most of us go through life without being well known to our local police... but maybe that's just me.


The item I asked about on the Toy-makers forum,- ALL I sought was information asking IF anyone knew of Suitable Stickers, or Transfers from an Australian source that can be LEGALLY used on Toy Garages,Roger
Toy Garage Stickers (http://www.woodworkforums.com/f174/question-toy-garage-stickers-where-obtain-154507/) This is the link, for anyone who'd like to read how Roger chastised those who gave suggestions.



One last observation. Roger is complaining about some of the prices quoted for these items...

...which says heaps about some people who use this forum, as I have noticed they like as much as practical for nothing.:roll:

[Sturdee]

So the club is willing to pay $ 5.00 per item and you are getting them made for less then $ 2.00, so who gets the $ 3.00 per item.

Is that your commission or do you reduce the cost to the club to your costs and assist them in their fundraising endeavour?


Peter.

[Sturdee]

then all the Mensheds groups / Wood groups/ clubs around the country are taking away jobs from the Professional Woodworkers, & Tradespeople.


Roger

Like many others in the community you have no idea about Men sheds if you think we do jobs in the community without charging an adequate and appropriate fee.

Our men shed is not there to do low paying jobs for the community, we do jobs for ourself or families of the men shed members or recognised charities like Doncare (our neighbour) without costs but for others we charge full fees as it's our way of raising funds.


Peter.

[watson]

Well Said Peter :2tsup:
Most jobs are asked of our Men's Shed because none of the Professional Woodworkers or Tradespeople want them, or could be bothered with them.
Roger should join the real world.

[chambezio]

I think we should all be bloody thankful that we don't live next to Roger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think you could do anything that he that he would agree with.
Thankfully my neighbours aren't like him

[BobL]

Firstly it's NOT what I think of the price,- It's WHAT the Calisthenics Club is prepared to pay, and being the typical Education system, ( whether Public, or Private ),- they all, " Cry Poverty," as I have personally discovered from my own experience, after tangling with a local Private Church School which is part of the world's weathiest Church.
Also I pay TOP Dollar for quality skilled workmanship, - up to about $9. each for specially designed & treaded 90 x 35mm. Wooden Wheels,- yet other Woodworkers who want to buy these same wooden wheels,- literally, " Freak-out," at the price !!

The Calisthenics Club is ONLY prepared to pay about a lousy $5. per completed, and nicely painted Brooch, including Freight. ( AND I don't get anything out of that either,- simply helping them out. )

** Meantime I have Scored a Pensioner who is looking for a bit of Pocket-money,- long-time Wood turner, and Wood Machinist, and says he's got a fair idea as to how these little," critters," are made as has done similar small miniatures over the years. Know the guy quite well. Never even thought to ask him If there are optional ways to make these brooches. I do know he's got some real expensive machinery, and does beautiful work too,- some very small and delicate, other items large and simple, but still beautiful to view, as he has an eye for grain & texture . He says he's not out to make a profit, otherwise the, " powers-that-be, " will dock his pension, ( fair enough ?? )
YES,- he's already given me a rough quote too, took one look at the picture and the tec-drawing, - Replied, ( I very nearly fell over with shock !! ),- " Yep,- simple enough,- Dollar-Fifty each, or thereabouts,- Do you want me to attach the safety pins too, and get the missus to paint 'em,- she's an artist you know ? Add that on,- 'bout Dollar- eighty, or ninety each. That's in good Aussie timber too. " Might even get the price below the Dollar for you,- see how I go. "
ME;- " I'm still reelin' from shock !! '
Maybe I SHOULD have asked this guy first instead of seeking HELP on this forum,- then I wouldn't have upset anyone.

**** YES,- I DO APOLOGIZE to all & sundry who were insulted by my comments as per pricing,- Happy now??

Roger

No one has said this yet I guess someone has to. Underlined, bold, capitalized text and begrudging apology just sends all the wrong signals. In netiquette terms "underlined, bold, and capitalized" is the equivalent of a 3 year old kids tantrum. Also, try being less emphatic in what you write and offer an unreserved instead of a begrudging apology and fellow members will be more likely to treat you with some respect.

[Enfield Guy]

Well said

[rogerjenkins]

Big mistake !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrong World !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gtwilkins]

No, you would get the same response in our world half a planet away we don't tolerate bell ends either!

Methinks you need to start your own forum where you can throw your toys out of the pram when ever you want.

[rogerjenkins]

Know of heaps nicer, friendlier, and heaps more helpful people than here.
Not on website, "club."

Real people in real world club. All ages. Some women, Some men

Went yesterday,- about 50 people there. Got invited back. I enjoyed their company

They asked me to teach them stuff,

Doing that for nuttin' because as you all know I am sooo 'orrible & mean to people

Asked organizer who insisted on paying me something for my time,
to put their money to good cause like RFDS. ( Royal Flying Doctor Service )

Two hours every Sat afternoon,- my time, & portable tools donated.

Won't come back here,- only rich & famous welcome here,-

Me only help poor average everday people who appreciate learning,
and want to learn new skills.

September, Members are coming to spend weekend here in my workshop.
make stuff for themselves. My time free. Only pay me for materials used.

This month am making & donating about a Thousand Dollars of items for Prizes for our Local Special Events Committee Money-raising Functions for our small local communities . Every year, always give them suitable items for prizes.

Always about a similar value.

Rich people who charge about $80. - $100 hr. cannot afford to donate prizes,-
only mean, 'orrible nasty person like me can afford do that.

Back in May, donated an assortment of handcrafted funny signs to an Adelaide Retirement Village who were having problems finding suitable items for a Funds-raising event. Have been asked If I would like to donate similar items for the 2013 Funds- raising event, to which I replied, " Yes. "

All the above people most likely ask me because, as you all know, I am soo 'orrible, soo nasty to people, that I don't get on with anyone anywhere.

Over and out,
roger

[Groggy]

Roger, you may mean well and have good intentions, yet you consistently come across as 'getting in peoples faces' when they try to help you.

The responses you have got here surprise me because these people are some of the most tolerant and generous people I know. I can say that with some confidence because I have met a number of them and observed the behaviour of the others over thousands of posts and many years; it takes a lot to draw the responses you have.

Good luck with your endeavours elsewhere.