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JB
16th August 2012, 02:44 PM
Simple question, sorry if it's been covered before, searched but failed to find answer. What angle should spindle gouges (with fingernail profile) be ground at?

orraloon
16th August 2012, 04:09 PM
I use about 40* on all the spindle gouges including the roughing gouge. Bowl gouges are about 50*. Not sure if this is the correct angles but when I first started I just followed the bevel on the new tools. I find this to work ok.
Regards
John

RETIRED
16th August 2012, 04:40 PM
I use 45° on nearly all my tools.

JB
16th August 2012, 09:37 PM
Thanks. I thought it might be nearer 60. 45 keeps it simple. Now if I can just sharpen them evenly at that....!

Paul39
17th August 2012, 06:08 AM
Thanks. I thought it might be nearer 60. 45 keeps it simple. Now if I can just sharpen them evenly at that....!

A JIG!! A JIG!! Shop made or bought.

A few ideas:

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&biw=939&bih=553&sclient=psy-ab&q=woodturning+sharpening+jig&oq=woodturning+grinding+jig&gs_l=hp.1.2.0i30j0i8i30j0i22l2.9073.19651.0.29403.24.18.0.6.6.0.262.1875.14j3j1.18.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.xFfvbcUgrSE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=3c711fb061ac048

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=939&bih=553&q=woodturning+sharpening+jig&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=iUQtULr0B4if6wGZx4HQDA

BlackbuttWA
17th August 2012, 09:57 AM
This is the template that Eli Avisera uses for sharpening his chisels.
Several of our club members (mandurahwoodturners.com) have started using it also, with Eli's permission.
I was fortunate enough to attend several workshops by Eli earlier this year in Western Australia. What a great guy. He is very keen to pass on his experiences & knowledge.
I know everyone that attended was very impressed.

HTH

Col
219600

tea lady
17th August 2012, 10:49 AM
HTH

Col
219600:shrug: Seems a little prescriptive. I have seen all types of gouges at all types of angles. Just depends what the job at hand is. But 45 deg seems to work best for most things.

JB
17th August 2012, 12:12 PM
A JIG!! A JIG!!

Is there one that guides your hand as you push, raise and twist the chisel to get a fingernail profile?

tea lady
17th August 2012, 12:39 PM
Is there one that guides your hand as you push, raise and twist the chisel to get a fingernail profile?What you actually using the finger nail profile for? Some jobs it just makes more difficult. Hardly any bevel support.

Also, I think we get the finger nail grind just using the Tru grind jig. :think:

Paul39
17th August 2012, 01:34 PM
Is there one that guides your hand as you push, raise and twist the chisel to get a fingernail profile?

I have this:

Basic Wolverine Sharpening System - Woodturners Catalog - Woodworking tools and supplies specializing in woodturning. (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Sharpening___Oneway_System___Basic_Wolverine_Sharpening_System___oneway_basic?Args=)

And an earlier version of this:

Vari-Grind Jig - Woodturners Catalog - Woodworking tools and supplies specializing in woodturning. (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Sharpening___Oneway_System___Vari_Grind_Jig___oneway_vari_grind?Args=)

I do mostly bowls so use the varigrind on my bowl gouges to get a swept back grind. I have the platform set at about 80 degrees for my scrapers. I sharpen them upside down with a light swipe to get a nice burr which does not last long.

The grinder is at the tail end of the lathe and stays running while I am turning so tools are kept at the peak of sharpness.

I mark my bowl gouges and insert into the vari grind the same each time I resharpen and have the V arm in the same position. This gives me a consistent grind.

There are several raging discussions about sharpening on this forum. Do a search, lots of opinions.

I use an 8 inch 1725 rpm grinder with an aluminum oxide 120 grit white wheel on each side. I do have a Tormek which I bought for a good price used.

I think the Tormek jigs with the separate bar on a 1725 rpm grinder with an 8 inch diamond wheel would be the ultimate sharpening system.

See: Tormek Bench Grinder Mounting Set - Woodturners Catalog - Woodworking tools and supplies specializing in woodturning. (http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Sharpening___Tormek_System___Tormek_Bench_Grinder_Mounting_Set___tormek_bench?Args=)

This jig is the greatest thing since sliced bread:

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/woodturners/Images/pdfs/tormek.pdf

If you don't have piles of $$$ available for your turning addiction, a wooden or metal V arm would get you started. You can get a pretty good fingernail grind on a spindle gouge by sticking the butt of the handle into a V and rotating the tip on the grinding wheel.

Unless you are quite experienced I would not use a long slim fingernail grind. If you do not have the tool right down on the rest with minimal overhang, and start with rubbing the bevel and easing down to cut, it can get quite exciting as the sharp tip takes out a good size chunk of wood.

A little blunter until you have some experience might save your nerves.

After using a Crown bowl gouge with a mild fingernail grind I got a used Thompson with considerably more sweep back. I reset the vari grind, sharpened, honed and went sailing into the inside of a roughed out bowel.

It worked GREAT, slicing out great wads of curlies. I started another cut up near the rim and BANG, bowl flew across the shed. Just a little too much presentation and it took a great big bite and twisted the gouge so that it took even more.

michael_m
17th August 2012, 03:19 PM
Is there one that guides your hand as you push, raise and twist the chisel to get a fingernail profile?

A cheaper alternative can be found here: King Heiple's Shop-Built Jig (http://www.finewoodworking.com/pages/w00115.asp).

It only took me about an hour to make from scrap lying about and it works a treat.

(As to whether it works better than a commercial setup, I can't comment - unless someone would like to gift me a wolverine or tormek :D )

Mobyturns
17th August 2012, 08:45 PM
Is there one that guides your hand as you push, raise and twist the chisel to get a fingernail profile?

Not sure if the HeliGrind is still on the market but it is good for "lady finger nail" profiles. Also fits the Tormek system.:)

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~kjeeves/heligrind/heligrind.pdf has contact details at the back. I have no idea if its still current.

JB
17th August 2012, 10:07 PM
Thanks one and all for many helpful suggestions. I'll follow up on the jigs etc.

JB
17th August 2012, 10:11 PM
What you actually using the finger nail profile for?

A range of cove shapes. Are you saying I could achieve these with my gouges ground square, like my roughing chisel? This is definitely my favourite turning tool to use - and sharpen.

tea lady
17th August 2012, 10:29 PM
A range of cove shapes. Are you saying I could achieve these with my gouges ground square, like my roughing chisel? This is definitely my favourite turning tool to use - and sharpen.No not square ground chisels. But lady finger grinds are the other extreme end. Something kind of middling that looks a bit like a normal finger nail. :shrug: Lady fingers are more for reaching to the bottom of a v cut to clean it up cos they are can be even narrower than a skew. Or hollowing out an end grain box. I guess coves can be done with a lady finger grind but its like walking on stilettos. A precarious proposition. Especially when you are starting the cut. :shrug: Can be done of course. But its just more relaxing to use something a little less extreme. :cool:

chuck1
17th August 2012, 10:59 PM
I use the lady finger grind and the angle varies from 25 to 35degrees for spindle gouges and 40 degrees on bowl gouge.

chuck1
17th August 2012, 11:09 PM
The last 2 australian woodworker has article by john Ewart! About grinding and using detail gouge. I even use my half inch detail gouge on some bowls

Mobyturns
18th August 2012, 08:32 AM
But its just more relaxing to use something a little less extreme. :cool:

The more relaxing part is something most turners grossly underestimate. A fine lady finger nail profile when commencing entry cuts can be as or more unforgiving than a narrow skew because it is difficult to initially support the bevel. Narrower grind angles take a fraction longer to actually acheive the support, are more sensitive to small errors in angular placement & require higher concentration levels which then equates to higher levels of mental fatigue.

I use Hamlet & P&N SRG's & mostly Hamlet 12mm, 18mm & 25mm radisued edge skews with "blunt" angles, 9mm spindle gouges with lady fingernail grinds; 9mm & 12mm detail gouges with fingernail grinds to almost lady finger dimensions plus 12mm & 18mm Sorby Spindle masters with the original grind which are very much like lady fingernail grinds. These work for me on smaller spindle work, each has a place & all must be ultra sharp. The lady fingernail grinds aren't much fun on large spindle work (170dia 850mm table legs)! :oo:

My favourites for bulk production of unsanded :q spinning tops from ordinary 42mm sq "Porta Pine" are rough down with 25mm SRG & true with 25mm skew, bulk removal of waste on curves & most detail with 9mm SG. If the finish is not satisfactory off the SG then tidy up with combinations of spindle master, 12 & 25mm skews and for tidying straight end grain cuts the spindle master is unparalled. Spindle master is used sparingly as it is prone to high wear. Point is the fatigue factor is greatly reduced by using the most forgiving tools first & only using the "higher concentration" tools as needed. :U

tea lady
18th August 2012, 10:40 AM
Maybe we need some picks of peoples "lady finger grinds" They might be all as different as all the "ladies" in the world.:rolleyes::U

Paul39
19th August 2012, 12:48 PM
Maybe we need some picks of peoples "lady finger grinds" They might be all as different as all the "ladies" in the world.:rolleyes::U

I would expect so.

Spindle gouge sharpening angle in Google brings:

https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=939&bih=553&q=spindle+gouge+sharpening+angle&oq=spindle+gouge+&gs_l=img.1.1.0i24l6.1866.6363.0.15508.14.14.0.0.0.0.90.1061.14.14.0...0.0...1ac.YWN4-Pg9EDs

Bowl Gouge Grinds:

https://www.google.com/search?num=10&hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=939&bih=553&q=bowl+gouge+grinds&oq=bowl+gouge+grinds&gs_l=img.12..0i24.1671.7278.0.12934.17.10.0.7.7.0.84.765.10.10.0...0.0...1ac.-Hk_2Ib0qyI

Lots of overlap in the photos. The Tormek sharpening book has a page of sharpening angles and drawings.

A personal view of bowl gouges (http://www.peterchild.co.uk/info1/sflute.htm)

AAW discussion of bowl grinds:

Photos and discussion of bowl gouge grinds - AAW Forums (http://www.aawforum.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=9357)

I saw a used Henry Taylor spindle gouge today with Rude Osolnik stamped on it. It was $50. It was a rectangular section with a shallow flute and a really swept back grind. I can't find a photo on line.

2/3 down the page below is a shallow Osolnik gouge:

Henry Taylor Turning Tools (http://www.1066tools.co.uk/tools/Henry-Taylor-Turning-Tools.html)

tea lady
19th August 2012, 01:26 PM
I saw a used Henry Taylor spindle gouge today with Rude Osolnik stamped on it. It was $50. It was a rectangular section with a shallow flute and a really swept back grind. I can't find a photo on line.

2/3 down the page below is a shallow Osolnik gouge:

Henry Taylor Turning Tools (http://www.1066tools.co.uk/tools/Henry-Taylor-Turning-Tools.html):pi: Can't find what you describe, but it sounds like a "long and strong" detail gouge. :think: :CWhich is a bit hard to google for. (note to self don't google long and strong.:oo: )

RETIRED
19th August 2012, 05:04 PM
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