How do you make a Shower Hob?

[John99]

Hi everyone I need to make a shower hob in a new ensuite.
The floor is particle board, walls are fibre cement sheeting. The questions is what should I use to make the hob, bricks, hebel or what ? and do you place them in a mortar mix to hold them to the floor or should I use bondcrete or something similair to fix it to the floor?

Do I use mortar on the floor of the shower to form it up so that it drains to the shower waste?

Will I waterproof the floor and walls before making the shower base or do I make the hob first and waterproof it and the walls corners etc,
and then when that is finished do I then use mortar to make it drain to the shower waste and tile it after?

Any help or advice will be greatly received with many thanks John

[PlanePig]

G'day John, 1st I thought hobs were out. You can use bricks for hob & then waterproof everything - primer+ fibreglass matting & then 2 good coats , do both walls of shower up to 1.8mts , the rest of the walls only has to be about 100 mm up as after that the water is running out the door . Next you lay the bed & make it slope to the waste. You put the waste grate in last ,it should just float, not actually attached, theory being if it does leak the water will run under the grate. Ihope this helps you. I'm sure somebody will know the rest of the answers.
Good luck.
Planepig

[Jacksin]

Or alternatively, purchase a fibre glass or acrylic hob and install as per manufacturers specifications.
Jack ;)

[John99]

Thanks planepig for the tip on putting the waste in last , thats how I thought I might do it but I didnt really know, but how do you fix the bricks for the hob down ? Do you know or does anyone else know? just in mortar or somehow else ? thanks

[soundman]

Hebel bricks are great because you can cut them to size easily with hand tools.
As others have said put down you hob then you membrane.
A mate of mine is a tiler & he hates, I mean realy hates fibreglass membranes.
motar doesn't stick well to fibreglass & It can have lumps & bumps in places you may find a pain.
The flexible resin membranes such as ormoid, bond better to mortar & grout and give a more conforming finish and stay flexible.
cheers

[John99]

Yes I was going to use one of the flexiable rubber type membranes and only the tape that goes in the corners, with the bond breaker

But there are heaps of differant brands of membranes is there one that is better then the rest or easier to use then the others, does anyone have any experiance using one of them? Or should I just use the one from the local hardware store?

[Bowdo]

Hi John,

I had a go at a hob on the weekend after the owner builder didn't install a water proof membrane, combined with no fall in the bathroom, hence water leaking out and rotting floorboards in nearby bedroom. I used a row of bricks mortared to the floor and rendered - that seemed to work OK using a standard 1:1:6 cement, lime, sand mix. I just used standard housebricks and an angle grinder - didn't think of Hebel. I ripped up the tiles and most of the existing cracked and wet concrete bed, painted bondcrete onto the particle board to prevent soaking up mositure from concrete mix, laid hob, next will go the shower recess floor, shaped to fall to waste. I was going for a paint on membrane as it seemed simpler than the fabric types. Then re-tile the lot.

[jimc]

Just finished my bathroom reno.

I was going to do the self formed hob but thought better when I heard they are almost impossible to waterproof entirely long term.

Just a note on waterproofing, if you are wishing to tile directly on top of the membrane, make sure you DO NOT use a bituman based membrane. I had a hell of a time to get an adhesive that will stick big heavy tiles to Duratite.
I ended up getting the Bondall chemists speak with the Davco chemists and then advise me of what to use. - DAVCO SE7 + DAVALASTIC...sticks to anything!
Hope this helps

[John99]

Thanks for the tips guys still planing what I'm going to do, but did have a thought about a hobless shower but have no experience or any idea with them. Has someone installed one of these or had some experience with them? Are they more or less likely to leak or have problems later on? Would they be easy to install? are there any tips on installing them? or should I go with the hob ?

Any help would be appreciated, thanks

[mic-d]

I've done 3 hobless showers. If you go that method you will be up for mudding (motaring) up the whole bathroom floor though - is that something you want to do? The way I tackle this is to install 40mm aluminium angles at the shower boundary (where the screen will sit - it helps if this cooincides with a grout line!) then w/p the shower area (300 in from each corner and up from floor and 1800 high and all fasteners. Some tilers say you should make a mortar preslope in the shower before w/p so that any water getting through the motar bed and tiles is directed to the waste weep holes. You don't have to w/p the entire wall. I never w/p myself, I always get a professional in - they are verrry cheap for the peace of mind (and you get a certificate). If you don't have a floor waste in the room, you should also w/p the entire floor. At the door to the room install another 40mm angle. I've found that if the w/p is fibreglass, the mortar bed will go a bit drummy, so it is best to scratch coat it with tile adesive before mudding up.
I make my deck mud from 1 cement and 3 sharp sand eg washed pit and mix dry ingredients. Then I add small amount of water or better still latex additive diluted correctly until the mud maintains its ball shape when squeezed but does not leave your hand wet. You will think it is much too dry but its not. You should be able to walk on it immediately after its laid, although I would not. Shovel some mud into the shower and build a screed around the edge at one level and about 50-100mm wide. You need a wooden float to whack and compress it down hard as you go. Once that's done protect any weepholes in your shower drain from blockage with pebbles etc. Then shovel in more mud and whack it down hard. It's easier to just build up the floor roughly and then "cut" it back to the right shape so that it slopes evenly down to the drain and is low enough that the tiles will finish at the shower drain height. Take your time, the mud doesn't go off too fast. You can also use some chicken wire etc to reinforce it if you like. The latex strengthens the motar considerably. Don't make the recess too "dishy" or the tiles will be difficult to lay, try to make 4 intersecting planes. The tiles will conform very well to this if they are layed on the diagonal. Its much trickier to get a nice tileable surface if the drain is far from centred and in this case, smaller mosaics may be easier. You can mud up the rest of the floor in the same manner. I usually use a texta to make a level line around the wall as a guide for the perimeter screeds. I finish my floor level with the top of the door angle so it is a convenient screed. Beats trying to lay off the mortar so the tiles finish at the top of the angle! To finish the tile at the door, I use an aluminium transition edge ( a wedge shape) and finish the front of the angle under the transition edge with narrow tiles.
I fill the isolation joint in the tiles above the angle with sikaflex or similar- now you see why it is convenient to have them coincide with a grout line - otherwise you must cut the tile - you *cannot* tile across thos angles or the shower will leak. The shower screen will cover this joint. Um did I miss anything :)
Cheers
Michael

[John99]

Thanks mic-d for such a informative answer, I have a bit to go away with and think about now on what i`ll actually do.

Once I have waterproofed the area I need to have the council inspect the waterproofing so I guess I`ll get some tips from him if theres any thing wrong with what I do.