any help as I've just started my own Handyman business

[mrjones]

Hi all and that's for looking in,

I started my own Handyman business about 4 months ago in Melbourne, and I keep finding out new things. I am looking for some advice about estimates. As I am new to the game, I don't always know how long things will take me. Should I estimate and write that the price could increase? Or should I give the maximum cost and specify this and that it may be less?

Also I prefer to be paid daily, but I recently had a client who dictated her terms to me and told me that she would pay me upon completion of the job...which was 3 days. I politely advised this was not how I work...and she gave me a lot of hassle that other tradies dont do this etc etc...So I was wondering...what do all you lot do?

thanks for reading

Mrjones

[_fly_]

Then its not a good quote, if it says ,ay be higher, may be lower.
If you quote the higher price you will get payed that. I you want to give them a discount after as you did it quick thats OK too.

And yes a customer will pay for supplies at the start of the job, but your labour gets paid at the end of the job, when its done properly.

[Avery]

I certainly would not pay a handyman by the day, unless it was a very big job and there were specific parts of the job to be completed one at a time. Those points would have to be written into the quote. Something like a landscaping job that was going to take 3 days to do would be paid on completion, NOT by the day.

[Handyjack]

A quote is a quote and should not be altered unless there is some special reason. This is part of being a handyman and quoting sometimes you get it right, most of the time I get it wrong, I underestimate the time it will take to do a job. Research the cost of materials before you quote and allow for extra. But if the client is happy with the quote you will get the job.
Always expect to get paid after the job is completed.

[Sturdee]

I would only ever pay the quoted price which would be a firm quote.

I would also pay only on completion of the job if the work is done properly, if not done properly I would pay nothing until it's fixed.


Peter.

[mrjones]

thanks for the feed back. Just a note that what I meant about getting paid daily...was not for one job that takes a few days, but for lots of little jobs that span over a few days. Therefore, by the end of each day, all started jobs have been completed. I have heard of experiences where people dont pay, and this has led me to be cautious and to get paid daily for the work that has been completed. Does that change things?

Regarding estimates...I have been told a few things...one is to over estimate and then this covers all angles and the price can be reduced if completed early. Another is to estimate basic cost and to note in writing that the price could increase up to 20% depending on the time it takes/unforseen complications etc.

Any further advice?

[Astrodog]

As a consumer, I would not accept a quote that stated "it might increase by 20%".....

If you want payment for "the little jobs" as you do them, you'll need to produce separate quotes for them I would say....

[mic-d]

Agree with what's been said. But if you quote and get lucky and do it quicker, never offer a discount. A quote is a quote and you should be as likely to happily offer a discount as the client would be to happily offer to pay more if things go pear shaped for you, which is to say, not at all. When you've done it for a while and if you have some happy return clients, then you might suggest to them the option of doing an hourly rate on some types of work. When I was doing this work full time, I had many clients who trusted me to just do the job and charge them later on an hourly rate. Of course, it takes a while to develop that relationship. And always, always have the client cover materials up front, it's as wise for you to be cautious of them as they of you. And if they won't agree to that, don't do the job.

[Geekgirl]

Welcome Mr Jones,

You are asking the $42 question (the answer to everything) ;)

It is very hard to quote, it depends on what you are doing etc. In my line of work, security / cctv etc. small jobs eg domestic is payment on completion and showing client how to use the equipment. Larger jobs can have progress payments, eg when you run all the cabling you get so much, when you install all the equipment another amount and when it is all up and running the balance.

If you are working through another company, they can (and in construction usually do) pay end of month plus 30 days (this means it can be up to 61 days to be paid) If a customer pays me quicker, then they get a cheap rate, one long term customer (who gives me a lot of work) pays within 15 minutes of receiving my invoice (I use my iPad to invoice and as I am about to drive off from site I invoice).

As to how to quote, I usually work out the equipment price and double it. This usually works out ok (nice bit of mark up (~20%) and labour to install it). If I am doing a job with surface conduit / cable tray / just pulling cables, I know that it takes x time to install a metre of cable / conduit / cable tray, plus fixings works out to so many $$ per install.

One thing to be careful of is when hiring things, some hire companies do not include some costs eg delivery and pickup, fuel, accessories (I hire boom lifts a lot) they may say it is so many $ for delivery and hire per day, but they charge big $ for fuel in the unit and hire levies that you do not realise till they bill you ;)

Hope this helps, if you need any more info, just ask :)

Kat.

[Grandad-5]

Mr Jones, I think others have answered your specific question quite well.
I have little to add except a couple of observations that I made over the years or advice I have received from others.

1. A quote is a quote. It doesn't change up or down. An estimate might but clients want quotes, not estimates.

2. In 30+ yrs of working for the public I have only once not been paid. And that was my fault. I screwed up. Tradies who complain about not getting paid are "usually" ones who work as subbies to builders.

3. I did a job for a fellow very early on who turned out to be an HIA inspector. At the end of the job he told me my work and practises were excellant but advised that all quotes should be in writing with as much detail as possible. 99% of the complaints he investigated were the result of not doing that. "You said"..."No, I didn't" etc

4. If you're winning more than 1 in 3 quotes...you're too cheap. If you're not, you're too expensive.

and lastly...
5. There are supposedly 40 hours in a week. If you can be paid for 60% of those hours you're doing very well.

Cheers
Jim

[chambezio]

Mr Jones
I have read all the preceding information and agree with what has been discussed. I have a little bit to add from my own experience of being a carpenter/cabinetmaker all my life. I have been self employed a couple of times and have done a bit of "weekend work" from time to time.
Be very careful if you get approached by a Real Estate company to do your sort of work on their rental properties. Yes there would probably be a fair amount but....They will want you straight away....They will usually expect a quote (and they will be looking for the cheapest) They will expect you to jump through hoops and they will probably take a long time to pay you!
They also seem to be a "catty" mob, rubbishing this one and that one etc. I would try to steer away from them as much as possible.
I have included a post written by a member of the Forum some time ago. I down loaded it for my own interest but I didn't include the author, sorry.
It was in the Small Timber Milling section and it deals with, very well I think, all the bits to consider when making up your hourly rate. I know a lot of it will not be applicable to your set up but you may find it helpful/food for thought any way.
Its not an easy way to make a quid and you have to be focused on you. By that I mean that you are dictating the terms of your work not your client. I was always too soft and it ended up costing me on some jobs.
All the best to you

[rwbuild]

There is some excellent advice in the posts, I will add 2 more items

1 Not only is it important to state in your quote what you are doing, it is equally important to state what you are NOT doing

eg: all waste to be removed at clients expense. All original door handles to be re used unless instructed otherwise.

2 Also and a clause in your quote that states the hourly rate for extra work and that all variations to the quote must be in writing and with an agreed cost signed by both parties.

Good luck!

[seriph1]

Some really great advice there - stating precisely what you are going to do - and what you are NOT going to do, is among the best advice.

IF you have a certain way of doing things and have a good reason to do so, stick to it - lots of people will want you to modify your processes 'just for them' - if it is outside your brief to the point where you feel it will be 'trouble' ... walk away - smiling all the time.

But, flexibility of your own systems, with a view to building BETTER ones, is valid too ... so at times, if someone explains that their 'method' of retaining tradespeople differs from yours, I think it's fair to consider their needs/style and see if both parties can find a way that everyone wins.

I guess I am saying that establishing and maintaining trust is paramount (without being a Patsy of course) ... and when everyone does the right thing, (or what's expected) everyone wins.

Also, never miss a chance to positively set yourself apart. - In other words, "Be a pioneer ... go the extra mile, it is a vast unpopulated land full of opportunities"

Sincerely, best of luck with your business - all power to those who still make and fix things!

[Geekgirl]

Mr Jones

I have included a post written by a member of the Forum some time ago. I down loaded it for my own interest but I didn't include the author, sorry.
It was in the Small Timber Milling section and it deals with, very well I think, all the bits to consider when making up your hourly rate.
All the best to you

WOW, someone really sat down and worked it out. I try to make customers understand, but they just complain and think they can get it done cheaper by someone else. :(

I used to charge a flat rate of $65 per hour to do jobs, (plus travel time) if I was at home I would charge 3 hours (1 hour each way to get to job and the first hour labour on site). I had client compiling that I was too expensive. That I was charging not much less than they were billing the job on for. Then they wanted to make me wait up to 61 days to pay me when I have paid on the day for fuel, vehicle repairs, rego insurance etc etc.

If I had one word of advice it would be work for someone else, you actually make more money ;) when I was waged I was on about the same amount as I turned over in the last financial year :( now take out materials, costs of vehicle, tools, insurances...... For most people it is not profitable to work for them selves as most customers do not want to pay what you really need to cover all the costs. Some will pay a higher amount if you explain to them how you come up with your figure (like the attachment has)

Kat.