Mag Transfer Block

[RayG]

I've got several hundred chisels and plane blades to grind, and while I could set up a sine table, there is still the problem of registering and holding the parts accurately.

I decided to make a 25 degree mag transfer block, bascically it's just a laminated brass and steel block, and made to suit the pitch of the magnetic poles on the surface grinder chuck.

It's 300 mm long, ( so I can do 4 or 5 plane blades at a time. )

I started by roughly bandsawing out all the parts and drilling to take 3/8" threaded brass rod. ( and yes, before you ask it took forever :) )

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2283.jpg

All the steel parts were surface ground ( makes them look pretty :) ) but mainly, I needed to get the pole spacing right and anyway it provides a nice clean surface for soldering
All parts are then spread with flux and solder paste, I would have like to use a hard solder, but this is the stuff I had on hand.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2281.JPG

Assemble with the threaded rod
http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2284.JPG

Into the furnace and bake at 325 C for a few hours... ( I did a few test pieces first :) )

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2287.JPG

After cooling overnight, it's onto the sine table at 25 degrees for the initial clean up on the mill

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2292.JPG

And after a bit of a clean up, I can start measuring to make sure it's square and parallel before it goes onto the surface grinder for finish grinding.
http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2293.JPG

So, that's as far as I've got today, more pictures to come when I get it finished.

Still pondering how to measure the thing?

Regards
Ray

[Ueee]

Nice work Ray:2tsup:
I would be interested to know more about the solder you used.

[Scott]

Watching with interest :)

[Anorak Bob]

The usual Ray Gardiner impressiveness.:2tsup:

BT

[Steamwhisperer]

I love the way you make a difficult and at the least expensive problem easy. Watching with great interest Ray.

Phil

[RayG]

Thanks SJT, BT, I'll be finished the cleanup and surface grinding later today.

Hi Phil, you are right about the expensive bit, ( not sure about the difficult bit :) ) you can get the smaller fine pitch mag transfer blocks at reasonable prices, but as soon as the size goes up the prices get ridiculous.

Hi Ewan, the solder paste is the stuff used for soldering SMT components ( I have a small infrared reflow oven for doing prototype boards ) you can get lead free, but the stuff I've got is the normal tin/lead. It has a flux of some sort mixed in with the paste. Japan Flux Grease Gel Repair Solder Paste MK-50L 500g | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Japan-Flux-Grease-Gel-Repair-Solder-Paste-MK-50L-500g-/180856502045?pt=AU_B_I_Electrical_Test_Equipment&hash=item2a1be3371d)

What I'd really like, is to find some silver solder paste, to try a bit of proper furnace brazing...

Regards
Ray

[RayG]

After mucking about for a day working out the setup, I finished the grinding on the mag transfer block.

Setup for 25 degrees..
http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2296.JPG

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2300.JPG


Setting up for grinding the short side at 65 degrees ( finally got to use the extensions on the planer gauge :) )
http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2303.JPG

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2301.JPG

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2304.JPG
Half way through grinding the short side, if you look closely you can see how far out the mill was..


http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2306.JPG

Yes, I know digital angle gages aren't all that accurate, but I did measure the side lengths and it's 25 degrees plus or minus 0.02 degrees

Now that I know I can make custom mag transfer blocks as required, I'm thinking I'll make some more.. :)

Regards
Ray

[Anorak Bob]

Looking good Ray.

I'm glad you found a use for the shaper gauge. They are handy things to have even if you don't own a shaper.

I can overcome the envy I have of your ownership of the mag sine base by knowing it's simply too big for any of my machines. :U

BT

[Abratool]

Ray
It all looks good.
I like the idea of the solder.
The ones I made were held together, by rivetted brass pieces 5/16" dia. passing through reamed holes.
The solder would make a secure block.
Bruce

[rogerbaker]

What I'd really like, is to find some silver solder paste, to try a bit of proper furnace brazing...

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray
I havent seen paste for silver solder but CIG has a liquid flux for it. Have a talk to your local CIG agent.

Roger

[Michael G]

Ray, A factory I worked at did lots of parts for the car industry. We called it furnace brazing. Perhaps ring a few solder suppliers and ask about furnace brazing pastes. I haven't worked there for 12+ years so I can't think of anyone I could phone to get a name.

Michael

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi Ray,
You could try this mob

www.brazingandsolderingautomation.com.au/


Phil

ADDED By Moderator

Above link is reported to contain Malware, so I have deactivated the link.

[DJ’s Timber]

Hi Ray,
You could try this mob

www.brazingandsolderingautomation.com.au/


Phil

Hey Phil, both my browser and antivirus software tells me that site has malware and not to proceed with opening it??

[Ueee]

Same here DJ's

Looks really good Ray, i didn't realize it was just electronic solder paste, nice thinking!

[Scott]

Hey Phil, both my browser and antivirus software tells me that site has malware and not to proceed with opening it??

Yup, I get the same as well:

236041

[RayG]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the link, (in spite of the virus warning) I managed to get a link to their supplier, (wget :) ) looks like these guys are the ones for furnace brazing supplies

Brazing | Soldering | Metal Joining | Brazing Machine | Fusion Inc. (http://www.fusion-inc.com/index.html)

I think this is the sort of stuff I'd like to get hold of.. Paste Solder Filler Metals | Fusion Inc. | Worldwide Distributors (http://www.fusion-inc.com/filler3.htm)

Regards
Ray

[Steamwhisperer]

Sorry about that guys. I have recently given up the PC and bought a Mac. It doesn't seem to be affected...yet.
No warning or anything.

Phil

[RayG]

Sorry about that guys. I have recently given up the PC and bought a Mac. It doesn't seem to be affected...yet.
No warning or anything.

Phil

Hi Phil,

No danger, there is an encoded iframe tag at the bottom of that page, which is a technique commonly used to install malware, I've looked at the code and it calls a cgi script on another web site, which is where you'd expect some dodgy exe to be lurking, but there's nothing there, just a blank html document, so I don't know? maybe it just hasn't been activated yet..

Either way, the malware would be very likely written for windows, a dodgy exe file isn;t going to run on the mac, won't run on my linux box either :)

I've sent an email to the people who run the web site as a courtesty anyway,, ( plus asking for info on silver solder paste as well of course :) )

Regards
Ray

[Steamwhisperer]

Hi Phil,

No danger, there is an encoded iframe tag at the bottom of that page, which is a technique commonly used to install malware, I've looked at the code and it calls a cgi script on another web site, which is where you'd expect some dodgy exe to be lurking, but there's nothing there, just a blank html document, so I don't know? maybe it just hasn't been activated yet..

Either way, the malware would be very likely written for windows, a dodgy exe file isn;t going to run on the mac, won't run on my linux box either :)

I've sent an email to the people who run the web site as a courtesty anyway,, ( plus asking for info on silver solder paste as well of course :) )

Regards
Ray

Hi Ray,
Thanks for sending them an email.
I'm a bit worried about posting links now. It seems everyone copped a warning.
There must be a way I can check before I post.

Phil

[Greg Q]

Yes, there is. Encourage everybody to abandon Microsoft and all of its evil works. Purely Mac for four years now. Time spent on domestic IT troubleshooting: 0.00 minutes.:)

[.RC.]

Yea but i dislike walled gardens, even the most comfortable jail is still a jail :).... I want to go to a something every now and then should I want to.

[PDW]

Yea but i dislike walled gardens, even the most comfortable jail is still a jail :).... I want to go to a something every now and then should I want to.

OS X is *not* a walled garden, unlike IOS which I don't use. I run a hell of a lot of open source code on my Macbook. It's far more open than Windows.

Want to run a Windoze only program? Parallels and Windoze in a sandbox. Virus immunity; if the VM gets corrupted you delete it and install from a clean backup.

Not worth flogging this dead horse. Those who don't want to learn can't be taught. Using Windoze as an o/s is like using an Atlas lathe when you could use a Monarch 10EE.

PDW - 385 days continuous uptime on my laptop including numerous trips interstate and all over the place. Only reason for shutdown/reboot - added more RAM.

[twopintsplease]

Hi Ray

What steel did you use for the steel part ?

Cheers
Fred

[RayG]

Hi Ray

What steel did you use for the steel part ?

Cheers
Fred

Hi Fred,

Just normal mild steel, hot rolled I think. I had to laminate 3mm thick pieces and 10mm thick pieces together to get the thickness I needed to match the pitch of the poles on the existing electromagnetic chuck.


Regards
Ray

[shedhappens]

Very nice Ray, have you done any testing ?

Magnets are strange creature's, I have a copy of a (thick as a brick) magnet book somewhere that I used
once upon a time to try to understand how to concentrate a flux path, so I am very interested to see how
well your transfer block works. :2tsup:

[RayG]

Very nice Ray, have you done any testing ?

Magnets are strange creature's, I have a copy of a (thick as a brick) magnet book somewhere that I used
once upon a time to try to understand how to concentrate a flux path, so I am very interested to see how
well your transfer block works. :2tsup:

Seems to be working fine, the parts cover three poles, and there's no way I can dislodge them without turning the mag chuck off.
I'll take a few pictures of the setup later today.

Regards
Ray

PS I've got some stuff by Eclipse on mag chucks, but I'd be interested to find out what that book is?

[shedhappens]

"PS I've got some stuff by Eclipse on mag chucks, but I'd be interested to find out what that book is?"

G/day Ray, Permanent Magnet Design and Application Handbook, Lester R. Moskowitz Second Edition.

I loaned the book from the Alexandra library, it was an inter-library loan and it took a couple of months to land in my mitts, I think the book cost about $500 back then so I photocopied the main body of the book (290 pages) for 10c/page at the primary school.

You are quite welcome to loan what I have of the book but I didn't copy the last 600 odd pages, see the photo of the index, if you can also loan it from the library it would be better for you, if you can't I can post my limited copy up to you.

I found this link, tiz only $200 now.:C

john

Permanent Magnet Design and Application Handbook: Lester R. Moskowitz: 9780894647680: Amazon.com: Books




(http://www.amazon.com/Permanent-Magnet-Design-Application-Handbook/dp/0894647687%3FSubscriptionId%3DAKIAINRLNXBEU5S46AZQ%26tag%3Dcla0d-20%26linkCode%3Dxm2%26camp%3D2025%26creative%3D165953%26creativeASIN%3D0894647687)

[RayG]

Hi John,

Thanks for that link, looks like a good book. It's now on my list of must get books.

This is the way I'm setting it up. I've still got to make up some alignment bits and pieces, but the holding force with the
electromagnetic chuck is incredible. I can't budge the blade at all.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2307.JPG

In the above picture the blade isn't discoloured, it's a reflection.

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2308.JPG

Here's some nifty tricks with magnetic chucks..
A way of rotating the magnetic field by 90 degrees.. from the eclipse manual

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2309.JPG

A way of concentrating the flux using flux dams

http://www.backsaw.net/pics/mag/DSCN2310.JPG

Regards
Ray

[shedhappens]

Fabulous, no doubt in the back of your mind you were thinking it might not work properly after all the time you had to put into it. Is there much residual magnetism in the transfer block ? If so this would be an asset when setting up a number of blades to hold them in place.

The horse is off and running now, what new and wonderful eclipse attachments are going to evolve out of this ?

john

[.RC.]

Interesting read here Making magnetic transfer blocks (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/making-magnetic-transfer-blocks-253882/)

[RayG]

Thanks RC, Interesting to read about different approaches.. I should visit PM more often.. :) except I don't much care for the attitude displayed by some over there...

Hi John,

You are correct about residual magnetism, the electromagnet has a demag setting that you use to remove the residual magnetism when you finish grinding, but if you just flick the magnet on/off like Josh is doing in this video it keeps everything in place while setting up.

So here is the reason for making the mag transfer block.

Part 1 Setting up.

Setup for Grinding Plane Blades - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70jL45dRBc8&feature=youtu.be)


And part 2 with the grinder running.

Grinding the bevel - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTA0gHbBRrs&feature=youtu.be)


Regards
Ray